17 réponses à ce sujet

[CarlSpackler]

 I see a lot folks on here making requests for harder
choices, to play someone who is not the chosen one, darker, grittier, etc.  

All fine and good, sure we’ve all seen the chosen one
storyline used ad nauseum (not that either DA game did this mind you) and it is
nice to have to stop and think about choices in a game, but just to balance out
all these requests I’d like to request that Bioware keep on with the heroic
moments.  I want to play a character who
is above average, who at least every once in a while gets to slay the dragon
and save the damsel in distress. 

I know dark and gritty is in these days but just a casual
reader/watcher of the news can see that real life has enough misery going for
it, one of the grand contributions of video games can be some genuine heroic
escapism.  So while I’m not opposed to difficult
moments in the game or a heavier hitting game world (honestly I think the DA
games have done a pretty decent job for the most part at balance so kudos to
the writers) I just wanted to give a little voice to those who like warm
fuzzies of helping imaginary characters out from time to time without finding
out that you get screwed at every turn.  Realism
in video games can be overrated.

I don’t honestly believe that Bioware would really ride off
into super dark depressing territory but as I said I figured I’d add a voice to
those who do enjoy Heroic fantasy as opposed to miserable fantasy.  

Modifié par CarlSpackler, 21 mai 2012 - 02:18 .

[Ghidorah14]

Agreed.

I really dont care what anyone says. There's more enjoyable to me than playing the atypical hero who saves the day at the last minute. Thats what I play games like this for; to be something great, to accomplish that which normal people cant, and overcome the evils of that world. Its just fun.

[Vormaerin]

Not being the "Chosen One" does not mean being an anti hero. Its about not being handed destiny on a plate and being told "you rock, dude!" for no reason. Its about wanting your hero to be treated like a hero because he's done heroic things, not because Duncan happened to scoop you up in his 'need more flunkies' net.

Nor do 'hard choices' have to mean things like "sacrifice the brat or let a demon go" stuff. It can be choosing between two different good things. "Convince the Quarians to make peace with the Geth and hope they stay friendly" vs "Convince the Quarians to find a home of their own, where there's almost no chance of further Geth/Quarian fighting."

Ultimately, its about being a Big Damned Hero because you out-heroed everyone, not because everyone else gets disqualified by the DM. No more "Sorry, Lord Badass von Asskicking can't save the world; he wasn't born with the Facial Mole of Win like you."

[CarlSpackler]

Vormaerin wrote...

Not being the "Chosen One" does not mean being an anti hero. Its about not being handed destiny on a plate and being told "you rock, dude!" for no reason. Its about wanting your hero to be treated like a hero because he's done heroic things, not because Duncan happened to scoop you up in his 'need more flunkies' net.

No disagreement here.  My only point above (which I was apparently inarticulate in making) was that I've seen requests that want to be so far from the chosen one that they want nothing special about the PC at all.  Many people who play rpgs play an indealized version of themselves who are average people.  Idealized in that during the game they are stronger,faster,smarter than most folks without needing the "Facial Mole of Win" as you humorously put it.  Seriously I thought both DAO and DA2 did well in this area.

Vormaerin wrote...

Nor do 'hard choices' have to mean things like "sacrifice the brat or let a demon go" stuff. It can be choosing between two different good things. "Convince the Quarians to make peace with the Geth and hope they stay friendly" vs "Convince the Quarians to find a home of their own, where there's almost no chance of further Geth/Quarian fighting."

Again no real disagreement with exactly what you are saying here.  As I said above I have nothing against hard choices but some of the requests seem akin to "kill the baby to save the 4 adults" or "save the four adults while drowing the baby" only to find out that if you save the baby it was really a demon all along or if you save the adults they're child molesters.  This is obviously hyperbole but some requests seem close to this, and I seriously do not enjoy that scenario.  I'm all for the quarian/geth story you mention, but I do want some honest moments of rescue the children, avenge the farmers, help out the downtrodden.  As I said above, definitely give me some hard choices, I just want a little balance where I do feel heroic and I can save the day.

Modifié par CarlSpackler, 23 mai 2012 - 06:21 .

[Dakota Strider]

I guess I want my cake, and eat it too.  Because I prefer my hero to start from humble origins, although perhaps with above average potential compared to his associates.  And then, through the trial of fire, becomes the great heroic champion, that everyone later declares was "the Chosen One."
Heroes are simply ordinary people that have been put into extra-ordinary circumstances and succeeded (or survived).  I am sure that is a paraphrase of a quote from someone famous.  Just no idea who said it first.

[robertthebard]

Dakota Strider wrote...

