57 réponses à ce sujet

[DahliaLynn]

Actually, less letting his guard down, but rather trying to keep a low profile, yet noticing along with the audience the looks he's getting. But some of these things can be subject to interpretation, Though I tried to make it as clear as possible without literally recreating the story word for word by spoonfeeding.

For the most part, to the average viewer the patrons' looks mean nothing. But for those who are connected to his character know very well what's going on, creating another dimension for someone who learns about his character, when viewing the scene again, and suddenly noticing..."hey...that's actually there". The introductory sequence is less important during that point, which is why I used that portion to narrate Fenris's backstory on a parallel level, and then left the rest of the action sequences be experienced smoothly.

Edit : Thanks It's one of the things I do for a living! Though I don't get enough opportunity to do more dramatic work, which is why I love voicing DA related material.

AAAND Edit no. 2:  I could have shot a CU of his "noticing" the looks, but I preferred him not to show it as someone would in real life. i.e. acting relatively natural and low profile. I really didn't want his eyes to meet with anyone's. So to compensate for that I allowed the audience to see the patrons' looks. Did it work? I'm not sure. But I think my general approach is valid for the most part. I tend to try to avoid spoonfeeding material when it compromises natural acting.

Modifié par DahliaLynn, 21 mai 2012 - 06:10 .

[Yara C.]

@Luc0s, for me it worked quite well. For me it is not the room as location which is important. Dahlia has shown enough of the room to give the viewer the necessary orientation. It is rather clear that Fenris has inhabited this room for an unknown time. But that does not matter anymore. Things have just changed. He is in danger.

You asked: And why do we constantly see a close-up of his face?
Not the room is -anymore- important. It is his inner world which counts in the moment he enters the room. His pacing, his considerations...He has to decide quickly. Not much to time to loose. Again on the run. The room was never a home. (We know enough about Fenris. He is no Mr. Miller who stumbles into an incident and whose normal life changes from one second to another.)

@Dahlia, even for a fully fledged film I wouldn´t have recommended to show much more of the room. Not at this point of time. In a film he could have stuffed hastily some things in a backpack . That would have shown more from the room but would not have added additional meaning.

That is how I perceived it. Shall not question your perception or criticism, Luc0s. We share more or less the same viewing paradigms but there are still some individually different viewing experiences. In this context it is Dahlia´s task to figure out if she has delivered successfully to the majority or not.

Edit: just reading your 2 last posts...didn´t refresh.

Modifié par Yara Cousland, 22 mai 2012 - 10:35 .

[DahliaLynn]

I agree with your thought process wholeheartedly. I would have said the same thing had I been in your shoes. The best of both worlds would be to show his eyes slightly moving to the side as he walks by the camera, then his gaze move back towards the direction he is walking, leaving the shot stationary and focusing on a staring patron. That might have done the job a bit better, without overdoing it. But eyes meeting could suggest a confrontation. I wanted it to be a bit more subtle.

Modifié par DahliaLynn, 21 mai 2012 - 06:33 .

[MerAnne]

I'm going to throw in my 2 cents as a viewer of cutscenes....
Firky - please remember that we don't have to see the face of each person that speaks. I think I would start getting motion sickness if the camera kept moving back and forth to focus on each person. If the protagonist isn't seen often, then starting the scene as Luc0s suggests and then swinging the camera to be "over the protagonist's shoulder" (or some neutral spot) could work. That sets the scene and then you are showing the action from one (or a few) location. In RL, if you were the one watching 'something' you wouldn't be able to jump into the middle so that you could spin in circles to make eye contact with each person who speaks. So don't feel that your protagonist has to be able to make eye contact with each individual. Set this scene up with some spare floorspace. If you were the protagonist, where would you stand and what would you be able to see? If this is a playable mod, that's what the player should see. However, this is only my opinion, there are reasons - like enhancing the feeling you want to convey - to do something quite different from what I suggested.

