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[Elyiia]

balance5050 wrote...

Icinix wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Icinix wrote...

Elyiia wrote...

Karolus_V wrote...


I think, Arrival is canon, even if you dont like it. If not, wtf are you doing in earth , in custody for blowing up the relay in the Batarian system >.>.

It can't be, if there is an alternative situation for it then it cannot be considered canon. Example, Tali surviving ME1 is canon, she can't die then. Tali surviving ME2 is not canon because she can die.

Situation 1: Shepard does it.
Situation 2: Alliance Marines do it.

You can use Arrival as an example of indoctrination but not as a source.

Yeah exactly. Arrival is canon. But Shepard being part of that scenario is not canon.

It was for me, there is no true canon.

Except Arrival - that definitely happened no matter if you import a Shepard or start new. Therefore - the Arrival even happened in every single persons playthrough - but it can't be the reason for why Shepard is indoctrinated, because not everyones Shepard was there for it.

?

Not everyone hired Wrex in ME1, he's still part of MY game and so is "The Arrival" because MY Shepard DID IT ALL. MY Shepard is a BAD ASS. 

You're not understanding, the endings have to work for every Shepard. A Shepard who has not done Arrival does not have a full two days of being in the immediate vacintity of an indoctrination source. However, the IT puts all Shepards on equal ground. The only way this would work if these "new" Shepards were harder to indoctrinate than the "older" Shepards.

[eddieoctane]

Just thought of something. -128.5F is the coldest temp ever recorded on Earth, in Antarctica. Given the red herring BioWare linked with there bar code, perhaps the reference means nothing. Maybe the fish was just a way of letting everyone know that one of those clues meant nothing.

However, a lot of Mass Effect was ripped out of Stargate, from Shep's and Anderson's names (John Shepard was the main character in SG: Atlantis, and the former badass stepping aside for a new one to take over was Jack O'Neill, played by Richard Dean Anderson aka MacGyver--the Alan Shepard reference came about far later). Furthermore, using the relays as a weapon to transmit some kind of kill-code to the Reapers was taken from the SG1 episode "Reckoning" from season 8. In this, an Ancient weapon was used to send out an energy pulse through all the gates which permanently shut off all the replicators. Stargate also had the discovery of an Ancient weapons platform buried under the Antarctic ice sheet. This allowed the Jack to single-handedly destroy the entirety of Anubis's fleet, which was arriving to conquer Earth.

Maybe it's nothing, or maybe there is something in Antarctica that will help kill the Reapers if IT holds true and the Crucible amounts to nothing. This probably is grasping at straws, but the numerous nods to Stargate through all of Mass Effect are hard to ignore. Just thought I'd throw this out there.

[TSA_383]

jsadalia wrote...

That lowest temperature was recorded at Lake Vostok. Vostok is a system in Mass Effect, with little going on except an ExoGeni mission in ME1. It's about thorian creepers, and has nothing to do with reapers or indoctrination that I can see.

Incorporating these codes into IT seems a stretch, to say the least.

Fair, I'll look into why various forums made the conclusion I used in the OP.

Here's everything that happens in Vostok:

http://masseffect.wi...os:_Geth_Attack
http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Alko
http://masseffect.wi.../wiki/Clomarthu (Sort of interesting)
http://masseffect.wi..._Asari_Writings

[Uncle Jo]

Icinix wrote...


..er.... never said it wasn't part of your game? Saying that if Shepard is indoctrinated - the reason can't be arrival because not every Shepard was at Arrival - it needs to be a universal thing in everyones ME3.

Sorry to bump in, but wouldn't it better to discuss this point in the main thread ? I think we're getting a little bit out of topic...

[balance5050]

Icinix wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Icinix wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Icinix wrote...

Elyiia wrote...

Karolus_V wrote...


I think, Arrival is canon, even if you dont like it. If not, wtf are you doing in earth , in custody for blowing up the relay in the Batarian system >.>.

It can't be, if there is an alternative situation for it then it cannot be considered canon. Example, Tali surviving ME1 is canon, she can't die then. Tali surviving ME2 is not canon because she can die.

Situation 1: Shepard does it.
Situation 2: Alliance Marines do it.

You can use Arrival as an example of indoctrination but not as a source.

Yeah exactly. Arrival is canon. But Shepard being part of that scenario is not canon.

It was for me, there is no true canon.

