307 réponses à ce sujet

[Alex_Dur4and]

LucasShark wrote...

Okay: Let's say everything the IT theorists are spouting is right: their little theory is correct and I'm stupid, and my mother was a ****, and everything else they've told me is correct.  And I'm being VERY generous here considering the last piece of "evidence" I saw was a bloke realizing that the citadel tower chamber kind of sort of looks like a reaper if you squint and have pink-eye.

Now here's the problem I want them all to admit to right now: IT IS NOT, repeat IS NOT an ending.

Should IT be correct, and you "win" by choosing destroy the reapers, and Shepard wakes up: where do we wake up?  We are plonked back onto Earth, MID-BATTLE no less, with a no doubt wounded team and reaprs everywhere.  This isn't a situation that five minuts, or een 10 minutes of cutscenes or quick time events could fix.  This is still a story written into a hole.

This will lead to one of two things: more post-credits DLC content, which will likely be paid for, or a new game entirely.  This means Bioware lied, fundamentally in nearly all their promo material and all the raming that went into ME3.  It also means, that if these items are not free, I will not get them, and even then: they will have to be delivered to my door, with chocolates and appologies before I purchase another Bioware product ever again.

This thread is stupid! <_<

You got better things to do than Troll all those with hope or, like me, that don't need it to understand that it was an Indoc attempt. Stop insulting EA, Bioware and people that don't think like you!

By the way... they already did "lie" about MANY things (like endings that would be different and that would matter according to the choices we made through out the game)... Or did they? Maybe it's not over yet and Bioware did not lie about anything.

Oh! And post-ending DLCs which is likely to be paid for is a CERTAINTY!!! EA wants it, Bioware wants it, X-Box, Playstation and PC wants it and all the most die hard ME fans wants it too... And none of these people care at all about what the rest of the population think! No matter how wrong you might think this marketing tendancy is.

If you don't want to buy anymore ME3 content... fine! Go play D3 or some other game and spare us from your verbal diarea.

[snfonseka]

I like IT but I don't think BW is going to use that for EC. Because you can't explain IT without adding additional gameplay. Since EC only contains cutscenes, it seems like IT is false.

[Swimming Ferret]

Alex_Dur4and wrote...

LucasShark wrote...

Okay: Let's say everything the IT theorists are spouting is right: their little theory is correct and I'm stupid, and my mother was a ****, and everything else they've told me is correct.  And I'm being VERY generous here considering the last piece of "evidence" I saw was a bloke realizing that the citadel tower chamber kind of sort of looks like a reaper if you squint and have pink-eye.

Now here's the problem I want them all to admit to right now: IT IS NOT, repeat IS NOT an ending.

Should IT be correct, and you "win" by choosing destroy the reapers, and Shepard wakes up: where do we wake up?  We are plonked back onto Earth, MID-BATTLE no less, with a no doubt wounded team and reaprs everywhere.  This isn't a situation that five minuts, or een 10 minutes of cutscenes or quick time events could fix.  This is still a story written into a hole.

This will lead to one of two things: more post-credits DLC content, which will likely be paid for, or a new game entirely.  This means Bioware lied, fundamentally in nearly all their promo material and all the raming that went into ME3.  It also means, that if these items are not free, I will not get them, and even then: they will have to be delivered to my door, with chocolates and appologies before I purchase another Bioware product ever again.

This thread is stupid! <_<

You got better things to do than Troll all those with hope or, like me, that don't need it to understand that it was an Indoc attempt. Stop insulting EA, Bioware and people that don't think like you!

BOOM!
Disagree and present a reasonable argument = troll.

[Kurrabin]

There seems to be only three outcomes for the EC:

1 - BioWare really does an awesome ending, extending what we currently have (without IT)
2 - BioWare just "explains" what is going on in the current ending, completely fails to impress the fanbase (without IT)
3 - BioWare expands the story from Shepard's indoctrination, and completes the ending (obviously with IT)

For me, 1 seems implausible (given the current state of the ending), 2 would be a great disappointment, then only 3 seems to be the viable option.

