9087 réponses à ce sujet

[dreman9999]

MisterJB wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
3. No it's  the catalyst that matters. How can you tell me how something you don't know how it works works?

And why not? You are constantly doing the same.

I'm sorry you say that the beings that design the crucible in away that forces the catalyst to give vague awnsers and forces the starchild tlet an organic  trigger the crucible by..

1.Electricuting them selves.
2. Jumping into a firy lazer.
3.Shoot and pipe and walking in it's explaotion.

Added, I never said what the crucible does...Just what the star child is allowed to use it for in teh other 2 options and I don't een trust what I see after Shepard is cut down...

[Veneke]

dreman9999 wrote...
Machine with a history of great deceptions.
Add you missed the fact that no of the options solve the problem the star child persent but he guarantees the cyclle will end in Synthesis, he guarantee's it will come back with destroy but says not not about it during his explination of control. Note that reapers control organics with implants and you "compining organics and synthetics" in synthesis.....

 
Do tell what great deceptions you're trying to refer to are.

Destroy doesn't solve the problem he presents - he says that openly. Synthesis apparently resolves it entirely. How this is achieved isn't explicit. Control is left open ended because it depends on whether your Shep wants to use the Reapers to continue the cycle or to take them elsewhere without killing them.
 
What Synthesis does or does not do is open to debate, hence this thread.

dreman9999 wrote...

1. I'm not.It not the player experiance alown that shows the reaper can't be trusted...Theirs ME:relivation and retribution and the codex. We are shown the reapers are not to be trusted. And the catalyst, the more I
think about it, is not a deux.....It solves nothing for him....2 choice give up the reapers and the 3r we don't even know we really beat them.
2 .Becausethey clear did not know it can be done...That what being at the pinical of evolution of technology does to you.....You think you are at the  very best and never try for better. It been stated the being in a
tenhnological singualrity deturse technologiacl advances. It's because  the concept of need that is needed to advance or want to advance is lost. The reapers don't have any reason to try to advance because they
don't have any needs any more.

1. You're missing the point - the point is that the player can distance himself from the decisions and outlooks Shep has to get a bigger view of things. We can see things like 'The Devs were running out of time here' and 'The end is near' and 'The narrative is falling apart'. The only point about the Player/Shep divide that comes into play here is that we, as players, have a greater reason to trust that the Catalyst isn't lying because if he was the entire ending would be called into question. Given that there's no hint of anything of the sort we should be able to safely assume he's telling the truth.

2. Sorry, I'm not seeing how this is relevant to the 'Why not just have Synthesis forced on the galaxy by the Reapers?' argument.

Modifié par Veneke, 21 mai 2012 - 06:55 .

[dreman9999]

Optimystic_X wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

1. The oneyou combine organic and synthetic life...
2.. You don't need surgury to be implanted....The way reapers implant organic is clearly not sergical.

1. Synthesis? I saw no one being controlled there.

2. So you agree that Synthesis is totally different than the implanting we have previously seen in the series then?

1. I saw reapers via starchildusing the crucible to implant everyone and no reason give how it solve the problem preseted by the star child.

2. No, It's the same.  In ME, Reapers don't even surgiacly put implants into bodys...Synthesisi is just a faster way for them to do it.

[MisterJB]

dreman9999 wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
3. No it's  the catalyst that matters. How can you tell me how something you don't know how it works works?

And why not? You are constantly doing the same.

I'm sorry you say that the beings that design the crucible in away that forces the catalyst to give vague awnsers and forces the starchild tlet an organic  trigger the crucible by..

1.Electricuting them selves.
2. Jumping into a firy lazer.
3.Shoot and pipe and walking in it's explaotion.

Added, I never said what the crucible does...Just what the star child is allowed to use it for in teh other 2 options and I don't een trust what I see after Shepard is cut down...

And there you go again with this "The StarChild uses the Crucible despite the fact it was created by organics, it is triggered by organics and there are organics crewing it."
So, basically, you said he couldn't tell you how the Crucible works because he doesn't know. Well, neither do you but you keep saying the StarChild can use it despite all evidence in contrary.

Modifié par MisterJB, 21 mai 2012 - 06:56 .

