9089 réponses à ce sujet

[PsyrenY]

dreman9999 wrote...
1. And yet we were able to reverse it any way. And it would be easy to do so if they didn't think the heritics were a hostal theat. They would only do so with Legions report.
2.No, it not. Remeber, it's reapers and reaper tech. Most time when people find reaper tech they don't even know what it is. This is how Saren got indoctrinated and well the turians in the comic , ME:EVOLUTION.
3.Anf the reapers indoctrinate people via electic pulse in the limbic system. No difference at all ecept for the fact it's easier to ue electric pulses on the brain.

1. What are you talking about? We didn't reverse it - we stole their virus before it could be deployed. Had we arrived after they used it it would have been too late.
2. Reaper tech is rare, it's not just lying around. The majority of the galaxy has never even seen it. But everyone uses comm buoys.
3. Indoctrination requires proximity to Reapers or Reaper tech. A glitch can happen anywhere and at any time, for any reason.

Modifié par Optimystic_X, 25 mai 2012 - 05:28 .

[The Night Mammoth]

dreman9999 wrote...
1.Which is my point.

Then you could tell people instead of meandering around for four hours. I agree though.

2. Let me help you understand...Let's say you in your room sleeping when suddenly someone attacks you. You don;t know them or why the attack you. And to get them off uou you attack them.....
Who is at fault inthe conflict?

Different circumstances. The VI mistook the training simulations the soldiers were running for agression against it. The soldiers were just doing what they do: training. Their intent was not to harm the VI, at that point they just thought it was a machine that ran the stations. No one is the blame, the VI killed them out of fear, it was a mistake.

3.Synthetics are not naturally hostile. 
 

I know that, I agree. 

[Taboo]

Optimystic_X wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

My opinion alone gives credence to how I view the art.

And the same goes to you.

This is my point.

No, the same does not go to me. I have more on my side than my own opinion:

- The tone of Synthesis (hopeful and positive, rather than bleak and negative.)
- The epilogue ("Commander Shepard has become a legend and ended the Reaper threat.")
- Bioware statements (e.g.: "No one starves to death")
- The inherent hope of having extremely resourceful synthetics (Geth and EDI) still alive.

All you have is pointless pessimism.

And all you have is boundless optimism, hence your username.

I am a pessimist. That much is true.

Presented in such a manner, I view the art as such.

I too believe most of what you list above, but I do not view it as positive.

[dreman9999]

Optimystic_X wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
1. And yet we were able to reverse it any way. And it would be easy to do so if they didn't think the heritics were a hostal theat. They would only do so with Legions report.
2.No, it not. Remeber, it's reapers and reaper tech. Most time when people find reaper tech they don't even know what it is. This is how Saren got indoctrinated and well the turians in the comic , ME:EVOLUTION.
3.Anf the reapers indoctrinate people via electic pulse in the limbic system. No difference at all ecept for the fact it's easier to ue electric pulses on the brain.

1. What are you talking about? We didn't reverse it - we stole their virus before it could be deployed. Had we arrived after they used it it would have been too late.
2. Reaper tech is rare, it's not just lying around. The majority of the galaxy has never even seen it. But everyone uses comm buoys.
3. Indoctrination requires proximity to Reapers or Reaper tech. A glitch can happen anywhere and at any time, for any reason.

1.Did you even play the game with an import where you didn't help legion or gave hime to cerberus.
2.Tell that to the people who are fighting hordes of husk in the games war...
3.But thegeth are fast enough to find and correct any glitch since they personally connect to the tech they use to protect them. The geth have a way to protect themselve to indoctrination. Even more so whne they are upgraded. Organic don't have any protection at all.

[Vigilant111]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Optimystic_X wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

My opinion alone gives credence to how I view the art.

And the same goes to you.

This is my point.

No, the same does not go to me. I have more on my side than my own opinion:

- The tone of Synthesis (hopeful and positive, rather than bleak and negative.)
- The epilogue ("Commander Shepard has become a legend and ended the Reaper threat.")
- Bioware statements (e.g.: "No one starves to death")
- The inherent hope of having extremely resourceful synthetics (Geth and EDI) still alive.

All you have is pointless pessimism.

And all you have is boundless optimism, hence your username.

I am a pessimist. That much is true.

Presented in such a manner, I view the art as such.

I too believe most of what you list above, but I do not view it as positive.

