702 réponses à ce sujet

[Lookout1390]

Aaleel wrote...

Lookout1390 wrote...

Vapaä wrote...

Lookout1390 wrote...

You were hit with a Reaper device out in the open in The Arrival.

That isn't canon

You've been around countless indoctrinated people, you've been inside a Reaper.

Indoctrinated people dont indoctrinate other people

Shepard has spent an awful lot of time being around Reaper tech/devices.

Just 1 hour, split between the derelict reaper and the human reaper, that's it

1. Yes it is

2. Yes they can, go back and play ME1

3. [Citation Needed]

So when the game says Hackett sent in a squad of Commandos to do the task becaue Shepard didn't, it's lying?  Arrival happening is canon, but Shepard being there is not.

But did you play Arrival? If you did then this is not the case. It still doesn't disprove the fact that you have spent ALOT of time around Reaper tech/devices.

[Aaleel]

Lookout1390 wrote...

But did you play Arrival? If you did then this is not the case. It still doesn't disprove the fact that you have spent ALOT of time around Reaper tech/devices.

Depends on the playthrough.  The one I used for ME3, no because all my saves didn't show up for import.  But like I said earlier, I use Garrus a lot, and almost every exposure to reaper tech that Shepard had Garrus pretty much had to, and no squadmates have come up indoctrinated.  

Which honestly was a missed chance by Bioware, I really expected to be betrayed by an indoctrinated squadmate, or recurring NPC. 

Modifié par Aaleel, 20 mai 2012 - 09:20 .

[Wabajakka]

I think people need to go back and look what BW said about Arrival.

It is in fact considered to be canon.

It doesn't even matter though, Shepard has in fact been around a lot of Reaper tech regardless of non-mandatory Reaper tech related side quests.

Modifié par Orange Tee, 20 mai 2012 - 09:21 .

[The Vanquished1]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

I frankly don't care how plausible the idea is, I think the idea of implementing I.T. is needlessly cruel, greedy, and stupid. If I.T. turned out to be correct and Bioware intentionally released an unfinished product that they let sit for 3 months without so much as a confirmation, it would the last straw for me.

My brother always got on my case for buying ME DLC and about how the companies were just price gouging to nickel and dime me out of more money. I didn't care because I saw it as a way to extend my experience.

If I.T. turned out to be correct it would immediately prove all my brother's claims correct as well. I would have been lied to and sold an incomplete product for $80 and I would immediately stop buying anything from Bioware.

I think the entire idea is horrendous and emblematic of everything wrong with this industry. I do not want it to be true, I really don't care how plausible it is.

I agree wholeheartedly.  It's a cr*ppy deal for everybody.  I like to think that this came about because they couldn't finish the whole bit so they just did the indoc part and took the risk.. It's a stupid risk, but the payoff could be Huge, but like you said, it is stupid and needlessly cruel to some extent.  Just look how these boards are on fire with all kinds of bile and every grievance and fantasy imaginable.  It's a hoot.  Well might as well make the most out of it.

[Vapaa]

Lookout1390 wrote...

1. Yes it is

2. Yes they can, go back and play ME1

3. [Citation Needed]

1 No it's not

2 [Citation needed]

3 See below

Elysar wrote...

Lets count contacts with reaper tech by shepard, over ~3years.
ME1:
-Saren's base on Virmire - like whole pluton of STG is being indoctrinated there, sovereign him self, and some reaper tech
-Citadel - Finale of ME1 lets say shep is under sovereign for good hour or 2 while he fights geth on his way to the tower. Also sovereign/saren skeleton.
ME2:
-Cerberus reconstructed Shep using reaper tech - Thee are like 3 characters in lore with reaper tech in them Kai Leng, his buddy from the books, and shep. 2/3 of them were indoctrinated.
-Derelict reaper.
-Collectors ship/base.
-Object Rho (Optionally).
ME3:
-2 reapers + the ones on earth.
-Tech in rachni lair.
-Some tech in ardat yakshi monastery.
-Cerberus base - place filled with this tech.

