307 réponses à ce sujet

[ArtGerhardt]

Unholyknight800 wrote...

So why are people still debating IT?

Because it makes more sense than the face-value ending. I'm not Pro or anti-IT, i see both sides of the story.

Ironicly, the IT theory, and the bioware-are-lazy-f***s theory both make sense (IT fitting a little better). Which is why this is all shenanigans.

My gut feeling is that Bioware's time budget was cut short for ME3. I believe due to corperate decisions ME3 was dumbed down. But in my heart i wish IT was real because it would fit perfectly with the entire series, and make the ME plot line one of the most in-depth story lines ever created in video game history.

Throughout my life, i've been more prone to seeing the potential in things rather than the reality.

Modifié par ArtGerhardt, 21 mai 2012 - 06:00 .

[Tom Lehrer]

Arian Dynas wrote...

Well for one, he didn't write the whole thing, that was done via a writing team.

 

Then that would mean the whole team would have had to take part in planing and given BW's history with leaks it is impossible they could keep it under wraps.

Arian Dynas wrote... 
For two, Walters has a psychology degree, meaning he knows how to mess with people's minds.

 

Ive met PhD level psychologiests that know squat and ended up having to work in unrelated fields...such as writing. 

Arian Dynas wrote...  
For three, Bioware was FOUNDED by two MDs, so they have more than enough psychological knowledge to do so.

  

MD's are not trained in psychology nor did BioWares founders have a hand in writing ME.

Arian Dynas wrote...    
For four, Casey Hudson is on record in a January interveiw as having explicitly stated he wants the player to feel what Shepard feels.

    

Vent kid, Kai Leng, and Thessia only annoyed most players while Shepard was eaither mad or sad over them.

Arian Dynas wrote...   
For five, the Final Hours app states that they were working on a indoctrination mechanic they later abandoned (never states if they abandoned the idea(

   

Abandoned  means 
abandoned .

Arian Dynas wrote...  
 and for six, Casey Hudson was involved in KoTOR, the most beloved videogame plot twist of all time.

   

Casey was an art designer not a writer.

Arian Dynas wrote...   
Morever, screwing with perceptions of people's reality in videogames is like a trademark for Bioware, they do it in nearly every game they make. Including this one. At least twice.

BioWare has a great history of plot twists but they nor anyone else has ever withheld the ending from a game and for good reason. They have only lost sales because the ending debacle and only stand the lose more in DLC sales.

Modifié par Tom Lehrer, 21 mai 2012 - 06:07 .

[Leafs43]

LucasShark wrote...


DO you have eyes?
- IT is confirmed in Extended cut
- Therefore: extended cut will drop us back mid-battle,

I follow you up to here.



Then you go total retard here:

- The ending will not come in EX, and it will confirm the current ones are false
- We will therefore have to get another game, or more DLC for the actual ending, and those will not be free

Almost everyone who believes in IT believes Shepard gets up and conludes the game with the real end, all within the extended cut.  No other  DLC, no new game.  Extended cut will contain the real ending.  You'd be hard pressed to find anyone would think the EC would just explain Shepard is indoctrinated and cut to the credits.

Modifié par Leafs43, 21 mai 2012 - 06:03 .

[Qutayba]

Yes, IT creates an unpleasant catch 22. Either BioWare intended to indoctrinate Shepard in order to sell post-credits DLC - in which case they are brilliant but under-handed and greedy - or they hadn't even thought of it - in which case the game's writers lost their skill and common sense at the crucial climax of the series. In any case, the EC, whatever it will contain, makes up in part for either of these possibilities.

[bahamutomega]

LucasShark wrote...

Okay: Let's say everything the IT theorists are spouting is right: their little theory is correct and I'm stupid, and my mother was a ****, and everything else they've told me is correct.  And I'm being VERY generous here considering the last piece of "evidence" I saw was a bloke realizing that the citadel tower chamber kind of sort of looks like a reaper if you squint and have pink-eye.

Now here's the problem I want them all to admit to right now: IT IS NOT, repeat IS NOT an ending.

Should IT be correct, and you "win" by choosing destroy the reapers, and Shepard wakes up: where do we wake up?  We are plonked back onto Earth, MID-BATTLE no less, with a no doubt wounded team and reaprs everywhere.  This isn't a situation that five minuts, or een 10 minutes of cutscenes or quick time events could fix.  This is still a story written into a hole.