Except Arrival - that definitely happened no matter if you import a Shepard or start new. Therefore - the Arrival even happened in every single persons playthrough - but it can't be the reason for why Shepard is indoctrinated, because not everyones Shepard was there for it.

?

Not everyone hired Wrex in ME1, he's still part of MY game and so is "The Arrival" because MY Shepard DID IT ALL. MY Shepard is a BAD ASS. 

..er.... never said it wasn't part of your game? Saying that if Shepard is indoctrinated - the reason can't be arrival because not every Shepard was at Arrival - it needs to be a universal thing in everyones ME3.

Right, ME3 takes place over atleast a few months and Shepard is in fairly constant contact so it's possible because the reapers can actually control how fast they want the Indoc to work. 

[Elyiia]

TSA_383 wrote...

jsadalia wrote...

That lowest temperature was recorded at Lake Vostok. Vostok is a system in Mass Effect, with little going on except an ExoGeni mission in ME1. It's about thorian creepers, and has nothing to do with reapers or indoctrination that I can see.

Incorporating these codes into IT seems a stretch, to say the least.

Fair, I'll look into why various forums made the conclusion I used in the OP.

Here's everything that happens in Vostok:

http://masseffect.wi...os:_Geth_Attack
http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Alko
http://masseffect.wi.../wiki/Clomarthu (Sort of interesting)
http://masseffect.wi..._Asari_Writings

Feros: Geth Attack occurs in a different system.

[ZackG312]

jsadalia wrote...

Fingertrip wrote...

Oh look, we've already got trolls and delusional anti-IT rejecters. Don't mind them to much, they're new to the franchise.

This is exactly the kind of zealotry that frustrates so many about IT fans.  You don't know everything.  You don't know you're right.  The great majority of those who disagree with you are neither new to the franchise nor delusional.

so saying that IT are zelots us okay but when they attack back its bad

[eddieoctane]

Uncle Jo wrote...

Icinix wrote...


..er.... never said it wasn't part of your game? Saying that if Shepard is indoctrinated - the reason can't be arrival because not every Shepard was at Arrival - it needs to be a universal thing in everyones ME3.

Sorry to bump in, but wouldn't it better to discuss this point in the main thread ? I think we're getting a little bit out of topic...

The point was that there may have been clues about IT from before the game was even released.

I'm really thinking about the red herring a lot now. Perhaps it was a hint to disregard one of the clues, perhaps that the game isn't what it seems to be. If my idea about an SG1 reference turns out true, I might just forgive BioWare even without an apology for mishandling this whole kerfuffle. I simply like Stargate that much.

Shame SG:U got canceled. At least the season ended in a way that makes bringing it back really, really easy.

[balance5050]

Elyiia wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

jsadalia wrote...

That lowest temperature was recorded at Lake Vostok. Vostok is a system in Mass Effect, with little going on except an ExoGeni mission in ME1. It's about thorian creepers, and has nothing to do with reapers or indoctrination that I can see.

Incorporating these codes into IT seems a stretch, to say the least.

Fair, I'll look into why various forums made the conclusion I used in the OP.

Here's everything that happens in Vostok:

http://masseffect.wi...os:_Geth_Attack
http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Alko
http://masseffect.wi.../wiki/Clomarthu (Sort of interesting)
http://masseffect.wi..._Asari_Writings

Feros: Geth Attack occurs in a different system.

The first clue is an atomic weight for iron, Feros is another word for iron.

[Icinix]

eddieoctane wrote...

Uncle Jo wrote...

Icinix wrote...


..er.... never said it wasn't part of your game? Saying that if Shepard is indoctrinated - the reason can't be arrival because not every Shepard was at Arrival - it needs to be a universal thing in everyones ME3.

Sorry to bump in, but wouldn't it better to discuss this point in the main thread ? I think we're getting a little bit out of topic...

The point was that there may have been clues about IT from before the game was even released.

I'm really thinking about the red herring a lot now. Perhaps it was a hint to disregard one of the clues, perhaps that the game isn't what it seems to be. If my idea about an SG1 reference turns out true, I might just forgive BioWare even without an apology for mishandling this whole kerfuffle. I simply like Stargate that much.

Shame SG:U got canceled. At least the season ended in a way that makes bringing it back really, really easy.

Indeed. At the time the Red Herring never seemed to make sense. But taken quite literally against ME3 - it ends with a red herring.

Its a straight up paralell to be drawn for sure.

