307 réponses à ce sujet

[DarkBladeX98]

Without hope we have no future

[LucasShark]

dreman9999 wrote...

LucasShark wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

And the common answer from all pro-ITers is EC will add that ending... Like it's doing now.

They are adding CUTSCENES!  Not gameplay.

With all the people comfered on it...It's more than just cut scenes.

Not really: do you realize how many man-hours go into making a few seconds of cutscene in a game like ME3?

[Arian Dynas]

JackumsD wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

I also might add they have never actually stated whether they are adding cutscenes, interactive portions OR gameplay.

Yes, they have.

"What is BioWare adding to the ending with the Extended Cut DLC?
BioWare will expanding on the ending to Mass Effect 3 by creating additional cinematics and epilogue scenes to the existing ending sequences."

http://blog.bioware....3-extended-cut/

I'm aware, I've read it, and I've also read where they have changed their mind forward and backward since, claiming several things and then discounting them.

"Epilogue scenes", define for me what an epilogue scene is. We don't know what they are going to add is my point.

Morever "additonal cinematics" ok, no problem there, I don't disbeleive it.

They also never explicitly state "Oh by the way, we're only adding cutscenes that mean nothing so that's all your getting".

And more to the point, I myself have written an entire script for the fun of it showing how they could end Mass Effect 3 with cutscenes and answer most of the questions they need to as WELL as set up for a sequel, and bringing a conclusion to Shepard's story, so whether it is cutscenes or not doesn't really matter one way or another.

For all we know their idea of "additional cutscenes" could be something as simple as; "Catalyst scene ends, cut to black, pan down to Shepard lying in london rubble, camera pans into his face, eyes open, bearing the telltale mark of indoctrination, now glowing bright blue as TIM's. Cut to black. Cue credits."

But I don't doubt they're doing more than that.

Modifié par Arian Dynas, 21 mai 2012 - 04:39 .

[BunBun299]

I'm an IT skeptic. I see holes in the theory. Then again, I can see how it might have potential. If nothing else, its a get out of jail free card for Bioware. Keep their "artistic integrety" by not "changing" the ending, just revealing it was all a Reaper induced nightmare, and give us a real ending. Bioware gets to save face, because they can claim they intended it all along, and we forgive them, assuming the additions are actually good.

And if they don't use IT in the extended cut, well then, they're going to lose a large portion of their fanbase. No amount of "clarity" or "context" can make the existing ending not suck.

[Jackums]

Arian Dynas wrote...

JackumsD wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

I also might add they have never actually stated whether they are adding cutscenes, interactive portions OR gameplay.

Yes, they have.

"What is BioWare adding to the ending with the Extended Cut DLC?
BioWare will expanding on the ending to Mass Effect 3 by creating additional cinematics and epilogue scenes to the existing ending sequences."

http://blog.bioware....3-extended-cut/

I'm aware, I've read it, and I've also read where they have changed their mind forward and backward since, claiming several things and then discounting them.

"Epilogue scenes", define for me what an epilogue scene is. We don't know what they are going to add is my point.

Morever "additonal cinematics" ok, no problem there, I don't disbeleive it.

They also never explicitly state "Oh by the way, we're only adding cutscenes that mean nothing so that's all your getting".

And more to the point, I myself have written an entire script for the fun of it showing how they could end Mass Effect 3 with cutscenes and answer most of the questions they need to as WELL as set up for a sequel, and bringing a conclusion to Shepard's story, so whether it is cutscenes or not doesn't really matter one way or another.

For all we know their idea of "additional cutscenes" could be something as simple as; "Catalyst scene ends, cut to black, pan down to Shepard lying in london rubble, camera pans into his face, eyes open, bearing the telltale mark of indoctrination, now glowing bright blue as TIM's. Cut to black. Cue credits."

Just correcting your mistake.

[Arian Dynas]

JackumsD wrote...
*snip*
Just correcting your mistake.

I will admit I failed to make myself transparently clear.

[PsyrenY]

There is no statement from Bioware saying that EC is only cutscenes with no gameplay. "Additional cinematics and epilogue scenes" says nothing one way or the other, because a gameplay sequence or dialogue wheel can still be called a "scene.") I think starting off by closing potential avenues of exposition is counterproductive, and only serves to fan the flames of hysteria surrounding EC.

[Tom Lehrer]

balance5050 wrote...

Tom Lehrer wrote...

Mac Walters can't write a decent comic and people still think he could do something like IT?

Really? I thought they were ok....

Even if they were 'ok' they show the writing skill Mac has. He might be slightly better then a random guy off the street but he does not have the writing skill, balls, or genius needed to think up or implement somethign like IT. 

[TX-Toast]

Mcfly616 wrote...