This will lead to one of two things: more post-credits DLC content, which will likely be paid for, or a new game entirely.  This means Bioware lied, fundamentally in nearly all their promo material and all the raming that went into ME3.  It also means, that if these items are not free, I will not get them, and even then: they will have to be delivered to my door, with chocolates and appologies before I purchase another Bioware product ever again.

first off, not everyone thinks you are an idiot for not believing the IT.  however, i will tell you this much - you certainly sound like an idiot.  did you even watch through the IT videos?  in all of the discussions i have seen about the IT, i have never once read that i need to squint and have pink-eye to see something.  all of the evidence is there.  if you choose not to believe it, that is your choice.

i have never heard anyone claim that the IT is THE end.  in fact, most of the "pro-IT" crown seems to feel we still got short-changed!  i'll explain it to you simply, so you don't jump to the conclusion that you need to turn this message upside down and read backwards to understand it: according to the IT, there is still something to come following the ending of the story as presented on the disc(s) we currently have.

i also firmly believe the following to be true: the EC does not need until summer to be released - i firmly believe BioWare and/or EA cut the "EC" before production to sell to us later.  only they couldn't sell it to us before because A) the Day One DLC fiasco and the outright chaos that followed the launch as the ending was discovered.  with the player base up in arms over the ending (whether for or against it), BioWare and EA could not release another $10 DLC and expect it to be successful.

once again: you are not an idiot.  but you are sure doing a successful imitation with a thread like this one.

[Swimming Ferret]

LucasShark wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...

LucasShark wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...


IT wouldn't be headcanon if correct.


Jesus, how can you not grasp this concept?  If IT is true, IT is the extended cut which you are getting for free.  And it's not an ending, its a plot point in the story.

How can you not get this concept?  We are pissed because we were promised an ending, which we did not get, if IT is extended cut, we will not get, and then must pay more for.

If you're paying for extended cut you're doing something terribly wrong because extended cut is free.

DO you have eyes?
- IT is confirmed in Extended cut
- Therefore: extended cut will drop us back mid-battle, with no proper ending
- The ending will not come in EX, and it will confirm the current ones are false
- We will therefore have to get another game, or more DLC for the actual ending, and those will not be free.

clear enough?

Source, or it didn't happen.

[Elyiia]

Swimming Ferret wrote...

LucasShark wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...

LucasShark wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...


IT wouldn't be headcanon if correct.


Jesus, how can you not grasp this concept?  If IT is true, IT is the extended cut which you are getting for free.  And it's not an ending, its a plot point in the story.

How can you not get this concept?  We are pissed because we were promised an ending, which we did not get, if IT is extended cut, we will not get, and then must pay more for.

If you're paying for extended cut you're doing something terribly wrong because extended cut is free.

DO you have eyes?
- IT is confirmed in Extended cut
- Therefore: extended cut will drop us back mid-battle, with no proper ending
- The ending will not come in EX, and it will confirm the current ones are false
- We will therefore have to get another game, or more DLC for the actual ending, and those will not be free.

clear enough?

Source, or it didn't happen.

And then you have to consider ME3 is the last Shepard game. So another game means a new hero to finish Shepard's story?

[LucasShark]

Leafs43 wrote...

LucasShark wrote...


DO you have eyes?
- IT is confirmed in Extended cut
- Therefore: extended cut will drop us back mid-battle,

I follow you up to here.



Then you go total retard here:

- The ending will not come in EX, and it will confirm the current ones are false
- We will therefore have to get another game, or more DLC for the actual ending, and those will not be free

Almost everyone who believes in IT believes Shepard gets up and conludes the game with the real end, all within the extended cut.  No other  DLC, no new game.  Extended cut will contain the real ending.  You'd be hard pressed to find anyone would think the EC would just explain Shepard is indoctrinated and cut to the credits.

Extended cut was NOT planned: therefore it is being produced in the short few months since the backlash to it's assumably summer release date: this is not sufficient time in my view to produce an entire gameplay-ready climax to ME 3.  It is sufficient to generate cutscenes: which:
- If they do conclude the story, will be incredibly disappointing, as it means what could have been the greatest video-game story eer ends as a non-interactive slideshow
- If they do not conclude the story, which is my feeling, as all they claim to add is additional clarification: then that leads to my conclusion above: either more DLC or an entirely new game.

[Leafs43]

LucasShark wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...

LucasShark wrote...


DO you have eyes?
- IT is confirmed in Extended cut
- Therefore: extended cut will drop us back mid-battle,

I follow you up to here.