The clues individually don't seem to make much sense - but all together and what we know about ME3 - they seem to work.

Especially when you throw in cold war, iron curtain, sleeper agents, MI6, London, Vostok, the bugged planet with the N7 indoctrination mission, etc etc. They just seem to tie in, albeit loosely.

[Elyiia]

balance5050 wrote...

Elyiia wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

jsadalia wrote...

That lowest temperature was recorded at Lake Vostok. Vostok is a system in Mass Effect, with little going on except an ExoGeni mission in ME1. It's about thorian creepers, and has nothing to do with reapers or indoctrination that I can see.

Incorporating these codes into IT seems a stretch, to say the least.

Fair, I'll look into why various forums made the conclusion I used in the OP.

Here's everything that happens in Vostok:

http://masseffect.wi...os:_Geth_Attack
http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Alko
http://masseffect.wi.../wiki/Clomarthu (Sort of interesting)
http://masseffect.wi..._Asari_Writings

Feros: Geth Attack occurs in a different system.

The first clue is an atomic weight for iron, Feros is another word for iron.

He said it occurs in Vostok, I corrected him.

[Elyiia]

I still think that the red herring refers to the Catalyst, rather than the ending being fake.

We're looking for a power source for the Crucible, where we are directed is to find some device. What it actually is is the Citadel. Is that not a red herring?

[Uncle Jo]

Icinix wrote...

eddieoctane wrote...

Uncle Jo wrote...

Icinix wrote...


..er.... never said it wasn't part of your game? Saying that if Shepard is indoctrinated - the reason can't be arrival because not every Shepard was at Arrival - it needs to be a universal thing in everyones ME3.

Sorry to bump in, but wouldn't it better to discuss this point in the main thread ? I think we're getting a little bit out of topic...

The point was that there may have been clues about IT from before the game was even released.

I'm really thinking about the red herring a lot now. Perhaps it was a hint to disregard one of the clues, perhaps that the game isn't what it seems to be. If my idea about an SG1 reference turns out true, I might just forgive BioWare even without an apology for mishandling this whole kerfuffle. I simply like Stargate that much.

Shame SG:U got canceled. At least the season ended in a way that makes bringing it back really, really easy.

Indeed. At the time the Red Herring never seemed to make sense. But taken quite literally against ME3 - it ends with a red herring.

Its a straight up paralell to be drawn for sure.

The clues individually don't seem to make much sense - but all together and what we know about ME3 - they seem to work.

Especially when you throw in cold war, iron curtain, sleeper agents, MI6, London, Vostok, the bugged planet with the N7 indoctrination mission, etc etc. They just seem to tie in, albeit loosely.

Edit : It's quite the same puzzle- principle in ME3 in the IT version. Taken alone the clues in-game (dreams, pile of bodies, scene with Anderson, etc...) don't mean much. Was quite tired and didn't realize that I was repeating what you already said.

I find the original post absolutely fascinating with a special mention to the song :

London calling to the imitation zone   (Dream Sequence after Harby's Beam?)

Quit holding out, and draw another breath (breath scene, Shep in the London rubble)
 
Except for that one with the yellowy eyes (Javik as original catalyst or our friend Harbinger)


I can't analyze more than this since I'm not sure of my english.

Modifié par Uncle Jo, 21 mai 2012 - 12:22 .

[eddieoctane]

Elyiia wrote...

I still think that the red herring refers to the Catalyst, rather than the ending being fake.

We're looking for a power source for the Crucible, where we are directed is to find some device. What it actually is is the Citadel. Is that not a red herring?

When phrased that way, no. No one knew what the Catalyst was, only that we needed it. If you take it to mean that we thought the Catalust was the Citadel and instead was an AI hidden on the station, then the red harring could apply. But even then, we can only speculate as to the nature of the red herring.

[jsadalia]

eddieoctane wrote...

However, a lot of Mass Effect was ripped out of Stargate...

I always thought it had more of Babylon 5 in it: ancient powerful evil reawakening (shadows/reapers), wise elder face (minbari-asari), a war early in humanity's space travels (first contact war/earth-minbari war), ancient secrets buried on Mars (shadow ship/prothean ruins).  Even the shape of the citadel is sort of a half-open B5.

[dreamgazer]

I think it's more important to realize that BioWare is capable of dangling the carrot and making you work your mind through the lore, all to make sense of something at the end. That can apply to many outlooks on the game's final minutes, indoctrination theory or not. This shows that they actually want you to use your mind and apply your awareness of the story to face-value elements, and perhaps do some outside-the-box sleuthing and contemplating.