First, I love Dahlialynn's work so my comments on the Fenris cutscene are really pretty minor. I got that everyone was behaving strangely, although it would have been useful if one of the 'last couple' as he is climbing the stairs would have glanced up at him. A partial turning of the head - no more. The 'pacing in the room' was a little too short for my taste, it was clear that he was in a room and it was probably one that he had been renting. There wasn't enough pacing (or it was too fast) to show inner turmoil and a decision to leave. Having him picking up something on his way to the window would have made it clear that it was HIS room, but I can live with the implication that it was his room. Really nothing I just mentioned needs to be changed so that I can get the impact of the cutscene.

However - the following portion of the cutscene is something that I would suggest changing: The crossbowman standing in front of Fenris with 3 swordsmen behind him if that isn't written into the story the cutscene is based on, I would suggest changing it. If the crossbowman misses Fenris, then one of the three swordman is likely to be skewered. Even if they aren't, they are going to be darn ticked with the crossbowman for aiming his weapon in their direction (even if he is a noble)! A more 'typical' set up would be 4 swordsman with one blocking the door or multiple crossbowmen with Fenris' back to the wall. I was in martial arts and a friend teaches both archery and swordsmanship - I automatically see that kind of thing, normal people probably don't. The rest of my issues.... well, I don't think that you can change them based on the DA toolset and the DA background.

The good.... The turned heads were enough to set the scene that something atypical is happening. Bartenders don't take the time to watch every patron walk by. The woman might have been checking him out. The rat was great as a device to show that he is gone and it felt safe to come out. Looking at the bum laying in the street indicated his concern that he was being watched. A person on the roof made it clear that this was a setup, not Fenris having the poor luck to jump out of the window when the guards were close enough to see him. The woman smelling bread was an indication that he was in a kitchen and the size indicated that it was probably a private residence - loved the pan followed by fainting. I really admire the level of detail and subtlety that DahliaLynn put into cutscenes

And this was with the sound muted because I doubt that anyone would have believed that the cutscene was work related ;-)

Comments on cutscenes in general: 1) I want it to add something to the story. Something that I wouldn't have otherwise known without reading a lot of text. 2) Make me feel something. Using the example of Fenris - he was suspicious, paranoid, conflicted, determined, frightened, amused, and angry (not in that order) in under 5 minutes. Emotional involvement makes the cutscene something that can be watched repeatedly. 3) Stay consistent with the existing story/mod/game. If the viewer is distracted by wondering how the darkspawn got THERE without anyone noticing (using DAO as an example), they aren't going to notice the brilliant cinematics.

Hope the viewpoint of a cutscene viewer was helpful.....

[DahliaLynn]

MerAnne wrote...

 There wasn't enough pacing (or it was too fast) to show inner turmoil and a decision to leave. Having him picking up something on his way to the window would have made it clear that it was HIS room, but I can live with the implication that it was his room. Really nothing I just mentioned needs to be changed so that I can get the impact of the cutscene.

And that, is the magic of sound effects and visual suggestion Had you turned the sound on, you may have been able to pick up on the fact that he did indeed gather his things and leave. If you feel the same with sound on, then I probably erred in my suggestive shots, but better to know what you think with audio turned on.

However - the following portion of the cutscene is something that I would suggest changing: The crossbowman standing in front of Fenris with 3 swordsmen behind him if that isn't written into the story the cutscene is based on, I would suggest changing it. If the crossbowman misses Fenris, then one of the three swordman is likely to be skewered. Even if they aren't, they are going to be darn ticked with the crossbowman for aiming his weapon in their direction (even if he is a noble)! A more 'typical' set up would be 4 swordsman with one blocking the door or multiple crossbowmen with Fenris' back to the wall. I was in martial arts and a friend teaches both archery and swordsmanship - I automatically see that kind of thing, normal people probably don't. The rest of my issues.... well, I don't think that you can change them based on the DA toolset and the DA background.