I guess I want my cake, and eat it too.  Because I prefer my hero to start from humble origins, although perhaps with above average potential compared to his associates.  And then, through the trial of fire, becomes the great heroic champion, that everyone later declares was "the Chosen One."
Heroes are simply ordinary people that have been put into extra-ordinary circumstances and succeeded (or survived).  I am sure that is a paraphrase of a quote from someone famous.  Just no idea who said it first.

Actually, in Firefly, it's "A hero is a person that gets everybody killed".

[Realmzmaster]

What wrong with playing the villain hero? I want to stop the bid bad evil because I want to be the big bad evil that takes over the land. I would be seen as a hero in some eyes until I unleash the master plan of domination. I defeat the big bad evil and then the rest of the game is climbing my way to domination Where is the love for the villain. The  Dungeon Keeper series ( there is also Dungeons) gave you the time to be bad.

Modifié par Realmzmaster, 23 mai 2012 - 06:54 .

[AkiKishi]

Can't get much more unherioc than her.


Alchemy is a great equaliser.Sometimes gritty realism is just overdone.

[CarlSpackler]

Dakota Strider wrote...
although perhaps with above average potential compared to his associates

I think this is the key to being special without being the chosen one.  Barry Sanders was the greatest running back of the last 30 years (And this is objective fact, not opinion ), but he was still just a man.  (At least I believe so, I mean, that guy may have been a demi-god or something.)  Now no matter how much I lifted weights, ran laps, practiced dodging tackles I was never under any circumstance going to be a running back in college football let along the greatest running back in the NFL of the last 30 years.  But Barry Sanders had the physical potential to acheive greatness as a running back.  I think this should be similar to how the "Hero" of an rpg should play out (if you're not playing the chosen one that is.)  Potential to be great, but only under the right circumstances.

Realmzmaster wrote...
What wrong with playing the villain hero? I want to stop the bid bad evil because I want to be the big bad evil that takes over the land. I would be seen as a hero in some eyes until I unleash the master plan of domination. I defeat the big bad evil and then the rest of the game is climbing my way to domination Where is the love for the villain. The Dungeon Keeper series ( there is also Dungeons) gave you the time to be bad.

If thats your thing and the game allows for it then cool.  Not mine personally I don't like playing nasty fellows.  I suppose in the instances I mentioned above they could let you exploit otherwise heroic situations to your advantage for personal gain.  I once tried playing a bad guy, I just can't do it, the best (or worst I guess) I could muster was being ruthless to enemies instead of letting them go or giving them another chance. 

Modifié par CarlSpackler, 23 mai 2012 - 07:18 .

[PsychoBlonde]

Dakota Strider wrote...

I guess I want my cake, and eat it too.  Because I prefer my hero to start from humble origins, although perhaps with above average potential compared to his associates.  And then, through the trial of fire, becomes the great heroic champion, that everyone later declares was "the Chosen One."
Heroes are simply ordinary people that have been put into extra-ordinary circumstances and succeeded (or survived).  I am sure that is a paraphrase of a quote from someone famous.  Just no idea who said it first.

Indeed--they don't even need to have above-average potential.  What they need is the drive and focus to actually reach and utilize their potential, which most people don't.

But, yeah, I prefer "There's nobody else HERE to do this" or "Nobody else WILL do this" over "Nobody else CAN do this!"  If there has to be "nobody else CAN do this" moments, they should come late in the game after you've already gone and gotten all the Gear of Ossum and acquired an army of allies and made friends with weird people in out-of-the-way places, so it's more a factor of position than of the Hand of Fate descending from on high.

I also think it'd be cool if they put in moments where you can choose to do things like stay silent or refuse to get involved and the result is a disaster--well, for someone, anyway.

I like the OP's description of alternative "hard choices".  I'd like to see at least some "a plague on both your houses" moments, too.

[AkiKishi]

Totoris'(she's the one in the pic couple of posts up) motivation is to find her mother who everyone else thinks is dead. That's her whole reason for becoming an adventurer (although you can stay in bed and fail). There is no great evil (well it shows up a lot later) it's all about doing things that get you upgrades on your adventurer license which in turn lets you explore new areas.
Rorona is very similiar, it's about keeping an alchemy workshop open which leads you on various adventures (or not if you want the bad end). Both of those games have around 18 different endings. You don't really need to be super herioc as long as you have enough variety to influence your own little corner of the world. This is where DA2 failed miserably.

Modifié par BobSmith101, 25 mai 2012 - 05:16 .

[Dave of Canada]

If I wanted typical hero stuff, I'd go play the countless other games which let me do it.

