308 réponses à ce sujet

[Rifneno]

DukeOfNukes wrote...

People that don't believe in the IT were insulted for ever doubting that BioWare was anything less that an all-knowing company that planned out everything from the get go. I called the 3 people saying so apologists. But you're right...they aren't apologists, they're sychophant's.

I don't need anyone to apologize for me, as I've done nothing wrong. Doubting BioWare is not the unholy crime that a lot of you seem to think. They have failed me before, and undoubtedly will do so more in the future...even if the majority of their games in the future are amazing, there's bound to be a few stinkers in there.

Are you REALLY equating not believing the IT is real with believing Elvis is still alive? If you tell me to write a story, and then 3 months later, I turn in that story...I can't run around claiming the story was my idea all along. That's EXACTLY what you're proposing. BioWare had more than 2 months to claim the idea as their own, and they've been silent about it.

1. Very few claim BW is infallible. Of course they have had, and will have, some miserable failures. Who doesn't? The general point was that they've earned the benefit of the doubt. ME3 was exquisite up until the conduit run. The way the genophage and quarian/geth storylines played out (provided you managed to get the good endings with them) was just... beautiful. The "it's because BW sucks at writing" drivel doesn't fly. The reason people say they suck is because the ending was crazy, and the reason the ending was crazy is because they suck. That's what they call "circular logic" and 83 different types of retarded. The logical thing to do would be to try to figure out why it was the way it was and if that reason is any good. That's how we IT'ers got where we are. We tried to figure out what the problem was and we did. Your ilk has mostly spent time raging out on the Internet and filing frivolous lawsuits.

2. No, I'm equating it to angrily folding your arms and screeching "No, I was right, you just stole the idea from the fans!" after BW confirms it was the plan all along to believing Elvis is still alive. Do try to keep up.

Comguard2 wrote...

Beings of light > never mentioned again

... Seriously?

Modifié par Rifneno, 21 mai 2012 - 11:36 .

[Abreu Road]

MaximizedAction wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

I think it's interesting that some people use Occam's razor to 'prove' IT wrong, when to me IT is the simplest explanation so it just reinforces my belief.

Anti-IT will disagree, but in fact IT is the simplest explaination.
Simply because IT is based merely on the observations in-game, i.e. on the evidence at hand.
Bioware ****-Theory doesn't have direct evidence and is a more subjective interpretation.

Also IT is only what Bioware wanted us to do, as Casey and Ray stated in their messages: They wanted to wait for more people to finish the game and do own research. The latter brought up IT.

wicked_being wrote...

Interesting clues. The problem is
this was way all the way back in 2010. They said a lot of things that
never came true, even post-gold. So no matter how great this discovery
is, chances are these clues don't mean anything anymore.

They also said this. Now tell me that was 'just another random' statement back in summer 2011...

Look, I would simply love if IT is true or if they retcon the ending. But I dont believe this will happen.

The simplest explanation is that the ending doesnt live to peoples expectation, nor with the series by itself.

The simplest explanation is that Writers team did not wrote the ending, but two or three other guys did it, some of them with no writing background (or skills) whatsoever.

The ending was meant to be vague and inspiring, but turned out to be retarded and full of plot holes. That is the simplest explanation.

Also, another simple explanation would be that they run out of money.

[Rifneno]

They ran out of money is the reason control and synthesis turns Shepard's eyes exactly like TIM's, which were established in the comics to have been from very brief contact with a Reaper artifact that utterly enslaved everyone else whose contact wasn't so brief?

They ran out of money is the reason no one on Earth acknowedgles the kid, the same kid who disappeared into thin air when Anderson distracted Shepard (which was accompanied by a Reaper growl that isn't set to sound as if coming from outside like the rest of the Reaper growls, like the Reaper growls Paul Grayson heard when distracted from an indoctrination manifestation)?

They ran out of money is the reason Arrival firmly established that indoctrination symptoms can and do manifest in dreams, dreams where the Reapers break down the subject's will by harping on their past failures?

They ran out of money is the reason that nightmares is the only symptom of post traumatic stress disorder Shepard shows even though the asari in counseling and to a lesser extent Kelly Chambers show that BW does in fact know there's other symptoms, the most prominent of which is desperately wanting to stay away from what traumatized them (remember when Shepard shied away from the Reapers? Me neither.)?

