702 réponses à ce sujet

[balance5050]

mauro2222 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

"Later we discovered that they were indoctrinated"

"sounds like history is repeating itself"

"our studies of past ages have lead us to beleive that time is cyclical, many patterns repeat, - THE SAME CONFLICTS ARE EXPRESSED IN EVERY CYCLE."

http://www.youtube.c...K0WYH6xE#t=70s

That could also mean Rachni Wars, Krogan Wars, Geth Wars... all of them to weaken the galaxy.

We have the Metacon wars with the Protheans.

Very good!

Yeah...but, while Cerberus does stupid things, they're a threat to the Reapers, not an asset.

Yeah, it's not like he went to tell the reapers that we needed the citadel for the crucible plan, betraying organics at a crucial point and brown nosing reaper ass.... oh wait.

He needs the Citadel and the Reapers together... he's still a third party in this conflict and the reapers his enemy.

I fthe reapers were his enemy he would want to destroy them, not prevent Shepard from destroying them.

[llbountyhunter]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

well the comic makes it seem as if though TIM was indoctrinated, especially since he could understand the artifact.

The comic made it seem as though TIM benefited from the device without being indoctrinated.

Cause he was, you know, opposing all those other indoctrinated people, and never showed signs of worshipping the Reapers, wanting to obey them, or actual indicators of being under their influence.

however it is possible that the "decay" happens when your in constant contact with reaper tech. after the artifact was the destroyed the decay process stopped, but not the effects of indoctrination (this does not contradict the husks dying after the reaper severs contact because husks are already completely transformed)

TIM is in constant contact with Reaper tech: the implants in his body.

I also think true indoctrination resumed to TIM in me3 thanks to having prolonged contact with the reaper larvae for several months

TIM is indoctrinated because of the special implants he has emplaced in himself, as we see the recording of on the Cerberus station.

1. not possible, or has not been revealed anywhere else in the game.
2. yes, but thats not what im saying.
3. ?

[Daedalus1773]

Wow. I check in on the board a month later, and the IT people are still foaming at the mouth. I can't believe you people are still debating something that was unlikely to begin with, and debunked by Bioware themselves months ago. Nutters.

[Dean_the_Young]

balance5050 wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

They are an uncontroled asset of the reapers in away. Just because the reapers can influence them, does not mean they are with the reapers. It just means can get another enemy to fight another enemy.

Or turn it around: the Reapers are an uncontrolled asset to Cerberus. The Reapers fight the same people Cerberus fights, and Cerberus probably sees itself better off with each Homeworld falling to Reaper control.

Strange that...

Not really: it's called being a co-belligerant, as opposed to being an ally. The enemy of my enemy is my enemy's enemy, nothing more and nothing less.


Cerberus's exact orientation and relationship in the Reaper War is most accurately called 'opportunism.'  It takes advantage of the chaos of the Reapers for its own ends, not for the purpose of the Reapers (which Cerberus ultimately wants to dominate).

[dreman9999]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

actually, while your point makes sense, the game makes it seem like all indoctrinated agents do not want to destroy the reapers.

They don't have to actually want to destroy the Reapers while under indoctrination. They can simply lie: privately go 'yay Reapers!' while viewing what they do as a necessary part of that glory.

every single person indoctrinated we encounter, either wants to use them, or to unite with them.

Or to fall to them: Doctor Kenson in Arrival.

1.Which is why their is a chance TIM can be indoctriated...
2.Kenson wanted to unite with them and revere them.

[balance5050]

[quote]Dean_the_Young wrote...


[/quote]Or to fall to them: Doctor Kenson in Arrival.
[/quote]

Dr. Kenson "Why couldn't you just stay asleep Shepard?"

Hackett "You feeling better?"

Shep " No more visions, if that's what you mean"

[mauro2222]

dreman9999 wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

He needs the Citadel and the Reapers together... he's still a third party in this conflict and the reapers his enemy.

But that doen't stop him from being influced by the reapers via indoctrination.

Assuming he is indoctrinated in the first place. Crazy nuts is another explanation, lust for power another.
In my case he's not indoctrinated, that's why he is a third party and not an asset.

[balance5050]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

They are an uncontroled asset of the reapers in away. Just because the reapers can influence them, does not mean they are with the reapers. It just means can get another enemy to fight another enemy.

Or turn it around: the Reapers are an uncontrolled asset to Cerberus. The Reapers fight the same people Cerberus fights, and Cerberus probably sees itself better off with each Homeworld falling to Reaper control.

Strange that...

Not really: it's called being a co-belligerant, as opposed to being an ally. The enemy of my enemy is my enemy's enemy, nothing more and nothing less.


Cerberus's exact orientation and relationship in the Reaper War is most accurately called 'opportunism.'  It takes advantage of the chaos of the Reapers for its own ends, not for the purpose of the Reapers (which Cerberus ultimately wants to dominate).