These are creative writers, people.

[Uncle Jo]

Elyiia wrote...

I still think that the red herring refers to the Catalyst, rather than the ending being fake.

We're looking for a power source for the Crucible, where we are directed is to find some device. What it actually is is the Citadel. Is that not a red herring?

It could be also the Crucible being the red herring... It's alledgedly the only way to defeat against the Reapers, but we still don't know what it can actually do (assuming the ending is fake)...

[eddieoctane]

Uncle Jo wrote...

It's quite the same puzzle- principle in ME3 in the IT version. Taken alone the clues in-game. (dreams, pile of bodies, scene with Anderson, etc...) doesn't mean much. I find this find absolutely fascinating with a special mention to the song:

London calling to the imitation zone   (Citadel after the Beam?)

Quit holding out, and draw another breath (breath scene, Shep in the London rubble)
 
Except for that one with the yellowy eyes (Javik as original catalyst or our friend Harbinger)


I can't analyze more than this since I'm not sure of my english.

Never thought of the "imitation zone" as a reference to everything after harbinger's attack being a dream. Good catch. And if English isn't your first language, you grasp of it seems more than strong. Your points were all spot-on.

And don't worry about that bit about sarcasm not translating. It's hard to get any form of sarcasm across through text. You need to type like an Elcor talks half the time for the internet to not distort your words.

[ChickenMan77]

Anyways, it's probably BS..Halo did some cool meta game stuff with I love Bees and Iris..but they put it more front and center. That post seems really obscure... probably just hints at ME3 in London..although......MAYBE

[eddieoctane]

jsadalia wrote...

eddieoctane wrote...

However, a lot of Mass Effect was ripped out of Stargate...

I always thought it had more of Babylon 5 in it: ancient powerful evil reawakening (shadows/reapers), wise elder face (minbari-asari), a war early in humanity's space travels (first contact war/earth-minbari war), ancient secrets buried on Mars (shadow ship/prothean ruins).  Even the shape of the citadel is sort of a half-open B5.

Both series served as a basis for the franchise. But the method through which the Crucible activates was taken directly from an episode of SG1. So I was inclined to run with the SG1 references when trying to work it out. Especially when SG1 had another superweapon hidden in Antarctica, and the -128.5F relates to Antarctica.

This has me wondering if it's even remotely possible to have an original thought anymore.

[TSA_383]

Okay, it's "more fun information time"

The temperature DID tie it to Aequitas at the time of the leak, BUT someone has since changed the temperature shown on the mass effect wiki.

Here is the offending edit:
http://masseffect.wi...43&oldid=167263

[eddieoctane]

TSA_383 wrote...

Okay, it's "more fun information time"

The temperature DID tie it to Aequitas at the time of the leak, BUT someone has since changed the temperature shown on the mass effect wiki.

Here is the offending edit:
http://masseffect.wi...43&oldid=167263

*raises eyebrow* I wonder who would have done that. It's rather odd.

Though it could still point to Antarctica, the Vostok system, or be a red herring in and of itself, thus explaining the fish bar-code.

[Icinix]

TSA_383 wrote...

Okay, it's "more fun information time"

The temperature DID tie it to Aequitas at the time of the leak, BUT someone has since changed the temperature shown on the mass effect wiki.

Here is the offending edit:
http://masseffect.wi...43&oldid=167263

We need a screen grab of the planet description from ME1, ME2 and ME3.

[TSA_383]

eddieoctane wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

Okay, it's "more fun information time"

The temperature DID tie it to Aequitas at the time of the leak, BUT someone has since changed the temperature shown on the mass effect wiki.

Here is the offending edit:
http://masseffect.wi...43&oldid=167263

*raises eyebrow* I wonder who would have done that. It's rather odd.

Though it could still point to Antarctica, the Vostok system, or be a red herring in and of itself, thus explaining the fish bar-code.

Importantly though, the logic I used in my initial conclusions still holds true.

I used the -89 thing because that appears on several gaming sites that reported the leaks in late 2010... why someone later edited it I have no idea.

Reminds me of something one of my lecturers did last year though, he wrote a tutorial that was due in the following dayon a certain application of vorticity. Then he edited the wikipedia article from home to make it incorrect as a reminder to his students not to trust wiki without sources