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[Taboo]

Shaigunjoe wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

lillitheris wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

I lost all desire to choose Control after the EC. Under no circumstances should an AI made from Shepard be in existence. It has no right to police or dictate what people do.

So don’t police or dictate, and don’t be such a drama queen.

I AM a drama queen.

I DID take theater in High School.

It is ironic that someone tells you do not police or dictate, then immediatly follows it by telling you what not  to do.

I'm just biding time until I start the games again later tonight.

It will be glorious.

[SpectreVeldt]

Ieldra2 wrote...
It's like Jacob tells Shepard at Lazarus Station: "You may have a few extra bits and pieces, but you're still you."

Shepard's "bits and pieces" are not sentient.  Which is not to say that I necessarily agree with some of the mentioned reasons and arguments against Synthesis in this thread.  And despite disliking the Synthesis solution, it is more complex than your implication(s) and can certainly at least be interpreted as such, even as I delineate my own problems with the Synthesis Ending.  Lots of ambiguity, which makes it a bit frustrating for me.

Modifié par SpectreVeldt, 30 juin 2012 - 10:36 .

[Shaigunjoe]

That's a long haul. I still need to finish my renegade play through, which is sitting around overlord in ME2.

[Taboo]

Shaigunjoe wrote...

That's a long haul. I still need to finish my renegade play through, which is sitting around overlord in ME2.

Everything worked out well with the EC, more people got what they wanted in the EC than I thought, myself included.

But yeah, I'm also going on vacation next week so I'll have plenty of time to play.

But I'm also buying wireless for my condo, so I'll be able to torment everyone here too.

[Xilizhra]

I probably shouldn't be reading this in so much detail because I haven't actually made it to the end yet, but I found it too interesting. Ultimately... I find myself agreeing with Ieldra here; the idea of synthesis, of harmony, of unity, is something of a dream come true for me as it is, and Ieldra's writing on this does make a great deal of sense. I admit it's sad that Shepard has to die for that to work (presumably), but it's a worthy sacrifice to evolve both forms of life so highly, to achieve harmony so glorious. For all that lives within eternity (or at least in this galaxy) to finally embrace each other. The ultimate Paragon dream.

Also, my Shepard uses the color green a lot as a bit of a motif.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 30 juin 2012 - 10:12 .

[Taboo]

But a forced harmony. Forced being the key word here.

[Xilizhra]

Taboo-XX wrote...

But a forced harmony. Forced being the key word here.

As compared to forced genocide or forced Reaper-based dictatorship?

[Spartas Husky]

If you have played Mass Effect, and have played Dragon age 2. You would know what synthesis is. Forced "harmony". Remember the tranquil?. Remember the lover of the mage is your friend. Remember that small lapse of sanity he had when he was a tranquil. And he begged you to kill him because he didn't want to go back being one.

Yet when he is a tranquil he is perfectly fine. WHy? simply because of his blood, and the idea that through mind or blood alteration "peace" can be achieved.

[Xilizhra]

Spartas Husky wrote...

If you have played Mass Effect, and have played Dragon age 2. You would know what synthesis is. Forced "harmony". Remember the tranquil?. Remember the lover of the mage is your friend. Remember that small lapse of sanity he had when he was a tranquil. And he begged you to kill him because he didn't want to go back being one.

Yet when he is a tranquil he is perfectly fine. WHy? simply because of his blood, and the idea that through mind or blood alteration "peace" can be achieved.

Ah, yes, because joyous celebration as seen in the ME3 ending is something the Tranquil do all the time. It pairs so seamlessly with the total emotionlessness.

[Sylvianus]

The joyous celebration is because they are brainwashed, so it's the same. ( or the joyous celebration didn't make any sense )

Javik couldn't be happy with his new upgrade, that is impossible. I fail to see the difference. If the tranquil made the mages apparently happy and inoffensive, would you be happy with the process ?

Modifié par Sylvianus, 30 juin 2012 - 10:20 .

[SpectreVeldt]

Xilizhra wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

But a forced harmony. Forced being the key word here.

As compared to forced genocide or forced Reaper-based dictatorship?

Wars have been fought to maintain the right to choose, even at the expense of countless lives.  Though, honestly, I do not believe this particular point as worthy as the multitude of other arguments that outline the potential loss and ambiguity that which the Synthesis Ending presents.  The former is ethically controversial; there is not merely a single moral standard to which an entire species/galaxy adheres.

[Welsh Inferno]

What the? Synthesis being compared with the Tranquil? What? Sorry but the only thing similar about it is that it is forced. (Which all the endings have in common..) Anything beyond that is speculation which are colored by how you feel about it. IE If you hate Synthesis on a moral basis(The forced choice) you will automatically come up with reasons to hate it whether they are true or not. Same goes for anyone who likes it. The human pshyche will do that automatically.

