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A major weakness I wish IT-ers would admit


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#76
NS Wizdum

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LucasShark wrote...

Okay: Let's say everything the IT theorists are spouting is right: their little theory is correct and I'm stupid, and my mother was a ****, and everything else they've told me is correct.  And I'm being VERY generous here considering the last piece of "evidence" I saw was a bloke realizing that the citadel tower chamber kind of sort of looks like a reaper if you squint and have pink-eye.

Now here's the problem I want them all to admit to right now: IT IS NOT, repeat IS NOT an ending.

Should IT be correct, and you "win" by choosing destroy the reapers, and Shepard wakes up: where do we wake up?  We are plonked back onto Earth, MID-BATTLE no less, with a no doubt wounded team and reaprs everywhere.  This isn't a situation that five minuts, or een 10 minutes of cutscenes or quick time events could fix.  This is still a story written into a hole.

This will lead to one of two things: more post-credits DLC content, which will likely be paid for, or a new game entirely.  This means Bioware lied, fundamentally in nearly all their promo material and all the raming that went into ME3.  It also means, that if these items are not free, I will not get them, and even then: they will have to be delivered to my door, with chocolates and appologies before I purchase another Bioware product ever again.


Why are you so angry? Their "little theory" explains a lot, and was originally intended to be in the game. I'm not sure where you are getting the "none of them will admit that it isn't an ending" bit. Thats the deffinition of the theory, none of them are trying to ignore it at all. Its written out, plain and simple.

#77
LucasShark

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Arian Dynas wrote...

LucasShark wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

And the common answer from all pro-ITers is EC will add that ending... Like it's doing now.


They are adding CUTSCENES!  Not gameplay.


http://social.biowar.../index/12095313 

This is an example of how the ending can play out in exclusively cutscenes using indoctrination theory. Point proven, it makes no difference if it is gameplay or cutscenes. I also might add they have never actually stated whether they are adding cutscenes, interactive portions OR gameplay.


So a pinnacle of interactive story-telling ends with non-interactive cutscenes... that is... so idiotic.

#78
Arian Dynas

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But, in address to the OP (And by the way, all the insults and such? Don't blame everyone who believes something different from what you do by the actions and words of a few elitists. And really, can you blame us for being defensive with the torches and pitchforks reaction we get?)

To be entirely honest with you?

I don't think the EC was planned at all.

Does that mean I doubt IT? Heck no.

I think that the EC is Bioware doing EXACTLY what they said, making things more clear so that people can comprehend the ending better. For the simple fact that I think and continue to beleive their DLC plan worked out something like this;

1). Start up the ANN twitter feed, giving "Live realtime accounts" of the war and the events leading up to it, place the timeline to start the invasion on March 6th.

2). Design Mass Effect 3, plant clues both subtle and obvious to draw the interest of the fans, the ending is designed to be strange, out of place, but ultimately fulfilling and capable of satisfying the fans for now. Multiplayer is implimented to keep fan interest up. Fans keep speculating about the strange, out of place ending, staying involved and interested where normally they would finish the game and that would be the end of their thoughts on the subject.

3). Do weekly multiplayer events to make sure that the fans keep playing, even the casual ones, also integrate a story into multiplayer, since A. That's what Bioware does, and B. It gets fans involved in the story, they get to feel like real soldiers in the war. Multiplayer events coincide with classified major operations in the war, usually announced by Admiral Hackett.

4). Release single player DLC which again raises fan involvement and interest and keeps them playing, as well as speculating as more evidence and information comes in over time, in the ANN timeline, it is announced via the Twitter feed (usually the day before) and launched on the dates the events take place on.

5). Release multiplayer packs, representing various forces that enter the war over time, such as the Quarians and more Krogan as forces swell and increase, reflecting the alliegance of various forces, as well as their maneuvers against the Reapers. Which also keeps ME3 in the front of fans minds, interested, involved. thinking about, speculating.

6). Keep updating the ANN twitter feed, which eventually reaches the date of Chronos Station and the Seige of Earth, then to great fanfare, a final ending DLC is released, in which it is revealed the ending was in fact a big mind **** and that Shepard was facing indoctrination, some fans having realized this before, they reveal the numbers from the legend saves, showing the number of people they "indoctrinated" before allowing people to download this DLC, which follows the choice from their Legendsave, forcing them to live with the choice they made, showing them a different result and mission depending on their choices.

