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A major weakness I wish IT-ers would admit


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#201
NM_Che56

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M U P P 3 T Z wrote...

Mac Walters said -- prior to release-- that they have a strong DLC plan that takes place from the middle of the game onward, similar to ME2. So, no. This wasn't some extensive plot to get more money. They really thought you would be happy with the literal ending.


Based on your quote, that does not mean they didn't have plans for ending DLC.  It just says they have strong DLC plans that take place from the middle onward.  Beyond what was saw in the end is technically "onward".

 It may help if you posted the actual quote from Mac.

Modifié par Master Che, 21 mai 2012 - 04:24 .


#202
mupp3tz

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Actually, I misquoted.

We also have a premise for being able to play ongoing adventures from the perspective of the middle of the game, like we had in Mass Effect 2.


So, yeah.. no ending DLC. This wasn't some grand plan by Bioware.

Modifié par M U P P 3 T Z, 21 mai 2012 - 04:29 .


#203
GhostNappa

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Even if the IT theory is wrong, the ending still stinks anyways...

#204
Kreid

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I.T. is fundamentally flawed, however, I am (still) amazed at how people cling to the last straw of hope against an ending they perceive as wrong, ME fans as a whole are definitely some of the most passionate ones I've ever seen in any media. 

Modifié par Creid-X, 21 mai 2012 - 04:40 .


#205
rowan93

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I support the IT theory, for the most part, but I understand its not an ending per say.

#206
NM_Che56

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M U P P 3 T Z wrote...

Actually, I misquoted.


We also have a premise for being able to play ongoing adventures from the perspective of the middle of the game, like we had in Mass Effect 2.


So, yeah.. no ending DLC. This wasn't some grand plan by Bioware.


It just says there will be new game plus and that ON GOING ADVENTURES would take place in the middle of the game.

The EC does not meet the criteria of "on going adventures", ergo, my argument still stands. 

He does go on to say, that it won't be a classic ending where you have to make a choice between a few things...we got red green and blue.

#207
Aiyie

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LucasShark wrote...

Okay: Let's say everything the IT theorists are spouting is right: their little theory is correct and I'm stupid, and my mother was a ****, and everything else they've told me is correct.  And I'm being VERY generous here considering the last piece of "evidence" I saw was a bloke realizing that the citadel tower chamber kind of sort of looks like a reaper if you squint and have pink-eye.

Now here's the problem I want them all to admit to right now: IT IS NOT, repeat IS NOT an ending.

Should IT be correct, and you "win" by choosing destroy the reapers, and Shepard wakes up: where do we wake up?  We are plonked back onto Earth, MID-BATTLE no less, with a no doubt wounded team and reaprs everywhere.  This isn't a situation that five minuts, or een 10 minutes of cutscenes or quick time events could fix.  This is still a story written into a hole.

This will lead to one of two things: more post-credits DLC content, which will likely be paid for, or a new game entirely.  This means Bioware lied, fundamentally in nearly all their promo material and all the raming that went into ME3.  It also means, that if these items are not free, I will not get them, and even then: they will have to be delivered to my door, with chocolates and appologies before I purchase another Bioware product ever again.


pretty sure most IT'rs are fully aware that it doesn't tie up that pesky Reaper loose end at the end of the game.

if you look back, check out the threads that were here a couple months ago, you'll see that IT developed, not as an ending, but as a way to explain the horribly bad ending.

the explanation, the hope, was that the ending was some sort of giant meta-game twist.  one where the devs were going to unveil the "real" ending after a short while, once there was enough hype about it.

that hope was proven wrong rather quickly when everyone was told that the endings were in fact the finale.

since the announcement of the EC dlc, the hope is now that the devs will take IT and use it to explain the scenes on the citadel.  that there will be additional cinematics at the end that tie up the loose ends IT doesn't explain, such as the fact that the Reapers are still running around.

all in all, i don't expect IT will be used by the devs.  the EC will simply be an air freshener trying to mask the smell of crap.

that said though, rather than let the last few minutes of the series ruin my enjoyment of Mass Effect, or become embittered to the point that i write off bioware completely (as the OP seems to be), if the EC doesn't make the ending more palatable, ill use IT as my headcanon ending... and just assume that it the Reapers were somehow defeated by conventional means afterwards. 

its either that or i become a bitter shell of a gamer who will never love another series again because of the fear of having it ruined by the devs.