Then you go total retard here:

- The ending will not come in EX, and it will confirm the current ones are false
- We will therefore have to get another game, or more DLC for the actual ending, and those will not be free

Almost everyone who believes in IT believes Shepard gets up and conludes the game with the real end, all within the extended cut.  No other  DLC, no new game.  Extended cut will contain the real ending.  You'd be hard pressed to find anyone would think the EC would just explain Shepard is indoctrinated and cut to the credits.

Extended cut was NOT planned: therefore it is being produced in the short few months since the backlash to it's assumably summer release date: this is not sufficient time in my view to produce an entire gameplay-ready climax to ME 3.  It is sufficient to generate cutscenes: which:
- If they do conclude the story, will be incredibly disappointing, as it means what could have been the greatest video-game story eer ends as a non-interactive slideshow
- If they do not conclude the story, which is my feeling, as all they claim to add is additional clarification: then that leads to my conclusion above: either more DLC or an entirely new game.

There are plenty of tweets showing something was planned pre release.  To deny this is just being intellectually dishonest.

And for IT to be correct, it had to of been pre-planned.


I think you are just against IT to just be against it.  It's pretty obvious you haven't done a smidgen of reading on the topic.

Modifié par Leafs43, 21 mai 2012 - 06:21 .

[LucasShark]

bahamutomega wrote...

LucasShark wrote...

Okay: Let's say everything the IT theorists are spouting is right: their little theory is correct and I'm stupid, and my mother was a ****, and everything else they've told me is correct.  And I'm being VERY generous here considering the last piece of "evidence" I saw was a bloke realizing that the citadel tower chamber kind of sort of looks like a reaper if you squint and have pink-eye.

Now here's the problem I want them all to admit to right now: IT IS NOT, repeat IS NOT an ending.

Should IT be correct, and you "win" by choosing destroy the reapers, and Shepard wakes up: where do we wake up?  We are plonked back onto Earth, MID-BATTLE no less, with a no doubt wounded team and reaprs everywhere.  This isn't a situation that five minuts, or een 10 minutes of cutscenes or quick time events could fix.  This is still a story written into a hole.

This will lead to one of two things: more post-credits DLC content, which will likely be paid for, or a new game entirely.  This means Bioware lied, fundamentally in nearly all their promo material and all the raming that went into ME3.  It also means, that if these items are not free, I will not get them, and even then: they will have to be delivered to my door, with chocolates and appologies before I purchase another Bioware product ever again.

first off, not everyone thinks you are an idiot for not believing the IT.  however, i will tell you this much - you certainly sound like an idiot.  did you even watch through the IT videos?  in all of the discussions i have seen about the IT, i have never once read that i need to squint and have pink-eye to see something.  all of the evidence is there.  if you choose not to believe it, that is your choice.

i have never heard anyone claim that the IT is THE end.  in fact, most of the "pro-IT" crown seems to feel we still got short-changed!  i'll explain it to you simply, so you don't jump to the conclusion that you need to turn this message upside down and read backwards to understand it: according to the IT, there is still something to come following the ending of the story as presented on the disc(s) we currently have.

i also firmly believe the following to be true: the EC does not need until summer to be released - i firmly believe BioWare and/or EA cut the "EC" before production to sell to us later.  only they couldn't sell it to us before because A) the Day One DLC fiasco and the outright chaos that followed the launch as the ending was discovered.  with the player base up in arms over the ending (whether for or against it), BioWare and EA could not release another $10 DLC and expect it to be successful.

once again: you are not an idiot.  but you are sure doing a successful imitation with a thread like this one.

Clearly we aren't encountering the same IT-ers then, because that's the least of what's been hurled in my direction.

[LucasShark]

Leafs43 wrote...

LucasShark wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...

LucasShark wrote...


DO you have eyes?
- IT is confirmed in Extended cut
- Therefore: extended cut will drop us back mid-battle,

I follow you up to here.



Then you go total retard here:

- The ending will not come in EX, and it will confirm the current ones are false
- We will therefore have to get another game, or more DLC for the actual ending, and those will not be free

Almost everyone who believes in IT believes Shepard gets up and conludes the game with the real end, all within the extended cut.  No other  DLC, no new game.  Extended cut will contain the real ending.  You'd be hard pressed to find anyone would think the EC would just explain Shepard is indoctrinated and cut to the credits.

Extended cut was NOT planned: therefore it is being produced in the short few months since the backlash to it's assumably summer release date: this is not sufficient time in my view to produce an entire gameplay-ready climax to ME 3.  It is sufficient to generate cutscenes: which:
- If they do conclude the story, will be incredibly disappointing, as it means what could have been the greatest video-game story eer ends as a non-interactive slideshow
- If they do not conclude the story, which is my feeling, as all they claim to add is additional clarification: then that leads to my conclusion above: either more DLC or an entirely new game.