[dreman9999]

@Veneke


 1. Did you miss the part where he never says how synthesis solves everything? 
2.You missing the point that even if the player look over all the info over this, it still conclued to not trust the reapers. And nothing is shown too trust the reapers..

3.You ask why they didn't do this before...That's your awnser...Your question had nothing to do with synthesis forced on th galexy.

Modifié par dreman9999, 21 mai 2012 - 07:00 .

[Heeden]

dreman9999 wrote...
 I don't een trust what I see after Shepard is cut down...

Why not go the whole hog? Nothing is real after the attack on earth, Shepard's mind-state exists in a Reaper AI whilst they mess him about for no good reason. Why else would the female toilet on the Normandy always be locked? (Farscape reference)

[dreman9999]

MisterJB wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
3. No it's  the catalyst that matters. How can you tell me how something you don't know how it works works?

And why not? You are constantly doing the same.

I'm sorry you say that the beings that design the crucible in away that forces the catalyst to give vague awnsers and forces the starchild tlet an organic  trigger the crucible by..

1.Electricuting them selves.
2. Jumping into a firy lazer.
3.Shoot and pipe and walking in it's explaotion.

Added, I never said what the crucible does...Just what the star child is allowed to use it for in teh other 2 options and I don't een trust what I see after Shepard is cut down...

And there you go again with this "The StarChild uses the Crucible despite the fact it was created by organic, it is triggered by organics and there are organics crewing it."
So, basically, you said he couldn't tell you how the Crucible works because he doesn't know. Well, neither do you but you keep saying the StarChild can use it despite all evidence in contrary.

So what if it made by organics. He get's it in the end and makes the offer for control and synthesis...He's the one that knows how it works...He's the one that can only  apply it.

[dreman9999]

Heeden wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
 I don't een trust what I see after Shepard is cut down...

Why not go the whole hog? Nothing is real after the attack on earth, Shepard's mind-state exists in a Reaper AI whilst they mess him about for no good reason. Why else would the female toilet on the Normandy always be locked? (Farscape reference)

Because I have other perspective to say Shepard did leave earth...ME:HOMEWORLDS.

[PsyrenY]

dreman9999 wrote...

1. I saw reapers via starchildusing the crucible to implant everyone and no reason give how it solve the problem preseted by the star child.

2. No, It's the same. *snip*

1. Where do you see Reapers using the Crucible? They are hit by the beam that you trigger.

2. No, it's not the same. And we can go back and forth like this until EC is released and you are finally proven wrong.

[Veneke]

dreman9999 wrote...
1.You missing the point that even if the player look over all the info over this, it still conclued to not trust the reapers. And nothing is shown too trust the reapers..
2.You ask why they didn't do this before...That's your awnser...Your question had nothing to do with synthesis forced on th galexy.

 
1. I think you need to reread what I wrote. I'm reasonably positive that you don't understand it correctly. I'm talking about how the player is aware of narrative flaws that would arise if the Catalyst couldn't be trusted at the very end in a way that Shep cannot.

 2. Oh, sorry. I get where you're coming from now. They didn't perform Synthesis before because they believed themselves to be the pinnacle of evolution? That doesn't match with your argument that Synthesis is a means by which the Reapers can control all organics though.

[dreman9999]

Optimystic_X wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

1. I saw reapers via starchildusing the crucible to implant everyone and no reason give how it solve the problem preseted by the star child.

2. No, It's the same. *snip*

1. Where do you see Reapers using the Crucible? They are hit by the beam that you trigger.

2. No, it's not the same. And we can go back and forth like this until EC is released and you are finally proven wrong.

1. The star child is the on that offers synthesis...He's the only one there who know how it works...He's the only one who can apply it.
2.It's the same...It implantation because technology is put in organics.

[dreman9999]

Veneke wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
1.You missing the point that even if the player look over all the info over this, it still conclued to not trust the reapers. And nothing is shown too trust the reapers..
2.You ask why they didn't do this before...That's your awnser...Your question had nothing to do with synthesis forced on th galexy.