The story calls for the leader coming in through the door, surprising Fenris, and the guards chasing him from behind end up surrounding him. (Well at least one) I liked the idea of him having nowhere to go. If anything I would remove the guard standing directly behind Fenris. He would be most prone to an unexpected hit. In a small environment it's rather  tough to move about, but I certainly did have some room to work with. Noted!!  Btw I also have several years of Martial Arts experience. It really helps when creating these

The good.... The turned heads were enough to set the scene that something atypical is happening. Bartenders don't take the time to watch every patron walk by. The woman might have been checking him out. The rat was great as a device to show that he is gone and it felt safe to come out. Looking at the bum laying in the street indicated his concern that he was being watched. A person on the roof made it clear that this was a setup, not Fenris having the poor luck to jump out of the window when the guards were close enough to see him. The woman smelling bread was an indication that he was in a kitchen and the size indicated that it was probably a private residence - loved the pan followed by fainting. I really admire the level of detail and subtlety that DahliaLynn put into cutscenes

It's really incredible to see the perspective of one who has not read the story. Those usually viewing the scene are Fenris fans, but If I managed to make this work for someone less familiar with the story, even though you interpreted it differently it still worked, and in my opinion that's a good thing. I was hoping for that to some extent.

And this was with the sound muted because I doubt that anyone would have believed that the cutscene was work related ;-)

I hope you get the chance to see this with sound on. Am curious to know if that changed your perspective a bit.

Thanks so much for the input on all counts!

I hope this thread extends beyond criticizing stuff that has been done, but rather allow us to discuss works in progress. I certainly know that during the times I was stuck or blocked, I was definitely in need of some outside perspectives such as those shared here

Modifié par DahliaLynn, 21 mai 2012 - 07:07 .

[Firky]

@Luc0s and MerAnne Thanks for suggestions. The other spanner in the works is that there is no voice acting. (Another reason to "pass the mod" perhaps.)

So, each line is just delivered in words on top of the screen. I experimented with putting the character's name in brackets etc, but it totally interrupts the flow. I do have some description lines in brackets, so I guess a wide shot of everyone could utilise one of those lines ...

[MerAnne]

DahliaLynn - with the sound and a larger screen, I could figure out what was happening a bit better. There were a few 'looks' at that bar area that I missed when I was keeping everything small/quiet at work. Still, I haven't played DA II (although Fenris' voice is making me realize there might be compensations!) so having the words didn't really change my interpretation very much. Someone is chasing him. The guy at the end likely had a little issue with decapitation during a previous run in. The crossbow is what causes me issues, not the 4 people. Putting him in a literal corner so that there is no chance of the crossbow bolt hitting the wrong person? The martial arts definitely helps with choreographing battles - although it does tend to make me a tad picky (ok, I'm picky anyway, but it is a good excuse). The cutscene makes me wish that they would hurry the heck up with 'hidden circle'. Yes, I hope the conversation extends - I may want to write some cutscenes someday and the discussions that go into making decisions are likely to be helpful.

Firky - definitely do the voiceovers. Do them yourself, ask friends, but having the voices makes it much easier to follow the conversation. I don't claim to be GOOD, but I can do a few female voices if there are any women in that crowd. You can always replace voices when/if someone good volunteers!

Everyone, It will be quite a while before I even consider trying to do a cutscene, but I'm always willing to give feedback and I'm sure others can give the technical info on how to change the things that I commented on!

[Firky]

It's an interesting thing, this cinematic business. Like, I thought, "I don't need voices. I'll just write it so that it makes sense without voices/cutscenes, visual novel style, add some slideshows, go a bit nuts on the exposition etc, it'll be for people who like reading." And, the entire design of the minimodule is driven by that. (Edit, for examples. Like there is a lot of laughing which suits my story, but not cinematics, or so I believe, as well as a range of endings, which should be designed to take care of evocativeness - they should make you mad until you get the "good" ending. Think of it more like the original Monkey Island than Dragon Age. )

What I hadn't taken into account is the cameras and how just showing face by face makes no sense. The fact that it's a play, with audience, needs to be at least illustrated in a very basic fashion. So, I was surprised to find that it actually even needed some kind of stage for the big conversations.

It's a fascinating process.