They ran out of money is the reason that the dreams have a visual effect described best by the rachni queen as "oily shadows" (when she was talking about indoctrination)?

They ran out of money is the reason that the only ending where Shepard survives involves him being at ground zero of what must be a hundred plus kiloton explosion on the Citadel?

They ran out of money is the reason that control is obviously TIM's solution and synthesis is eerily reminiscent of Saren's speech: "The relationship is symbiotic, organic and machine intertwined, a union of flesh and steel, the strengths of both, the weaknesses of neither! I am a vision of the future Shepard, the evolution of all organic life!"?

They ran out of money is the reason that Shepard shoots Anderson in the stomach, then Shepard is severely bleeding from the place that Anderson is shot while Anderson is no worse for wear?

They ran out of money is the reason the white-out effect used when Shepard is hit by the beam is only otherwise used in entering/exiting "unreal" places like the dreams and geth consensus?

They ran out of money is the reason that getting to the conduit and entering the Citadel has the same sound effect as entering the geth consensus?

They ran out of money is the reason that Legion says your mind interprets their computer world as something familiar and all parts of the "Citadel" bear striking resemblence to places from Shepard's past? (1. Collector Ship, 2. Shadow Broker's ship, 3. TIM's room at Cronos Station, 4. the conduit run you just did)

They ran out of money is the reason that when you see the kid in the vent, there's a special "bolt to the head" warning label that makes no sense where it is and is not found anywhere else in the game?

Sounds reasonable.

[BTbuster2010]

your messing with reaper code!!!!!

[Comguard2]

Can't wait till EC comes out. Then we will have our answer, one way or another.

[FlyinElk212]

The first two clues are what fascinate me the most. They seem to have the least amount of relevance in the set of clues. Clearly, the other 3 relate in some form to the ending, but...

-55.485 (which according to Wikipedia is NOT the atomic weight of Iron. The real number is 55.845)
-128.5°F ?

Maybe there's something significant about these numbers that we aren't picking up on.

55.485, -128.5.

1. Coordinates-wise it leads to a spot on Nisga's Highway (British Columbia 113) in British Columbia, Canada.
2. Adding the two values together gives you -73.015
3. The coldest temperature ever recorded on earth is -89.2 degrees Celsius (-128.5 degrees Fahrenheit) at Vostok, Antarctica on July 21, 1983

Anything significant about these numbers?

[jsadalia]

FlyinElk212 wrote...

The first two clues are what fascinate me the most. They seem to have the least amount of relevance in the set of clues. Clearly, the other 3 relate in some form to the ending, but...

-55.485 (which according to Wikipedia is NOT the atomic weight of Iron. The real number is 55.845)
-128.5°F ?

Maybe there's something significant about these numbers that we aren't picking up on.

55.485, -128.5.

1. Coordinates-wise it leads to a spot on Nisga's Highway (British Columbia 113) in British Columbia, Canada.
2. Adding the two values together gives you -73.015
3. The coldest temperature ever recorded on earth is -89.2 degrees Celsius (-128.5 degrees Fahrenheit) at Vostok, Antarctica on July 21, 1983

Anything significant about these numbers?

OP had a typo: the binary does indeed translate to 55.845.

As an aside, and this should probably be in another thread, the main difficulty I have with IT is a real-world one: the idea that BioWare would create an ending in which only very subtle observation leads the player to the correct choice, and the other two choices result in complete failure and the destruction of all the player holds dear--it seems astonishingly unlikely.  Saying to two-thirds of players, "Nope, sorry, you weren't paying enough attention, you lose."  I can't see a video game company making that decision.

[Comguard2]

What is more probable:

That the clues were just hinting for the Mass Effect 3 Teaser, or that they contradict everything we read (Final Hours App, post from Weekes), saw (end - deal with it) and heard (this was the end - deal with it)?

[Chief Commander]

FlyinElk212 wrote...

The first two clues are what fascinate me the most. They seem to have the least amount of relevance in the set of clues. Clearly, the other 3 relate in some form to the ending, but...

-55.485 (which according to Wikipedia is NOT the atomic weight of Iron. The real number is 55.845)
-128.5°F ?

Maybe there's something significant about these numbers that we aren't picking up on.

55.485, -128.5.