[Lord Gremlin]

Hm, I actually don't like playing a hero... But then again I like playing an archetypal villain. You know, the type that roasts alive kittens, sacrifices innocent girls to power up his magic and cackles all the time.
Bioware clearly lost their edge in this department, although first Dragon Age allowed you to basically roleplay a selfish, greedy, amoral douchebag who still saves the world.
Anyway. I think what everybody really wants is more roleplay freedom. Ability to roleplay typical hero, or an antihero, or a villain who just happen to save the world.

[CarlSpackler]

Dave of Canada wrote...

If I wanted typical hero stuff, I'd go play the countless other games which let me do it.

And which games would those be exactly?  Point me to them and I'll be happy to play them.  Specifically a game that has Bioware's attention to story presentation and npc quality.  I'm currently not aware of any.

[brushyourteeth]

I personally don't really care whether our pc is born from special hero stock or rises to that level through hard work and awesome - what I need from our pc in DAIII is purpose.

Hawke was incredibly skilled and incredibly ballsy, but she just basically wandered through life and stumbled into greatness. In that sense she felt like even more a puppet of fate than the Warden did. That was awkward for me. If we're going to change the world, I feel like we should at least be proactive about it next time.

Though admittedly I do love an old fashioned "destined for greatness" type character. It might be a worn out cliche, but in a fantasy setting with so many mystical power players, magical elements and unknown variables I feel like there will always be room for it. When a hero asks him/herself the question "Why should I do this?" I feel like "Because I know I was born to do it." is an acceptable answer.

Modifié par brushyourteeth, 28 mai 2012 - 03:30 .

[mopotter]

CarlSpackler wrote...

 I see a lot folks on here making requests for harder
choices, to play someone who is not the chosen one, darker, grittier, etc.  

All fine and good, sure we’ve all seen the chosen one
storyline used ad nauseum (not that either DA game did this mind you) and it is
nice to have to stop and think about choices in a game, but just to balance out
all these requests I’d like to request that Bioware keep on with the heroic
moments.  I want to play a character who
is above average, who at least every once in a while gets to slay the dragon
and save the damsel in distress. 

I know dark and gritty is in these days but just a casual
reader/watcher of the news can see that real life has enough misery going for
it, one of the grand contributions of video games can be some genuine heroic
escapism.  So while I’m not opposed to difficult
moments in the game or a heavier hitting game world (honestly I think the DA
games have done a pretty decent job for the most part at balance so kudos to
the writers) I just wanted to give a little voice to those who like warm
fuzzies of helping imaginary characters out from time to time without finding
out that you get screwed at every turn.  Realism
in video games can be overrated.

I don’t honestly believe that Bioware would really ride off
into super dark depressing territory but as I said I figured I’d add a voice to
those who do enjoy Heroic fantasy as opposed to miserable fantasy.  

On the whole, i agree with you.

I always play the girl scout or the balanced character, but I do like the idea of choosing which path I want to take to get to that heroic ending.  I agree Realism is overrated and I definitely want the warm and fuzzy options, I help everyone I come across, but I would like it to be a choice not a requirement.  

The fun of replaying is to make different choices depending on the character I'm playing.   I really hope they have more than one path to take and the endings can bring both joy and tears depending on what you do throughout the game.  I'll never take the totally dark path, but i do like to tell some characters off.  

Yes - I'll pick Heroic fantasy over dark, gloomy, miserable fantasy any time.

[mopotter]

robertthebard wrote...

Dakota Strider wrote...

I guess I want my cake, and eat it too.  Because I prefer my hero to start from humble origins, although perhaps with above average potential compared to his associates.  And then, through the trial of fire, becomes the great heroic champion, that everyone later declares was "the Chosen One."

Heroes are simply ordinary people that have been put into extra-ordinary circumstances and succeeded (or survived).  I am sure that is a paraphrase of a quote from someone famous.  Just no idea who said it first.

Actually, in Firefly, it's "A hero is a person that gets everybody killed".

 I like that quote.  Also like this one:  A hero is no braver than an ordinary man, but he is braver five minutes longer.  Ralph Waldo Emerson. 

But have to admit  I like this one a lot:  No, what he didn't like about heroes was that they were usually suicidally gloomy when sober and homicidally insane when drunk.” ― Terry Pratchett, The Color of Magic  

LOVE Firefly.  

however, I want my video game hero to be the ordinary person in the extra-ordinary circumstances version.

[Jerrybnsn]

Why do I have that David Bowie song stuck in my head?


edit: You know the one:
I
I will be king
And you
You will be queen
Though nothing will
Drive them away
We can beat them
Just for one day
We can be Heroes
Just for one day

Modifié par Jerrybnsn, 29 mai 2012 - 10:05 .