But other people might disagree.

[tetsutsuru]

LucasShark wrote...

Okay: Let's say everything the IT theorists are spouting is right: their little theory is correct and I'm stupid, and my mother was a ****, and everything else they've told me is correct.  And I'm being VERY generous here considering the last piece of "evidence" I saw was a bloke realizing that the citadel tower chamber kind of sort of looks like a reaper if you squint and have pink-eye.

Now here's the problem I want them all to admit to right now: IT IS NOT, repeat IS NOT an ending.

Should IT be correct, and you "win" by choosing destroy the reapers, and Shepard wakes up: where do we wake up?  We are plonked back onto Earth, MID-BATTLE no less, with a no doubt wounded team and reaprs everywhere.  This isn't a situation that five minuts, or een 10 minutes of cutscenes or quick time events could fix.  This is still a story written into a hole.

This will lead to one of two things: more post-credits DLC content, which will likely be paid for, or a new game entirely.  This means Bioware lied, fundamentally in nearly all their promo material and all the raming that went into ME3.  It also means, that if these items are not free, I will not get them, and even then: they will have to be delivered to my door, with chocolates and appologies before I purchase another Bioware product ever again.

Mass Effect 3 DLC is still Mass Effect 3.  I'm not quite understanding what your concern is.  And whether any ME3 DLC is free or charge cash-money for additional DLC to progress Commander Shepard's story is another matter.  And even then, it's YOUR option whether to pay for it or not.

How is this a "weakness of the Indoctrination Theory", let alone a "major" one?

Modifié par tetsutsuru, 21 mai 2012 - 01:55 .

[Majin Paul]

That's certainly a weakness to the theory, the only way I can think it could be possible to be an ending is if it's like Saren dying causing Sovereign some damage (weakening sheilds or whatnot) but what with creating a whole illusion, maybe the effect of Shepard breaking control has more dramatic effects.
I seem to remember the Reapers having some aspect of hive-mind in them as well unless I'm mistaken so it could have affected all instead of one Reaper.

That could be utter nonsense though.

Modifié par Majin Paul, 21 mai 2012 - 02:10 .

[wryterra]

LucasShark wrote...

Okay: Let's say everything the IT theorists are spouting is right: their little theory is correct and I'm stupid, and my mother was a ****, and everything else they've told me is correct.  And I'm being VERY generous here considering the last piece of "evidence" I saw was a bloke realizing that the citadel tower chamber kind of sort of looks like a reaper if you squint and have pink-eye.

Now here's the problem I want them all to admit to right now: IT IS NOT, repeat IS NOT an ending.

Should IT be correct, and you "win" by choosing destroy the reapers, and Shepard wakes up: where do we wake up?  We are plonked back onto Earth, MID-BATTLE no less, with a no doubt wounded team and reaprs everywhere.  This isn't a situation that five minuts, or een 10 minutes of cutscenes or quick time events could fix.  This is still a story written into a hole.

This will lead to one of two things: more post-credits DLC content, which will likely be paid for, or a new game entirely.  This means Bioware lied, fundamentally in nearly all their promo material and all the raming that went into ME3.  It also means, that if these items are not free, I will not get them, and even then: they will have to be delivered to my door, with chocolates and appologies before I purchase another Bioware product ever again.

I've always said that. 

It's no more an ending than the 'breath' scene is an ending if you take the rest of it literally. 

One of the core tennents of IT is and always has been that it's not the end of the story. 

[wryterra]

snfonseka wrote...

I like IT but I don't think BW is going to use that for EC. Because you can't explain IT without adding additional gameplay. Since EC only contains cutscenes, it seems like IT is false.

I could explain IT without adding additional gameplayer. That's easy.

Also, find me the quote that says it contains only cutscenes because they have said no such thing. 

[mupp3tz]

Kurrabin wrote...