#208
NM_Che56

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Creid-X wrote...

I.T. is fundamentally flawed, however, I am (still) amazed at how people cling to the last straw of hope against an ending they perceive as wrong, ME fans as a whole are definitely some of the most passionate ones I've ever seen in any media. 


where is the fundemental flaw?

#209
balance5050

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Master Che wrote...

Creid-X wrote...

I.T. is fundamentally flawed, however, I am (still) amazed at how people cling to the last straw of hope against an ending they perceive as wrong, ME fans as a whole are definitely some of the most passionate ones I've ever seen in any media. 


where is the fundemental flaw?


There isn't, cried-x likes to say things.

#210
llbountyhunter

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Master Che wrote...

Creid-X wrote...

I.T. is fundamentally flawed, however, I am (still) amazed at how people cling to the last straw of hope against an ending they perceive as wrong, ME fans as a whole are definitely some of the most passionate ones I've ever seen in any media. 


where is the fundemental flaw?


there isnt one... they just want to remain angry.

take a look here for more IT evidence (evidence not proof- its only a theory)
http://masseffectind....blogspot.com/ 

Modifié par llbountyhunter, 21 mai 2012 - 04:49 .


#211
NM_Che56

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llbountyhunter wrote...

Master Che wrote...

Creid-X wrote...

I.T. is fundamentally flawed, however, I am (still) amazed at how people cling to the last straw of hope against an ending they perceive as wrong, ME fans as a whole are definitely some of the most passionate ones I've ever seen in any media. 


where is the fundemental flaw?


there isnt one... they just want to remain angry.

take a look here for more IT evidence (evidence not proof- its only a theory)
http://masseffectind....blogspot.com/ 


I'm pretty up to date on the IT thing.  I just like to ask people to explain the flaws they see in hopes that I will read one. 

When I've asked for this in the past, I get the old "you support the theory.  You prove it".  Logical impossibility.  You cannot prove theories.  You can have 1 billion pieces of evidence to support it, but it only takes 1 to disprove it.

#212
NM_Che56

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balance5050 wrote...

Master Che wrote...

Creid-X wrote...

I.T. is fundamentally flawed, however, I am (still) amazed at how people cling to the last straw of hope against an ending they perceive as wrong, ME fans as a whole are definitely some of the most passionate ones I've ever seen in any media. 


where is the fundemental flaw?


There isn't, cried-x likes to say things.

this made me laugh. 

#213
ArthurVon

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LucasShark wrote...

Okay: Let's say everything the IT theorists are spouting is right: their little theory is correct and I'm stupid, and my mother was a ****, and everything else they've told me is correct.  And I'm being VERY generous here considering the last piece of "evidence" I saw was a bloke realizing that the citadel tower chamber kind of sort of looks like a reaper if you squint and have pink-eye.

Now here's the problem I want them all to admit to right now: IT IS NOT, repeat IS NOT an ending.

Should IT be correct, and you "win" by choosing destroy the reapers, and Shepard wakes up: where do we wake up?  We are plonked back onto Earth, MID-BATTLE no less, with a no doubt wounded team and reaprs everywhere.  This isn't a situation that five minuts, or een 10 minutes of cutscenes or quick time events could fix.  This is still a story written into a hole.

This will lead to one of two things: more post-credits DLC content, which will likely be paid for, or a new game entirely.  This means Bioware lied, fundamentally in nearly all their promo material and all the raming that went into ME3.  It also means, that if these items are not free, I will not get them, and even then: they will have to be delivered to my door, with chocolates and appologies before I purchase another Bioware product ever again.


Agree. Im pissed off the same way.

#214
Soultaker08

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The fundamental flaw is we got a game without an ending? :huh:

The fundamental flaw is we got no proof , only "evidence"

The fundamental flaw is that EC wasnt (at least officialy) planned and there isnt going to be any more Ending Dlc?

The fundamental flaw ist that they stated there will be cut scenes and epilogues added on the existing endings, but nowhere stated theres going to be more gameplay (cant think of IT with only cuts and ep)

Doesnt this counts as flaws?