7). Mac Walters and Casey Hudson share a bottle of bubbly with Dr. Musyka and Gamble.

Unfortunately, they flubbed the "satisifed" part of the ending, but got the "strange and out of place" part spot on, so they need to make it clearer that it was intentional, so to salvage their original plan, they have to make the EC, which they didn't expect to have to make, and thus they are forced to defend the artistic integrity of their ending, which was meant to be intentional, yet most fans refused to interpret from the get go, not having to expect interpretative value from a videogame. It explains their comments that they didn't expect to make the EC, why they seemed "hurt" that we didn't like the ending, why they defended their artistic integrity so hard, and why they refused to change the endings that are, from face value, a bunch of stinkers, but from IT perspective, are positively brilliant.

Though I don't expect them to be following their original plan now, from the fan backlash, they likely decided it was a far better idea to just make the EC and squeeze in the ending content they originally had planned, potentially sans combat to win back the fans.

And even better? The funny thing about it? They aren't losing out on this at all. The only thing on the line is their reputation, which assuming this whole thing was planned will get completely turned around.

Returned copies? They don't lose any money, the distributing franchises like Gamestop and Amazon do, (considering Origin flatly refused refunds) and the only thing they maybe lose from them is reputation, which if they turn it around by revealing this massive plot twist? They just earned back AND MORE.

Sold games? Put in the used bin? Cerberus network all over again baby, people buy those used games, they already got their money from producing them, now they get to charge an additional $15 for the actual ending. Cash money.

Well what about the people who sold their games? Wouldn't you go out to buy another copy of one of the greatest games ever that was suddenly vindicated by the most epic twist in videogame interactive storytelling history? Especially since now with an ending suited to it, it's perfect? They just sold the same game to a person TWICE. Jackpot.

Lost reputation due to the worst ending in videogame history? Not quite, it's now being actually advertised as "The Most Talked About Ending in Years!" and there's no advertisement like free advertisement, and you KNOW people will buy it out of morbid cuiriousity to see if the ending is really that bad, and plenty will remember the good parts and think "Hmm, that game was fantastic for 98%" and potentially go back to buy the other two. Ca-CHING!

And the prestige! (not the Christopher Nolan flick) Bioware suddenly will be rocketed to the top again as brilliant storytellers, completely vindicated in the eyes of even their most curmudgeonly fans after the supposed fiasco of DA2, as well as having pulled off a plot twist that would make M. Night Shamaylan cry in jealousy, something other developers will dream of copying, but being completely unable to, cementing Bioware's reputation as tops in the videogame storytelling biz. EA will have conquered their reputation as this evil monolithic company, concerned only with making money (yet ironically, will be making more bank than ever, hmm funny, seems people don't mind that when they get what they want out of it.)

And revealing something this big? After the treatment the ending got on the news, you can BET this will be plastered EVERYWHERE. Yet more free advertisement. Not to mention everyone and their literature professor will be talking about it and dissecting it ala Kubrickian methods for years to come (just like we are now) they will have cemented their place as videogame legends.

Not to mention this will be a HUGE jumping off point for an entire FRANCHISE, Mass Effect just became mainstream, nearly as much as Star Trek and Star Wars, with a feature length movie, comic books, videogames, statuettes, three award winning games, the top of their respective markets, novels, patches, tee shirts, anime, all dragged into the limelight.

Think about it greedily if you must, EA is full of smart, undeniably greedy people, do you honestly think they would possibly turn down a gold mine like this, with literally NO downside? With movies and anime and novels and every kind of merchandising swag under the sun coming out with the Mass Effect name, ME is a franchise they are pushing HARD. IT is a win-win suitation for them, if Bioware DIDN'T do it or plan it, EA would be leaning on them anyway TO do it, their artistic integrity be damned! And yet Bioware gets to pull off a first in gaming, a truly interactive, involving storytelling experience, involving REAL roleplaying (not just Paragon and Renegade choices) with actual interprative vaue just like any well written novel, and a genuine artistic value.

It is literally a win-win suitation. And If I can think of it, you can bet your bollocks that EA and Bioware would.

Modifié par Arian Dynas, 21 mai 2012 - 04:29 .


#79
EnvyTB075

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And whats to say BW wouldn't have added on the "actual ending" as either free or paid (most likely free) if IT turned out to be true...