Modifié par Welsh Inferno, 30 juin 2012 - 10:27 .

[mauro2222]

It certainly changes the mindset of everyone in order to "tolerate" this changes and understand everybody from their opinions to differences. That's pretty much changing who they are and what they are. So yeah, it's some kind of brainwash, the people pre-synthesis are not the same post-synthesis, they were replaced. Otherwise they need to show a serious amount of suicides and pre-space civilizations entering a state of crisis to ensure they were not brainwashed.

Modifié par mauro2222, 30 juin 2012 - 10:30 .

[Taboo]

If the Geth are already dead it isn't an issue. But of course the rustled jimmies HAVE to get ancy as soon as Synthesis is attacked.

This is a Synthesis thread., not a Destroy one.

[Welsh Inferno]

mauro2222 wrote...

It certainly changes the mindset of everyone in order to "tolerate" this changes and understand everybody from their opinions to differences. That's pretty much changing who they are and what they are. So yeah, it's some kind of brainwash, the people pre-synthesis are not the same post-synthesis, they were replaced.

You don't know that though. Speculation. From what I saw its the other way around, the soldier and the husk look incredibly suprised and confused at the sudden change, if they were brainwashed into insta-liking it then their reaction would of been more of a happy one.

[mauro2222]

You don't want me to speculate with such a poor exposition?

You're also speculating that the change of mindset should be instant.

[Taboo]

Seriously. I swear, Synthesis is the same type of thing I heard at parties in college.

"Dude, what if, we were like, all the same."

REAL DEEP BRO.

[Welsh Inferno]

mauro2222 wrote...

You don't want me to speculate with such a poor exposition?

You're also speculating that the change of mindset should be instant.

Better exposition than pre-EC.

I didn't say I wasn't.I wrote what I see from my perspective. You see different, that's fine. But that is all it is.

[SpectreVeldt]

Welsh Inferno wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

It certainly changes the mindset of everyone in order to "tolerate" this changes and understand everybody from their opinions to differences. That's pretty much changing who they are and what they are. So yeah, it's some kind of brainwash, the people pre-synthesis are not the same post-synthesis, they were replaced.

You don't know that though. Speculation. From what I saw its the other way around, the soldier and the husk look incredibly suprised and confused at the sudden change, if they were brainwashed into insta-liking it then their reaction would of been more of a happy one.

Besides 'brainwashing' being a poor word choice, there is more than just this general idea that is problematic with the Synthesis Ending.  Quite a lot of people keep stating this theme, more or less, but it goes so much more deep than that.

[mauro2222]

Welsh Inferno wrote...

Better exposition than pre-EC.

I didn't say I wasn't.I wrote what I see from my perspective. You see different, that's fine. But that is all it is.

I see... fine then.

[Ieldra]

mauro2222 wrote...
It certainly changes the mindset of everyone in order to "tolerate" this changes and understand everybody from their opinions to differences. That's pretty much changing who they are and what they are. So yeah, it's some kind of brainwash, the people pre-synthesis are not the same post-synthesis, they were replaced. Otherwise they need to show a serious amount of suicides and pre-space civilizations entering a state of crisis to ensure they were not brainwashed.

There's no evidence at all that anyone is brainwashed. Perhaps these people, who have just survived a war to extinction, aren't as stuck up about principles as people on these boards but just happy that they survived and even gained something from it. 

Really, just try to put yourselves into their shoes.

@Taboo:
People are not all the same. I don't know what's gotten into you people that you deny what's it front of your eyes just because you don't the idea of Synthesis for totally unrelated reasons. If you're going to argue against it, at least stop these asspulls.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 30 juin 2012 - 10:46 .

[mauro2222]

SpectreVeldt wrote...

Besides 'brainwashing' being a poor word choice

Well, if you change someone's favourite colour by force, it's considered brainwash. The magnitude or extent doesn't matter.

[Welsh Inferno]

Ieldra2 wrote...

There's no evidence at all that anyone is brainwashed. Perhaps these people, who have just survived a war to extinction, aren't as stuck up about principles as people on these boards but just happy that they survived and even gained something from it. 

Really, just try to put yourselves into their shoes.

When people on here do that the response is usually something along the lines of them wanting to kill themselves... 

[Ieldra]

That's not putting you in their shoes. That's putting them in yours.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 30 juin 2012 - 10:48 .

[mauro2222]

Ieldra2 wrote...

There's no evidence at all that anyone is brainwashed. Perhaps these people, who have just survived a war to extinction, aren't as stuck up about principles as people on these boards but just happy that they survived and even gained something from it. 

Really, just try to put yourselves into their shoes.

I am. The same monsters who destroyed and killed everyone and everything you knew are your friends.