308 réponses à ce sujet

[ardias89]

London calling to the imitation zone

Forget it, brother, you can go it alone

London calling to the zombies of death

Quit holding out, and draw another breath

London calling, and I don't wanna shout

But while we were talking, I saw you nodding out

London calling, see we ain't got no high

Except for that one with the yellowy eyes


This text is interresting. If i understand it correctly it is a desciption of the scene after Shepards been hit by the beam!

[DukeOfNukes]

Rifneno wrote...

I knew all I needed to know the first time I say you whining about how you hate ITers for being apologists. So I'm showing you the same respect you've shown us: none. BW doesn't need apologists because they didn't screw up. Oh, they misjudged the fans' reactions but I'd say the fact they didn't anticipate the community throwing a temper tantrum big enough to get on major news agencies or complaining to the FTC isn't a screw up their part. It's a screw up on the fans' part. You need an apologist.

You're right though, not everyone will believe IT was intended if they reveal it so. Then again, not everyone believes Elvis is dead. And don't flatter yourself by saying there's a difference.

People that don't believe in the IT were insulted for ever doubting that BioWare was anything less that an all-knowing company that planned out everything from the get go. I called the 3 people saying so apologists. But you're right...they aren't apologists, they're sychophant's.

I don't need anyone to apologize for me, as I've done nothing wrong. Doubting BioWare is not the unholy crime that a lot of you seem to think. They have failed me before, and undoubtedly will do so more in the future...even if the majority of their games in the future are amazing, there's bound to be a few stinkers in there.

Are you REALLY equating not believing the IT is real with believing Elvis is still alive? If you tell me to write a story, and then 3 months later, I turn in that story...I can't run around claiming the story was my idea all along. That's EXACTLY what you're proposing. BioWare had more than 2 months to claim the idea as their own, and they've been silent about it.

[ChickenMan77]

If Bioware is taking writing cues from the Clash does that mean we can..Rock the Casbah!!!! in the EC?

Modifié par ChickenMan77, 21 mai 2012 - 07:04 .

[DukeOfNukes]

Rifneno wrote...

It also had "First Matrix ending" written on the scrap of paper.  A movie that ended with the main character being given a choice between blue, which would put him in blissful ignorant dreamland, or red, which would help bring him back to reality.  But I'm sure that doesn't mean anything. 

That's not how the first Matrix ended...that's probably 30 minutes into the movie.

The movie "ended" with him dying, being resurrected "by love", saying "no" and stopping bullets, and then jumping into an Agents body and exploding him from the inside before waking up in the real world and making out with Trinity. He then picks up a phone and says "I'm going to show them what the world would be like without you"...and then he flies over a 50 story building.

[ardias89]

DukeOfNukes wrote...

Interesting if true, but as I've said (and heard said) elsewhere, the evidence we've seen since release just plain points to the idea that BioWare didn't put enough thought into the ending for this to be the case.

What's sad is that, no matter what, this cannot be verified at this point. If BioWare uses the IT, there's no way they can convince everyone that it's what they intended all along. Their silence, and the fact that they actually had to recall in the voice talent, suggests that the ending we saw is what they had intended all along.

You have a point sir.

[BaneTheSpecTRe]

DukeOfNukes wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

It also had "First Matrix ending" written on the scrap of paper.  A movie that ended with the main character being given a choice between blue, which would put him in blissful ignorant dreamland, or red, which would help bring him back to reality.  But I'm sure that doesn't mean anything. 

That's not how the first Matrix ended...that's probably 30 minutes into the movie.

The movie "ended" with him dying, being resurrected "by love", saying "no" and stopping bullets, and then jumping into an Agents body and exploding him from the inside before waking up in the real world and making out with Trinity. He then picks up a phone and says "I'm going to show them what the world would be like without you"...and then he flies over a 50 story building.

I love the Matrix, and think the ending of the first was pretty cool, and yet your description is making me laugh so hard, i may never stop.  In other words:
brb, lol'ing forever.

[Elyiia]

DukeOfNukes wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

It also had "First Matrix ending" written on the scrap of paper.  A movie that ended with the main character being given a choice between blue, which would put him in blissful ignorant dreamland, or red, which would help bring him back to reality.  But I'm sure that doesn't mean anything. 

That's not how the first Matrix ended...that's probably 30 minutes into the movie.

The movie "ended" with him dying, being resurrected "by love", saying "no" and stopping bullets, and then jumping into an Agents body and exploding him from the inside before waking up in the real world and making out with Trinity. He then picks up a phone and says "I'm going to show them what the world would be like without you"...and then he flies over a 50 story building.

I could go for a Mass Effect version of this. Because it's the god damn Shepard.

[Destructorlio]

DukeOfNukes wrote...

The movie "ended" with him dying, being resurrected "by love", saying "no" and stopping bullets, and then jumping into an Agents body and exploding him from the inside before waking up in the real world and making out with Trinity. He then picks up a phone and says "I'm going to show them what the world would be like without you"...and then he flies over a 50 story building.