It'd be an interesting project to try to actually give it voiceovers and cutscenes. There are some benefits/attractive qualities for the cinematically inclined. Like, it is a finished, contained story, so a cinematic designer could come in and just take a B2B load, knowing that they don't have to rely on story/scripting to be finished etc. They can just work some magic on it - as a challenge.

Then again, would they need to work with a level designer, for example? Surely they would. I've just used "A Templar's Dream" from the SP campaign and added about 5 simple objects; a couch, a table and some blood. There are 3 men, 3 women, a narrator, a nug and a halla who stamps that would need sound.

As I think Dahlia Lynn said to me (but I may have recalled this slightly wrong) one of the interesting things about the toolset is that it shines when people work together. I dunno. I'll keeping considering making this a "Pass the Mod" project.

Modifié par Firky, 22 mai 2012 - 02:14 .

[DahliaLynn]

MerAnne wrote...

 There wasn't enough pacing (or it was too fast) to show inner turmoil and a decision to leave. Having him picking up something on his way to the window would have made it clear that it was HIS room, but I can live with the implication that it was his room.

I was more interested in knowing how you felt about the pacing in the bedroom with sound turned on. The narration and music affects pacing, and sound effects added assisted the visuals when he was picking stuff up. that's basically why I asked since you mentioned pacing. I didn't think sound would make a difference in the crossbow  scene

Anyhow, I don't think the scene is perfect at all and I certainly don't like to use the excuse of "it was the best I could do under the circumstances". If it isn't good, then I won't release regardless of the reasons..but I did think that even with its conceptual and design flaws it was worth the effort in the long run.

Edit: And thanks for your input! It's always welcome This thread will hopefully not surround only my work but others who feel they would like feedback from the community.

Modifié par DahliaLynn, 22 mai 2012 - 12:13 .

[DahliaLynn]

@Firky If you planned on it being a visual novel, you could do something a bit different. Instead of conforming to rules of the game engine, and cinematics which go hand in hand with the camera/actor relationship, you could take screen shots of your characters with various facial expressions/reactions and add them as slides as you initially intended.

On the other hand, if you want to be more adventurous, then I definitely would encourage you to build collaboration with a "pass the mod" project! If there is one thing a CS designer can't work without, it's a story

[MerAnne]

The pacing scene wasn't long enough (to me) nor were the sound effects clear enough that he paced, packed, and jumped out the window. He seemed to enter the room, zip from one side to another while making some noise and then jumped into the window. It was implied, but I'm not sure that I would have known what was happening if I hadn't read about it before watching it. I'm downloading some files to do some testing for a friend. After that is done, I might look at it on the larger monitor and see if screen size makes it clear. 15" laptop screen with the video maximized, but the desktop is bigger. That might help the nearsighted person ;-)

The pacing scene is the one that you don't feel is perfect? Have you considered improving the lighting and pulling the camera back a bit? That might make it easier (for the nearsighted person) to see what he is doing more clearly. The problem is that he isn't seen carrying anything when he is running so it isn't like he can pack anything that is very large. Escaped slave.... I'm trying to think what he would have other than the honking big sword that he would grab to take with him. Since the implication is that this isn't his first escape it isn't like he is going to have a lot of personal possessions to pack. Escaped slave - first inclination isn't to stop and do some serious shopping at the first opportunity. At this point, I'm typing as I'm thinking so nothing that I would suggest using to change the scene.

As an escaped slave on the run - what items did you envision him grabbing and putting in a pack? I'll look later to see if I can identify items with the larger monitor. I'm trying to decide if he would have anything other than - possibly - food and maybe a change of clothes. What would an escaped slave buy (or steal) after escaping while he is still on the run? I'm going to have to watch the video again. See what (if anything) he could be carrying. My initial thought is that it might be best to see him START to pack clothes or a few mundane items, decide he doesn't have time, and then jump to the window sill.

I haven't watched the video since last night. I have to do more RL stuff, but I'll try to watch again and see what is the result of faulty memory and what actually happens.

Thinks you can't fix.... the way the joints and 'muscles' move. There are things that are just subtly wrong about a number of movements produced using the DA toolset. Those things, I try not to mention.