There seems to be only three outcomes for the EC:

1 - BioWare really does an awesome ending, extending what we currently have (without IT)
2 - BioWare just "explains" what is going on in the current ending, completely fails to impress the fanbase (without IT)
3 - BioWare expands the story from Shepard's indoctrination, and completes the ending (obviously with IT)

For me, 1 seems implausible (given the current state of the ending), 2 would be a great disappointment, then only 3 seems to be the viable option.

But other people might disagree.

Highly doubt Bioware will even flat out say IT is T/F... since it's one of the only ways they can keep some of the fans happy, not to mention paints Bioware in a more positive light than the alternative.  I bet they touch the issue with kiddie gloves and purposely leave it ambigious and open to interpretation, or debatable towards one side or another.  The other things -- what happens to squad mates, species, etc. can be handled as canon. 

[xbb1024]

I think everyone is putting more thought into this then it deserves. People might not like or care for the actual ending, but trying to rewrite it isn't one of the options. NO amount of war assets will change that.

[thefallen2far]

LucasShark wrote...

Now here's the problem I want them all to admit to right now: IT IS NOT, repeat IS NOT an ending.

This will lead to one of two things: more post-credits DLC content, which will likely be paid for, or a new game entirely.  This means Bioware lied, fundamentally in nearly all their promo material and all the raming that went into ME3.  It also means, that if these items are not free, I will not get them, and even then: they will have to be delivered to my door, with chocolates and appologies before I purchase another Bioware product ever again.

1. Your insecurities have made you quite sensitive.
2. The point is that the horrible ending you went through in the end which is worse than having no endng at all, is yt to be released. As unlikely as that is, it's preferrable.
3. You have your end. You played the game through. It's over for you. You don't need to download EC or alternate ending because the game is finished for you. IT is a way for hope that Mass Effect wasn't a complete waste of time and money.

[Vilegrim]

LucasShark wrote...

Okay: Let's say everything the IT theorists are spouting is right: their little theory is correct and I'm stupid, and my mother was a ****, and everything else they've told me is correct.  And I'm being VERY generous here considering the last piece of "evidence" I saw was a bloke realizing that the citadel tower chamber kind of sort of looks like a reaper if you squint and have pink-eye.

Now here's the problem I want them all to admit to right now: IT IS NOT, repeat IS NOT an ending.

Should IT be correct, and you "win" by choosing destroy the reapers, and Shepard wakes up: where do we wake up?  We are plonked back onto Earth, MID-BATTLE no less, with a no doubt wounded team and reaprs everywhere.  This isn't a situation that five minuts, or een 10 minutes of cutscenes or quick time events could fix.  This is still a story written into a hole.

This will lead to one of two things: more post-credits DLC content, which will likely be paid for, or a new game entirely.  This means Bioware lied, fundamentally in nearly all their promo material and all the raming that went into ME3.  It also means, that if these items are not free, I will not get them, and even then: they will have to be delivered to my door, with chocolates and appologies before I purchase another Bioware product ever again.

well they certainly lied on the promo for this game anyway (No a,b or c..massive number of multiple endings et etc) so IT theory being correct would be a smaller lie than those told already.

[NM_Che56]

I never read anywhere that IT was an "ending".

I'm an IT'er and I've always viewed IT as the beginning of another sequence of events leading to the real ending. Yes, the implication is that the ending was chopped up to be sold as DLC. Yes, we were sold an incomplete game. These realizations do not negate the theory.

If you got enough EMS and picked destroy, you got a teaser (Shepard breathing). That's not to say Shepard doesn't live in the other two, you just don't get the teaser for it.

What you saw after you made your choice was not real.

[draken-heart]

very first Definition of theory:

a coherent group of tested general propositions, commonly regarded as correct, that can be used as principles of explanation and prediction for a class of phenomena

plus it was said that the devs did try indoctrination at one point but couldn't make it fit so it was scrapped.

plus could what happens afterwards not be explained as a cutscene? Do you guys really need to actually play the ending of the war that if it is looks like it could work w/more gameplay but the gameplay part is not necessary it is not an ending?

plus it could be that after ME1 it was not humanity that became the target but Shepard himself/herself. and the collectors "collecting" humans was just a way to get Shepard's attention so they can get him/her.