#80
G Kevin

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LucasShark wrote...
So a pinnacle of interactive story-telling ends with non-interactive cutscenes... that is... so idiotic.


Meh, I woudn't call Mass Effect as being the pinnacle of interactive story-telling.

#81
Arian Dynas

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LucasShark wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

LucasShark wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

And the common answer from all pro-ITers is EC will add that ending... Like it's doing now.


They are adding CUTSCENES!  Not gameplay.


http://social.biowar.../index/12095313 

This is an example of how the ending can play out in exclusively cutscenes using indoctrination theory. Point proven, it makes no difference if it is gameplay or cutscenes. I also might add they have never actually stated whether they are adding cutscenes, interactive portions OR gameplay.


So a pinnacle of interactive story-telling ends with non-interactive cutscenes... that is... so idiotic.


For one, if you read it you will note that it is written in such a way as to change depending on the choices and actions of the player, just like every other cutscene in the game, it's part dialogue, part cutscene affected by EMS, specific assets and storyline choices. The very idea is that it is interactive.

But morever, that is not important, for the simple fact that it is an example, not sacrosanct, this is me proving the point that it can work and is capable of being interactive depending on the choices of the player, I do not work for Bioware, so I have no way in hell of knowing what they ARE planning for the EC, for all we know they could be calling what the entire end was from Harbinger's beam onward an "interactive cutscene" so we could be getting more of that, we could be getting just cutscenes, we could be getting more gameplay, we don't know, and they have not explicitly stated in one direction or another.

Modifié par Arian Dynas, 21 mai 2012 - 04:15 .


#82
kglaser

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balance5050 wrote...

kglaser wrote...

Years ago, I was on a mailing list for "The Simpsons".  There were two factions:  those who were trying to find out where Springfield really was, just for fun, and those who got furious and kept yelling "SPRINGFIELD ISN'T ANYWHERE! Why are you debating this you morons!!"

Sorry, just got some deja vu...carry on =]


Didn't Matt Groening actually reveal which Springfield it was recently?


Oh, no...if he did, he's jumped the shark for me, big time...I don't wanna know! :pinched:

#83
carrmatt91

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EnvyTB075 wrote...

And whats to say BW wouldn't have added on the "actual ending" as either free or paid (most likely free) if IT turned out to be true...


what about people without internet connections?

#84
ThisOneIsPunny

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LucasShark wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

LucasShark wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

And the common answer from all pro-ITers is EC will add that ending... Like it's doing now.


They are adding CUTSCENES!  Not gameplay.


http://social.biowar.../index/12095313 

This is an example of how the ending can play out in exclusively cutscenes using indoctrination theory. Point proven, it makes no difference if it is gameplay or cutscenes. I also might add they have never actually stated whether they are adding cutscenes, interactive portions OR gameplay.


So a pinnacle of interactive story-telling ends with non-interactive cutscenes... that is... so idiotic.

That's an example. That example is better than a pinnacle of interactive story-telling ending by breaking the fourth wall and prompting us to buy future dlc.

That's just my opinion though.

#85
LucasShark

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... "The Most Talked About Ending in Years!"

And if that alone doesn't make you want to drink some marketing guy's blood I don't know what will.

#86
Arian Dynas

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carrmatt91 wrote...

EnvyTB075 wrote...

And whats to say BW wouldn't have added on the "actual ending" as either free or paid (most likely free) if IT turned out to be true...


what about people without internet connections?


As cruel as it may sound, to EA, they aren't a market worth pursuing, they aren't going to buy DLC, they aren't going to play multiplayer, therefore there is little to no profit to be made in bothering with them.

Think of it selfishly if you must, EA is greedy, not evil, which would you rather do? Make alot of money? Or not?

#87
Mcfly616

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Who ever said it was an ending? I think the IT is far better than what we got.....but idk any theorists that think its an ending.....the whole point to IT is that there's still more to come(probably dlc)....


So what was the point to this thread again?

#88
oopssorryy

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If IT is true, then I see a ME4 coming. Yes you are in the midst of a battle, with your squad down ( I took people with me that I didn't care if they bit the dust) and Shepard is injured as well. Ever since I saw the end I've been thinking that EA is milking the ME series for all she's got, which means extending the amount of games it will take to finally get to the ending. If ME3 is the end and EC proves IT then we will see a ton of DLC which we will most likely have to pay for.... Can you say Moo?