[DahliaLynn]

Actually the scene is done as far as I'm concerned. I just asked because you initially mentioned that the bedroom moment felt too quick, only you viewed it without audio. I wanted to know if you still felt that way with all the elements of sound, narration and music combined in the overall picture. It seems you still do, which is fine as well. Had I still been working on it I probably could have made different considerations.

Also FYI for technical reasons, regardless of what he packs I would not have actually shown the item in the shot unless it was crucial to the story. But it's cool that you've gone into the theoretical details

Modifié par DahliaLynn, 23 mai 2012 - 04:15 .

[MerAnne]

Didn't mean to disappear - RL really stinks sometimes.

I'm FINE with it being done! Must have misunderstood - that has happened before.

I've had many many documents, software, projects, etc reviewed by others over the years and the absolute worst comments are "I didn't like it" with no suggestion on what might help fix it. I hate those so I always try to provide a suggestion when I'm asked to review/comment something. I also realize that every word that drops from my fingertips is not gold so if my suggesting/comment isn't implemented, I don't take it personally. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I usually have several of them - all at the same time and at least a few conflicting!

[MerAnne]

Oh, and back to discussion - anyone have a cutscene that they have questions about or want reviewed?

[DahliaLynn]

It's really amazing how one thing affects another in a cutscene with all the elements involved. I admire your courage in sharing your video in this thread! It does take guts to have your work open for criticism, but in the end, the final result can benefit from it, whether you choose to take the advice, or not. Getting outside perspectives is always helpful.

I'll start with my own point of view

First of all, for a person with no experience you've done an incredible and creative job at putting all of this together. You really shouldn't stop, and taking some time off from these things really does help. The issues I'll discuss further in this post is only about improving your art in the sense of basic rules to follow. The rest is your gut feeling

In general, if your heart says "something isn't right" most likely it isn't. I prove this to myself on every occasion, when I sometimes choose to say, "nahh, it's ok..its passable" when essentially, it isn't and I end up regretting letting it go.

While watching the video, I didn't think the music was inappropriate, since the theme of the scene in general was sentimental. What you might want to experiment with is mixing the music together so that they form one long track, and once the dialogue begins, slightly lower the volume. It provides a nice background to the issues discussed in my opinion.

I did find myself not listening to what was being said even after multiple views, and asked myself why that was. After further rewatching, I understood the reason, and it wasn't because of the music.

When a character has something important to say, I think it best that you focus on that character's face. Every time Wynne speaks she is off camera or in a shot where I can't really see her well. Its always good to show her when she talks, and every once in a while switch to the recipients' (Cullen's) reaction. It makes the conversation more apparent and flows better. The more important the message, the closer the shot can be. When it becomes slightly expository, you can cut to a medium shot, or a reaction shot. I liked how you zoomed into the Warden slowly as one of the expository talk techniques.

You mentioned the opening shot moves too quickly. I agree. The music is nice and slow, and the shot should fit that feel imo.

The other issues I noticed aside from what you mentioned are:

The shot compositions: Showing a character's face head-on can be jarring, unless you would like to depict their point of view in the next shot. It's always good to keep angles consistent when switching between characters. That is, decide where your physical cameras are sitting, and keep them there, (using similar angle to character ratios) unless the character moves. If you choose a closeup, maintain the same angle as you would in your medium shot. It helps the viewer focus on whats going on and determine where things are relative to each other. A great video I recently edited in the OP with is this: Framing  Placing characters in the center of the frame while they are looking in a particular direction feels uncomfortable. Like here  . She looks to the right, so there needs to be a bit of space open to our right to give her "look room" . I also feel the angles are a bit low and there is a lot of dead space around the characters so I find myself sometimes straining to look at them.

The 180 Degree rule:
The switch you make from here to the next shot is a bit jarring. Wynne walks in to stand with Cullen, but then you literally cut the line between the two by bringing the camera over two hundred degrees in the other direction.