Let's count:

ME1:

Saren base 30min
Citadel: 2 hours

ME2:

Where it is stated that Shepard was reconstructed with true reper tech ? (read: nanite-based tech)
Derelect reaper: 1 hour
Collector ship/base: 1h30 hour
Arrival: avoidable

ME3:

Earth: 10 minutes
Rachni's lair, A-Y yakshi monestary: avoidable
Cerberus base: 2 hours

So 7 hours and 10 minutes worth of various degrees of reaper tech exposure in 3 years....all indoctrinated characters have began to loose their mind after DAYS of continous exposure

Modifié par Vapaä, 20 mai 2012 - 09:22 .

[Lookout1390]

Aaleel wrote...

Lookout1390 wrote...

But did you play Arrival? If you did then this is not the case. It still doesn't disprove the fact that you have spent ALOT of time around Reaper tech/devices.

Depends on the playthrough.  The one I used for ME3, no because all my saves didn't show up for import.  But like I said earlier, I use Garrus a lot, and almost every exposure to reaper tech that Shepard had Garrus pretty much had to, and no squadmates have come up indoctrinated.  

Which honestly was a missed chance by Bioware, I really expected to be betrayed by an indoctrinated squadmate, or recurring NPC. 

Quality Bioware writing.

Didn't realize everyone on the Normandy is given free plot-armor.

I should have the rest of the galaxy line up and step inside.

[pharsti]

Yes, yes i do think they wouldnt adress it, nor do i think there is a need to adress how so many (because its not only Shepard, not by a long shot) were not affected by it.
And even if, for some inane reason, they decided to dwelve into it, they would have done so in an appropriate way, not in a half assed nonsensical way like the IT takes it, and never during the end game. Or at least, id like to believe no one is a bad enough writer to come up with that.... at least... no one thats employed as a writer.... we all know fanfic goes out of control >_>

And this whole "AntiIT" thing has to stop, you believe in it, fine, im not gonna stand here and tell you all the holes in your "theory", you are free to believe in it, and i actually approve of the "speculation" (i know i had a blast laughing seeing and reading all about the IT XD), the problem begins when those who "believe" in it want to push their speculations as fact and that everyone should accept it, dont tell me i have to believe in it, cause im not that into denial.

[EsterCloat]

Lookout1390 wrote...


...Arrival can only happen because of Shepard. Unless Hackett called on somebody else to do the job...

You were inside a Reaper, not a reaper device, an ACTUAL Reaper. That's about as strong as the influence of indoctrination gets.

Still don't see enough counter-evidence to show Shepard being immune to indoctrination, or there not atleast signs/attempts of it.

Unless you want to accept the whole 'plot armor' thing Bioware has apparently given us, then go for it.

HE DOES. If you start a new game or just plain don't do Arrival a commando unit does Arrival for you. It cannot be used as evidence. If IT people want their theory taken seriously then it must hold true in all scenarios, even in the scenario in which the minimum amount of Reaper exposure happens to Shepard which means no Arrival.

You're inside a Reaper for an hour tops. An hour is not enough to indoctrinate people. It take days, weeks for exceptionally strong willed individuals, to fall to indoctrination. Rana tested this using Sovereign himself as the indoctrination device. Which is a Reaper that wasn't dead.

He's not immune he just hasn't been around it enough to be indoctrinated. If he were, then winning would be impossible because once you're indoctrinated the only thing you can do as yourself is blow your brains out.

Shepard being indoctrinated and then subsequently "breaking out of it" would be a bigger asspull than just plain having Shepard not be around Reaper influences enough to be affected.

Modifié par EsterCloat, 20 mai 2012 - 09:25 .

[Lookout1390]

Vapaä wrote...

Lookout1390 wrote...

1. Yes it is

2. Yes they can, go back and play ME1

3. [Citation Needed]

1 No it's not

2 [Citation needed]

3 See below

Elysar wrote...

Lets count contacts with reaper tech by shepard, over ~3years.
ME1:
-Saren's base on Virmire - like whole pluton of STG is being indoctrinated there, sovereign him self, and some reaper tech
-Citadel - Finale of ME1 lets say shep is under sovereign for good hour or 2 while he fights geth on his way to the tower. Also sovereign/saren skeleton.
ME2:
-Cerberus reconstructed Shep using reaper tech - Thee are like 3 characters in lore with reaper tech in them Kai Leng, his buddy from the books, and shep. 2/3 of them were indoctrinated.
-Derelict reaper.
-Collectors ship/base.
-Object Rho (Optionally).
ME3:
-2 reapers + the ones on earth.
-Tech in rachni lair.
-Some tech in ardat yakshi monastery.
-Cerberus base - place filled with this tech.