Yeah but his realization at the end of the Matrix that allows him to do all this is that... nothing is real.

[RavenEyry]

I think it's interesting that some people use Occam's razor to 'prove' IT wrong, when to me IT is the simplest explanation so it just reinforces my belief.

[DJBare]

jsadalia wrote...

Fingertrip wrote...

Oh look, we've already got trolls and delusional anti-IT rejecters. Don't mind them to much, they're new to the franchise.

This is exactly the kind of zealotry that frustrates so many about IT fans.  You don't know everything.  You don't know you're right.  The great majority of those who disagree with you are neither new to the franchise nor delusional.

Being a supporter of I.T myself I agree with jsadalia, but I also see the same zealotry from both sides, everyone seems to think they know Biowares plans the way they post, now unless you are a Bioware employee(and this goes for both sides) with inside information, then I cannot see how anyone can state things like they know what Bioware has planned.

[GigaTheToast]

Just when I though I got out, you guys keep pulling me back in!

[TSA_383]

DukeOfNukes wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

It also had "First Matrix ending" written on the scrap of paper.  A movie that ended with the main character being given a choice between blue, which would put him in blissful ignorant dreamland, or red, which would help bring him back to reality.  But I'm sure that doesn't mean anything. 

That's not how the first Matrix ended...that's probably 30 minutes into the movie.

The movie "ended" with him dying, being resurrected "by love", saying "no" and stopping bullets, and then jumping into an Agents body and exploding him from the inside before waking up in the real world and making out with Trinity. He then picks up a phone and says "I'm going to show them what the world would be like without you"...and then he flies over a 50 story building.

Yep, it's the ending of the Matrix Reloaded (in which Neo finds "The Source", a device they don't fully understand but believe will end the war with the machines, which turns out to be an elaborate trick to get Neo to come to them) that they really copy-pasted:



Also yeah, now that we've got screenshots of that planet in-game maybe it's not that after all - also by mass iron is the most common element on earth so it'd make sense as an earth reference too.

Two things still intrigue me though, number three, which I never really explained in the first place (it didn't make any sense in the context of a regular ME3 announcement anyway), and the red herring.
I still think, given the context, that it could form the basis of a clue, but the original planet reasoning's a bit off, I'll edit the OP to reflect this.

Modifié par TSA_383, 21 mai 2012 - 09:00 .

[RavenEyry]

The ending to the first Matrix? What that bit where Neo shows a bunch of people the world isn't real? Nope, can't relate to IT at all.

[TSA_383]

RavenEyry wrote...

The ending to the first Matrix? What that bit where Neo shows a bunch of people the world isn't real? Nope, can't relate to IT at all.

This.
Although from the notes thing I'm starting to think the bigger one is "Brave New World".
Unfortunately outside of people who were railroaded into disinterestedly reading it in high school not a lot of people have read it.

[Comguard2]

And what about the Weekes-Post? It clearly states that the ending we saw was their intended ending. In addition, final hours app showed that they decided for the ending pretty late in the development process.

The hint with Aequitas most probably meant nothing. Just think about other hints they gave and that meant nothing:
Beings of light > never mentioned again
VI-ship > never mentioned again

Why should Aequitas be different?

[wicked_being]

Interesting clues. The problem is this was way all the way back in 2010. They said a lot of things that never came true, even post-gold. So no matter how great this discovery is, chances are these clues don't mean anything anymore.

[MaximizedAction]

RavenEyry wrote...

I think it's interesting that some people use Occam's razor to 'prove' IT wrong, when to me IT is the simplest explanation so it just reinforces my belief.

Anti-IT will disagree, but in fact IT is the simplest explaination.
Simply because IT is based merely on the observations in-game, i.e. on the evidence at hand.
Bioware ****-Theory doesn't have direct evidence and is a more subjective interpretation.

Also IT is only what Bioware wanted us to do, as Casey and Ray stated in their messages: They wanted to wait for more people to finish the game and do own research. The latter brought up IT.

wicked_being wrote...

Interesting clues. The problem is
this was way all the way back in 2010. They said a lot of things that
never came true, even post-gold. So no matter how great this discovery
is, chances are these clues don't mean anything anymore.

They also said this. Now tell me that was 'just another random' statement back in summer 2011...

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 21 mai 2012 - 09:27 .

[CARL_DF90]

Hmm...odd.

[Candidate 88766]

Weren't these just hints as to what Bioware's latest game was before ME3 was announced?

The first two codes relate to mass and an effect on mass. Shouldn't have to explain further.

The second two narrow it down to England and then further to London, which is where the teaser trailer took place (at this point we had the first screenshot from the teaser, a man with a rifle in some ruins).

