269 réponses à ce sujet

[Gornok]

When you have hunter mode on, you have shields on par with drells... and with 350 health by level 4 you are not looking at a lot of damage before you are out for the count. Even if they gave you the ability to increase the effectiveness for the shields instead of all the power bonuses then it would be a beat all class, but they are extremely squishy

[Kronner]

Killahead wrote...

2. Yes, but less skill is needed to accomplish this with certain classes.

Strongly disagree. Despite some of the claims in this thread, GI *is* squishy as hell. You *can* be hit even while Cloaked. Add lag or fluke hits into the mix and GI will wipe the floor when you make the slightest mistake. Some classes (for example krogan Vanguard, human NovaSpammer) do not even have to worry about being hit since they either have insane amount of shields or invincibility frames. SI can refill shields *while* Cloaked, and never die. And SI also does have the Proximity Mine. So if their damage output is lower than that of a GI, that is a fair deal as far as I am concerned.

I mean, how do you compare classes anyway*? Talon + KV = invincible machine with great damage output. Claymore + GI = squishy, but agile machine with insane damage output. Sounds like a fair deal to me. Just because a good player can make GI into a Godlike machine does not mean GI needs to be nerfed. A bad player will never dominate with GI anyway.

*in before 200k vs 120k, but score does not matter lol*

Modifié par Kronner, 22 mai 2012 - 02:45 .

[Immortal Strife]

The solution to op characters is to be proactive and create builds that are not op. Look to Stardusk for inspiration, he makes player builds that are away from the norm to increase challenge.

[Killahead]

Kronner wrote...

Killahead wrote...

2. Yes, but less skill is needed to accomplish this with certain classes.

Strongly disagree. Despite some of the claims in this thread, GI *is* squishy as hell. You *can* be hit even while Cloaked. Add lag or fluke hits into the mix and GI will wipe the floor when you make the slightest mistake. Some classes (for example krogan Vanguard, human NovaSpammer) do not even have to worry about being hit since they either have insane amount of shields or invincibility frames. SI can refill shields *while* Cloaked, and never die. And SI also does have the Proximity Mine. So if their damage output is lower than that of a GI, that is a fair deal as far as I am concerned.

I am not the only one in this thread who has played gold, been teamed up with an underperforming player that shouldn't have played gold at all, only to witness this player switch to the GI in the next match and do A LOT better. It depends on the set-up, of course, and melee/claymore builds do have to expose themselves and take more skill than, say, the stupid GPS, but the fact that you have total awareness and tactical cloak more than makes up for the relatively low shields. On gold not many characters can take several shots to their shields anyway, making the shields, and the shield gate, work very similar for most classes. Several such arguments have been made in this thread, just because you think it is squishy doesn't automatically make it so, sorry.

I mainly want to see the GI become a more tactical choice, but HM together with TC damage bonuses makes it kind of silly. It's not true, like someone has claimed, that any change to GI's TC needs to be applied to other infiltrator characters (although I do believe that TC needs some tweaking in general). There's no reasons for this. Reave has a different base damage for the DA and the AJ, for example.

[Terraflare]

Killahead wrote...


Several such arguments have been made in this thread, just because you think it is squishy doesn't automatically make it so, sorry.

And just because YOU think it isnt squishy doesnt make it automatically so, sorry. YOU, and a minority of people on the forum, know the exact way to play to make it not squishy (utilise wallhack, soft cover, fast movement, picking targets, read my list that no one has bothered reading). 

The majority dont. 

Stardusk himself said: Spectre shouldnt be used as a benchmark for a class being OP because "he can do things that 0.000001% of this forum can replicate". How are you not seeing that this applies to you/many frequent forum goers/players as well? You might make up the 1%, or 0.1%, or 0.0001% of the total ME3 playerbase that can actually utilise the GI to its full potential.

Bioware tracks detailed stats on which classes/races get used the most. 20% across all game types choose soldier, supposedly the 'weakest' class (pre-buffs). What does this say? That many players across different platforms playing different difficulties find their comfort zone with different classes. To me, i adapt to the GI squishiness. Some people just cant, and by nerfing the GI's damage output you remove any incentive to these players to even touch the GI.

[Mindlog]

[quote]Terraflare wrote...

Still no one acknowledges the utter fail of an argument that "play 1 class 200k play another class 110k" is.

3rd time

Since no one feels the need to read/reply to this, again: 

Seriously, until someone can answer the point that it is just a small minority of BSN that have literally played since day 1 that can fully utilise the class, this discussion is stupid.
---
Again seriously, some of you guys have been playing this game from the start and know nearly every mechanic to use to your advantage. There are a TON of people out there that play this game without a quarter of the knowledge/experience you have, and the GI is just another fun/viable option for them. [/quote]
[/quote]
Would these players even notice some minor tweaks to the class? The top end can be tweaked without crippling the class for newer players. I don't understand why simply discussing the issue is 'stupid.'

Something as simple as adopting Barrier's purge mechanic into Hunter Mode bonuses could be effective. Most new Krogan soldiers aren't purging their Barriers at every opportunity, but high-level melee Krogans (are they still around?) do.

Please note I am not necessarily advocating HM purging. It's just an example. I'm not attached to the idea and won't defend it at all.