A great part of Anti-IT "evidence" is not within the game, but this doesnt make them unusable

#215
matt-bassist

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have you watched the 1hr 20min IT video? man, if that doesn't open your eyes, then there is no hope. IT is real. if it isn't, then the ending of ME3 has some of the most sloppy game design and writing in history (and BioWare's track record speaks volumes). This was done on purpose.

#216
Verit

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Encarmine wrote...
IT is the biggest and most extraordinary case of collective denial i have seen come from gaming fans ever in my life.

This. I have never seen anything like this, but then again the entire ending debacle is unlike anything we've ever seen before. But it's really about time for people to realize that IT was never intended, and accept that Bioware also doesn't intend to use it to fix the ending. It's a shame that fvBioware, despite all their talk about how much they believe in their ending, still leave people theorizing about how the entire ending simply didn't happen. But I guess that they really aren't so sure about their ending, and they realize it was a failure but they just don't want to admit it. And that will make the challenge of fixing the ending with EC all the more difficult.

Modifié par -Draikin-, 21 mai 2012 - 04:57 .


#217
mupp3tz

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Master Che wrote...

M U P P 3 T Z wrote...

Actually, I misquoted.


We also have a premise for being able to play ongoing adventures from the perspective of the middle of the game, like we had in Mass Effect 2.


So, yeah.. no ending DLC. This wasn't some grand plan by Bioware.


It just says there will be new game plus and that ON GOING ADVENTURES would take place in the middle of the game.

The EC does not meet the criteria of "on going adventures", ergo, my argument still stands. 

He does go on to say, that it won't be a classic ending where you have to make a choice between a few things...we got red green and blue.


Your argument does not still stand because you clearly say that the ending was *purposely* cut off, because Bioware meant -- from the beginning -- to release the actual ending at a later date.  The EC is product of the backlash.  It was never meant to be or planned beforehand.  Why do you think they have halted every other project just to get it out?  

If they planned it from the get-go... the EC wouldn't warrant a blog post or an acknowledgement of fan discontent and steps to explain what they meant by the ending.  It also would have been out a lot sooner and they wouldn't be recording VA's just now.

The interview flat out says the game goes on: 1) New Game +, or 2) DLC from the middle of the game. The ending wasn't cut out.  It just is.  They didn't have anything planned after you make your final choice.

Whether or not you choose to support IT or not is irrelevant... but please don't try to argue that Bioware had a master scheme and cut out the "ending" on purpose.

Modifié par M U P P 3 T Z, 21 mai 2012 - 05:00 .


#218
Aiyie

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Soultaker08 wrote...

The fundamental flaw is we got a game without an ending? [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/wondering.png[/smilie]

The fundamental flaw is we got no proof , only "evidence"

The fundamental flaw is that EC wasnt (at least officialy) planned and there isnt going to be any more Ending Dlc?

The
fundamental flaw ist that they stated there will be cut scenes and
epilogues added on the existing endings, but nowhere stated theres going
to be more gameplay (cant think of IT with only cuts and ep)

Doesnt this counts as flaws?

A great part of Anti-IT "evidence" is not within the game, but this doesnt make them unusable


just wanted to say... you don't need actual gameplay for IT to work. 

suppose something like in ME1... Shep fends off the indoc attempt, it weakens Harbinger as a result... the fleet blows Harby's head off, Reapers become disorganized, epic space battle ensues, Reapers lose.

all that can be done in a cinematic, and it would have the benefit of showing us our war assets in action.

Creid-X wrote...

I.T. is fundamentally flawed, however, I am (still) amazed at how people cling to the last straw of hope against an ending they perceive as wrong, ME fans as a whole are definitely some of the most passionate ones I've ever seen in any media. 


flawed, yes, false, most likely.

still more palatable than the endings we got?  absolutely.

better to enjoy the headcanon than sit in my shower, tears rolling down my cheeks, listening to GOTYE's "Somebody that I Used to Know," like most of the anti-IT'rs seem to be content to do.

Modifié par Aiyie, 21 mai 2012 - 05:00 .


#219
balance5050

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Soultaker08 wrote...

The fundamental flaw is we got a game without an ending? :huh:

The fundamental flaw is we got no proof , only "evidence"

The fundamental flaw is that EC wasnt (at least officialy) planned and there isnt going to be any more Ending Dlc?