1. Coordinates-wise it leads to a spot on Nisga's Highway (British Columbia 113) in British Columbia, Canada.
2. Adding the two values together gives you -73.015
3. The coldest temperature ever recorded on earth is -89.2 degrees Celsius (-128.5 degrees Fahrenheit) at Vostok, Antarctica on July 21, 1983

Anything significant about these numbers?

It´s the illuminati. Case closed.

[Wowky]

TSA_383 wrote...

The further I go into this whole thing, the more I'm reminded of NIN's "Year Zero" game from back in 2007.

This thread was already awesome, but then I read that bit and was like "this guy/girl is a champion"

[Janus Prospero]

It could just be that since 55.845 is the atomic weight (aka average mass of atoms) of iron, that it's an allusion to Mass Effect.

Modifié par Janus Prospero, 21 mai 2012 - 02:34 .

[Rifneno]

jsadalia wrote...

As an aside, and this should probably be in another thread, the main difficulty I have with IT is a real-world one: the idea that BioWare would create an ending in which only very subtle observation leads the player to the correct choice, and the other two choices result in complete failure and the destruction of all the player holds dear--it seems astonishingly unlikely.  Saying to two-thirds of players, "Nope, sorry, you weren't paying enough attention, you lose."  I can't see a video game company making that decision.

There's so much wrong with that I don't even know where to begin.

1. Some of the clues are very subtle.  Others are about as subtle as a cruise missile.  The dreams for instance.  Or the entire surreal nature of everything past Harbinger's beam.  When Shepard asks TIM why he doesn't just do it, why he doesn't just control the Reapers, why he's sitting there chatting up him and Anderson, to which TIM thoughtfully replies "Because I need you to believe."  If that didn't set off some alarm bells with you, perhaps you should check your alarm system wiring.

2. The entire point of a plot twist is to take the audience by surprise.  How so many literalists can't accept this is simply beyond me.

3. " complete failure and the destruction of all the player holds dear"?  Melodramatic much?  Remind me how failing the indoctrination test is any different than any old game over.  Do you think failing it somehow marks you for life so the computer knows never to let you see the rest of the game?  Just reload and pick the right one.  Gah.

[BatmanTurian]

TSA_383 wrote...

Okay, it's "more fun information time"

The temperature DID tie it to Aequitas at the time of the leak, BUT someone has since changed the temperature shown on the mass effect wiki.

Here is the offending edit:
http://masseffect.wi...43&oldid=167263

It seems Lancer1289, the one who did the offending edit and seems to rule the site with an iron fist, is kind of a know-it-all, self-rightious d*ck if you read his talk page.

[Chief Commander]

OP I had a thought: The first two clues were just hints at that we would finally play on Earth. Iron is the most common element on Earth and‘-128.5°F is the coldest recorded temperature. So sadly I don´t think this "clue hunt" was saying anything other than "Our new game is ME3 and you will play on earth, specifically in London, where Anderson was born."

[NoSpin]

jsadalia wrote...

]OP had a typo: the binary does indeed translate to 55.845.

As an aside, and this should probably be in another thread, the main difficulty I have with IT is a real-world one: the idea that BioWare would create an ending in which only very subtle observation leads the player to the correct choice, and the other two choices result in complete failure and the destruction of all the player holds dear--it seems astonishingly unlikely.  Saying to two-thirds of players, "Nope, sorry, you weren't paying enough attention, you lose."  I can't see a video game company making that decision.

The other two choices wouldn't mean an automatic game over, and the "right"choice isn't vague or subtle. Your job is to kill the reapers. So kill the damn reapers and don't let anyone talk you out of it.


The red herring in the OP is certainly the most telling, let's see what happens in the EC....

[Jadebaby]

Well done TSA.

"You did good child, you did good"

Personally though, I think if it were thought about as early as 2010, they wouldn't have been able to keep a lid on it.

[jsadalia]

Rifneno wrote...

jsadalia wrote...

As an aside, and this should probably be in another thread, the main difficulty I have with IT is a real-world one: the idea that BioWare would create an ending in which only very subtle observation leads the player to the correct choice, and the other two choices result in complete failure and the destruction of all the player holds dear--it seems astonishingly unlikely.  Saying to two-thirds of players, "Nope, sorry, you weren't paying enough attention, you lose."  I can't see a video game company making that decision.

There's so much wrong with that I don't even know where to begin.