 
1. I think you need to reread what I wrote. I'm reasonably positive that you don't understand it correctly. I'm talking about how the player is aware of narrative flaws that would arise if the Catalyst couldn't be trusted at the very end in a way that Shep cannot.

 2. Oh, sorry. I get where you're coming from now. They didn't perform Synthesis before because they believed themselves to be the pinnacle of evolution? That doesn't match with your argument that Synthesis is a means by which the Reapers can control all organics though.

1. But you never pointed what the narrative flaws are that wouldd  get the player to trust the star child....If you look them up...You'll see there are none.
2.It does when you note when the starchild say other options open up because of the crucible.

[MisterJB]

dreman9999 wrote...
So what if it made by organics. He get's it in the end and makes the offer for control and synthesis...He's the one that knows how it works...He's the one that can only  apply it.

The Catalyst is not applying a damn thing. The Crucible, through the Citadel, is.

[dreman9999]

MisterJB wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
So what if it made by organics. He get's it in the end and makes the offer for control and synthesis...He's the one that knows how it works...He's the one that can only  apply it.

The Catalyst is not applying a damn thing. The Crucible, through the Citadel, is.

And the catalyst is using the crucible to do it....Did you not get this point I made.
Then your going to say it made by organic which you think some how it mean reapers can't use it....Whcih makes no sence.
To save you the troble, remeber the star child is the catayst, a part of the crucible...

Modifié par dreman9999, 21 mai 2012 - 07:12 .

[Jadebaby]

wow, good luck OP.

Personally I find it to be sickening and even if the singularity uprising was a valid hypothesis, it just doesn't belong in the Mass Effect universe.
But I do respect the time you've put into this. Kudos for that.

[PsyrenY]

dreman9999 wrote...

1. The star child is the on that offers synthesis...He's the only one there who know how it works...He's the only one who can apply it.
2.It's the same...It implantation because technology is put in organics.

1. No, the Crucible offers it. Furthermore, the Catalyst specifically can't apply any of the endings; only you can.
2. "Technology is not a straight line - there are many paths to the same ends." -Legion. It's not implanting.

[Heeden]

dreman9999 wrote...


To save you the troble, remeber the star child is the catayst, a part of the crucible...

No the Citadel is part of the Catalyst, the Crucible is an addition to the Citadel. The Star Child is the latent power of the Emperor slumbering in the warp and will awaken when his physical form dies, possibly bringing around Rhana Dandra.

Modifié par Heeden, 21 mai 2012 - 07:20 .

[dreman9999]

[quote]Heeden wrote...

[quote]dreman9999 wrote...

The Catalyst is not applying a damn thing. The Crucible, through the Citadel, is.
[/quote]And the catalyst is using the crucible to do it....Did you not get this point I made.
Then your going to say it made by organic which you think some how it mean reapers can't use it....Whcih makes no sence.
To save you the troble, remeber the star child is the catayst, a part of the crucible...

[/quote]

No the Citadel is part of the Catalyst, the Crucible is an addition to the Citadel. The Star Child is the latent power of the Emperor slumbering in the warp and will awaken when his physical form dies, possibly bringing around Rhana Dandra.

[/quote]"I am the catalyst...."
And isn't the caytalist need to finishs the crucible......It's a part of the crucible....Why can it use  the crusible?

Modifié par dreman9999, 21 mai 2012 - 07:21 .

[Veneke]

dreman9999 wrote...

1. But you never pointed what the narrative flaws are that wouldd  get the player to trust the star child....If you look them up...You'll see there are none.
2.It does when you note when the starchild say other options open up because of the crucible.

 
If the Star child is lying then Bioware hasn't included the ending. That's a pretty big narrative flaw.
 
Lemme get this one straight:
 
- The Crucible is the only way to get Synthesis to work.
 - Synthesis is a means of Reaper control.
 - It wasn't built by the Reapers because they considered themselves the pinnacle of evolution.
 
That's just... wrong. If Synthesis is a means of Reaper control then the Reapers being at the pinnacle of evolution doesn't explain why they didn't do Synthesis previously.

Modifié par Veneke, 21 mai 2012 - 07:24 .