Now just because u choose destroy does not make u a pessimist;)

[Vigilant111]

so far there is no grounds to believe that the reapers are benevolent, if they really cared they should help keep peace rather than bring war, their powers warrant such an ability to do so

[dreman9999]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
1.Which is my point.

Then you could tell people instead of meandering around for four hours. I agree though.

2. Let me help you understand...Let's say you in your room sleeping when suddenly someone attacks you. You don;t know them or why the attack you. And to get them off uou you attack them.....
Who is at fault inthe conflict?

Different circumstances. The VI mistook the training simulations the soldiers were running for agression against it. The soldiers were just doing what they do: training. Their intent was not to harm the VI, at that point they just thought it was a machine that ran the stations. No one is the blame, the VI killed them out of fear, it was a mistake.

3.Synthetics are not naturally hostile. 
 

I know that, I agree. 

1.How many ways do one have the say that organic cause synthetic to be hostile because orgaincs attack synthetic  for you to undersatnd what they mean? it can't mean anything else.
2. No it's the same. The AI did not understand what was going on and lashed out to protect herself. EDI , who is that AI , tells you that she only attack due to confusion and fear. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=TcQklK6VXG8#t=178s Making it exactly like mey example.

3. Which is still my point.

[dreman9999]

Vigilant111 wrote...

so far there is no grounds to believe that the reapers are benevolent, if they really cared they should help keep peace rather than bring war, their powers warrant such an ability to do so

The problem is finding organics and getting them to listen. If organic could find peacebecause someone told them how, we would of found peace millians ago.

[Vigilant111]

dreman9999 wrote...

Vigilant111 wrote...

so far there is no grounds to believe that the reapers are benevolent, if they really cared they should help keep peace rather than bring war, their powers warrant such an ability to do so

The problem is finding organics and getting them to listen. If organic could find peacebecause someone told them how, we would of found peace millians ago.

the very nature of the organics is a double edged sword: hard to control, also hard to convince

[Uncle Jo]

Optimystic_X wrote...

Uncle Jo wrote...

It's wonderful to see that so much people distrust the Geth and yet blindly believe that what the brat (who is in their opinion an AI) and his toys said is true.

Not worried about the current Geth. Worried about the Geth post-singularity.

If they're going to get there, I'm not going to stop them - I just want organics to have a chance of reaching it too.

Fair enough. But I refer always to what Legion said (I know it's just an assumption)
"We never wanted to harm organics"
For that what I know and  have seen during ME2 and ME3 there is no reason to not trust them or at least more than a brat who pops out of nowhere and whose job the last billion of years was preemptive wars (based also on an assumption) genocide, mass-murder, indoctrination, torture... All of this for the sake of preventing organics being wiped out by synthetics...

Modifié par Uncle Jo, 25 mai 2012 - 06:30 .

[Vigilant111]

dreman9999 wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
1.Which is my point.

Then you could tell people instead of meandering around for four hours. I agree though.

2. Let me help you understand...Let's say you in your room sleeping when suddenly someone attacks you. You don;t know them or why the attack you. And to get them off uou you attack them.....
Who is at fault inthe conflict?

Different circumstances. The VI mistook the training simulations the soldiers were running for agression against it. The soldiers were just doing what they do: training. Their intent was not to harm the VI, at that point they just thought it was a machine that ran the stations. No one is the blame, the VI killed them out of fear, it was a mistake.

3.Synthetics are not naturally hostile. 
 

I know that, I agree. 

1.How many ways do one have the say that organic cause synthetic to be hostile because orgaincs attack synthetic  for you to undersatnd what they mean? it can't mean anything else.
2. No it's the same. The AI did not understand what was going on and lashed out to protect herself. EDI , who is that AI , tells you that she only attack due to confusion and fear. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=TcQklK6VXG8#t=178s Making it exactly like mey example.

3. Which is still my point.

"Synthetics are not natually hostile" statement is redundent since I don't believe that anything is hostile in the beginning, its a reaction that is prompt

[Vox Draco]

Uncle Jo wrote...

Optimystic_X wrote...

Uncle Jo wrote...

It's wonderful to see that so much people distrust the Geth and yet blindly believe that what the brat (who is in their opinion an AI) and his toys said is true.

Not worried about the current Geth. Worried about the Geth post-singularity.

If they're going to get there, I'm not going to stop them - I just want organics to have a chance of reaching it too.

