702 réponses à ce sujet

[balance5050]

mauro2222 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

He needs the Citadel and the Reapers together... he's still a third party in this conflict and the reapers his enemy.

But that doen't stop him from being influced by the reapers via indoctrination.

Assuming he is indoctrinated in the first place. Crazy nuts is another explanation, lust for power another.
In my case he's not indoctrinated, that's why he is a third party and not an asset.

Yeah but indoctrination makes so much sense and it's heavily foreshadowed, to assume anything else is being ignorant to the story that bioware is telling.

No darling, this theory is being ignorant to the change of writers, change of main plot (3 times), and change of characters.

Actually it holds true to the vision that they were going for since early ME3 development began.

[EricHVela]

IT is compelling and well-thought, and I would actually like it to be true despite the fact that IT pulls "facts" from things I see as merely "sloppy" and not intended.

However, it is not in EA's best interest to let fans even think that fans have any power over (re)development of their games. It does not matter if BW had originally intended something along the lines of IT. Any suspicion that BW implemented IT or any other new ending because the fans demanded it is simply out of the question.

They must go with the current endings as the real endings, or else, they will open up a whole new can of worms on all future projects. If Mass Effect is to be sacrificed by this, so be it. That's just business, sadly.

Modifié par ReggarBlane, 21 mai 2012 - 06:41 .

[Dean_the_Young]

balance5050 wrote...

Right, because it's worked out so good for everyone else who wanted control right?

People who wanted to control the reapers and became indoctrinated -846546845

People who actually controlled the reapers - 0

Replace 'control' for 'destroy', and you'd have the same success rate... and even greater indoctrination rates, because the Reapers indoctrinate everyone they can regardless of ideology. No cycle has actually controlled the Reapers, but no cycle has destroyed the Reapers either.

The first cycle to do either path successfully and without being indoctrinated and wiped out will be the first.

Probabiltity says TIM is wrong and indoctrinated.

Fortunately for the galaxy, probabilities are not the same as possibilities. TIM was indoctrinated afterwards... but TIM was also correct before his indoctrination. You can take control of the Reapers.

[Malditor]

balance5050 wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

I fthe reapers were his enemy he would want to destroy them, not prevent Shepard from destroying them.

They are a threat to "humanity", but they are also a weapon to "defend" - "humanity" (I love the suggestive tone of  " ").

And that's why TIM and the reapers are idiots because they don't understand the strength of putting aside differences and uniting under a common goal.

The reapers don't want Control... what the hell are you talking about?

Uhm, they control every asspect of our evoluition, our past and our future, they already are in control and thats why contorl isa reaper creedo that will get you to start thinking like them.

They don't control every aspect of our evolution, just the path we take when it comes to technological advances in space travel and connecting with the rest of the universe's species.

[mauro2222]

balance5050 wrote...

Uhm, they control every asspect of our evoluition, our past and our future, they already are in control and thats why contorl isa reaper creedo that will get you to start thinking like them.

What the hell...?

They do not control every aspect of our evolution, just the "next" step.
The Reapers' main objective is to defend organics from a technological singularity... nothing more.
Cerberus wants to use the Reapers as tools, weapons to achieve power in the galaxy... nothing more.

[dreman9999]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

But that also can be another form of inflence by the reapers. Get cerberus to consider everyone an enemy including the reapers and havethem hinder the people the reapers want to harvest.

And Shepard's plan to gather everyone for a conventional liberation of Earth could be a form of influence by the Reapers, leading everyone into a conventional defeat.

Could. Wasn't.

Cerberus's antagonism in ME3 is never implied to be because it is controlled by the Reapers, as opposed to its own choice. TIM succumbs to the Reapers after Mars, not before.

Yes, the beings who want to perserve organics in reaper form want to trick organics to joining together, which allows the organic to be better tat kill reapers which they us to perserve organics, so that they can perseve organics...
How does that make sense....It like yoursay they are willing to risk the lost of the many reaper they used to perseve organics to make a few reapers.That's coming out less then what they had and goes ageint their goal.

[balance5050]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Right, because it's worked out so good for everyone else who wanted control right?

People who wanted to control the reapers and became indoctrinated -846546845

People who actually controlled the reapers - 0

Replace 'control' for 'destroy', and you'd have the same success rate... and even greater indoctrination rates, because the Reapers indoctrinate everyone they can regardless of ideology. No cycle has actually controlled the Reapers, but no cycle has destroyed the Reapers either.

