269 réponses à ce sujet

[curly haired boy]

Don't get me wrong. I like the geth a TON. they're fun to play, they've got some awesome skills and it's refreshing to play as a synthetic.

but they're broken. more broken than the pre-nerf falcon.

they've got:

1) the ability to see every enemy position on the field at all times

2) by far, the highest individual DPS in the game

3) fast movement speed and fire rate

any ONE of those advantages is good; any two are great (see geth engineer - a fairly balanced class), but all 3 are unreasonable.

I've played many, many, MANY matches with my GI and it easily outscores - by a large margin - every other class in the game.

why is this a bad thing? why tone down the GI? why not buff every other class? why does this even matter in a co-op game?

because the power inflation of ME3 multiplayer is going to kick into overdrive if GI continues like this. already we've classified guns according to how fast they kill; we've compared them to biotic explosions and cried out that they couldn't compete. we're comparing every skill and weapon to the ones that kill the fastest, and we're constantly winnowing down our stable of "good" weapons and skills as a result.

geth infiltrator is by FAR the most efficient killing machine. and because it is so good, build diversity will drop even further in the coming weeks as people try to keep up in DPS. the end result? match rooms fill up with GIs just to level the playing field. it's starting to happen as we speak.

furthermore, it's making the game far too easy. calls for a platinum difficulty have been present for a long time, but they're only going to grow in number. 1 GI in a gold match makes it easier than usual; 2 GIs are just carrying the rest of the team. 3 or 4? someone's trying for a 13-minute speed run.

as someone who's unlocked all classes and all non-ultra-rare guns, XP and credits are fairly meaningless to me. i still play because the gameplay keeps my interest, and gold remains a fun challenge with friends...remove that challenge, and i have no motivation to play.


here are some suggestions for adjusting GI to a more reasonable level:

1) always-on enemy vision is too great an advantage. hunter mode is supposed to offset this, but no geth gets shot when they know where every enemy is at all times. breaking line of sight is pathetically easy. Solution? Make enemies show up only while the GI is not moving. this still allows for great situational awareness, but it removes the zero-risk that geth currently have. if you run around willy-nilly, you might get flanked.

2) remove the faster fire speed buff from hunter mode. currently, hunter mode is AR plus marksman all in one, and if you didn't let that fly for shepard in SINGLEPLAYER, you can bet it's unbalanced in multi. revamp the tree to either focus on fire rate and reload speed, or damage boost.


in conclusion: there's a reason why certain guns/characters/etc are prohibited from tournament play. ME3's a co-op game, yes, but that doesn't mean that an OP character can't suck the fun from it just as easily. ME3 thrives on risk and reward; remove the risk and the reward isn't nearly as sweet.

[Zevanix]

They are squishy. Extremely low health, coupled with Hunter Vision's knack for halving shield power makes then a glass cannon class.

Oh, and if everyone else dies on your team, cloak is nearly a moot point.

Modifié par Zevanix, 21 mai 2012 - 05:32 .

[curly haired boy]

Zevanix wrote...

They are squishy. Extremely low health, coupled with Hunter Vision's knack for halving shield power makes then a glass cannon class.

Oh, and if everyone else dies on your team, cloak is nearly a moot point.

in theory, yes - if you take fire, you go down right quick.

in practice, you don't get shot. it's a moot disadvantage in real-world play.

[january42]

I don't think a nerf is really needed. I wouldn't mess with hunter mode, but your #2 one is reasonable. That said, it really just increases build diversity more than anything. The ROF buff is pointless on a sniper or shotgun build and a high ROF build can't use cloak properly

[Topographer]

Tactical cloak coupled with hunter vision easily disregards any weakening of shields while in the mode. This, along with the damage increase, ROF increase, and accuracy increase that hunter mode offers makes it an insanely useful ability. Killing things fast as **** tends to help with survival as well.

Yeah the Geth Infiltrator is too good. Really fun (I use him fairly often), but needs a nerf of some kind.