There are plenty of tweets showing something was planned pre release.  To deny this is just being intellectually dishonest.

And for IT to be correct, it had to of been pre-planned.


I think you are just against IT to just be against it.  It's pretty obvious you haven't done a smidgen of reading on the topic.

Ahem: PLANNED DLC DOES NOT EQUAL PLANNED EXTENDED CUT!

As for research: I sat down and watched an hour long video on this rubbish!  I want that hour of my life force back.

[Leafs43]

LucasShark wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...

LucasShark wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...

LucasShark wrote...


DO you have eyes?
- IT is confirmed in Extended cut
- Therefore: extended cut will drop us back mid-battle,

I follow you up to here.



Then you go total retard here:

- The ending will not come in EX, and it will confirm the current ones are false
- We will therefore have to get another game, or more DLC for the actual ending, and those will not be free

Almost everyone who believes in IT believes Shepard gets up and conludes the game with the real end, all within the extended cut.  No other  DLC, no new game.  Extended cut will contain the real ending.  You'd be hard pressed to find anyone would think the EC would just explain Shepard is indoctrinated and cut to the credits.

Extended cut was NOT planned: therefore it is being produced in the short few months since the backlash to it's assumably summer release date: this is not sufficient time in my view to produce an entire gameplay-ready climax to ME 3.  It is sufficient to generate cutscenes: which:
- If they do conclude the story, will be incredibly disappointing, as it means what could have been the greatest video-game story eer ends as a non-interactive slideshow
- If they do not conclude the story, which is my feeling, as all they claim to add is additional clarification: then that leads to my conclusion above: either more DLC or an entirely new game.

There are plenty of tweets showing something was planned pre release.  To deny this is just being intellectually dishonest.

And for IT to be correct, it had to of been pre-planned.


I think you are just against IT to just be against it.  It's pretty obvious you haven't done a smidgen of reading on the topic.

Ahem: PLANNED DLC DOES NOT EQUAL PLANNED EXTENDED CUT!

As for research: I sat down and watched an hour long video on this rubbish!  I want that hour of my life force back.

Wow a whole hour.  

The documentary that explains IT in detail with evidence runs 90 minutes.


You sure have done your studying, lol.....



Sounds like you'd rather have the crappy garbage endings rather than a redo out of spite.  

[LucasShark]

Leafs43 wrote...

LucasShark wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...

LucasShark wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...

LucasShark wrote...


DO you have eyes?
- IT is confirmed in Extended cut
- Therefore: extended cut will drop us back mid-battle,

I follow you up to here.



Then you go total retard here:

- The ending will not come in EX, and it will confirm the current ones are false
- We will therefore have to get another game, or more DLC for the actual ending, and those will not be free

Almost everyone who believes in IT believes Shepard gets up and conludes the game with the real end, all within the extended cut.  No other  DLC, no new game.  Extended cut will contain the real ending.  You'd be hard pressed to find anyone would think the EC would just explain Shepard is indoctrinated and cut to the credits.

Extended cut was NOT planned: therefore it is being produced in the short few months since the backlash to it's assumably summer release date: this is not sufficient time in my view to produce an entire gameplay-ready climax to ME 3.  It is sufficient to generate cutscenes: which:
- If they do conclude the story, will be incredibly disappointing, as it means what could have been the greatest video-game story eer ends as a non-interactive slideshow
- If they do not conclude the story, which is my feeling, as all they claim to add is additional clarification: then that leads to my conclusion above: either more DLC or an entirely new game.

There are plenty of tweets showing something was planned pre release.  To deny this is just being intellectually dishonest.

And for IT to be correct, it had to of been pre-planned.


I think you are just against IT to just be against it.  It's pretty obvious you haven't done a smidgen of reading on the topic.

Ahem: PLANNED DLC DOES NOT EQUAL PLANNED EXTENDED CUT!

As for research: I sat down and watched an hour long video on this rubbish!  I want that hour of my life force back.

Wow a whole hour.  

The documentary that explains IT in detail with evidence runs 90 minutes.


You sure have done your studying, lol.....



Sounds like you'd rather have the crappy garbage endings rather than a redo out of spite.  

No: what I want is not nonsense.

Trying to pull something reasonable out of the nonsense that has come before is stupid, all you will get is more nonsense.

Why would you ask them to just mess with the crap that is there to make it look like it was well thought out instead of just demanding something which is up to the quality of the previous two games?  That logic completely escapes me.