Modifié par draken-heart, 21 mai 2012 - 04:02 .

[Silhouett3]

Why do people blame IT for Bioware's lies? They promised 16 different, not a-b-c endings before the release. Where are they? Why does IT-ers should "admit" anything about this?

[shepdog77]

Swimming Ferret wrote...

Alex_Dur4and wrote...

LucasShark wrote...

Okay: Let's say everything the IT theorists are spouting is right: their little theory is correct and I'm stupid, and my mother was a ****, and everything else they've told me is correct.  And I'm being VERY generous here considering the last piece of "evidence" I saw was a bloke realizing that the citadel tower chamber kind of sort of looks like a reaper if you squint and have pink-eye.

Now here's the problem I want them all to admit to right now: IT IS NOT, repeat IS NOT an ending.

Should IT be correct, and you "win" by choosing destroy the reapers, and Shepard wakes up: where do we wake up?  We are plonked back onto Earth, MID-BATTLE no less, with a no doubt wounded team and reaprs everywhere.  This isn't a situation that five minuts, or een 10 minutes of cutscenes or quick time events could fix.  This is still a story written into a hole.

This will lead to one of two things: more post-credits DLC content, which will likely be paid for, or a new game entirely.  This means Bioware lied, fundamentally in nearly all their promo material and all the raming that went into ME3.  It also means, that if these items are not free, I will not get them, and even then: they will have to be delivered to my door, with chocolates and appologies before I purchase another Bioware product ever again.

This thread is stupid! <_<

You got better things to do than Troll all those with hope or, like me, that don't need it to understand that it was an Indoc attempt. Stop insulting EA, Bioware and people that don't think like you!

BOOM!
Disagree and present a reasonable argument = troll.

[pacientK]

Allen Spellwaver wrote...

I don't see the logic of the thread.

[mupp3tz]

Master Che wrote...

I never read anywhere that IT was an "ending".

I'm an IT'er and I've always viewed IT as the beginning of another sequence of events leading to the real ending. Yes, the implication is that the ending was chopped up to be sold as DLC. Yes, we were sold an incomplete game. These realizations do not negate the theory.

If you got enough EMS and picked destroy, you got a teaser (Shepard breathing). That's not to say Shepard doesn't live in the other two, you just don't get the teaser for it.

What you saw after you made your choice was not real.

Except for there was no planned post-ending DLC prior to the backlash. 

[ValendianKnight]

Weak argument. IT means the game ends in a cliffhanger, which is totally not outside the realm of possibility. Wouldn't be the first game that would not let you "finish the fight" until the next one. That is, unless the EC is trully a lot of content, which I doubt.

[NM_Che56]

M U P P 3 T Z wrote...

Master Che wrote...

I never read anywhere that IT was an "ending".

I'm an IT'er and I've always viewed IT as the beginning of another sequence of events leading to the real ending. Yes, the implication is that the ending was chopped up to be sold as DLC. Yes, we were sold an incomplete game. These realizations do not negate the theory.

If you got enough EMS and picked destroy, you got a teaser (Shepard breathing). That's not to say Shepard doesn't live in the other two, you just don't get the teaser for it.

What you saw after you made your choice was not real.

Except for there was no planned post-ending DLC prior to the backlash. 

I don't remember reading that, but it would be hard to tell if Bioware was just doing damage control (i.e. "don't ****** them off more by admitting we were going to sell the ending in bits and pieces.  Just fall on the sword").

[Unit-Alpha]

I'm not an ITer but that is one of the worst examples of a weakness ever. You are just projecting. Give us something in-game that shows it's wrong, not something like that. Hell, a few years ago, a game like ME would have been laughed at because of its scope. Who's to say that the EC isn't going to be groundbreaking, too?

[mupp3tz]

Mac Walters said -- prior to release-- that they have a strong DLC plan that takes place from the middle of the game onward, similar to ME2. So, no. This wasn't some extensive plot to get more money. They really thought you would be happy with the literal ending.