Let's count:

ME1:

Saren base 30min
Citadel: 2 hours

ME2:

Where it is stated that Shepard was reconstructed with true reper tech ? (read: nanite-based tech)
Derelect reaper: 1 hour
Collector ship/base: 1h30 hour
Arrival: avoidable

ME3:

Earth: 10 minutes
Rachni's lair, A-Y yakshi monestary: avoidable
Cerberus base: 2 hours

So 7 hours and 10 minutes worth of various degrees of reaper tech exposure in 3 years....all indoctrinated characters have began to loose their mind after DAYS of continous exposure

All time assumed that has passed from the player's perspective.

Sorry, still not really any solid evidence to prove otherwise.

[Elysar]

Imho i wouldnt count gameplay time as it really would be, lets face it military operaion of that scale take a bit longer. Not all of them but still.
Also there was that asari scientist from Saren's base, in ME3 it came out she was indoctrinated. She probably didint spent that much time there either.

Modifié par Elysar, 20 mai 2012 - 09:24 .

[Lookout1390]

EsterCloat wrote...

Lookout1390 wrote...


...Arrival can only happen because of Shepard. Unless Hackett called on somebody else to do the job...

You were inside a Reaper, not a reaper device, an ACTUAL Reaper. That's about as strong as the influence of indoctrination gets.

Still don't see enough counter-evidence to show Shepard being immune to indoctrination, or there not atleast signs/attempts of it.

Unless you want to accept the whole 'plot armor' thing Bioware has apparently given us, then go for it.

HE DOES. If you start a new game or just plain don't do Arrival a commando unit does Arrival for you. It cannot be used as evidence.

You're inside a Reaper for an hour tops. An hour is not enough to indoctrinate people. It take days, weeks for exceptionally strong willed individuals, to fall to indoctrination. Rana tested this using Sovereign himself as the indoctrination device. Which is a Reaper that wasn't dead.

He's not immune he just hasn't been around it enough to be indoctrinated. If he were, then winning would be impossible because once you're indoctrinated the only thing you can do as yourself is blow your brains out.

Shepard being indoctrinated and then subsequently "breaking out of it" would be a bigger asspull than just plain having Shepard not be around Reaper influences enough to be affected.

Right, because a mystical child out of left field is all of a sudden the controller of the entire reaper fleet and is a 'part' of the citadel, and just because you managed to get to where he is (standing out in the open vacuum of space) he will give you 3 choices that are 90% identical, and don't make any sense at all.

You're right, IT just sound silly compared to that.

And IT is Shepard 'resisting' it and not giving into the Reapers. He never stopped being the target of indoctrination attempts.

Modifié par Lookout1390, 20 mai 2012 - 09:28 .

[Wabajakka]

I think people forget entirely about the Reaper tech that is literally on the Normandy as well...

[OH-UP-THIS!]

alec1898 wrote...

Riddle me this.

Why give Shepard the ability to destroy the reapers if he in turn breaks their hold on him?

Again as stated numerous time before.............................the destroy option is ONLY SYMBOLIC!!!

How little of an imagination, does it take to miss this?

[Wabajakka]

ohupthis wrote...

alec1898 wrote...

Riddle me this.

Why give Shepard the ability to destroy the reapers if he in turn breaks their hold on him?

Again as stated numerous time before.............................the destroy option is ONLY SYMBOLIC!!!

How little of an imagination, does it take to miss this?

Op isn't the brightest one either lol.

Same guy who said the shape of the Council's chamber from ME1 looking like a Reaper was definitive proof of the IT. 

Honestly we all need to stfu about this stuff and wait to see what happens.

Modifié par Orange Tee, 20 mai 2012 - 09:31 .

[EsterCloat]

Lookout1390 wrote...

Right, because a mystical child out of left field is all of a sudden the controller of the entire reaper fleet and is a 'part' of the citadel, and just because you managed to get to where he is (standing out in the open vacuum of space) he will give you 3 choices that are 90% identical, and don't make any sense at all.

