307 réponses à ce sujet

[malakim2099]

Bigdoser wrote...

Problem I have is that if the IT theory is true bioware sold me an incomplete game and all the marketing was complete lies.

The marketing WAS complete lies. I'm pretty sure that's been documented. As far as IT goes, I would think it would be cool if true, but I think Bioware isn't that clever anymore.

If I have to choose between IT and Space Magic... I choose IT. Even if that makes me some schizophrenic in-denial person. But I'm sure if I choose the Orange option, I can get that fixed.

[BatmanTurian]

LucasShark wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

sistersafetypin wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

LucasShark wrote...


If you are arguing from a logical perspective: IT is made invalid by it's own most firm advocates.  Why?  Because like all conspiracy theories, they've made it unfalsafiable.  This makes it an invalid theory from a logical perspective.  Any piece of evidence brought up by anti-IT-ers is simply dismissed as "part of the indoctrination", and it wouldn't matter if Harbinger himself floated infront of the camera and said "I'm not indoctrinating Shepard damnit!", it would still be "part of indoctrination".

were not saying its true, were just "speculating:....... and actually bioware can disprove it easily.
also if harbinger himself floatein front of shepard and said that, many of us would accept it. 

sorry to tell you that were not as fanatic as you think.

You aren't. And the other rational ITers aren't.... But a gander at the pages that came before this says other wise. When you're called a nut because you don't believe... Yeah, some people have moved beyond speculating and straight to evangelizing 

Neither side has been immune to being the victim of Ad Hominem. Frankly, just because we disagree on what the ending of a video game means does not make either side nuts, religious, or conspiracy theorists. The insults and Ad Hominem  both need to stop. Nobody can have a rational discussion when nobody can even entertain an open mind or bother with civility. The moment you insult another, you've already lost the debate, or at least made yourself less credible.

I entered into the discussion with an open mind: I looked at the then presented evidence, said I did not find it convincing, and was then shouted at for being "stupid" "blind" "doom saying", and a dozen other things.  I am still open to the possibility: but I will not accept as legitimate those who claim that they have facts that I am not prithy to.

And you know what? That is fine to me. I have not called you unintelligent or blind. Maybe you just don't see it the way I see it. We fundamentally disagree. The only way to have closure is the EC. Until then, we are both right and wrong. I'm not sure what your last sentence means, but we've presented all the evidence condensed in one place and if it doesn't speak for itself or speak to you in any way, then that's no problem. I'm not going to convince you if you don't want to be convinced, so why bother? You have a right to believe (or not believe) what you wish. I'm okay with that.

I only take issue with the Ad Hominem being thrown around and that it colors the arguments made in a very offensive, close-minded manner. All of us just need to cool down and wait. That's all we can do. Until then, making definitive statements either way is intellectually dishonest. Only Bioware knows the real truth.

[Reidbynature]

Hoid wrote...

LucasShark wrote...

Unholyknight800 wrote...

So why are people still debating IT?

Because some would rather believe the world rests on turtles than accept that nothing is holding it up..

How dare you try to act like the world is not being held up by a giant turtle and four elephants, its true, I read it in the codex.

And the world is flat as a disc.  Don't forget that. 

Modifié par Reidbynature, 21 mai 2012 - 07:32 .

[tanisha__unknown]

LucasShark wrote...

Should IT be correct, and you "win" by choosing destroy the reapers, and Shepard wakes up: where do we wake up?  We are plonked back onto Earth, MID-BATTLE no less, with a no doubt wounded team and reaprs everywhere.  This isn't a situation that five minuts, or een 10 minutes of cutscenes or quick time events could fix.  This is still a story written into a hole.

This will lead to one of two things: more post-credits DLC content, which will likely be paid for, or a new game entirely.  This means Bioware lied, fundamentally in nearly all their promo material and all the raming that went into ME3.  It also means, that if these items are not free, I will not get them, and even then: they will have to be delivered to my door, with chocolates and appologies before I purchase another Bioware product ever again.

This does not proove IT theory wrong, it only states that if indoctrination theory were true, the game would be unfinished. We all, well, let's say, many agree, that the ending epicly fails. With IT, we have got no ending, without it we have got endings with plotholes large enough for a reaper.