Fair enough. But I refer always to what Legion said (I know it's just an assumption)
"We never wanted to harm organics"
For I what I know and what I've seen during ME2 and ME3 there is no reason to not trust them or at least more than a brat who pops out of nowhere and whose job the last billion of years was preemptive wars (based also on an assumption) genocide, mass-murder, indoctrination, torture... All of this for the sake of preventing organics being wiped out by synthetics...

Yes. It always baffles me how easy all your and Shepard's past experiences are thrown out of the window by some people, in favor of the catalysts opinion. well, but I am sure there are plenty of wonderful arguments for this, as usual...

[Vigilant111]

organics lie for sinister reasons, sometimes good reasons, I am interested as to for what reasons that synthetics would deceive, did they inherit evil seeds from organics

[dreman9999]

Vigilant111 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
1.Which is my point.

Then you could tell people instead of meandering around for four hours. I agree though.

2. Let me help you understand...Let's say you in your room sleeping when suddenly someone attacks you. You don;t know them or why the attack you. And to get them off uou you attack them.....
Who is at fault inthe conflict?

Different circumstances. The VI mistook the training simulations the soldiers were running for agression against it. The soldiers were just doing what they do: training. Their intent was not to harm the VI, at that point they just thought it was a machine that ran the stations. No one is the blame, the VI killed them out of fear, it was a mistake.

3.Synthetics are not naturally hostile. 
 

I know that, I agree. 

1.How many ways do one have the say that organic cause synthetic to be hostile because orgaincs attack synthetic  for you to undersatnd what they mean? it can't mean anything else.
2. No it's the same. The AI did not understand what was going on and lashed out to protect herself. EDI , who is that AI , tells you that she only attack due to confusion and fear. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=TcQklK6VXG8#t=178s Making it exactly like mey example.

3. Which is still my point.

"Synthetics are not natually hostile" statement is redundent since I don't believe that anything is hostile in the beginning, its a reaction that is prompt

Let me repharse it. They don't naturaly seek conflict.

[Vigilant111]

dreman9999 wrote...
Let me repharse it. They don't naturaly seek conflict.

that makes much more sense, they do not actively compete and dominate
quite defensive rather than aggressive in nature

did reapers used to be like this?

[PsyrenY]

Taboo-XX wrote...

And all you have is boundless optimism, hence your username.

That, and the things I listed, yes.

Taboo-XX wrote... 
Presented in such a manner, I view the art as such.

I too believe most of what you list above, but I do not view it as positive.

 

Do "composition, tone, and mood" mean anything to you? Do you look at "Birth of Venus" and think "my god, that neural chip in her brain must make it impossible for her to express the true horror of her situation!" :innocent:

[Taboo]

Optimystic_X wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

And all you have is boundless optimism, hence your username.

That, and the things I listed, yes.

Taboo-XX wrote... 
Presented in such a manner, I view the art as such.

I too believe most of what you list above, but I do not view it as positive.

 

Do "composition, tone, and mood" mean anything to you? Do you look at "Birth of Venus" and think "my god, that neural chip in her brain must make it impossible for her to express the true horror of her situation!" :innocent:

She was just birthed from blood from Uranus' severed scrotum.

Tone and mood? Of course they mean something, but only if you accept the image as real, which it is not.

The tonal shift of scenes is so absurd I can't take it seriously.

That scene on the jungle planet fills you with hope?

What about everyone else?

Do they matter?

Modifié par Taboo-XX, 25 mai 2012 - 06:34 .

[The Night Mammoth]

dreman9999 wrote...
1.How many ways do one have the say that organic cause synthetic to be hostile because orgaincs attack synthetic  for you to undersatnd what they mean? it can't mean anything else.

You've never stated that. Reaching this point has required a fair amount of trial an error, labouring over irrelevant points that I attribute to us not sharing a common native language than any incapability on either side. 

2. No it's the same. The AI did not understand what was going on and lashed out to protect herself. EDI , who is that AI , tells you that she only attack due to confusion and fear. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=TcQklK6VXG8#t=178s Making it exactly like mey example.

Except it's not, because your example had someone attacking with intent. The soldiers were not attacking the VI, they were going about their business, but it mistook this for agression against it, so reacted. It would be more apt if the sleeping person attacked someone just standing in the room out of confusion, where this person was just say, doing light excercise which was mistaken for an act of aggression. 