-Stentron

[heybigmoney]

I do agree that GI is the most powerful class in the game and that it does need to be tweaked, but i don't really see it as a priority considering how many bugs are still left in the game that demand more attention than this. Plus, bad players don't do well with GI. The squishiness of hunter mode gets them killed constantly. In the hands of talented players its incredibly op, but I'm ok with that for now.

[kmmd60]

Oh another nerf post, wait until BW really nerf GI and we'll see the crying post.

Some people never remember the Falcon nerf, they should've learned that lesson a along time ago.

[Amano Kazumi]

I agree the Geth Infiltrator is the best character in the game, top of the top tier in terms of ease of use, damage, and utility, and what's worse is that he makes a lot of classes obsolete, specifically classes who rely on their weapon without good utility otherwise; but I don't think nerfing him in specific would help much. Really, it's the Infiltrator class itself that wrecks so hard; nerf the Geth Infiltrator, and a slew of Salarians and Quarians will rise to take his place. Nerf those guys and the Human Infiltrator would take their place, albeit far less supreme.

I don't quite see the reason you want him nerfed in the current system, though. The Geth Infiltrator's default higher score means nothing in this game competitively; in fact, in all likelihood there will be more XP to go around because of how fast things die. Another point is that most players won't be able to take the Geth Infiltrator into Gold and make the mission so easy for everyone else that it's boring or ridiculously easy (a la Bronze Vanguard, ZZZ if playing with one who knows what they're doing when I go to level characters in Bronze) - if they can do that with the Geth Infiltrator, they could probably do it with any Infiltrator, and probably other classes. I mean, no one's forcing you to play the character; if you think it's too easy using him, just use another character and have fun again.

[curly haired boy]

kmmd60 wrote...

Oh another nerf post, wait until BW really nerf GI and we'll see the crying post.

Some people never remember the Falcon nerf, they should've learned that lesson a along time ago.

i remember the falcon pre-nerf, and although they overdid it, it WAS broken before.

@amano

before the GI debuted, salarian infiltrator was the best sniper, easily posting 120k scores

now people can easily post 170-180k scores while clearing spawns and bosses faster than a pair of biotics.

a 50k point discrepancy between races in the same class is pretty good evidence that something needs to change.

human vanguard can cheese bronze or silver, yeah, but it needs teamwork to work well on gold. GI needs zero teamwork to blow away everything on gold.

as i said before, XP and credits don't matter to me. i'm playing to kill stuff with friends; if the GIs are running around killing things before i even see them, i might as well be AFKing - or playing something else.

[astheoceansblue]

I think they should be balanced a little. With a little bit of practise their squishiness isn't even a concern any more. I run all my infiltrators without fitness on Gold, and I never have a problem (many others do this too).

Gi gets wallhack. Being able to see incoming enemy positions > full fitness on Gold by a very wide margin.

The class definitely needs to be toned down a little.

[d_nought]

Wallhack is pretty nasty, and I don't like how the Claymore + GI can handle every enemy in the game with ease, be better with weapons than most soldier builds AND be team medic and objective thing-do-er, but I am going to continue to play melee GI regardless as a substitute for the Vanguard until Bioware fixes that godawful glitch.

Modifié par chipsandwich, 21 mai 2012 - 01:02 .

[Mandalore313]

They are squishy when they are powerful, so stats wise they're fine.

If you're good at avoiding hits then they are awesome.
But your eyes might start bleeding.

[A Wild Snorlax]

Play a different class if you think it's OP, that's what I do when the game gets too easy, i switch to a drell vanguarrd and realize the game is still easy,. I don't come on the forum and make a topic ****ing about them and try to ruin them for the people that enjoy them.

If you don't like it, don't play it. other people playing it shouldn't affect you in a co-op game, actually it should help you if it's so ''OP''.

And your whole ''number of GI's is only going to increase'' logic doesn't make sense unless everyone are doing speedruns or mindlessly farming, which is not the case. Most people I play with (good players) get bored of using the same class over and over. I don't care if the GI is the best class. I played it a lot at first but I got bored of it and now don't use it that much.