The first cycle to do either path successfully and without being indoctrinated and wiped out will be the first.

Probabiltity says TIM is wrong and indoctrinated.

Fortunately for the galaxy, probabilities are not the same as possibilities. TIM was indoctrinated afterwards... but TIM was also correct before his indoctrination. You can take control of the Reapers.

People who want to destroy the reapers aren't indoctrinated though, that's my point. If you want anything from the reapers besides their destruction you leave you psyche open to reaper influence.

[The Night Mammoth]

balance5050 wrote...

Uhm, they control every asspect of our evoluition, our past and our future, they already are in control and thats why contorl isa reaper creedo that will get you to start thinking like them.

No, they don't.

At best they manipulate the rough technological path civilization takes in terms on galactic travel. 

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 21 mai 2012 - 06:43 .

[Dean_the_Young]

balance5050 wrote...

"We need to hurry, the troops are already hearing voices."

...you do realize what Project Sanctuary achieved, yes?

[balance5050]

mauro2222 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Uhm, they control every asspect of our evoluition, our past and our future, they already are in control and thats why contorl isa reaper creedo that will get you to start thinking like them.

What the hell...?

They do not control every aspect of our evolution, just the "next" step.
The Reapers' main objective is to defend organics from a technological singularity... nothing more.
Cerberus wants to use the Reapers as tools, weapons to achieve power in the galaxy... nothing more.

Oh you actually believe starkid? Well aren't you just cute!

[mauro2222]

balance5050 wrote...

Actually it holds true to the vision that they were going for since early ME3 development began.

And...? You just proved my point.

[Bill Casey]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Fortunately for the galaxy, probabilities are not the same as possibilities. TIM was indoctrinated afterwards... but TIM was also correct before his indoctrination. You can take control of the Reapers.

Indoctrination means you are embued with a belief structure, though...
The Reapers alter people's beliefs to suit their needs...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 21 mai 2012 - 06:45 .

[dreman9999]

mauro2222 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Uhm, they control every asspect of our evoluition, our past and our future, they already are in control and thats why contorl isa reaper creedo that will get you to start thinking like them.

What the hell...?

They do not control every aspect of our evolution, just the "next" step.
The Reapers' main objective is to defend organics from a technological singularity... nothing more.
Cerberus wants to use the Reapers as tools, weapons to achieve power in the galaxy... nothing more.

The reaper goal is to stop the conflict of organics and synthetic not protect organics.
Also, they do want to control organic evolution...That's why the make organics into reaper...To force evolution.

[balance5050]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

"We need to hurry, the troops are already hearing voices."

...you do realize what Project Sanctuary achieved, yes?

Yep, they were trying to gain control of the reapers forces.

[llbountyhunter]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Right, because it's worked out so good for everyone else who wanted control right?

People who wanted to control the reapers and became indoctrinated -846546845

People who actually controlled the reapers - 0

Replace 'control' for 'destroy', and you'd have the same success rate... and even greater indoctrination rates, because the Reapers indoctrinate everyone they can regardless of ideology. No cycle has actually controlled the Reapers, but no cycle has destroyed the Reapers either.

The first cycle to do either path successfully and without being indoctrinated and wiped out will be the first.

Probabiltity says TIM is wrong and indoctrinated.

Fortunately for the galaxy, probabilities are not the same as possibilities. TIM was indoctrinated afterwards... but TIM was also correct before his indoctrination. You can take control of the Reapers.

actually nobody who has wanted to destroy the reapers ever got colse enough to do so, while thousands others who wanted to control them have . so the success rate is nowhere near the same.

[dreman9999]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

"We need to hurry, the troops are already hearing voices."

...you do realize what Project Sanctuary achieved, yes?

Do you realise TIM still ended up indoctrinated?

[Dean_the_Young]

dreman9999 wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

actually, while your point makes sense, the game makes it seem like all indoctrinated agents do not want to destroy the reapers.

They don't have to actually want to destroy the Reapers while under indoctrination. They can simply lie: privately go 'yay Reapers!' while viewing what they do as a necessary part of that glory.

every single person indoctrinated we encounter, either wants to use them, or to unite with them.

Or to fall to them: Doctor Kenson in Arrival.

1.Which is why their is a chance TIM can be indoctriated...