[draken-heart]

my indoctrination Theory is...SHEPARD IS THE MAIN TARGET FOR THE REAPERS.
the war itself does not matter, because the end was just a battle to see who controls Shepard: the Reapers or Shepard (himself/herself) which can easily be explained in the EC without Gameplay:

1) if reapers control Shepard: then it Shows Shepard Killing his/her friends/Allies and the reapers winning the war.
2) if Shepard maintains control of himself/herself: he/she leads one final charge to defeat the reapers, likely dying in the process.

Modifié par draken-heart, 21 mai 2012 - 04:21 .

[pseudonymic]

there's a big difference between an explanation and a statement. IT is a theory to explain the horrible ending. it is, in no shape or form, the ending statement itself. whatever happens from the RGB point is the same, regardless whether you're pro or anti IT.

what y'all arguement junkies don't understand is that we're all on the same boat, no matter how you look at it.

Modifié par pseudonymic, 21 mai 2012 - 04:23 .

[jules_vern18]

Alex_Dur4and wrote...

LucasShark wrote...

Okay: Let's say everything the IT theorists are spouting is right: their little theory is correct and I'm stupid, and my mother was a ****, and everything else they've told me is correct.  And I'm being VERY generous here considering the last piece of "evidence" I saw was a bloke realizing that the citadel tower chamber kind of sort of looks like a reaper if you squint and have pink-eye.

Now here's the problem I want them all to admit to right now: IT IS NOT, repeat IS NOT an ending.

Should IT be correct, and you "win" by choosing destroy the reapers, and Shepard wakes up: where do we wake up?  We are plonked back onto Earth, MID-BATTLE no less, with a no doubt wounded team and reaprs everywhere.  This isn't a situation that five minuts, or een 10 minutes of cutscenes or quick time events could fix.  This is still a story written into a hole.

This will lead to one of two things: more post-credits DLC content, which will likely be paid for, or a new game entirely.  This means Bioware lied, fundamentally in nearly all their promo material and all the raming that went into ME3.  It also means, that if these items are not free, I will not get them, and even then: they will have to be delivered to my door, with chocolates and appologies before I purchase another Bioware product ever again.

This thread is stupid! <_<

You got better things to do than Troll all those with hope or, like me, that don't need it to understand that it was an Indoc attempt. Stop insulting EA, Bioware and people that don't think like you!

By the way... they already did "lie" about MANY things (like endings that would be different and that would matter according to the choices we made through out the game)... Or did they? Maybe it's not over yet and Bioware did not lie about anything.

Oh! And post-ending DLCs which is likely to be paid for is a CERTAINTY!!! EA wants it, Bioware wants it, X-Box, Playstation and PC wants it and all the most die hard ME fans wants it too... And none of these people care at all about what the rest of the population think! No matter how wrong you might think this marketing tendancy is.

If you don't want to buy anymore ME3 content... fine! Go play D3 or some other game and spare us from your verbal diarea.

Do you seriously still believe that there will be DLC that takes place after the game?  The choices at the end of the game - while presented similarly - either kill Shephard or change significant parts of the universe.  In any of the three cases, the Reaper threat is ended *at least* temporarily (no villain).  What are we supposed to get, post-ending dlc where we "rebuild" the galaxy?  How would that even play out game-play wise?  Moreover, post-ending dlc would be impossible to implement given the ending - Bioware would have to write one version with Shephard alive, another version with Shephard ascended to control the reapers (so who do you play as?), and another version where the whole damn galaxy has been synthesized (and again, who do you play as?).  Not going to happen.

Bioware has already said that SP DLC will take place during the main storyline.  That's why, when you beat the game, you are returned to the Normandy and told that future DLC will allow you to expand upon Shepard's "legend." 

Note:  When saying that there won't be post-ending DLC, I'm assuming that the endings are to be taken at face value.  IT is/was not Bioware's intention and is ridiculous both from a narrative and marketting standpoint.

Once the EC is out, expect DLC along the lines of ME2.

Modifié par jules_vern18, 21 mai 2012 - 04:25 .