150 réponses à ce sujet

[JerZey CJ]

Also, when they DID give you options, you typically had less than ME1 or 2. I remember a post a Dev made in a thread after the demo came out, the thread was talking about how Shepard was only getting two choices in dialogue and the dev had said that that wasn't the norm and that Shepard for the most part would have at least three options. Oh the tangled webs you weave Bioware...

[Jaron Oberyn]

I remember Chris priestly saying that actually. It did turn out to be false as you said.

-Polite

[Blacklash93]

ME2 actually only gave us 2 dialogue options pretty often. The difference was that one of the options was always in the middle of the wheel. I seem to remember people making a little ruckus about that, as well. I don't think we can say that this decision to cut the middle option was a *sudden* shift we couldn't see coming based off previous works.

SalsaDMA wrote...

By that argument you could remove any option that was statistically less often chosen, at which point you can just go to the conclusion of "Why have choices at all?" and just put everything in stone as what you deem would be the most common 'choice' anyway.

In other words: Your argument is flawed.

There's a difference between "less often chosen" and "barely ever used at all". Since the middle option never rewarded players with reputation points and gave generally less exciting dialogue and scenarios, I can easily imagine the case here being the latter. You're wasting money on writing, recording, and programming if the dialogue if barely used by players. Those resources can be used elsewhere.

You don't have to agree with the decision, but you should at least understand it. I guess it also begs the question why they didn't just try to make the middle option more appealing, but I suppose they thought the option of being passive or moderately behaved in what are supposed to be dramatic conclusions to trilogy-spanning conflicts wasn't worth it.

Personally I do not see the lack of a middle option as a huge loss, though I will admit that I miss the loss in variety of responses when it comes to certain charcters expressing their views. Sometimes I didn't really agree with a character, but I didn't want to be jerk either. Sometimes it would make sense for my character to just go "Whatevs, let's get to the mission." It was very situational, but it will still be missed.

Auto-dialogue, however, is a blight upon the RPG genre and is a very poor design decision when used to the extent of ME3.

Modifié par Blacklash93, 24 mai 2012 - 04:31 .

[gbemery]

Just like the over all theme of Mass Effect 3 . Its to appease to a large crowd and how do you do that :happy:? By not going into one theme too thickly . They water everything down, give you a choice of conversations yet not too many, let you blow stuff up but customize gear:O. If they made it like the first two games where you chose 99% of the convo then the game would have to default too many decisions on action mode and they would have to make sure it didn't pick random options that would make it seem like Shep had bipolar disorder . yet with the way the ending happened it wouldn't matter . So to answer your question...laziness <_< pure utter laziness

[DaJe]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

I remember Chris priestly saying that actually. It did turn out to be false as you said.

-Polite

He also insulted the community for seeing the truth. What was it..."sometimes I doubt the intelligence of some members of the community"or something like that.

The irony.

[Sajji]

Why the concern about dialogue? There is multiplayer unlocks! And new maps!!

/sarcasm

[Fireblader70]

There are actually many times when you get to choose from three options, but there is still too much auto dialogue. I don't mind it as much as others, but some of what Shepard blurts out is ridiculous!

[JustifiablyDefenestrated]

I would just like to point out that the title of this thread should be either "Why are there fewer dialogue options?" or "Why is there less dialogue?".

Honestly, I didn't really mind. Nevertheless, more dialogue is never a bad thing.

[Elvis_Mazur]

- Multiplayer;
- Laziness;
- Making it less complex in order to attract more players.

Take your pick, or picks.

Hopefully, Skyrim changed their minds.

[mho]

Razhathael wrote...

ME2 > ME1 > ME3 as far the dialogue goes. It's a close call between ME1 and ME3 actually, what a lot of people don't realize is that most of the time the dialogue choices in ME1 were glorified auto-responses. There were A LOT of times when all three dialogue options were the exact same thing, just masked behind an illusion of choice. ME2 shines in this, every dialogue option was different, and there was hardly any auto-dialogue.