No, because we have the books and comics to know TIM's own thoughts on the matter.

Hint: he's not lying in his motivations.

2.Kenson wanted to unite with them and revere them.

Kenson wanted various things at different points, and she was willing to do whatever the Reapers wanted her to do.

Indoctrination =/= public sycophantry.

[balance5050]

The cavalry appears to have arrived...

[Dean_the_Young]

dreman9999 wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

"We need to hurry, the troops are already hearing voices."

...you do realize what Project Sanctuary achieved, yes?

Do you realise TIM still ended up indoctrinated?

You do realize that you're jumping into conversations you aren't actually tracking, don't you?

TIM wasn't using trooper implants.

[mauro2222]

balance5050 wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Uhm, they control every asspect of our evoluition, our past and our future, they already are in control and thats why contorl isa reaper creedo that will get you to start thinking like them.

What the hell...?

They do not control every aspect of our evolution, just the "next" step.
The Reapers' main objective is to defend organics from a technological singularity... nothing more.
Cerberus wants to use the Reapers as tools, weapons to achieve power in the galaxy... nothing more.

Oh you actually believe starkid? Well aren't you just cute!

Yes, he has no reason to lie about his purpose... if he lies with the options he gives you, is another story.
And believe me, is no more cute than "Cerberus motives = Reapers motives".

[llbountyhunter]

ReggarBlane wrote...

IT is compelling and well-thought, and I would actually like it to be true despite the fact that IT pulls "facts" from things I see as merely "sloppy" and not intended.

However, it is not in EA's best interest to let fans even think that fans have any power over (re)development of their games. It does not matter if BW had originally intended something along the lines of IT. Any suspicion that BW implemented IT or any other new ending because the fans demanded it is simply out of the question.

They must go with the current endings as the real endings, or else, they will open up a whole new can of worms on all future projects. If Mass Effect is to be sacrificed by this, so be it. That's just business, sadly.

casy said they co-develope the story with alot of player feedback. they even had poll to let the people deside the characters and how fem-shep looks.

point moot.

[The Night Mammoth]

dreman9999 wrote...
The reaper goal is to stop the conflict of organics and synthetic not protect organics.

It's to protect organic life as whole from annihilation at the hands of synthetics.

Well, that's what the Catalyst proposes, but you'd be insane to believe it. 

Also, they do want to control organic evolution...That's why the make organics into reaper...To force evolution.

Eh.................. what? 

No, they don't want the control organic evolution. If they did; they would. 

Making Reapers from organics is apparently their way of saving the genetic 'essence' of a species, so not everything about them is completely wiped out. 

Still doesn't excuse them committing genocide. 

[balance5050]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

"We need to hurry, the troops are already hearing voices."

...you do realize what Project Sanctuary achieved, yes?

Do you realise TIM still ended up indoctrinated?

You do realize that you're jumping into conversations you aren't actually tracking, don't you?

TIM wasn't using trooper implants.

Uhm, he still ended up indoctrinated no matter what he was using.

[dreman9999]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...


Or to fall to them: Doctor Kenson in Arrival.

Dr. Kenson "Why couldn't you just stay asleep Shepard?"

Hackett "You feeling better?"

Shep " No more visions, if that's what you mean"

I honestly can't tell what you think you're making a point of.

He saying that Arrival doubled as a trap for Shepard to try to indoctrinate him.

Then he's doing a horrible job of it, because Kenson didn't even know Shepard was coming until Shepard had already broken into the Batarian prison.

Linking two unrelated conversations also is a poor job of justification.

It has nothing to do with what Kenson know or doen't know ...She is a pawn. It's basedon what the reapers now. They layed the trap knowing Shepard would come. They know that if you say "reaper invasion" shepard will come running.

[Malditor]

dreman9999 wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Uhm, they control every asspect of our evoluition, our past and our future, they already are in control and thats why contorl isa reaper creedo that will get you to start thinking like them.

What the hell...?

They do not control every aspect of our evolution, just the "next" step.
The Reapers' main objective is to defend organics from a technological singularity... nothing more.
Cerberus wants to use the Reapers as tools, weapons to achieve power in the galaxy... nothing more.

The reaper goal is to stop the conflict of organics and synthetic not protect organics.
Also, they do want to control organic evolution...That's why the make organics into reaper...To force evolution.

That's not forced evolution, that's assimilation. Different things.