#89
Oni Changas

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"STEEEEEEEEEEEEVE!!!"
How is "no ending" a "conclusive ending?" 

No wait, don't bother."

It LEADS to one

i.e. its BioWare's job to come up with one based on the established evidence. So here's The Indoctrination Theory.

































And here's your head. Anymore questions?

#90
Oldbones2

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LucasShark wrote...

Okay: Let's say everything the IT theorists are spouting is right: their little theory is correct and I'm stupid, and my mother was a ****, and everything else they've told me is correct.  And I'm being VERY generous here considering the last piece of "evidence" I saw was a bloke realizing that the citadel tower chamber kind of sort of looks like a reaper if you squint and have pink-eye.

Now here's the problem I want them all to admit to right now: IT IS NOT, repeat IS NOT an ending.

Should IT be correct, and you "win" by choosing destroy the reapers, and Shepard wakes up: where do we wake up?  We are plonked back onto Earth, MID-BATTLE no less, with a no doubt wounded team and reaprs everywhere.  This isn't a situation that five minuts, or een 10 minutes of cutscenes or quick time events could fix.  This is still a story written into a hole.

This will lead to one of two things: more post-credits DLC content, which will likely be paid for, or a new game entirely.  This means Bioware lied, fundamentally in nearly all their promo material and all the raming that went into ME3.  It also means, that if these items are not free, I will not get them, and even then: they will have to be delivered to my door, with chocolates and appologies before I purchase another Bioware product ever again.


I think so of the most hard core IT'ers, are just fans who simply cannot accept that such a terrible ending is real.

And frankly, what they propose is far superior to what BW gave us.

It has every bit as much conclusion as RGB and the Catalyst.

#91
Zardoc

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LucasShark wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

LucasShark wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

And the common answer from all pro-ITers is EC will add that ending... Like it's doing now.


They are adding CUTSCENES!  Not gameplay.


http://social.biowar.../index/12095313 

This is an example of how the ending can play out in exclusively cutscenes using indoctrination theory. Point proven, it makes no difference if it is gameplay or cutscenes. I also might add they have never actually stated whether they are adding cutscenes, interactive portions OR gameplay.


So a pinnacle of interactive story-telling ends with non-interactive cutscenes... that is... so idiotic.


That train left the station the moment auto dialogue was put into the game. 

#92
EnvyTB075

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carrmatt91 wrote...

EnvyTB075 wrote...

And whats to say BW wouldn't have added on the "actual ending" as either free or paid (most likely free) if IT turned out to be true...


what about people without internet connections?


Didn't stop them with the MP integration. I don't like it either but thats industry standard theses days.

#93
Guest_Opsrbest_*

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Zardoc wrote...

LucasShark wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

LucasShark wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

And the common answer from all pro-ITers is EC will add that ending... Like it's doing now.


They are adding CUTSCENES!  Not gameplay.


http://social.biowar.../index/12095313 

This is an example of how the ending can play out in exclusively cutscenes using indoctrination theory. Point proven, it makes no difference if it is gameplay or cutscenes. I also might add they have never actually stated whether they are adding cutscenes, interactive portions OR gameplay.


So a pinnacle of interactive story-telling ends with non-interactive cutscenes... that is... so idiotic.


That train left the station the moment auto dialogue was put into the game. 

I'm actually really enjoying the no decisions option.

#94
carrmatt91

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Arian Dynas wrote...

carrmatt91 wrote...

EnvyTB075 wrote...

And whats to say BW wouldn't have added on the "actual ending" as either free or paid (most likely free) if IT turned out to be true...


what about people without internet connections?


As cruel as it may sound, to EA, they aren't a market worth pursuing, they aren't going to buy DLC, they aren't going to play multiplayer, therefore there is little to no profit to be made in bothering with them.

Think of it selfishly if you must, EA is greedy, not evil, which would you rather do? Make alot of money? Or not?


this is why i don't really like EA, its a games company run by 'bankers', i like the games but i don't like the producer, i just know if i want to buy any modern EA game theres going to be an online pass, and a string of day one dlc, and starting with their past few games - microtransactions, they even thought about charging money to reload your gun in bf3. im not going to pretend im going to stop buying from them because they own a few decent developers that make games i enjoy, but does that mean i respect EA at all? no. but do they need my respect?guess not but thats life.