You're right, IT just sound silly compared to that.

Did I say the ending we got was any better? Did I say the ending we got made more sense or wasn't silly? Do not put words in my mouth. I despise the ending we got but IT isn't any better.

[Aaleel]

Lookout1390 wrote...

Right, because a mystical child out of left field is all of a sudden the controller of the entire reaper fleet and is a 'part' of the citadel, and just because you managed to get to where he is (standing out in the open vacuum of space) he will give you 3 choices that are 90% identical, and don't make any sense at all.

You're right, IT just sound silly compared to that.

Well it wasn't completely out of left field.  Bioware made a conscious effort to try and and foreshadow the Catalyst on Thessia and say that the reapers were just a slave to the cycle like everyone else.

That's another reason why I don't think they planned the IT.  Why foreshadow something that doesn't exist.  It really seems like the ran out of time at the end, made up this Catalyst thing and tried to go back and toss in a foreshadow so it wasn't completely out of nowhere.

Modifié par Aaleel, 20 mai 2012 - 09:30 .

[The Vanquished1]

I distinctly remember a part in ME3 where Shepard was in the Geth Network and there were strands of Reaper Code he had to destroy to gain access to Geth memory banks. Just saying.

[OH-UP-THIS!]

jijeebo wrote...

None of the important good guys get indoctrinated... Plot armor covers enemy mind raping techniques y'know.

Oh brother...............you're a roommate of cavscout aren't ya?

[Lookout1390]

EsterCloat wrote...

Lookout1390 wrote...

Right, because a mystical child out of left field is all of a sudden the controller of the entire reaper fleet and is a 'part' of the citadel, and just because you managed to get to where he is (standing out in the open vacuum of space) he will give you 3 choices that are 90% identical, and don't make any sense at all.

You're right, IT just sound silly compared to that.

Did I say the ending we got was any better? Did I say the ending we got made more sense or wasn't silly? Do not put words in my mouth. I despise the ending we got but IT isn't any better.

I never said IT was without flaw, it has question to it as well. But between IT and the actual endings, I would have to go with IT.

Also people are being confused that IT ends the game, no, it just means it isn't over yet.

Why are people so rejective to the idea of more ME3 to come?

[Vapaa]

Lookout1390 wrote...

All time assumed that has passed from the player's perspective.

Sorry, still not really any solid evidence to prove otherwise.

I'm saying, the minimum measurable exposure to reaper tech is actually 7h10m over three years, that is FACT, do you have other FACTS to prove otherwise ?

Modifié par Vapaä, 20 mai 2012 - 09:34 .

[Lookout1390]

Vapaä wrote...

Lookout1390 wrote...

All time assumed that has passed from the player's perspective.

Sorry, still not really any solid evidence to prove otherwise.

I'm saying, the minimum measurable exposure to reaper tech is actually 7h10m, that is FACT, do you have other FACTS to prove otherwise ?

No that isn't 'fact'.

That's a time amount on a person's play-through.

Once again, time passed through a player's perspective.

[jijeebo]

ohupthis wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

None of the important good guys get indoctrinated... Plot armor covers enemy mind raping techniques y'know.

Oh brother...............you're a roommate of cavscout aren't ya?

I live on the moon in a giant shepards pie made of candyfloss... So no.

[EsterCloat]

Lookout1390 wrote...

I never said IT was without flaw, it has question to it as well. But between IT and the actual endings, I would have to go with IT.

Also people are being confused that IT ends the game, no, it just means it isn't over yet.

Why are people so rejective to the idea of more ME3 to come?

Because some people don't believe in something just because they want it to be true.

[I.leary]

Luck.

Not the most brilliant explanation, I know, but do remember that in DA:O your entire party bathes in darkspawn blood 24/7 and yet they never get corrupted, while minor characters turn into ghouls by getting stared at by hurlocks.

In short, yes, I think they'd end the series without adressing that, as they have similarly done in the past.

[Seboist]

Lookout1390 wrote...

IT was a nicely done theory, with alot of supporting evidence.

Unfortunately the current state of Bioware shows that they are too incompetent to pull off something like IT.

+1

The crucible and "coup" plots are moronic as hell.