1. Some of the clues are very subtle.  Others are about as subtle as a cruise missile.  The dreams for instance.  Or the entire surreal nature of everything past Harbinger's beam.  When Shepard asks TIM why he doesn't just do it, why he doesn't just control the Reapers, why he's sitting there chatting up him and Anderson, to which TIM thoughtfully replies "Because I need you to believe."  If that didn't set off some alarm bells with you, perhaps you should check your alarm system wiring.

2. The entire point of a plot twist is to take the audience by surprise.  How so many literalists can't accept this is simply beyond me.

3. " complete failure and the destruction of all the player holds dear"?  Melodramatic much?  Remind me how failing the indoctrination test is any different than any old game over.  Do you think failing it somehow marks you for life so the computer knows never to let you see the rest of the game?  Just reload and pick the right one.  Gah.

3. "Just reload and pick the right one."  If you can't see why that makes the whole thing pointless, and why a company would not invest so much effort in the alternatives, then please just sit smugly in your smug tower throwing smug little darts of snark down on all those not blessed with your infallible insight.

[Wowky]

Rifneno wrote...


1. Some of the clues are very subtle.  Others are about as subtle as a cruise missile.  The dreams for instance.  Or the entire surreal nature of everything past Harbinger's beam.  When Shepard asks TIM why he doesn't just do it, why he doesn't just control the Reapers, why he's sitting there chatting up him and Anderson, to which TIM thoughtfully replies "Because I need you to believe."  If that didn't set off some alarm bells with you, perhaps you should check your alarm system wiring.
.

To be fair, when I went through the ending the first time, a lot of what are considered "alarm bells" or "clues" did go over my head, and hell even some of the clues/alarm bells throughout the games (e.g. the dreams - I just kinda thought he was guilty) did too - I'm a bright guy, but I was just overwhelmed by the sheer awesome of the game that I just wasn't paying such close attention.

In hindsight yeah, watching videos etc a lot of those things do seem "odd" and on my second playthrough they stuck out like sore thumbs, but like I said, the first time through a lot of it went over my head.

[AngryFrozenWater]

FlyinElk212 wrote...

3. The coldest temperature ever recorded on earth is -89.2 degrees Celsius (-128.5 degrees Fahrenheit) at Vostok, Antarctica on July 21, 1983

Anything significant about these numbers?

Yes. There is a system called Vostok in the Maroon Sea. There are only two interesting planets. One, called Clomarthu, is described as Earth's twin, except it utterly lacks life. The other, called Pataiton, was decribed as follows in the Wikia: "Scans of Pataiton revealed a strange unmanned vessel in orbit around the planet. Tali brought it on board and determined it was asari-made, but very old. She discovered several ancient artifacts inside the vessel, including one of Matriarch Dilinaga's writings."

The matriarch's name is also an area on the Citadel. The wikia has this to say about it: "Tayseri Ward is a location on the Citadel. During the Eden Prime War, the Ward suffered extensive damage when the Reaper Sovereign exploded. One of the most impacted structures on the Ward was the Dilinaga Concert Hall. Two years later, technicians continue repairs on the damage inflicted by removing wreckage and restoring power to the ward. When asked by Commander Shepard about the damage caused by the destruction of Sovereign, Captain Bailey mentions this ward as an example of the worst done to the station.

According to a shuttle schedule seen in the Zakera Ward, other locations in the ward include a Museum of Galactic History, Auxua School of the Arts, Gaeron Botanical Gardens, and Tayseri Point. The station at the Dilinaga Concert Hall is closed for repairs."

It's all very mysterious indeed. Ghehe.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 21 mai 2012 - 02:59 .

[NoSpin]

jsadalia wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

jsadalia wrote...

As an aside, and this should probably be in another thread, the main difficulty I have with IT is a real-world one: the idea that BioWare would create an ending in which only very subtle observation leads the player to the correct choice, and the other two choices result in complete failure and the destruction of all the player holds dear--it seems astonishingly unlikely.  Saying to two-thirds of players, "Nope, sorry, you weren't paying enough attention, you lose."  I can't see a video game company making that decision.

There's so much wrong with that I don't even know where to begin.

1. Some of the clues are very subtle.  Others are about as subtle as a cruise missile.  The dreams for instance.  Or the entire surreal nature of everything past Harbinger's beam.  When Shepard asks TIM why he doesn't just do it, why he doesn't just control the Reapers, why he's sitting there chatting up him and Anderson, to which TIM thoughtfully replies "Because I need you to believe."  If that didn't set off some alarm bells with you, perhaps you should check your alarm system wiring.