EnvyTB075 wrote... 

Didn't stop them with the MP integration. I don't like it either but thats industry standard theses days.

 

i like the ME3 multiplayer, i just think its a bit bad how its a necessity to play it to get the best ending, especially to those without internet. (wasn't it a bug or something? i cant remember)

Modifié par carrmatt91, 21 mai 2012 - 04:30 .


#95
Jackums

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Arian Dynas wrote...

I also might add they have never actually stated whether they are adding cutscenes, interactive portions OR gameplay.

Yes, they have.

"What is BioWare adding to the ending with the Extended Cut DLC?
BioWare will expanding on the ending to Mass Effect 3 by creating additional cinematics and epilogue scenes to the existing ending sequences."

http://blog.bioware....3-extended-cut/

#96
robertm2

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dont put it past ea and bioware to make the game not actually be over so they can charge you money later to see how the game really ends. Haven't you heard? Its the new cool thing for developers to do!

#97
EnvyTB075

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carrmatt91 wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

carrmatt91 wrote...

EnvyTB075 wrote...

And whats to say BW wouldn't have added on the "actual ending" as either free or paid (most likely free) if IT turned out to be true...


what about people without internet connections?


As cruel as it may sound, to EA, they aren't a market worth pursuing, they aren't going to buy DLC, they aren't going to play multiplayer, therefore there is little to no profit to be made in bothering with them.

Think of it selfishly if you must, EA is greedy, not evil, which would you rather do? Make alot of money? Or not?


this is why i don't really like EA, its a games company run by 'bankers', i like the games but i don't like the producer, i just know if i want to buy any modern EA game theres going to be an online pass, and a string of day one dlc, and starting with their past few games - microtransactions, they even thought about charging money to reload your gun in bf3. im not going to pretend im going to stop buying from them because they own a few decent developers that make games i enjoy, but does that mean i respect EA at all? no. but do they need my respect?guess not but thats life.


There aren't many people that will disagree. I'm just saying that the extended ending could have been a possibility.

#98
dreman9999

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LucasShark wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

And the common answer from all pro-ITers is EC will add that ending... Like it's doing now.


They are adding CUTSCENES!  Not gameplay.

With all the people comfered on it...It's more than just cut scenes.

#99
Arian Dynas

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carrmatt91 wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

carrmatt91 wrote...

EnvyTB075 wrote...

And whats to say BW wouldn't have added on the "actual ending" as either free or paid (most likely free) if IT turned out to be true...


what about people without internet connections?


As cruel as it may sound, to EA, they aren't a market worth pursuing, they aren't going to buy DLC, they aren't going to play multiplayer, therefore there is little to no profit to be made in bothering with them.

Think of it selfishly if you must, EA is greedy, not evil, which would you rather do? Make alot of money? Or not?


this is why i don't really like EA, its a games company run by 'bankers', i like the games but i don't like the producer, i just know if i want to buy any modern EA game theres going to be an online pass, and a string of day one dlc, and starting with their past few games - microtransactions, they even thought about charging money to reload your gun in bf3. im not going to pretend im going to stop buying from them because they own a few decent developers that make games i enjoy, but does that mean i respect EA at all? no. but do they need my respect?guess not but thats life.


Friend, I am going to be blunt with you.

That's buisness.

Electronic Arts and even Bioware themselves are buisnesses, and buisnesses are going to make descisions that benefit them, otherwise they can't make money, even the ones that treat their customers well do so for buisness reasons, since a customer who likes the service will come back. Do I think they deserve your respect? Not really. But they do things for a logical reason that all companies do.

#100
dreman9999

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LucasShark wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

LucasShark wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

And the common answer from all pro-ITers is EC will add that ending... Like it's doing now.


They are adding CUTSCENES!  Not gameplay.


http://social.biowar.../index/12095313 

This is an example of how the ending can play out in exclusively cutscenes using indoctrination theory. Point proven, it makes no difference if it is gameplay or cutscenes. I also might add they have never actually stated whether they are adding cutscenes, interactive portions OR gameplay.


So a pinnacle of interactive story-telling ends with non-interactive cutscenes... that is... so idiotic.

Who said it would be non-interactive....It can esaily be interactive dialogue.