[Taboo]

Your optimism blinds you to the reality of the situation.

One image alone, does not make happiness.

Tone and mood are what YOU have discarded, not I.

I look at the painting of Venus and remember her origins. That's important too.

Modifié par Taboo-XX, 25 mai 2012 - 06:39 .

[dreman9999]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
1.How many ways do one have the say that organic cause synthetic to be hostile because orgaincs attack synthetic  for you to undersatnd what they mean? it can't mean anything else.

You've never stated that. Reaching this point has required a fair amount of trial an error, labouring over irrelevant points that I attribute to us not sharing a common native language than any incapability on either side. 

2. No it's the same. The AI did not understand what was going on and lashed out to protect herself. EDI , who is that AI , tells you that she only attack due to confusion and fear. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=TcQklK6VXG8#t=178s Making it exactly like mey example.

Except it's not, because your example had someone attacking with intent. The soldiers were not attacking the VI, they were going about their business, but it mistook this for agression against it, so reacted. It would be more apt if the sleeping person attacked someone just standing in the room out of confusion, where this person was just say, doing light excercise which was mistaken for an act of aggression. 

1.You clear did not read or understood a thing I wrote.
2. Intent means nothing. All that matter is that they attecked.

[BP20125810]

Silasqtx wrote...

Thread title "A different ascension"

Reaper goal = Ascension

Synthesis = Ascension

Synthesis = Reaper Goal

You lose the game.

Don't be ignorant about it.  The OP clearly states that the reaper goal is ascension through means of murder and liquification.  Synthesis is ascension through means of the catalyst's newfound power.

I hate when IT fanatics invade a good thread and don't even read the OP.

[PsyrenY]

Uncle Jo wrote...
Fair enough. But I refer always to what Legion said (I know it's just an assumption) 
"We never wanted to harm organics"
For that what I know and  have seen during ME2 and ME3 there is no reason to not trust them or at least more than a brat who pops out of nowhere and whose job the last billion of years was preemptive wars (based also on an assumption) genocide, mass-murder, indoctrination, torture... All of this for the sake of preventing organics being wiped out by synthetics...

Again, that is a sentiment of the current Geth. Not only does it rest on the flip of a bit now, but it may easily change post-singularity, when the Geth are so powerful that they will be as impossible to stop as cavemen throwing sharpened sticks at a B-52 Bomber.

Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely.

But the Geth have done nothing wrong. They merely seek to improve themselves. They are not deserving of death. So if I have the means to make it so that we can keep pace with them, and no one has to die, I will take that option.

[Uncle Jo]

Vox Draco wrote...


Yes. It always baffles me how easy all your and Shepard's past experiences are thrown out of the window by some people, in favor of the catalysts opinion. well, but I am sure there are plenty of wonderful arguments for this, as usual...

Humans forget easily...
You know what? If the DLC were to confirm that the pile of c**p the glowing troll spout was true, I'll choose control then.
I'll offer those abominations the ride of their very long life. First stop by the Omega 4 Relay and from there on, one way trip to the blackhole.

[The Night Mammoth]

dreman9999 wrote...
1.You clear did not read or understood a thing I wrote.

Whatever, if you're just going to be an agressive tw*t about it I'll move on. 

2. Intent means nothing. All that matter is that they attecked.

Intent means everything concerning your point. Without knowing the motive, the cause, the intentions of both parties, you can't evaluate the situation. 

Hostile organics did not cause that VI to react, it acted out because it mitakenly believed the soldeirs to be acting aggresively against it. 

They weren't, they were just running some simulations in the training facilities, going about their normal business. They had no idea this VI had changed, or that it was scared. 

[PsyrenY]

Taboo-XX wrote...

She was just birthed from blood from Uranus' severed scrotum.

Tone and mood? Of course they mean something, but only if you accept the image as real, which it is not.

The tonal shift of scenes is so absurd I can't take it seriously.

That scene on the jungle planet fills you with hope?

What about everyone else?

Do they matter?

1. Birth everywhere is messy, big deal. What matters is what comes after it.
2. What do you mean, "accept the image as real?" ME is a fictional story, none of it is "real."
3. "Everyone else?" So you seriously believe Bioware is just showing us the only two people in the galaxy that liked the change, that everyone else hated it, and they're now busily finding cutting ropes and finding trees to hang themselves with?