307 réponses à ce sujet

[TsaiMeLemoni]

Elyiia wrote...

Asharad Hett wrote...

LucasShark wrote...

Now here's the problem I want them all to admit to right now: IT IS NOT, repeat IS NOT an ending.

I agree.  IT is not an ending.   But the litteral version isn't an ending either.  If you go literal, you get:

Synthesis:  Reapers still exist, Shep dies.  What happens to the rest of the galaxy is unknown.
Control:  Reapers still exist.  Shep dies.  What happens to the rest of the galaxy is unknown.
Destroy:  Reapers die.  Shep lives/dies, not sure.  What happens to the rest of the galaxy is unknown.

No matter how you spin things, Bioware didn't finish the game.

Not entirely true, if you take the ending at face value the Reaper threat is defeated in all three choices. Synthesis: The Reapers have no reason to reap. Control: Under the control of Shepard. Destroy: Reapers destroyed.

All three are an ending to the series by ending the Reaper threat.

Yep. Just because you don't know what is in store in the future doesn't mean the events of the present aren't ended. It may end in a vortex of suckitude, but it is very clearly an ending.

[LucasShark]

Dikjuh wrote...

LucasShark wrote...

Now here's the problem I want them all to admit to right now: IT IS NOT, repeat IS NOT an ending.

Should IT be correct, and you "win" by choosing destroy the reapers, and Shepard wakes up: where do we wake up?  We are plonked back onto Earth, MID-BATTLE no less, with a no doubt wounded team and reaprs everywhere.  This isn't a situation that five minuts, or een 10 minutes of cutscenes or quick time events could fix.  This is still a story written into a hole.

Well, for arguments sake, let's assume the theory is true.

If choosing destroy would break Shepard free from an indoctrination attempt by Harbinger, perhaps the same kind of thing happens to him as what happened to Sovereign when Shepard killed Saren. The link get's corrupted (or however it is called) and his shields fail for a brief moment. Allowing allied forces to take him out.

This in turn could cause the other reapers to get confused (if we assume they are a collective mind of individual nations and that he was really the leader) giving the alliance fleet another window of opportunity to strike (and possibly even use their thanix canons?).

True: but we already know the capital ships at least are sentient and operate on their own initiative.

[Pirates10i]

Whether or not Bioware were to use the IT theory, the games current ending has been burnt into my brain... its far to late for bioware to fix anything for me.. I accepted it is a crappy ending/ rushed game and i dont see myself playing any bioware game again any time soon

[Pollayil]

LucasShark wrote...

Okay: Let's say everything the IT theorists are spouting is right: their little theory is correct and I'm stupid, and my mother was a ****, and everything else they've told me is correct.  And I'm being VERY generous here considering the last piece of "evidence" I saw was a bloke realizing that the citadel tower chamber kind of sort of looks like a reaper if you squint and have pink-eye.

Now here's the problem I want them all to admit to right now: IT IS NOT, repeat IS NOT an ending.

Should IT be correct, and you "win" by choosing destroy the reapers, and Shepard wakes up: where do we wake up?  We are plonked back onto Earth, MID-BATTLE no less, with a no doubt wounded team and reaprs everywhere.  This isn't a situation that five minuts, or een 10 minutes of cutscenes or quick time events could fix.  This is still a story written into a hole.

This will lead to one of two things: more post-credits DLC content, which will likely be paid for, or a new game entirely.  This means Bioware lied, fundamentally in nearly all their promo material and all the raming that went into ME3.  It also means, that if these items are not free, I will not get them, and even then: they will have to be delivered to my door, with chocolates and appologies before I purchase another Bioware product ever again.

The very reason why IT is plausbile is because Shepard COULDN'T be plonked back to Earth. IT suggests thta Shepard passed out after being hit with the Harbinger beam and if you pick destroy, the cutscene shows you waking up from the indoctrination attempt. In fact the fact that Shepard couldn't survive re-entry to Earth is one points that ITers use to show that it was a hallucination. 

[PsyrenY]

Pollayil wrote...

The very reason why IT is plausbile is because Shepard COULDN'T be plonked back to Earth. 

A lightshow got you from Earth to the Citadel, why couldn't another lightshow get you back down?

[Evo_9]

LucasShark wrote...

Okay: Let's say everything the IT theorists are spouting is right: their little theory is correct and I'm stupid, and my mother was a ****, and everything else they've told me is correct.  And I'm being VERY generous here considering the last piece of "evidence" I saw was a bloke realizing that the citadel tower chamber kind of sort of looks like a reaper if you squint and have pink-eye.