2. The entire point of a plot twist is to take the audience by surprise.  How so many literalists can't accept this is simply beyond me.

3. " complete failure and the destruction of all the player holds dear"?  Melodramatic much?  Remind me how failing the indoctrination test is any different than any old game over.  Do you think failing it somehow marks you for life so the computer knows never to let you see the rest of the game?  Just reload and pick the right one.  Gah.

3. "Just reload and pick the right one."  If you can't see why that makes the whole thing pointless, and why a company would not invest so much effort in the alternatives, then please just sit smugly in your smug tower throwing smug little darts of snark down on all those not blessed with your infallible insight.

It wouldn't be a wrong choice, it would be a different one. You will probably be allowed to continue "indoctrinated", different choices/dialog abound. Getting off topic though guys, mods are like sharks and this is an interesting thread.

[Gibb_Shepard]

Dear lord what will the cultists come up with next.

[DukeOfNukes]

Rifneno wrote...

1. Very few claim BW is infallible. Of course they have had, and will have, some miserable failures. Who doesn't? The general point was that they've earned the benefit of the doubt.

Have they? If you had said this after ME2, I would agree, but another 3 major launches and underwhelming releases later, I'm inclined to dissagree.

I also find it interesting that people tend to run to DA2, as if that's their first and only failure. I wonder if it's flat out ignorance to Pinnacle Station, or they blocked it out?

ME3 was exquisite up until the conduit run.

Was it? I must have missed that part...the first 10 hours or so of the game, I was strongly tempted to put down the game and never play again. Once I got to Tuchanka, it was great...and mostly stayed that way untill the end of Thessia. Then...it PLUMMETED in quality once again. Maybe you LOVED the game as much as you're saying. If that's the case, then great for you...but not all of us did.

We tried to figure out what the problem was and we did. Your ilk has mostly spent time raging out on the Internet and filing frivolous lawsuits.

Ah, so you personally had a hand in creating the Indoctrination Theory? And you, of course, did this, while I filed a complaint with the FTC. You're 100% right...it was all me. I also fired the shot from the grassy knoll.

That's quite a bizarre step you're taking there...It's kind of like me saying "maybe we do need SOME FORM of gun control", and you running out and claiming I'm a communist.

2. No, I'm equating it to angrily folding your arms and screeching "No, I was right, you just stole the idea from the fans!" after BW confirms it was the plan all along to believing Elvis is still alive. Do try to keep up.

Yes, because major corporations NEVER steal anything from their consumers and then lie about it.

If this is what happens, and you believe them, then yay, I'm happy for you. Personally, I'm a skeptic by nature. They had more than enough of a chance to lay claim to this theory, and they just flat out haven't. That alone casts doubt on it being their intention from the get go.

[Rifneno]

jsadalia wrote...

3. "Just reload and pick the right one." If you can't see why that makes the whole thing pointless, and why a company would not invest so much effort in the alternatives, then please just sit smugly in your smug tower throwing smug little darts of snark down on all those not blessed with your infallible insight.

Either you have nothing, or you can't quite figure out how to say "some of us consider our first run, a blind run, as our canon run." In which case, perhaps you should've picked a game more suited to hand holding. Most of us actually like when the game doesn't hold our hands to nothing bad can possibly happen. It sure sucks when there's consequences to your actions. Or something.

Wowky wrote...

To be fair, when I went through the ending the first time, a lot of what are considered "alarm bells" or "clues" did go over my head, and hell even some of the clues/alarm bells throughout the games (e.g. the dreams - I just kinda thought he was guilty) did too - I'm a bright guy, but I was just overwhelmed by the sheer awesome of the game that I just wasn't paying such close attention.

In hindsight yeah, watching videos etc a lot of those things do seem "odd" and on my second playthrough they stuck out like sore thumbs, but like I said, the first time through a lot of it went over my head.

Of course, I didn't mean to imply there was something wrong with missing the clues and taking it at face value. I didn't figure it out on my first run either. I only meant that you didn't need to have read all the books and comics as some people seem to think in order to get it.

Nothing wrong with not picking it up on one's own. Lots wrong with raging and going "lulz like cultists n religius nutz" before being distracted by something shiny.