Who ever said it was an ending? I think the IT is far better than what we got.....but idk any theorists that think its an ending.....the whole point to IT is that there's still more to come(probably dlc)....


So what was the point to this thread again?

To **** on the IT and ITers.

[Leafs43]

 Harbinger takes a money shot to the face, Shepard's squadmates help him up and get rescued by Steeeeeeeeeeve.




Problem?

[PsyrenY]

TX-Toast wrote...

To **** on the IT and ITers.

To be fair, IT deserves it.

[MongoNYC]

LucasShark wrote...

Okay: Let's say everything the IT theorists are spouting is right: their little theory is correct and I'm stupid, and my mother was a ****, and everything else they've told me is correct.  And I'm being VERY generous here considering the last piece of "evidence" I saw was a bloke realizing that the citadel tower chamber kind of sort of looks like a reaper if you squint and have pink-eye.

Now here's the problem I want them all to admit to right now: IT IS NOT, repeat IS NOT an ending.

Should IT be correct, and you "win" by choosing destroy the reapers, and Shepard wakes up: where do we wake up?  We are plonked back onto Earth, MID-BATTLE no less, with a no doubt wounded team and reaprs everywhere.  This isn't a situation that five minuts, or een 10 minutes of cutscenes or quick time events could fix.  This is still a story written into a hole.

This will lead to one of two things: more post-credits DLC content, which will likely be paid for, or a new game entirely.  This means Bioware lied, fundamentally in nearly all their promo material and all the raming that went into ME3.  It also means, that if these items are not free, I will not get them, and even then: they will have to be delivered to my door, with chocolates and appologies before I purchase another Bioware product ever again.

I don't think it's a matter of there not being an ending if the IT is true.  If it is, it just adds to the notion that EA rushed Bioware before they could finish the game and impliment the indocrination mechanic that would tie it all together overtly.

Believing the IT is in direct correlation to how horrific the current ending is - - it doesn't make any sense in the context of what came before it. 

You're in the middle of a third person shooter, rushing to the only means of accessing the key to unleashing the great massive weapon you helped construct and then POOF.  Hit by a white light and all of a sudden the entire mechanics of that system is gone, leaving you with a God gun that doesn't run out of bullets, armor that's burned and useless and enemies that are nerfed in comparision to their comrades. 

(This is in complete contradiction to an earlier mission on Rancoch where, if hit by a Reaper destoyer beam, a Reaper class with less powerful firepower than Harbinger and his weaponry, you instantly die.) 

You are then teleported to a part of the Citadel that doesn't resemble anything you've seen before and confronted with someone who was supposed to be dead (Major Coates mentioned no survivors) but followed behind and reached your common destination before you (despite their being no other way to the room you meet up in).

Then, you have to convince a person who has been a thorn in your side for the entire game to step aside and let you pass.  Instead of complying, he takes control of your mind (despite never having the ability to do so throughout the previous two episodes) and tries to convince you to side with him.  If you did the proper responses during the entire game, you can then watch him kill himself in the same manner that your nemesis Saren did from a previous installment or shoot him with the God gun.

Then, there's the Starchild, the deux ex machina to end all deux ex machina.  Because they wrote themselves into a corner (or perhaps they didn't want to admit that someone leaked the script) they went with a tried and true literary land mine to explain the motivations for the Reapers, an explanation that is so circular in logic that even the most inexperienced of creative writers can see how asinine and lazy the technique is.

And despite every previous conversation precident set over the course of three games, where you can ask anything of anyone - - like how a salarian doctor knows Gilbert and Sullivan or demanding an Asari consort to give you free sex after prophesying about how awesome you are, you cannot question this god-child, use Paragon/Renegade interrupts to influence the outcome, or shoot the kid in ultimate disagreement to the silly things he just said.

Instead you are faced with a life-sized version of the dialogue wheel so famously featured throughout game and told, in essence, "Pick one path before time runs out."

After doing so, you are treated to an ending cut scene sequence that is meant to pull at your heart strings but in actuality makes things more muddled and confusing.  The squad that followed you into the depths of hell, and never gave up depsite the horrible odds?  They fled Earth in the Normandy.  The weapon that's supposed to level the playing field with the Reapers?  It destroys the main mode of transport used by the galaxy's major species for trade, travel and intersellar communications.

Want to reload a previous save to see what would happen if you chose differently?  Don't bother, it's the same ending just in a different color.

And, oh yeah, your Shepard is killed in the process, unless of course you received some ambigious 30 second clip that has an N7 dog tag rising with your Shepard's inhaling of breath as it entered his/her lungs after awaking in rubble which seems to resemble the streets of London, not the Citadel.