So if you are establishing this, then stay on that side (the line between cullen and the Warden)  for the next shot. which should be shot from cullens right side. You don't even need to show Wynne walking in from the back, but joining him by entering a medium shot. Then at this point if you move the camera to the right, and keep it steady, you have a nice establishing shot of where they are in space relative to the Warden and kids. If you want to slowly zoom in on the Warden, then show Cullen and Wynne looking from that side of the line,  and then the zoom would be what they are looking at keeping a similar angle in mind. Then continue the conversation with the suggestions I wrote above if you see fit. 

I hope this post made some sense. Sometimes these things are tough to put into words Also, please don't think the sheer volume of what I wrote means your work isn't good. I'm just trying to point out a few things that you might want to try in order to improve the flow, but in the end, the scene has to feel good to you 

Edit: There will always be circumstances where you will need to move the 180 degree line, or break it. If you have to do so, I would suggest doing it together with the audience, by showing a camera moving in that direction. This way the audience can easily follow the characters and their place in space without losing orientation. 

Modifié par DahliaLynn, 28 mai 2012 - 08:12 .

[Yara C.]

Yes, takes guts. Chapeau, Allacia. Not much to add after Dahlias detailed post. However I would like to emphasize that it is helpful to realize always where the action line is. The action line between Wynne and Cullen seems somewhat neglected.

Let me as well have a look at the start of the new action line between them.
We see in a shot Wynne arriving at Cullen´s side from behind. Next shot is a medium close up of Amell. Fade to black (= time passes). The next shot is a single shot of Wynne.

I could imagine that the new action line between Cullen and Wynne could have been more established in the beginning if we would see how Wynne looks at Cullen who glances at Amell in a two person shot. (Optionally that we could see Wynne following his glance and looking back to Cullen if an emphasis would be desired.)

To show that Cullen is still absorbed by his view ( motivated zoom in / push in on Amell) and doesn´t realize that Wynne has arrived until she starts to speak is fine, but to my impression Wynne´s entrance is not yet balanced enough.
My considerations are: either another position of these 2 shots - Amell and Cullen at their new locations before Wynne arrives or at the same position (in the time line) after Wynne´s entrance has been established sufficiently. To establish Wynne´s entrance and a new action line the focus should shift to my opinion more to Wynne. Like considered above. If Wynne´s entrance is well established her speak line could even start from the off disturbing Cullen´s absorption.

Cullen´s reaction is for me in this context a bit too prompt. His immersion is suddenly interrupted. I would expect to see a bit more irritation about Wynne´s appearance in his facial expression, a slow head movement...

A glance is a powerful means if the set up is adequate.
A new action line to a third person or between other persons watched at can be established by a glance of an actor.
It is recommendable to keep continuity if the current action line should not be broken. I will not go more in details because I don´t want to iterate even more what Dahlia mentioned already in other words.

I have appreciated your work some months ago. I have not to tell you this again, or do I? Cookie
(To got stuck at certain point in a cutscene is to my opinion a regular phenomenon. Quite regular. I switch then to another cutscene, level work or other toolset stuff. Knowing that inspiration will struck me - suddenly but regularly as well - while I sit in the train to my job. @Dahlia, no risk of suddenly attacking lamp posts.

Modifié par Yara Cousland, 29 mai 2012 - 11:34 .

[DahliaLynn]

The cutscene editor can get really addicting!! I'm really glad you were ok with what I wrote. It can get really tough to hear about your work, and this is of course only my point of view as others may have a different view. Whenever I personally can't figure something out, there are a few community members here who are already used to my begging them for feedback

Allacia wrote...
On a different note I thought it was curious that I sensed that the music was drawing more attention than the conversation. I think I was wrong to conclude that the music was the cause and it didn’t occur to me that it was composition of the shots – oops! It’s funny as I do get a gut feeling when a scene isn’t right – I just struggle to pinpoint the source which can be frustrating at times.