[Jackums]

I honestly feel sorry for the poor gamers that genuinely believe IT. Boy, are they in for a rude awakening.

[LombaxWarrior]

I'm going to ask a stupid question but who are against the IT do you like/understand the endings? Because the IT makes sense to me because the ending seemed rushed.I think that bioware planned for Shepard to be indoctrinated. The ending just made no logical sense and how was the illusive man controlling Shepard and Anderson? If its not indoctrination then what is it did T.I.M find tech beyond the omega 4 relay?
Ohhh by the way since the citadel is blown up couldn't omega be the new citadel

[PsyrenY]

Leafs43 wrote...

Sounds like you'd rather have the crappy garbage endings rather than a redo out of spite.  

If your only idea of a redo is IT, then yes. I'd rather have multiple endings than "it was all a dream and two of your choices are actually traps, lol! Serves you right for not picking red, idiot!"

[Alex_Dur4and]

Encarmine wrote...

IT is the biggest and most extraordinary case of collective denial i have seen come from gaming fans ever in my life.

The inability to accept a product was below expectation has had some marvelous side effects. IT being the biggest one, its like a whacky commune on a forum no less.

Collective Insanity describes very well, the group of people who cannot simply accept Bioware uses them for money and nothing else.

I just can't wait to see on which end this collective denial we will stand when the Extended Cut DLC (which is taking roughtly 5 months to produce) comes out!

[PsyrenY]

LombaxWarrior wrote...

I'm going to ask a stupid question but who are against the IT do you like/understand the endings? Because the IT makes sense to me because the ending seemed rushed.I think that bioware planned for Shepard to be indoctrinated. The ending just made no logical sense and how was the illusive man controlling Shepard and Anderson? If its not indoctrination then what is it did T.I.M find tech beyond the omega 4 relay?
Ohhh by the way since the citadel is blown up couldn't omega be the new citadel

IT makes no goddamn sense. How could Shepard have "ended the Reaper threat" under Control or Synthesis if picking those options puts him under their sway? If IT is true, you should only have ended the Reaper threat under Destroy, with the other two not giving you that message.

And there are dozens of posts explaining the endings, the problem is that we have to use speculation to fill a lot of the blanks until EC is released.

[halbert986]

who said it was the ending to end all endings? The entire point of IT is there's more to it. I don't think anyone seriously believes that all IT is is picking destroy and waking up.

Halo 3 was the end to the trilogy, oh look it's halo 4.

[Swimming Ferret]

Optimystic_X wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...

Sounds like you'd rather have the crappy garbage endings rather than a redo out of spite.  

If your only idea of a redo is IT, then yes. I'd rather have multiple endings than "it was all a dream and two of your choices are actually traps, lol! Serves you right for not picking red, idiot!"

Yeah that's one of my beefs with IT. The whole 'it was a halluciantion bro!" and Shepard waking up with the Reapers still alive would be even more daft than the crap we have now.

[Robhuzz]

IT is an opportunity. Nothing more.
IT provides BioWare with a way to change the ending without retconning the entire thing.

I wish they took it already. Anything is better than the garbage we have now.

Modifié par Robhuzz, 21 mai 2012 - 06:57 .

[LucasShark]

halbert986 wrote...

who said it was the ending to end all endings? The entire point of IT is there's more to it. I don't think anyone seriously believes that all IT is is picking destroy and waking up.

Halo 3 was the end to the trilogy, oh look it's halo 4.

Read a couple posts up for a person who clearly believes precisely that.

[PsyrenY]

Robhuzz wrote...

I wish they took it already. Anything is better than the garbage we have now.

So we trade garbage for ****?

[Peregrin25]

I like the idea of Indoctrination Theory but at the same time it is just speculation and cannon for people who feel betrayed by the ending we received. I have 3 different fan fic endings I use to make due with the horrible ending we have.

And who said anything about Indoctrination Theory being an end to the game. Any Indoctrination Theorist will say it is an idea and vision that expands on what we already have, and will lead to the true ending. Me being someone that is pro-Indoctrination Theory. I have posted and shared my opinions with people on the matter. As well as to people that do not believe in Indoctrination Theory. I don't ever recall people saying or accepting it is an end to ME3. It is more rather a beginning to the end if you get my meaning. But that's just me.

[LucasShark]

Optimystic_X wrote...

Robhuzz wrote...

I wish they took it already. Anything is better than the garbage we have now.

So we trade garbage for ****?

IT **** doesn't stink apparently... or at least that is what I keep being told.