Anyone who isn't enemies with the reapers are fools or indoctrinated.

[CrazyBirdman]

My problems with the IT have nothing to do with the actual story. I am Anti IT because if it would be true, the ending in ME3 would not be one which would be infuriating to me way more than just a "bad" ending. Additionally the IT basically says there are wrong choices in the end and I hate choices that just end your game and force you down a particular path especially in an game that is based only around descisions. Wrong descisions need to affect the gameplay not end the game. To me it would be only lazy game design. (I am not fine with playing other characters to finish the war)
I would be OK with the IT if it was actually built away right from the start of ME1 and that really good.
But that is not to discredit the creators of the IT, it is very thought out and works surprisingly well in the ME-universe.

[Dean_the_Young]

llbountyhunter wrote...

1. not possible, or has not been revealed anywhere else in the game.

It was the point of the comic itself: that TIM was an aberation to the artifact.

It was never a point in the games because TIM being indoctrinated was never a point until the end of ME3.

2. yes, but thats not what im saying.

If TIM were being indoctrinated from the start, it would be via his implants, the means by which the artifact controls its thralls. TIM never loses his implants.

3. ?

On the last floor of the Cerberus Head Quarters, there's a video recording of TIM having one of his doctors implant himself with Reaper technology, the stuff we see on his face in the ending.

[mauro2222]

balance5050 wrote...

I fthe reapers were his enemy he would want to destroy them, not prevent Shepard from destroying them.

They are a threat to "humanity", but they are also a weapon to "defend" - "humanity" (I love the suggestive tone of  " ").

[dreman9999]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

They are an uncontroled asset of the reapers in away. Just because the reapers can influence them, does not mean they are with the reapers. It just means can get another enemy to fight another enemy.

Or turn it around: the Reapers are an uncontrolled asset to Cerberus. The Reapers fight the same people Cerberus fights, and Cerberus probably sees itself better off with each Homeworld falling to Reaper control.

Strange that...

Not really: it's called being a co-belligerant, as opposed to being an ally. The enemy of my enemy is my enemy's enemy, nothing more and nothing less.


Cerberus's exact orientation and relationship in the Reaper War is most accurately called 'opportunism.'  It takes advantage of the chaos of the Reapers for its own ends, not for the purpose of the Reapers (which Cerberus ultimately wants to dominate).

But that also can be another form of inflence by the reapers. Get cerberus to consider everyone an enemy including the reapers and havethem hinder the people the reapers want to harvest.

[balance5050]

mauro2222 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

He needs the Citadel and the Reapers together... he's still a third party in this conflict and the reapers his enemy.

But that doen't stop him from being influced by the reapers via indoctrination.

Assuming he is indoctrinated in the first place. Crazy nuts is another explanation, lust for power another.
In my case he's not indoctrinated, that's why he is a third party and not an asset.

Yeah but indoctrination makes so much sense and it's heavily foreshadowed, to assume anything else is being ignorant to the story that bioware is telling.

Modifié par balance5050, 21 mai 2012 - 06:31 .

[Dean_the_Young]

balance5050 wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...


Or to fall to them: Doctor Kenson in Arrival.

Dr. Kenson "Why couldn't you just stay asleep Shepard?"

Hackett "You feeling better?"

Shep " No more visions, if that's what you mean"

I honestly can't tell what you think you're making a point of.

[Dean_the_Young]

balance5050 wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

They are an uncontroled asset of the reapers in away. Just because the reapers can influence them, does not mean they are with the reapers. It just means can get another enemy to fight another enemy.

Or turn it around: the Reapers are an uncontrolled asset to Cerberus. The Reapers fight the same people Cerberus fights, and Cerberus probably sees itself better off with each Homeworld falling to Reaper control.

Strange that...

Not really: it's called being a co-belligerant, as opposed to being an ally. The enemy of my enemy is my enemy's enemy, nothing more and nothing less.


Cerberus's exact orientation and relationship in the Reaper War is most accurately called 'opportunism.'  It takes advantage of the chaos of the Reapers for its own ends, not for the purpose of the Reapers (which Cerberus ultimately wants to dominate).

Anyone who isn't enemies with the reapers are fools or indoctrinated.

Cerberus is enemies with the Reapers: it's focusing on ways it feels are best for overcoming the threat (Control), rather than what TIM feels wouldn't work (outright resistance).

[dreman9999]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...


Or to fall to them: Doctor Kenson in Arrival.

Dr. Kenson "Why couldn't you just stay asleep Shepard?"

Hackett "You feeling better?"

Shep " No more visions, if that's what you mean"

I honestly can't tell what you think you're making a point of.

He saying that Arrival doubled as a trap for Shepard to try to indoctrinate him.