ME3 goes back to ME1 without asking for the choice. I don't like it, but I got over it.

Have you ever thought one thing and said another because the situation demanded it?

That was how I viewed the dialogue wheel in ME1. For me, the options on the wheel expressed what Shepard was thinking. The spoken dialogue was what Shepard then expressed in words or action. So it did make a difference for me which option I picked even if the text spoken was the same.

It did not often happen that all three options resulted in the same response. And at least in one instance, the identical response was due to me not using all investigate options - when I used all of the investigate options in a later playthrough, I got a different paragon response while the neutral option remained the same.

The dialogue wheel in Mass Effect 2 did not work for me in the same fashion, as I could not interpret it as expressing Shepard's thoughts. And despite the fact that all options gave different verbal responses, I often felt that it did not matter which option I picked as it did not affect the outcome of the conversation - just another fight. So for me ME1 > ME2. And it hurts if ME3 cuts this down even further.

[txgoldrush]

Wow...another idiotic thread about autodialogue....

Wow....you people simply do not get it.

Hell Weekes owned a guy on Twitter.

There is a TON more dialogue in ME3. How?

Because the whole game has scenes and missions with MULTIPLE scripts based on your choices in the first two games. This also includes Shepard, who also references his or her past decisions, nevermind the rest of the cast. Hell the Tuchanka missions script is VASTLY different if Wrex and Mordin are in it comapred to Wreav and Padok Wiks. Rannoch script is also very different based on if Tali and Legion survive ME2. Look at Grissom Academy, the entire script is different if Jack is not present.

More dialogue than ME1 and ME2, explained. Believe it.

Nevermind everyone forgets that the old system had FLAWS, which nuetral is not a viable option in terms of gameplay, the conversation is choppy thanks for the need to have a "choice" every line of dialogue, nevermind that the old system is completetly overrated when it comes to difference in the dialogue choices. Nevermind the weaker dialogue from Shepard, especially the painfully bad ME2 Renegade.

Also, I wonder why everybody thinks Meer and Hale improved their perfromances....My GOD, it must be the autodialogue.

And autodialogue is anti-RPG.....wow, you guys are looking up a bull ass. Well guess what? Many legendary RPGs USE AUTODIALOGUE....The Witcher series, Deus Ex series, for example. Hell even some Ultima games have Avatar autodialogue some lines. Hell, Fallout 2 had the character autodialogue from time to time as well.

And ME1 fans talking about laziness...oh wait, so ME3 using autodialogue is lazy, but copy paste planet and dungeon exploration in ME1 isn't? Wow, isn't hypocrisy fun?

Modifié par txgoldrush, 25 mai 2012 - 01:34 .

[KotorEffect3]

txgoldrush wrote...

Wow...another idiotic thread about autodialogue....

Wow....you people simply do not get it.

Hell Weekes owned a guy on Twitter.

There is a TON more dialogue in ME3. How?

Because the whole game has scenes and missions with MULTIPLE scripts based on your choices in the first two games. This also includes Shepard, who also references his or her past decisions, nevermind the rest of the cast. Hell the Tuchanka missions script is VASTLY different if Wrex and Mordin are in it comapred to Wreav and Padok Wiks. Rannoch script is also very different based on if Tali and Legion survive ME2. Look at Grissom Academy, the entire script is different if Jack is not present.

More dialogue than ME1 and ME2, explained. Believe it.

Nevermind everyone forgets that the old system had FLAWS, which nuetral is not a viable option in terms of gameplay, the conversation is choppy thanks for the need to have a "choice" every line of dialogue, nevermind that the old system is completetly overrated when it comes to difference in the dialogue choices. Nevermind the weaker dialogue from Shepard, especially the painfully bad ME2 Renegade.

Also, I wonder why everybody thinks Meer and Hale improved their perfromances....My GOD, it must be the autodialogue.