[malakim2099]

You know, for all the anti-IT people talk about "rude pro-IT people"... I see way more juvenile vitriol from the "anti-IT people" directed at the pro-IT folks.

But just so I don't miss the real topic...

[RavenEyry]

More people preaching about how the other side does too much preaching. Why can't we discuss our opinions without dismissing others opinions? Can't we all just speculate politely?

[PoisonMushroom]

I've never really viewed IT as being a definitive possibility but rather as more of an alternative interpretation. An extremely odd but good comparison would be Buffy the Vampire Slayer (yeah, I know, bare with me). There's an episode where Buffy wakes up in a mental asylum, creating the possibility that all the ridiculous vampire stuff was just the imaginings of a crazy person. You never get a definitive answer either way but it'd be silly to try and state that she's definitely crazy and that's the real story, because there's no way of knowing. Much like IT, accepting that she's crazy doesn't offer a definitive ending but it's still perfectly plausible alternative way to view it.

I think people are far too set on trying to prove one interpretation right or wrong. I just see it as being an option that's meant to make you go, 'oooh, what if?', rather than it being THE REAL ENDING.

So in my case, your point changes nothing and neither will the EC. IT has a place in my ending.

Modifié par PoisonMushroom, 21 mai 2012 - 08:12 .

[malakim2099]

RavenEyry wrote...

More people preaching about how the other side does too much preaching. Why can't we discuss our opinions without dismissing others opinions? Can't we all just speculate politely?

FOOL! THIS IS THE INTERNET!!!!

[SimplePlan2k8]

Responding to the OP, I always thought IT said that the game wasn't finished and was waiting for an ending? Or was that just my personal take on it?
For me, the end sequence was a dream/indoctrination, and destroy snaps you out of it. BW were then planning to extrapolate upon this with DLC, and as it turns out, it is the EC. EC probably dismantles my theory but there you go, it's all about the speculations!

[OH-UP-THIS!]

[quote]jla0644 wrote...

[quote]hoodaticus wrote...


[/quote]Except that Bioware said that they did toy with IT... which means at
some point it was planned and possibly developed, and it is quite
possible that some of their IT-intended scenes ended up - perhaps
modified - in the final product.

You are the one who has some admissions to make.[/quote]

You have no idea what that would have entailed. You have no idea if the idea comes anywhere close to what your theory is. They said they thought about a section where the player would lose control of Shepard. That is a far, far cry from saying "they did toy with IT".

[/quote]

Do you recall losing control of your character, at all?

I know i did, right when Anderson was shot.

Hallucinations are kinda funny that way huh?

[Soultaker08]

I thought IT was a way out until early april.

From then on it got more and more suspicious to me until i dropped it.

IT is the perfect way to keep the forum divided until EC comes, because they fear that people could again begin blaming Bioware for whatever was wrong with ME3

[SimplePlan2k8]

PoisonMushroom wrote...

I've never really viewed IT as being a definitive possibility but rather as more of an alternative interpretation. An extremely odd but good comparison would be Buffy the Vampire Slayer (yeah, I know, bare with me). There's an episode where Buffy wakes up in a mental asylum, creating the possibility that all the ridiculous vampire stuff was just the imaginings of a crazy person. You never get a definitive answer either way but it'd be silly to try and state that she's definitely crazy and that's the real story, because there's no way of knowing. Much like IT, accepting that she's crazy doesn't offer a definitive ending but it's still perfectly plausible alternative way to view it.

They did something similar to this in DS9, where Sisko 'dreams' about a writer who writes the stories of DS9. It's incredibly powerful and in the end they speculate whether their world is a dream or not. Fun twist

[RavenEyry]

SimplePlan2k8 wrote...
They did something similar to this in DS9, where Sisko 'dreams' about a writer who writes the stories of DS9. It's incredibly powerful and in the end they speculate whether their world is a dream or not. Fun twist

An early draft of the series finale had it cut to the writer finishing his novel/manuscript at the end, but they decided not to because it would affect the entire franchise.

[SimplePlan2k8]

RavenEyry wrote...

SimplePlan2k8 wrote...
They did something similar to this in DS9, where Sisko 'dreams' about a writer who writes the stories of DS9. It's incredibly powerful and in the end they speculate whether their world is a dream or not. Fun twist

An early draft of the series finale had it cut to the writer finishing his novel/manuscript at the end, but they decided not to because it would affect the entire franchise.