[Stokie Stallion]

The I.T is ****** poor it makes a worse story and pointless game. No your not clever and i'd consider it sub par explanation with the ending

[balance5050]

mauro2222 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

I fthe reapers were his enemy he would want to destroy them, not prevent Shepard from destroying them.

They are a threat to "humanity", but they are also a weapon to "defend" - "humanity" (I love the suggestive tone of  " ").

And that's why TIM and the reapers are idiots because they don't understand the strength of putting aside differences and uniting under a common goal.

[mauro2222]

balance5050 wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

He needs the Citadel and the Reapers together... he's still a third party in this conflict and the reapers his enemy.

But that doen't stop him from being influced by the reapers via indoctrination.

Assuming he is indoctrinated in the first place. Crazy nuts is another explanation, lust for power another.
In my case he's not indoctrinated, that's why he is a third party and not an asset.

Yeah but indoctrination makes so much sense and it's heavily foreshadowed, to assume anything else is being ignorant to the story that bioware is telling.

No darling, this theory is being ignorant to the change of writers, change of main plot (3 times), and change of characters.

[mauro2222]

balance5050 wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

I fthe reapers were his enemy he would want to destroy them, not prevent Shepard from destroying them.

They are a threat to "humanity", but they are also a weapon to "defend" - "humanity" (I love the suggestive tone of  " ").

And that's why TIM and the reapers are idiots because they don't understand the strength of putting aside differences and uniting under a common goal.

The reapers don't want Control... what the hell are you talking about?

[Dean_the_Young]

dreman9999 wrote...

But that also can be another form of inflence by the reapers. Get cerberus to consider everyone an enemy including the reapers and havethem hinder the people the reapers want to harvest.

And Shepard's plan to gather everyone for a conventional liberation of Earth could be a form of influence by the Reapers, leading everyone into a conventional defeat.

Could. Wasn't.

Cerberus's antagonism in ME3 is never implied to be because it is controlled by the Reapers, as opposed to its own choice. TIM succumbs to the Reapers after Mars, not before.

[balance5050]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

They are an uncontroled asset of the reapers in away. Just because the reapers can influence them, does not mean they are with the reapers. It just means can get another enemy to fight another enemy.

Or turn it around: the Reapers are an uncontrolled asset to Cerberus. The Reapers fight the same people Cerberus fights, and Cerberus probably sees itself better off with each Homeworld falling to Reaper control.

Strange that...

Not really: it's called being a co-belligerant, as opposed to being an ally. The enemy of my enemy is my enemy's enemy, nothing more and nothing less.


Cerberus's exact orientation and relationship in the Reaper War is most accurately called 'opportunism.'  It takes advantage of the chaos of the Reapers for its own ends, not for the purpose of the Reapers (which Cerberus ultimately wants to dominate).

Anyone who isn't enemies with the reapers are fools or indoctrinated.

Cerberus is enemies with the Reapers: it's focusing on ways it feels are best for overcoming the threat (Control), rather than what TIM feels wouldn't work (outright resistance).

Right, because it's worked out so good for everyone else who wanted control right?

People who wanted to control the reapers and became indoctrinated -846546845

People who actually controlled the reapers - 0

Probabiltity says TIM is wrong and indoctrinated.

[Dean_the_Young]

dreman9999 wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...


Or to fall to them: Doctor Kenson in Arrival.

Dr. Kenson "Why couldn't you just stay asleep Shepard?"

Hackett "You feeling better?"

Shep " No more visions, if that's what you mean"

I honestly can't tell what you think you're making a point of.

He saying that Arrival doubled as a trap for Shepard to try to indoctrinate him.

Then he's doing a horrible job of it, because Kenson didn't even know Shepard was coming until Shepard had already broken into the Batarian prison.

Linking two unrelated conversations also is a poor job of justification.

[balance5050]

mauro2222 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

I fthe reapers were his enemy he would want to destroy them, not prevent Shepard from destroying them.

They are a threat to "humanity", but they are also a weapon to "defend" - "humanity" (I love the suggestive tone of  " ").

And that's why TIM and the reapers are idiots because they don't understand the strength of putting aside differences and uniting under a common goal.

The reapers don't want Control... what the hell are you talking about?

Uhm, they control every asspect of our evoluition, our past and our future, they already are in control and thats why contorl isa reaper creedo that will get you to start thinking like them.

[llbountyhunter]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

1. not possible, or has not been revealed anywhere else in the game.

It was the point of the comic itself: that TIM was an aberation to the artifact.

It was never a point in the games because TIM being indoctrinated was never a point until the end of ME3.

2. yes, but thats not what im saying.

If TIM were being indoctrinated from the start, it would be via his implants, the means by which the artifact controls its thralls. TIM never loses his implants.

3. ?

On the last floor of the Cerberus Head Quarters, there's a video recording of TIM having one of his doctors implant himself with Reaper technology, the stuff we see on his face in the ending.

1/2. thank you for proving my point. 

3.correct.