Also, don't forget Buzz Aldrin's epic cameo at the end as well.  A perfect cap to a perfect ending.

So, if someone wants to hold out hope that this abomination of an ending is not all that it seems, let them.  People around the world believe in a magic man in the sky that grants wishes to them if they ask him real nice and gentle like.

Let them believe in the IT as well.

[DJBare]

LucasShark wrote...
Should IT be correct, and you "win" by choosing destroy the reapers, and Shepard wakes up: where do we wake up?  We are plonked back onto Earth, MID-BATTLE no less, with a no doubt wounded team and reaprs everywhere.  This isn't a situation that five minuts, or een 10 minutes of cutscenes or quick time events could fix.  This is still a story written into a hole.

Kinda missed the crucial point, if I.T is true, then Shepard never left London, never made it to the citadel, everything is playing out in Shepard's mind as s/he lies unconscious in a pile of rubble, if I.T is true then the reapers are still reaping, this is not the end of Shepard's story, think of EC as ME3 part 2, whether I.T is the angle Bioware are going for remains to be seen.

[Arian Dynas]

Tom Lehrer wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Tom Lehrer wrote...

Mac Walters can't write a decent comic and people still think he could do something like IT?

Really? I thought they were ok....

Even if they were 'ok' they show the writing skill Mac has. He might be slightly better then a random guy off the street but he does not have the writing skill, balls, or genius needed to think up or implement somethign like IT. 

Well for one, he didn't write the whole thing, that was done via a writing team.

For two, Walters has a psychology degree, meaning he knows how to mess with people's minds.

For three, Bioware was FOUNDED by two MDs, so they have more than enough psychological knowledge to do so.

For four, Casey Hudson is on record in a January interveiw as having explicitly stated he wants the player to feel what Shepard feels.

For five, the Final Hours app states that they were working on a indoctrination mechanic they later abandoned (never states if they abandoned the idea(

 and for six, Casey Hudson was involved in KoTOR, the most beloved videogame plot twist of all time.

Morever, screwing with perceptions of people's reality in videogames is like a trademark for Bioware, they do it in nearly every game they make. Including this one. At least twice.

[UrgentArchengel]

Most, or at least 95% of ITer's don't go around calling people idiots and whatever they calls your mom. And yes, IT isn't an ending, it's either a cliffhanger or the point leading to the ending. It's pretty obvious once you really get into the breath scene, and you look at the background (beyond common rubble), you see a flipped Mako, and a part of looks to belong to the conduit. I'd say you wake up outside the conduit as if just after getting nearly blasted by Harby.

[Arian Dynas]

UrgentArchengel wrote...

Most, or at least 95% of ITer's don't go around calling people idiots and whatever they calls your mom. And yes, IT isn't an ending, it's either a cliffhanger or the point leading to the ending. It's pretty obvious once you really get into the breath scene, and you look at the background (beyond common rubble), you see a flipped Mako, and a part of looks to belong to the conduit. I'd say you wake up outside the conduit as if just after getting nearly blasted by Harby.

Hmm, perhaps it's because we come off as snappish or defensive perhaps? To be blunt, this post does seem a bit short with the fellow.

[Swimming Ferret]

Dude, stop trying to use logic on IT-ers. They proved incredibly resilient to it.

[sistersafetypin]

antony1197 wrote...

The sad thing is NONE of them ever can admit it...

I'm hoping that there are a few of them out there that do admit this. They're just being... unreasonably silent in the face of their more fanatical believers.

That said, this has always been my main problem with I.T. since the beginning. If Bioware had released a game without an ending, but with a truly elaborate Sixth Sense type ending in the works... They wouldn't have spent all of their time talking through both sides of their mouth to explain how hurt they all are by fan reaction, because Artistic Integrity!

[Arian Dynas]

Swimming Ferret wrote...

Dude, stop trying to use logic on IT-ers. They proved incredibly resilient to it.

Now that's just unecessary.

Last I recall when you originally came into the IDT thread to greet us, you were quite polite, what happened?

[Arian Dynas]

sistersafetypin wrote...

antony1197 wrote...

The sad thing is NONE of them ever can admit it...

I'm hoping that there are a few of them out there that do admit this. They're just being... unreasonably silent in the face of their more fanatical believers.

That said, this has always been my main problem with I.T. since the beginning. If Bioware had released a game without an ending, but with a truly elaborate Sixth Sense type ending in the works... They wouldn't have spent all of their time talking through both sides of their mouth to explain how hurt they all are by fan reaction, because Artistic Integrity!

Read this; 
http://social.biowar...2340/1#12162585 

[PsyrenY]

DJBare wrote...

Whether I.T is the angle Bioware are going for remains to be seen.

It's not. If it was, Control and Synthesis - the endings that represent losing the game according to IT - would not give this same message.