Modifié par A Wild Snorlax, 21 mai 2012 - 01:12 .

[GodlessPaladin]

curly haired boy wrote...

Zevanix wrote...

They are squishy. Extremely low health, coupled with Hunter Vision's knack for halving shield power makes then a glass cannon class.

Oh, and if everyone else dies on your team, cloak is nearly a moot point.

in theory, yes - if you take fire, you go down right quick.

in practice, you don't get shot. it's a moot disadvantage in real-world play.

I'm sorry to be nitpicky, but this is a huge pet peeve of mine whenever someone says that it works "in theory" when it doesn't really work, because it devalues and debases the concept of theory.  Good theory reflects the nature of reality and provides you with an effective means of predicting real world results.  If a theory does not do this, the theory should be tossed out and replaced with a new theory just as surely as a map which gave you wrong directions.  If the map doesn't correspond to the geography of the territory, it must be replaced.

As such, what you should be pointing out is that the person's theory is fundamentally flawed:  Since it does not account for many essential variables that come into play in any practical situation when determining survivability, simply comparing health and shield/barrier values is not a good method for comparing survivability between classes.  Instead, when people say that "in theory" something is flawed, they are implying that theoretical analysis itself is fundamentally flawed, and it's not.

/nitpicky rant

A better theory for determining survivability would account for a fuller range of defensive attributes... including offensive ones that prevent enemies from returning fire.  Simply comparing health and shields to determine survivability is as defunct an idea as comparing health and shields to determine who is the best "tank" (which would discount the best tanks in the game, such as the Human Vanguard or the Salarian Engineer).

Anyways, the GI has plenty of these factors.  It has multiple effective, wide area staggers (such as P.Mine, geth melee, or explosive weapons which synergize quite well with their skillset), a high movement speed which allows it to maneuver to more defensible positions or outright dodge bullets, a wallhack for increased situational awareness so that it won't make as many strategic errors (or can just hit the enemies from behind walls), a dodge for extra maneuverability, the ability to bleed aggro and maneuver unseen until the moment it wants to strike, and deals enough damage that most everything in the room is dead before it can retaliate.  It also is still taking at least 3 hits to go down (because of the shield and critical health gates), which is the same as many other classes being hit by various kinds of enemy attacks.

As such, I would argue that the GI is actually pretty good at survivability, and outclasses characters like the Turian Soldier in that regard.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 21 mai 2012 - 01:29 .

[NuclearTech76]

Horse crap. Most people can't complete a Gold run regardless of the class they use; 3% are full extractions on Gold and most of those are farming runs on FBW. Some other classes need buffs nothing needs to be nerfed at this point.

They should make a higher difficulty level that can be accessed only by elite players who have completed all maps on Gold though.

[curly haired boy]

A Wild Snorlax wrote...

If you don't like it, don't play it. other people playing it shouldn't affect you in a co-op game, actually it should help you if it's so ''OP''.

to be clear: i don't care about score, XP, or credits; i care about how much fun i'm having in a match, and that's closely tied to if i can actually shoot anything. GIs run faster, see enemies before i can, and kill them in scant seconds.

if they're clearing all enemies on a map before any non-geth allies can even see them, where's the fun? why am i even in the match?

to even get a chance at killing something, i have to switch to a geth character and use hunter vision just to level the playing field.  THAT's what's killing build diversity.

[Feneckus]

curly haired boy wrote...

2) by far, the highest individual DPS in the game

Not true. The Human Soldier isn't that far behind.

 

Exact same weapon and equipment, the Human Soldier just takes a couple more seconds. 

The Turian Soldier is also a freaking beast : 
 

[Catastrophy]

curly haired boy wrote...

1) always-on enemy vision is too great an advantage. hunter mode is supposed to offset this, but no geth gets shot when they know where every enemy is at all times. breaking line of sight is pathetically easy. Solution? Make enemies show up only while the GI is not moving. this still allows for great situational awareness, but it removes the zero-risk that geth currently have. if you run around willy-nilly, you might get flanked.