Really? I realise this is off topic but that's really interesting. I loved that subplot, would have been nice to wrap around to it in the end. Especially given how random the ending was haha

[shepskisaac]

jla0644 wrote...

Except that Bioware said that they did toy with IT...

No they didn't. Saying that there was a gameplay mechanism of getting indoctrinated does NOT automatically translate into "everything post-Harby's beam is a dream/hallucination". There's a huge difference here.

[Leonardo the Magnificent]

Do people really still think Bioware planned IT and all of their contradictory behavior since is just a clever ruse in an attempt to conceal their real goal?

[OH-UP-THIS!]

JackumsD wrote...

I honestly feel sorry for the poor gamers that genuinely believe IT. Boy, are they in for a rude awakening.

Better than sitting at my PC and saying, "uh ok, where's the EPILOGUE?"

What happened to my team?

Why was Joker Flying out?

How did My team end up on Gilligans planet?

What is this STAR-TWIT, and why is this RELEVANT?

Should I continue?
 
I can do this all damn day!!!!!

[Deltakarma]

I am not affiliated with my ideals and beliefs. 'Nuff said.

This feels like its turning into some kind of religious war.

Crusades anyone?

[OH-UP-THIS!]

Optimystic_X wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...

Sounds like you'd rather have the crappy garbage endings rather than a redo out of spite.  

If your only idea of a redo is IT, then yes. I'd rather have multiple endings than "it was all a dream and two of your choices are actually traps, lol! Serves you right for not picking red, idiot!"

Well that puts a firm grasp on reality...........................

[Vox Draco]

SimplePlan2k8 wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

SimplePlan2k8 wrote...
They did something similar to this in DS9, where Sisko 'dreams' about a writer who writes the stories of DS9. It's incredibly powerful and in the end they speculate whether their world is a dream or not. Fun twist

An early draft of the series finale had it cut to the writer finishing his novel/manuscript at the end, but they decided not to because it would affect the entire franchise.

Really? I realise this is off topic but that's really interesting. I loved that subplot, would have been nice to wrap around to it in the end. Especially given how random the ending was haha

well, it would have broken the fourth wall, which never really is such a good idea in my opinion (I never liked Ferris Bueller or that Malcolm-kid). And at least Sisko achieved what he always wanted and tehre was hope in the end for him as well as his love...much more than we have right now with Shepard...

[RavenEyry]

Deltakarma wrote...

I am not affiliated with my ideals and beliefs. 'Nuff said.

This feels like its turning into some kind of religious war.

Crusades anyone?

If we capture Jerusalem will Bioware be forced to make a new ending?

[Deltakarma]

RavenEyry wrote...

Deltakarma wrote...

I am not affiliated with my ideals and beliefs. 'Nuff said.

This feels like its turning into some kind of religious war.

Crusades anyone?

If we capture Jerusalem will Bioware be forced to make a new ending?

We won the first time, how long before the pattern ends? Use biggers weapons? I think we should use Red Skittles. But after that, I think we would lose.

[EricHVela]

GamePlay.more = FALSE;

If GamePlay.more = TRUE
Then {IT.possible = TRUE;}
Else {IT.possible = FALSE;}

IT doesn't need the endings to change, but IT relies on more gameplay after "Destroy". They said they're not going to add any gameplay.

[Mike 9987]

The message at the end said he ended the reaper threat.

[SimplePlan2k8]

Vox Draco wrote...

SimplePlan2k8 wrote...

Really? I realise this is off topic but that's really interesting. I loved that subplot, would have been nice to wrap around to it in the end. Especially given how random the ending was haha

well, it would have broken the fourth wall, which never really is such a good idea in my opinion (I never liked Ferris Bueller or that Malcolm-kid). And at least Sisko achieved what he always wanted and tehre was hope in the end for him as well as his love...much more than we have right now with Shepard...

Heheh that is true, and it worked quite well for the DS9 Relaunch novels too. See the way DS9 did the ending, with Sisko falling into a pit to destroy the Pah-Wraiths, was set-up as a premise a long time before the final battle, whereas while ME3 does something similar (insta-kill Reapers/synthesise them etc) that comes from absolutely nowhere. They should have looked at DS9 for ending an arc with gods in it haha