Now here's the problem I want them all to admit to right now: IT IS NOT, repeat IS NOT an ending.

Should IT be correct, and you "win" by choosing destroy the reapers, and Shepard wakes up: where do we wake up?  We are plonked back onto Earth, MID-BATTLE no less, with a no doubt wounded team and reaprs everywhere.  This isn't a situation that five minuts, or een 10 minutes of cutscenes or quick time events could fix.  This is still a story written into a hole.

This will lead to one of two things: more post-credits DLC content, which will likely be paid for, or a new game entirely.  This means Bioware lied, fundamentally in nearly all their promo material and all the raming that went into ME3.  It also means, that if these items are not free, I will not get them, and even then: they will have to be delivered to my door, with chocolates and appologies before I purchase another Bioware product ever again.

Ummm...did you forget the big thing that all the species have been building.?

you know...the crucible thats meant to destroy all reapers?? 

Modifié par Evo_9, 21 mai 2012 - 03:43 .

[Elyiia]

Optimystic_X wrote...

Pollayil wrote...

The very reason why IT is plausbile is because Shepard COULDN'T be plonked back to Earth. 

A lightshow got you from Earth to the Citadel, why couldn't another lightshow get you back down?

Or the kinetic barriers that apparently protected everyone else.

[Mike XIII]

Ive always thought that the IT argued how the ending WASN'T an ending, Even if BW chose to run with it a 5min cut scene of shep waking up in a crater (for those who chose destroy) and the fleets of the galaxy working as 1 to at least wipe out the reapers in the sol system, or for those who chose control/ synthisis, shepard waking up obviously indoctrinated and leading reaper ground troops or whatever, (A) clarify/ and that debate once and for all, ( open up the story for a 4th instalment or even set the stage for a second trilogy, © let BW and EA walk away from this whole mess with some minimal dammage to their image.

[Evolution13]

If someone can explain how the current ending makes sense without the EC or the IT then you might have a chance of quieting the ITers down.

Why does Shepard trust starkid when all of the last 3 games have taught us the Reapers are insidious, manipulative and generally untrustworthy?

How do your squadmates that were with you on earth magically appear on the Normandy?

Why does Joker run away? He's got brittle bones and yet has more of a spine than most Krogan! And if he did have time to land and pick your squadmates up.. did he even bother to look for Shepard? He must not have because he clearly had enough time to land, pick up everyone else, then somehow end up on the other side of a mass relay explosion that shouldn't have harmed the ship to begin with.

Saying the ending was an acid trip makes more sense than trying to bang any kind of coherence into it.

Modifié par Evolution13, 21 mai 2012 - 03:52 .

[Zardoc]

Optimystic_X wrote...

Pollayil wrote...

The very reason why IT is plausbile is because Shepard COULDN'T be plonked back to Earth. 

A lightshow got you from Earth to the Citadel, why couldn't another lightshow get you back down?

>Implying Shepard survived that explosion in the first place

[G Kevin]

I thought the whole point of IT was to show that Bioware had something up their sleeves and the ending we got was not the "true" end.

[Tom Lehrer]

Mac Walters can't write a decent comic and people still think he could do something like IT?

[PsyrenY]

Zardoc wrote...

>Implying Shepard survived that explosion in the first place

Rather hard to take a breath when you're dead.

(Well, I guess it could be corpse gas or something, but that tends to flow out of the body rather than into it.)

[Jackums]

Encarmine wrote...

IT is the biggest and most extraordinary case of collective denial i have seen come from gaming fans ever in my life.

The inability to accept a product was below expectation has had some marvelous side effects. IT being the biggest one, its like a whacky commune on a forum no less.

Collective Insanity describes very well, the group of people who cannot simply accept Bioware uses them for money and nothing else.

[balance5050]

Tom Lehrer wrote...

Mac Walters can't write a decent comic and people still think he could do something like IT?

Really? I thought they were ok....

[carrmatt91]

personally, i think EA pressured bioware too much to release on a set schedule, they couldn't keep to it so they hodge bodged an ending together to make it open to a sequel to release the game on time. IF IT is true then we won't get anything substantial until ME4 or a big dlc (unlikely as this would mean we were sold an unfinished game)

but i feel for bioware, they are in a tricky position, damned if they do and damned if they don't.

[ZackG312]

LucasShark wrote...

Zany Jedi wrote...

...wait what? I was aware that ITers since the beginning have been stating that IT isn't an ending. What's all this fuss about?

Have you ever been on the recieving end of a pro-IT rant?  No didn't think so.

so you got your ass kicked in an debate and now you are here to vent

[kglaser]

ZerebusPrime wrote...