The final one, the 'red herring' was likely because people were attempting to make sense of the 'secret service' thing in the third image, and there were even people who became adamant that Bioware's new game was a sequel to Alpha Protocol, despite the screenshot showing the Incisor rifle.

[ichik]

Comguard2 wrote...

In addition, final hours app showed that they decided for the ending pretty late in the development process.

It stated only that they POLISHED it to the very final moment, they were deciding features and accents and exact scenes.

[wicked_being]

MaximizedAction wrote...

wicked_being wrote...

Interesting clues. The problem is
this was way all the way back in 2010. They said a lot of things that
never came true, even post-gold. So no matter how great this discovery
is, chances are these clues don't mean anything anymore.

They also said this. Now tell me that was 'just another random' statement back in summer 2011...

Ahh..the infamous "can" and "can't" video. Anyway, they said A LOT of things but a lot of things didn't come true in the end. Some people say those *points to pre-release quotes thread* were outright lies, devs say "development changes."

I'm not saying these set of clues are all lies nor will I say it will never happen. What I'm saying is that there's a very high chance that these things have been scrapped due to various constraints the dev team encountered.

[Vox Draco]

*shakes head* Usually I make fun of people claiming the moonlanding was fake, 911 is to blame on the jews or the government or that parts of the middle-ages are just made up by historians and never existed...

But now I see it can be actually fun. It amuses me to read all this, and...speculate? And if it would turn out to be real, damn I think I would laugh for a week! But that's just me and my weird humour, I guess...

Anyway, its fun, though I don't like the fanatical tone that often comes along with IT-supporters, as well as teh aggressiveness of Anti-ITlers. Its a discussion board. If you don't like the discussion stay away or don't get involved. I try the same with pro-synthesis/control-threads...

[Erield]

RavenEyry wrote...

I think it's interesting that some people use Occam's razor to 'prove' IT wrong, when to me IT is the simplest explanation so it just reinforces my belief.

1.  IT cannot be proved wrong based on the information we have.  IT cannot be proved correct based on the information we have.  Attemping to do one or the other is attempting to solve for x in the equation 4x+2y = fish.  There is enough circumstantial evidence to support the idea that the Reapers are attempting to control Shepard and that IT is true.  Personally, I find the evidence against to be stronger, but we might as well be arguing whether or not the universe is controlld by an undetectable flying spaghetti monster if you want an absolute answer. 

2.  Occam's razor:  "is a principle urging one to select among competing hypotheses that
which makes the fewest assumptions and thereby offers the simplest
explanation of the effect." [source: Wikipedia.]  Anti-IT theory makes two assumptions.  First, what is presented in the game is 'real' so far as we are concerned, in how it affects Shepard.  Second, perceived plot-holes and inconsistencies can be directly attributed to poor storytelling exposition or rushed delivery of the game. 

IT requires significantly more assumptions.  "The husk eyes in Synth/Control at the end are an indication of IT." "The infinite ammo hand-cannon is proof of IT."  "TIM is really the Reapers, and Anderson is your mind still fighting them off."  "You never really left Earth."  "Shepard did not, in fact, end the Reaper threat...yet.  But he will."

3.  If Bioware had intended IT all along, then after completing a first play-through those who play again should be able to fairly easily pick up on the clues and cues and processes that Bioware supposedly used to lead us to that thought.  The game was directly marketed as a great place to jump into the series (I vehemently disagree, but that's not the point--this is still Bioware, after all.  If you want to introduce pre-release marketing as evidence for IT, I will introduce it as against) and so these new players must be taken into consideration for such an ending.  There must be either some mechanism to let players know what happened or that they essentially got a game over screen--this is especially true since the game over screen looks almost identical to the one where you supposedly break free of Indoctrination.

@ the Red Herring somehow being evidence for IT.  Well.  Personally, the way I interpreted it was that that final image was just that; a red herring.  It was there to make people think there was more to the game or whatever.

@ the song: "An' you know what they said? Well, some of it was true!"  For the parts you have highlighted, even from an anti-IT standpoint, Shepard does pass out.  Then he wakes up.  The song lyrics do not seem to me ot indicate IT at all.  It does do a rather eerily good job of describing the London mission and endings.  Ice age is coming, ie, galactic dark age.  London is where the Reapers congregated.  War is declared, and the battle came down (obviously, it came down to Londong.)  etc. etc.  [I apologize for the rambling way my thoughts took me in writing this paragraph.]  Anyway, I see nothing like, "In the end, it was all just a dream -- shoot them with bullets, or take one for the team" in the lyrics. 

I really see nothing at all that would indicate how these images are, in fact, favorable evidence of IT.  This is ignoring the iron and temperature link-image-things.

[Merchant2006]

WELL DONE OP.

YOU FIGURED OUT SOMETHING THAT EVERYONE KNEW EXACTLY 10 MONTHS AGO. WELL DONE, BRAVO BRAVO. WELL DONE.

[ardias89]

Btw we should be carefull about this they have been lazy at keeping their promises.