There are so many factors involved sometimes it's really hard to pinpoint why something doesn't feel right. Sometimes even one little shot change makes all the difference, other times it can be a sound effect, a facial animation, line delivery timing, an angle..a shot combo. This is usually the time you need to experiment, and if nothing works, take some time off. One fine morning all of a sudden it will hit you Countless times I was surprised at how I managed to solve things with a slight change, (this did come at the cost of a few depressing days, but with experience that slowly goes away ) 

For the past week or so I've been struggling with this scene, which is a technical nightmare. This required me to make cuts, hide portions that didn't look good, animation jumps and several other issues. Even with all of these issues taken care of, something just didn't feel right. I kept trying to figure out why it wasn't looking right, and after I made sure all the animation combinations and keying worked the way they should, I realized my shot composition was lacking. The space behind them was orange and empty. So I changed prop placement per cut, added lighting, and the final fix that made it all work was camera movement continuity which was another main reason it didnt feel right. I finally finished it (and then made the changes to the 30 versions I had to complete-ugh) I'm hoping that at this point it flows relatively well all things considered. 

I just realized you wrote that the music doesn't loop well. That is usually the case with Inon Zur's music, and it takes a lot of music editing experience to make his stuff work smoothly as if it were extended. If you like I can give it a shot. (I've spent many years working with music)

I'd also like to make a few minor edits to my post. I found I didn't explain my reasoning as clearly as I would have liked.

Dahlialynn wrote...
When a character has something important to say, I think it best that you focus on that character's face. Every time Wynne speaks she is off camera or in a shot where I can't really see her well. Its always good to show her when she talks, and every once in a while switch to the recipients' (Cullen's) reaction. It makes the conversation more apparent and flows better. The more important the message, the closer the shot can be. When it becomes slightly expository, you can cut to a medium shot, or a reaction shot.

"It makes the conversation more apparent and flows better."
What I meant was, it makes the viewer able to listen and absorb what the character says, as if we are standing right there watching. The minute you take that camera off the speaker, you risk a loss of train of thought, unless you've captured our interest enough to let your camera "eyes" wander off to other places, or those images are relevant enough to complement what is being said.

"The more important the message" could mean more dramatic, a new idea, pivotal moment, or a specific point the character wants to make.

In general, once you get used to these rules/guidlines you can then feel free to break them intentionally  

Yara has written some excellent points! Thanks for joining in   I agree, envisioning your stuff while riding a train is far safer than doing it while dog walking  

Edit: Oh, and if you would like to share an updated version and share your thoughts on your approach, that would be great! Hopefully anyone following this thread can get something out of this as well.

Modifié par DahliaLynn, 30 mai 2012 - 02:35 .

[DahliaLynn]

Yeah, thirty versions  All race/gender love interest combinations, alone, and with dog (dog was Sunjammer's idea ) Sounds like an odd mod, but it was the best thing I could come up with to set the general setting for integration with my Alistair Dream/Nightmare scene. (in sig) It will be designed to give any Warden an opportunity to segue from night camp to a sunrise morning camp with a little "go to sleep" style cutscene.  Also, the plan is for other modders to add their own cutscenes if they wish  

The real tough part about it is the varying sizes of each race and gender.  Keying, lots of animation combo changes  and camera framing require tweaking, so I can't just do the "replace character" template routine.  A mo-cap studio would help.../vent

But I'm way off topic. Will send you a PM regarding the music stuff and contact details

Modifié par DahliaLynn, 31 mai 2012 - 04:48 .

[Yara C.]

Allacia wrote...

@Yara - You are right about the new action line between Wynne and Cullen not being well established. I believe the fade to black may be better replaced with having Wynne glancing at Cullen and then Amell as you suggest. I also think you are right about Cullen's response to Wynne's interruption...though do you think he'd be irritated or embarrassed? Maybe both? And I love cookies!! 

It is up to you what you want to communicate, how you would like to tell it. If he just realizes that Wynne has arrived I would expect more irritation. If he should realize that he has been observed and feels caught in his thoughts or reveries more embarrassment. Some nuances in timing and facial expression would make the difference. Both? Again an issue of timing. Dependant on the time you want to leave for non-verbal expressions and when Wynne starts to speak. That changes a lot. She is direct and straightforward. And that´s not Alistair with whom she has travelled for some time.  It is templar with all the contextual luggage.

@Dahlia, excellent how you got it to work.