Unholyknight800 wrote...

So why are people still debating IT?

It's fun!

And yes, Indoctrination Theory as I understand it has long been built around the ending being a nonending... which is certainly how it felt.

Years ago, I was on a mailing list for "The Simpsons".  There were two factions:  those who were trying to find out where Springfield really was, just for fun, and those who got furious and kept yelling "SPRINGFIELD ISN'T ANYWHERE! Why are you debating this you morons!!"

Sorry, just got some deja vu...carry on

[ZackG312]

DLC ending or Mass Effect 4 not that hard to figure out.

[balance5050]

kglaser wrote...

ZerebusPrime wrote...

Unholyknight800 wrote...

So why are people still debating IT?

It's fun!

And yes, Indoctrination Theory as I understand it has long been built around the ending being a nonending... which is certainly how it felt.

Years ago, I was on a mailing list for "The Simpsons".  There were two factions:  those who were trying to find out where Springfield really was, just for fun, and those who got furious and kept yelling "SPRINGFIELD ISN'T ANYWHERE! Why are you debating this you morons!!"

Sorry, just got some deja vu...carry on

Didn't Matt Groening actually reveal which Springfield it was recently?

Modifié par balance5050, 21 mai 2012 - 03:57 .

[mupp3tz]

carrmatt91 wrote...

personally, i think EA pressured bioware too much to release on a set schedule, they couldn't keep to it so they hodge bodged an ending together to make it open to a sequel to release the game on time. IF IT is true then we won't get anything substantial until ME4 or a big dlc (unlikely as this would mean we were sold an unfinished game)

but i feel for bioware, they are in a tricky position, damned if they do and damned if they don't.

...or maybe Bioware was just too ambitious and set expectations too high and just couldn't deliver?  It's one thing to make an ending for a game knowing that you have another title in the works, and a completely different thing to actually conclude a complete story arc.

[David7204]

This is literally the very first major counter-arguement discussed on the IT page from that thread.

[carrmatt91]

M U P P 3 T Z wrote...

carrmatt91 wrote...

personally, i think EA pressured bioware too much to release on a set schedule, they couldn't keep to it so they hodge bodged an ending together to make it open to a sequel to release the game on time. IF IT is true then we won't get anything substantial until ME4 or a big dlc (unlikely as this would mean we were sold an unfinished game)

but i feel for bioware, they are in a tricky position, damned if they do and damned if they don't.

...or maybe Bioware was just too ambitious and set expectations too high and just couldn't deliver?  It's one thing to make an ending for a game knowing that you have another title in the works, and a completely different thing to actually conclude a complete story arc.

that doesn't really seem like bioware though, but it seems everything like EA, look at BF3 for example, it barely has a fanbase anymore since EA tried to push it as a cod killer because of the fact it was rushed to hell and was broken beyond repair, which is why i think bioware tried to take the inititiative (or EA pressure again) to at least try to set up for a future installment towards the end of development when it became clear they could not finish the story to a good enough degree in time.

[eddieoctane]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

I can't believe this IT theory thing is still going on.
I can tell you right now how its wrong
According to the IT, if you choose synthesis or control your indoctrinated. And BW stated that their will only be cutscenes maybe with dialogue option but point being the ending is not being changed. So that if the IT would be true, it would ruin their ending, because everyone would choose destroy, and Synthesis and Control would result in the same thing.

Not necessarily. There have been proposals that allows Shep to wake up regardless of decision made when confronting the Catalyst. Althoguh NWN did roll the credits if you made the wrong choice, and the game kept playing if you made the right one. So it's not an entirely new concept, even to BioWare.

And OP, I've never said that IT was an ending. It's an explanation for what happened in the supposed ending. Most ITers will readily admit that if IT is right, somethign further is coming along. If it's not free, EA pulled a Capcom and is charging us for the ending. It;s lame as hell, but that is the world we live in. If you have no interest in free DLC with runs with IT, you're a damn
fool. BioWare may have handled things poorly, but that's just cutting
off your nose to spite your face.

Also, that bit about the map from ME1 looking like a Reaper may have been a troll. Notice how quickly he was dismissed.

[Arian Dynas]

LucasShark wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

And the common answer from all pro-ITers is EC will add that ending... Like it's doing now.

They are adding CUTSCENES!  Not gameplay.

http://social.biowar.../index/12095313 

This is an example of how the ending can play out in exclusively cutscenes using indoctrination theory. Point proven, it makes no difference if it is gameplay or cutscenes. I also might add they have never actually stated whether they are adding cutscenes, interactive portions OR gameplay.