[Leafs43]

sistersafetypin wrote...

antony1197 wrote...

The sad thing is NONE of them ever can admit it...

I'm hoping that there are a few of them out there that do admit this. They're just being... unreasonably silent in the face of their more fanatical believers.

That said, this has always been my main problem with I.T. since the beginning. If Bioware had released a game without an ending, but with a truly elaborate Sixth Sense type ending in the works... They wouldn't have spent all of their time talking through both sides of their mouth to explain how hurt they all are by fan reaction, because Artistic Integrity!

What's there to admit?

Shepard breaks out of his unconcious funk and gets helped to his feert.  Harbinger is pissed and gets ready to blast him and joker puts a thanix shot right in Harbinger's pie hole which makes Harbinger's blast whiz by Shepard and company.  

*queue shuttle rescue or a bolt to the conduit while Harbinger is realing*




I mean I guess we are going to have to use your imagination for you.

[Swimming Ferret]

Arian Dynas wrote...

Swimming Ferret wrote...

Dude, stop trying to use logic on IT-ers. They proved incredibly resilient to it.

Now that's just unecessary.

Last I recall when you originally came into the IDT thread to greet us, you were quite polite, what happened?

I just got fed up with all the attacks and repetedly being called a troll if I disagreed. That tends to sour your outlook on a groups opinion when you are repetedly degraded by the majority of said group.

Yes, some of you are nice and poliet, but that is a rarity I've found in IT believers. Honestly, if I wanted internet abuse I would go to deviantArt. <_<

[sistersafetypin]

Leafs43 wrote...

sistersafetypin wrote...

antony1197 wrote...

The sad thing is NONE of them ever can admit it...

I'm hoping that there are a few of them out there that do admit this. They're just being... unreasonably silent in the face of their more fanatical believers.

That said, this has always been my main problem with I.T. since the beginning. If Bioware had released a game without an ending, but with a truly elaborate Sixth Sense type ending in the works... They wouldn't have spent all of their time talking through both sides of their mouth to explain how hurt they all are by fan reaction, because Artistic Integrity!

What's there to admit?

Shepard breaks out of his unconcious funk and gets helped to his feert.  Harbinger is pissed and gets ready to blast him and joker puts a thanix shot right in Harbinger's pie hole which makes Harbinger's blast whiz by Shepard and company.  

*queue shuttle rescue or a bolt to the conduit while Harbinger is realing*




I mean I guess we are going to have to use your imagination for you.

Sure you could use your imagination if you find yours lacking. But I don't spend $80 to headcannon my own ending to a Trilogy. And when I am inevitablly forced to headcannon anyway because of the pisspoor ending, I don't attempt to convince everyone else that I am the Messiah and have decoded it all. 

While I don't care either way what you believe, I'm more than a little bit tired of most of you I.T. believers acting like your Theory is a fact written in stone when it is nothing more than a Theory. Not only that, it's theory based on circumstantial evidence based on, a lot of times, the fact that Bioware is lazy and likes to reuse templates.

[Leafs43]

sistersafetypin wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...

sistersafetypin wrote...

antony1197 wrote...

The sad thing is NONE of them ever can admit it...

I'm hoping that there are a few of them out there that do admit this. They're just being... unreasonably silent in the face of their more fanatical believers.

That said, this has always been my main problem with I.T. since the beginning. If Bioware had released a game without an ending, but with a truly elaborate Sixth Sense type ending in the works... They wouldn't have spent all of their time talking through both sides of their mouth to explain how hurt they all are by fan reaction, because Artistic Integrity!

What's there to admit?

Shepard breaks out of his unconcious funk and gets helped to his feert.  Harbinger is pissed and gets ready to blast him and joker puts a thanix shot right in Harbinger's pie hole which makes Harbinger's blast whiz by Shepard and company.  

*queue shuttle rescue or a bolt to the conduit while Harbinger is realing*




I mean I guess we are going to have to use your imagination for you.

Sure you could use your imagination if you find yours lacking. But I don't spend $80 to headcannon my own ending to a Trilogy. And when I am inevitablly forced to headcannon anyway because of the pisspoor ending, I don't attempt to convince everyone else that I am the Messiah and have decoded it all. 

While I don't care either way what you believe, I'm more than a little bit tired of most of you I.T. believers acting like your Theory is a fact written in stone when it is nothing more than a Theory. Not only that, it's theory based on circumstantial evidence based on, a lot of times, the fact that Bioware is lazy and likes to reuse templates.

IT wouldn't be headcanon if correct.


Jesus, how can you not grasp this concept?  If IT is true, IT is the extended cut which you are getting for free.  And it's not an ending, its a plot point in the story.