The fundamental flaw ist that they stated there will be cut scenes and epilogues added on the existing endings, but nowhere stated theres going to be more gameplay (cant think of IT with only cuts and ep)

Doesnt this counts as flaws?

A great part of Anti-IT "evidence" is not within the game, but this doesnt make them unusable


I don't really see those as flaws, just aspects that are conducive to speculation which was their goal.

#220
llbountyhunter

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Soultaker08 wrote...

The fundamental flaw is we got a game without an ending? :huh:

The fundamental flaw is we got no proof , only "evidence"

The fundamental flaw is that EC wasnt (at least officialy) planned and there isnt going to be any more Ending Dlc?

The fundamental flaw ist that they stated there will be cut scenes and epilogues added on the existing endings, but nowhere stated theres going to be more gameplay (cant think of IT with only cuts and ep)

Doesnt this counts as flaws?

A great part of Anti-IT "evidence" is not within the game, but this doesnt make them unusable


1. no, many games before me3 have been sold without proper ending, not only that but you had to PAY for the "real ending"
2. ?????? you cant prove a theory. only bioware can do it.
3.many sources say otherwise
4. IT can work without gameplay, however, EC was phrased in  a way that did not exlude gameplay.

no, no flaws here.

Modifié par llbountyhunter, 21 mai 2012 - 05:00 .


#221
RavenEyry

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I don't remember anyone denying this 'weakness' so there's not really anything to admit.

#222
zambot

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Master Che wrote...

Creid-X wrote...

I.T. is fundamentally flawed, however, I am (still) amazed at how people cling to the last straw of hope against an ending they perceive as wrong, ME fans as a whole are definitely some of the most passionate ones I've ever seen in any media. 


where is the fundemental flaw?


The flaw is exactly what OP is posting about: If IT is true, then ME3 has no ending.  There's no way Bioware shipped a game without an ending to the series, and at the same time told bald faced lies about it ending.  At this point in time, you either have to accept that Bioware did not plan IT, or that they shipped an incomplete game and told a bunch of lies about it in order to conceal the "truth", and give you an ending later (either in the form of DLC or ME4).

It is "possible" that Bioware will embrace IT, then use it to change the ending, however, given things like development funding, burn-out, re-appropriating team members who are now on other projects, I find it extremely unlikely.

#223
NM_Che56

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Soultaker08 wrote...

The fundamental flaw is we got a game without an ending? :huh:

The fundamental flaw is we got no proof , only "evidence"

The fundamental flaw is that EC wasnt (at least officialy) planned and there isnt going to be any more Ending Dlc?

The fundamental flaw ist that they stated there will be cut scenes and epilogues added on the existing endings, but nowhere stated theres going to be more gameplay (cant think of IT with only cuts and ep)

Doesnt this counts as flaws?

A great part of Anti-IT "evidence" is not within the game, but this doesnt make them unusable

1) Flaw with Bioware's strategy, not the theory.
2) We have no proof of gravity, just general theory of relativity.
3) Show me that it wasn't planned. 
4) How is cut scenes and epilogues exclusive of IT? Why can't IT be revealed through Epilogues and cutscenes?

So no, these are not flaw with the theory.  Just flaws with your argument.

#224
llbountyhunter

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Aiyie wrote...

Creid-X wrote...

I.T. is fundamentally flawed, however, I am (still) amazed at how people cling to the last straw of hope against an ending they perceive as wrong, ME fans as a whole are definitely some of the most passionate ones I've ever seen in any media. 


flawed, yes, false, most likely.

still more palatable than the endings we got?  absolutely.

better to enjoy the headcanon than sit in my shower, tears rolling down my cheeks, listening to GOTYE's "Somebody that I Used to Know," like most of the anti-IT'rs seem to be content to do.


everybody has some of this "absolute proof that disproves IT once and for all" but it seems everybody is keeping to themselves and refuses to tell us what it actually is. <_<

#225
An English Gamer

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 The weakness is that it would require extra extra cutscenes and dialogue to show what happens?.. Cutscenes that could be anything such as Harbingers shields going down leaving him vulnerable,(like Sovereign was) to fire from the Fleets...
I don't quite see how the EC couldn't make it an ending. Though I see what you mean. However at this point I don't care. If I have to pay £6.40 for a good ending I will. (INB4 hate)

Modifié par An English Gamer, 21 mai 2012 - 05:03 .