And autodialogue is anti-RPG.....wow, you guys are looking up a bull ass. Well guess what? Many legendary RPGs USE AUTODIALOGUE....The Witcher series, Deus Ex series, for example. Hell even some Ultima games have Avatar autodialogue some lines. Hell, Fallout 2 had the character autodialogue from time to time as well.

And ME1 fans talking about laziness...oh wait, so ME3 using autodialogue is lazy, but copy paste planet and dungeon exploration in ME1 isn't? Wow, isn't hypocrisy fun?

You rule

[Sajji]

txgoldrush wrote...

Wow...another idiotic thread about autodialogue....

Wow....you people simply do not get it.

Hell Weekes owned a guy on Twitter.

There is a TON more dialogue in ME3. How?

Because the whole game has scenes and missions with MULTIPLE scripts based on your choices in the first two games. This also includes Shepard, who also references his or her past decisions, nevermind the rest of the cast. Hell the Tuchanka missions script is VASTLY different if Wrex and Mordin are in it comapred to Wreav and Padok Wiks. Rannoch script is also very different based on if Tali and Legion survive ME2. Look at Grissom Academy, the entire script is different if Jack is not present.

More dialogue than ME1 and ME2, explained. Believe it.

Nevermind everyone forgets that the old system had FLAWS, which nuetral is not a viable option in terms of gameplay, the conversation is choppy thanks for the need to have a "choice" every line of dialogue, nevermind that the old system is completetly overrated when it comes to difference in the dialogue choices. Nevermind the weaker dialogue from Shepard, especially the painfully bad ME2 Renegade.

Also, I wonder why everybody thinks Meer and Hale improved their perfromances....My GOD, it must be the autodialogue.

And autodialogue is anti-RPG.....wow, you guys are looking up a bull ass. Well guess what? Many legendary RPGs USE AUTODIALOGUE....The Witcher series, Deus Ex series, for example. Hell even some Ultima games have Avatar autodialogue some lines. Hell, Fallout 2 had the character autodialogue from time to time as well.

And ME1 fans talking about laziness...oh wait, so ME3 using autodialogue is lazy, but copy paste planet and dungeon exploration in ME1 isn't? Wow, isn't hypocrisy fun?

Those different scripts you talk about...you mean the part where the Rachni still exist even though I wiped them out in ME1? That was unique dialogue?

You raise a few good points, but the rest of your commentary is merely opinion. Furthermore, whoever said auto-dialogue was anti-rpg?

This auto-dialogue shouldn't come as a surprise. Polite Assassin warned everybody the year leading up to ME3's release.

[Sn4kE4ten]

txgoldrush wrote...

Wow...another idiotic thread about autodialogue....

Wow....you people simply do not get it.

Hell Weekes owned a guy on Twitter.

There is a TON more dialogue in ME3. How?

Because the whole game has scenes and missions with MULTIPLE scripts based on your choices in the first two games. This also includes Shepard, who also references his or her past decisions, nevermind the rest of the cast. Hell the Tuchanka missions script is VASTLY different if Wrex and Mordin are in it comapred to Wreav and Padok Wiks. Rannoch script is also very different based on if Tali and Legion survive ME2. Look at Grissom Academy, the entire script is different if Jack is not present.

More dialogue than ME1 and ME2, explained. Believe it.

Nevermind everyone forgets that the old system had FLAWS, which nuetral is not a viable option in terms of gameplay, the conversation is choppy thanks for the need to have a "choice" every line of dialogue, nevermind that the old system is completetly overrated when it comes to difference in the dialogue choices. Nevermind the weaker dialogue from Shepard, especially the painfully bad ME2 Renegade.

Also, I wonder why everybody thinks Meer and Hale improved their perfromances....My GOD, it must be the autodialogue.

And autodialogue is anti-RPG.....wow, you guys are looking up a bull ass. Well guess what? Many legendary RPGs USE AUTODIALOGUE....The Witcher series, Deus Ex series, for example. Hell even some Ultima games have Avatar autodialogue some lines. Hell, Fallout 2 had the character autodialogue from time to time as well.