I see your attempt to offer a compromise, but no, I won't take it. Hunter mode makes me FEEL the battlefield, it's a fundamentally different experience, awesome and unique. Hunter view (apart from the blotchy graphics) is the freshest and coolest mechanics I ever experienced in a shooter. It also has contributed a LOT of fun and amazing situations for me. Whenever I switch from GI to a "normal" class I feel kind of naked, although the normal graphics are often a relief and it takes some time to rely again more on the ears, which is also cool (when my headset went broke i immediately went to buy a new one, the normal speakers are just crap.) and you do not seriously suggest to cut the noise and sounds out the enemy makes?
So no, hunter mode battle awareness should not be castrated, it's an essential trait of this ability.

[davishepard]

Theres good and bad GI. Crying for nerf everything that you think is overpowered is childish.

[Clearly Balkan]

How about NO.

[A Wild Snorlax]

curly haired boy wrote...

A Wild Snorlax wrote...

If you don't like it, don't play it. other people playing it shouldn't affect you in a co-op game, actually it should help you if it's so ''OP''.

to be clear: i don't care about score, XP, or credits; i care about how much fun i'm having in a match, and that's closely tied to if i can actually shoot anything. GIs run faster, see enemies before i can, and kill them in scant seconds.

if they're clearing all enemies on a map before any non-geth allies can even see them, where's the fun? why am i even in the match?

to even get a chance at killing something, i have to switch to a geth character and use hunter vision just to level the playing field.  THAT's what's killing build diversity.

If you are playing with people from this forum that are actually good and use the GI a lot I can see why that would be a problem. Randoms are never good enough that this is an issue for me at least, and when I play with friends there's usually never more than one infiltrator unless we decide to go all infiltrators or sometthing.

Tbh I can see why someone would want a nerf to the GI, it is an extremely good class and by far the best in the game atm.  Personally I feel that instead of nerfing the best classes they should improve some of the less popular ones though, imo that's a better way to promote variety.

[We Tigers]

curly haired boy wrote...

A Wild Snorlax wrote...

If you don't like it, don't play it. other people playing it shouldn't affect you in a co-op game, actually it should help you if it's so ''OP''.

to be clear: i don't care about score, XP, or credits; i care about how much fun i'm having in a match, and that's closely tied to if i can actually shoot anything. GIs run faster, see enemies before i can, and kill them in scant seconds.

if they're clearing all enemies on a map before any non-geth allies can even see them, where's the fun? why am i even in the match?

to even get a chance at killing something, i have to switch to a geth character and use hunter vision just to level the playing field.  THAT's what's killing build diversity.

A few ideas:

1. If you're killing everything and that makes you sad, why not turn on your mic and use hunter mode to tell your team where the enemies are? X-ray vision doesn't have to just help you.

2. If it bothers you that much, don't play with geth infiltrators. Just leave lobbies where they show up.

The Geth infiltrator is one of the best designed characters because there's a ton of build variety available. Big enemy sniper, shotgun guy, melee build, hybrid of any of those builds, geth soldier type of build that focuses more on hunter/passive bonuses than cloak, etc. I wish all the classes could have me trying out new things the way I do with the GI.

[N7-RedFox]

Geth are fine.

Now... Protheans and Vorcha as playable please

[Killahead]

I have said it before and will say it again: Hunter mode more than compensates for the low health/ shields, as it gives you total awareness of the battlefield, and to give a class with hunter mode the ridiculous damage bonus (and invisibility) of tactical cloak makes it overpowered, yes. I've seen players go from 30-40 000 points to 120 000 when switching from any other class to the GI on gold. I would love playing as the geth infiltrator if it didn't get the same damage bonus as the other infiltrator classes, that would make it more of a tactical alternative than the damage dealing ones. Some unique and non-damage focused evolutions to tactical cloak could make up for this. Currently this class does it all. Personally I don't want it all, as it gets boring really fast. Limiting yourself is what forces you to adapt, like when playing the drellguard or the krogan, you sacrifice something for something else and change up your play style accordingly.