[dreman9999]

Optimystic_X wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

1. The star child is the on that offers synthesis...He's the only one there who know how it works...He's the only one who can apply it.
2.It's the same...It implantation because technology is put in organics.

1. No, the Crucible offers it. Furthermore, the Catalyst specifically can't apply any of the endings; only you can.
2. "Technology is not a straight line - there are many paths to the same ends." -Legion. It's not implanting.

1. But it's the only on that can apply the choice bein gthat he is the only one who knows how it works...
2.The reaper don't think that.....Remeber this is a reaper that appling this...We have to understand how he will apply based on his morality...Not a geths.

[MisterJB]

dreman9999 wrote...
1. One of those options was a faster way to control all orgaincs.

You do realize that Synthesis destroys the Relays and Citadel and that without them, the Cycle is over.
The Relays were what dictated how technology would develop in the galaxy and the Citadel was the trap that assured their victory everytime.

If you realize this, then, in order to support your argument, you must conclude that Synthesis; which you call control of organics; is what the Catalyst wanted all along and there is no need for a Cycle anymore.
However, if controlling organics was what the Reapers want, they could have done that billions of years ago. Sure, it would have taken them a lot longer but certainly not as long as an endless cycle will. The key word here being "endless".
They could have just Indocrinated everyone and be done with it. They wouldn't need the Crucible.
As such, your theory is wrong.

[Heeden]

dreman9999 wrote...
]"I am the catalyst...."
And isn't the caytalist need to finishs the crucible......It's a part of the crucible....Why can it use  the crusible?

Hmm? The Catalyst is the AI who gives you the options, the Citadel is part of the Catalyst (its body), the Crucible is something extra added on.

The Star Child is something completely different from a different story.

[PsyrenY]

dreman9999 wrote...

1. But it's the only on that can apply the choice bein gthat he is the only one who knows how it works...
2.The reaper don't think that.....Remeber this is a reaper that appling this...We have to understand how he will apply based on his morality...Not a geths.

1. He knows what it does, sure. But the choice is still yours, and if Synthesis is available you can just as easily march up the red or blue paths instead, and he can't do a thing to stop you.
2. Again, you - Shepard - are applying the choice. Not the Reapers, or the Catalyst. Remember? You get to choose?

[dreman9999]

Veneke wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

1. But you never pointed what the narrative flaws are that wouldd  get the player to trust the star child....If you look them up...You'll see there are none.
2.It does when you note when the starchild say other options open up because of the crucible.

 
If the Star child is lying then Bioware hasn't included the ending. That's a pretty big narrative flaw.
 
Lemme get this one straight:
 
- The Crucible is the only way to get Synthesis to work.
 - Synthesis is a means of Reaper control.
 - It wasn't built by the Reapers because they considered themselves the pinnacle of evolution.
 
That's just... wrong. If Synthesis is a means of Reaper control then the Reapers being at the pinnacle of evolution doesn't explain why they didn't do Synthesis previously.

The starchild lie is not a narritive flaw but the not having the ending would...But it doesn't gear towards agreein gwith the starchild.
Also on .
1&2. The star child was the was the one that made the offer.And he is part of the reapers.
3.That the nature of the pinnicle of evolution but you need o ask your self why they think that way...It not based on the astablished form...It's the factthey don't need. The thing they want to do is evolve organics but being at the pinnicle of evoltionn does nto mean  they will not take something they feel is better. Being at the pinicle of evolution does not mean you are...It's a state of mind....Remeber, this is the same reapers that were taken down by threasher maws. The entire point of the scene was to point out they are not...That they just don't need.

[dreman9999]

Optimystic_X wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

1. But it's the only on that can apply the choice bein gthat he is the only one who knows how it works...
2.The reaper don't think that.....Remeber this is a reaper that appling this...We have to understand how he will apply based on his morality...Not a geths.

1. He knows what it does, sure. But the choice is still yours, and if Synthesis is available you can just as easily march up the red or blue paths instead, and he can't do a thing to stop you.
2. Again, you - Shepard - are applying the choice. Not the Reapers, or the Catalyst. Remember? You get to choose?

1. Not  unless they are also both traps.
2.No, my shepard is running into a firy beam....He is too busy dieing to apply his choice.