And ME1 fans talking about laziness...oh wait, so ME3 using autodialogue is lazy, but copy paste planet and dungeon exploration in ME1 isn't? Wow, isn't hypocrisy fun?

Spot. On.

In further regards to the neutral options, Weekes straight-up said they didn't fit the tone of the game.

[l7986]

Because its art.

[txgoldrush]

Sajji wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Wow...another idiotic thread about autodialogue....

Wow....you people simply do not get it.

Hell Weekes owned a guy on Twitter.

There is a TON more dialogue in ME3. How?

Because the whole game has scenes and missions with MULTIPLE scripts based on your choices in the first two games. This also includes Shepard, who also references his or her past decisions, nevermind the rest of the cast. Hell the Tuchanka missions script is VASTLY different if Wrex and Mordin are in it comapred to Wreav and Padok Wiks. Rannoch script is also very different based on if Tali and Legion survive ME2. Look at Grissom Academy, the entire script is different if Jack is not present.

More dialogue than ME1 and ME2, explained. Believe it.

Nevermind everyone forgets that the old system had FLAWS, which nuetral is not a viable option in terms of gameplay, the conversation is choppy thanks for the need to have a "choice" every line of dialogue, nevermind that the old system is completetly overrated when it comes to difference in the dialogue choices. Nevermind the weaker dialogue from Shepard, especially the painfully bad ME2 Renegade.

Also, I wonder why everybody thinks Meer and Hale improved their perfromances....My GOD, it must be the autodialogue.

And autodialogue is anti-RPG.....wow, you guys are looking up a bull ass. Well guess what? Many legendary RPGs USE AUTODIALOGUE....The Witcher series, Deus Ex series, for example. Hell even some Ultima games have Avatar autodialogue some lines. Hell, Fallout 2 had the character autodialogue from time to time as well.

And ME1 fans talking about laziness...oh wait, so ME3 using autodialogue is lazy, but copy paste planet and dungeon exploration in ME1 isn't? Wow, isn't hypocrisy fun?

Those different scripts you talk about...you mean the part where the Rachni still exist even though I wiped them out in ME1? That was unique dialogue?

You raise a few good points, but the rest of your commentary is merely opinion. Furthermore, whoever said auto-dialogue was anti-rpg?

This auto-dialogue shouldn't come as a surprise. Polite Assassin warned everybody the year leading up to ME3's release.

The entire dialogue with the new queen is different from the one saved in ME1.

Also their is major script difference in the same mission in regards to Grunt or Dagg.

Also someone here in this thread called autodialogue a "blight upon the genre",

Modifié par txgoldrush, 25 mai 2012 - 07:17 .

[Darkfoxz87]

Fixers0 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

From a couple of dev posts, it seems that they prioritized giving a more natural flow to conversations over giving the player lots of control.

Like they didn't flow in Mass Effect  or Mass Effect 2.

^This

The lack of Dialogue in Mass Effect 3 is my Biggest Complaint/dissapointment.

They cant say they did this for the new guys, they had action for that.

Most of the other stuff I can look past. (Lack of Squadmates, what they did to Jacob, ECT.) but Auto Dialogue was a big dissapointment.

Hell, even the ending dosen't bother me as much as this did.

[Darkfoxz87]

TheDeadGodsDream wrote...

Daniel_N7 wrote...

Isn't it interesting that the first interaction you have with your Shepard, in Mass Effect 1 and Mass Effect 2, is making a dialogue choice?
Then take a look at Mass Effect 3. See the difference?

Are you a goddamned liar?

Do you realize that ME2 started off with you getting out of bed, and killing a bunch of mechs while Shep has a bunch of GASP...auto-dialogue?

Do you ALSO realize that ME3 starts with Shepard speaking to James (which is auto) and Anderson (Dialogue Choice)?

Stop being ****ing stupid and hating ME3 for the sake of hating ME3.

Normandy

[Kakita Tatsumaru]

txgoldrush wrote...
Wow...another idiotic thread about autodialogue....
Wow....you people simply do not get it.
Hell Weekes owned a guy on Twitter.
There is a TON more dialogue in ME3. How?[
Because the whole game has scenes and missions with MULTIPLE scripts based on your choices in the first two games. This also includes Shepard, who also references his or her past decisions, nevermind the rest of the cast. Hell the Tuchanka missions script is VASTLY different if Wrex and Mordin are in it comapred to Wreav and Padok Wiks. Rannoch script is also very different based on if Tali and Legion survive ME2. Look at Grissom Academy, the entire script is different if Jack is not present.
More dialogue than ME1 and ME2, explained. Believe it.

You know, the problem with autodialogue isn't the number of dialogue lines, it's all about role playing. The more Shepard speaks by himself without the input of the player, the more out of characters things for the players which defined him in ME1 and ME2 he will say too. The less choices you have, the less it is possible to make Shepard reflect what reaction you think he should have.
It's all about roleplay.

Nevermind everyone forgets that the old system had FLAWS, which nuetral is not a viable option in terms of gameplay, the conversation is choppy thanks for the need to have a "choice" every line of dialogue, nevermind that the old system is completetly overrated when it comes to difference in the dialogue choices. Nevermind the weaker dialogue from Shepard, especially the painfully bad ME2 Renegade.

The problems didn't comes from the dialogues themselves, but from the way renegade/parangon system was implemented so the choices weren't the flaws, the way renegade/parangon worked was the problem.

Also, I wonder why everybody thinks Meer and Hale improved their perfromances....My GOD, it must be the autodialogue.

Don't know because I don't play on english version of the game, but if they're cannot do as well with short lines then the problem doesn't comes from the game imho.

And autodialogue is anti-RPG.....wow, you guys are looking up a bull ass. Well guess what? Many legendary RPGs USE AUTODIALOGUE....The Witcher series, Deus Ex series, for example. Hell even some Ultima games have Avatar autodialogue some lines. Hell, Fallout 2 had the character autodialogue from time to time as well.

Characters not defined by the players can have as much autodialogue as they wish because there's no risk for them to be out of characters because of that. And comparing ME3 to Fallout 2 when it comes to choices just makes me laugh.

And ME1 fans talking about laziness...oh wait, so ME3 using autodialogue is lazy, but copy paste planet and dungeon exploration in ME1 isn't? Wow, isn't hypocrisy fun?

One affect the whole game (for role player it's even the core of the game actually), the other affects side quests only.
Sure, it's the same problem.

[Kiadaw]

I do not mind it that much. Importantly, I get to make the important decisions. Geth vs Quarians, Genopage, or not etc.

[Babli]

I bet its because of Kinect. With its implementation, it would be just too much work to have as much dialogue options as in previous games considering, that all voice over choices must be programmed. Nothing elses, just Kinect´s fault, thats my opinion.

Maybe it was mentioned earlier, maybe not, I didnt read the entire thread.

Modifié par Babli, 25 mai 2012 - 11:43 .

[Il Divo]

Babli wrote...

I bet its because of Kinect. With its implementation, it would be just too much work to have as much dialogue options as in previous games considering, that all voice over choices must be programmed. Nothing elses, just Kinect´s fault, thats my opinion.

Maybe it was mentioned earlier, maybe not, I didnt read the entire thread.

This. ^

[Il Divo]

Sn4kE4ten wrote...

In further regards to the neutral options, Weekes straight-up said they didn't fit the tone of the game.

And yet, they fit ME1 and ME2 just fine. Let the player decide if the neutral options fit their player. I'm replaying ME3 right now. I haven't encountered anything yet that made me think "Hey, a neutral option really wouldn't fit right here".

[Lenseflare]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

I remember Chris priestly saying that actually. It did turn out to be false as you said.

-Polite

Here you go
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/323/index/9217053/1