[Striker93175]

Bat Soldier w/ claymore X w/ full power dmg spec up and weapon spec up utilizing explosive ballistic blades and 4 inferno grenades imho beats GI in DPS anyway. He is a walking tank. Roll up onto an atlas on gold - blades then shotty then grenade (blades explode as of this point while your reloading and your blades should be ready into the reload) rinse and repeat or take cover for a brief second then rinse and repeat. Seriously, straight tank mode… you just don’t have range... Brutes, Banshees… explosive blades stagger. Explosive blades even when things dies still go boom and are great crowd control… On silver or bronze just keep in motion running you don’t even need cover just rollup on top of whatever you encounter and dead.... keep on running…

While GI is amazing I honestly prefer GE because while cloak is handy it's not invincibility and a fully powered up shield generating turret by your side makes things super easy for you and anyone even remotely close to it and the whole squishy aspect of hunter mode/health null… Not to mention two or three or four shield generating turrets (friggin hilarious btw and imho seeing 4 of these puppies side by side is whats OP. it's basically invincibility if 1 isn't pumping out shields the other is or the other is or the other is...)

"Cover this one."

Modifié par Striker93175, 22 mai 2012 - 04:31 .

[Immortal Strife]

Changing the GI will cause more alienation, the casual player who can just get by with GI will feel as I'd they don't matter; while, the great players can just choose another character. Gimping the GI will just put the SI back on top of the tier list.

Modifié par Immortal Strife, 22 mai 2012 - 03:22 .

[Killahead]

Terraflare wrote...

Killahead wrote...


Several such arguments have been made in this thread, just because you think it is squishy doesn't automatically make it so, sorry.

And just because YOU think it isnt squishy doesnt make it automatically so, sorry. YOU, and a minority of people on the forum, know the exact way to play to make it not squishy (utilise wallhack, soft cover, fast movement, picking targets, read my list that no one has bothered reading). 

The majority dont. 

Stardusk himself said: Spectre shouldnt be used as a benchmark for a class being OP because "he can do things that 0.000001% of this forum can replicate". How are you not seeing that this applies to you/many frequent forum goers/players as well? You might make up the 1%, or 0.1%, or 0.0001% of the total ME3 playerbase that can actually utilise the GI to its full potential.

Bioware tracks detailed stats on which classes/races get used the most. 20% across all game types choose soldier, supposedly the 'weakest' class (pre-buffs). What does this say? That many players across different platforms playing different difficulties find their comfort zone with different classes. To me, i adapt to the GI squishiness. Some people just cant, and by nerfing the GI's damage output you remove any incentive to these players to even touch the GI.

Valid points, but I don't think the casual players and their references can be the "benchmark" (or what you would call it in english) to base balance changes on. If that was the case, then the USAS-12 with frags would never have been altered in Battlefield 3 (it was ridiculously good and everyone thought so). Most likely the explanation for soldier being the most used class (not by much though) is that everyone is familiar with the name and concept (point and shoot). I have friends that played the demo a lot, but never tried anything else than the soldier class. Bioware will have to listen to the players that stick with the game, players that learn its ropes and master them, if they want the community to live on after a whole lot of other big games have been released.

[Mal3fact0r]

Killahead wrote...

Terraflare wrote...

Killahead wrote...


Several such arguments have been made in this thread, just because you think it is squishy doesn't automatically make it so, sorry.

And just because YOU think it isnt squishy doesnt make it automatically so, sorry. YOU, and a minority of people on the forum, know the exact way to play to make it not squishy (utilise wallhack, soft cover, fast movement, picking targets, read my list that no one has bothered reading). 

The majority dont. 

Stardusk himself said: Spectre shouldnt be used as a benchmark for a class being OP because "he can do things that 0.000001% of this forum can replicate". How are you not seeing that this applies to you/many frequent forum goers/players as well? You might make up the 1%, or 0.1%, or 0.0001% of the total ME3 playerbase that can actually utilise the GI to its full potential.

Bioware tracks detailed stats on which classes/races get used the most. 20% across all game types choose soldier, supposedly the 'weakest' class (pre-buffs). What does this say? That many players across different platforms playing different difficulties find their comfort zone with different classes. To me, i adapt to the GI squishiness. Some people just cant, and by nerfing the GI's damage output you remove any incentive to these players to even touch the GI.

Valid points, but I don't think the casual players and their references can be the "benchmark" (or what you would call it in english) to base balance changes on. If that was the case, then the USAS-12 with frags would never have been altered in Battlefield 3 (it was ridiculously good and everyone thought so). Most likely the explanation for soldier being the most used class (not by much though) is that everyone is familiar with the name and concept (point and shoot). I have friends that played the demo a lot, but never tried anything else than the soldier class. Bioware will have to listen to the players that stick with the game, players that learn its ropes and master them, if they want the community to live on after a whole lot of other big games have been released.

I'm fairly certain most games aren't balanced around the top 0.01% of players who can use every class to it's maximum potential, unless they are aiming at a niche market. Battlefield 3 is also a PvP game, where balance is far more important and even so, some classes/weapon kits are more powerful in the right hands than others, unless everything is homogenized and made exactly the same, 100% true balance is pretty much an impossible dream.

I don't think anyone can argue that the GI isn't a very powerful class, especially in the right hands (the same can be said for other powerful classes). The problem here, and some posters have actually admitted it (kudos to them for being honest) is about being outscored, it's about epeen. It's not about playing whatever class happens to take your fancy and playing it well while helping the team achieve a win, it's that someone outscored you and this "outrage" must be addressed asap.

If you have experience with online games, you likely know that once the nerfing starts it doesn't stop. Say they nerf the GI, everyone who complained about them will be happy until someone outscores them with another class and the cries for nerfs begin anew, this will go on ad nauseum for the life of the game. The solution is in the players hands, if they cannot stand being outscored  (no matter how good they think they are) by a GI then play with like minded people, problem solved.

Looks like there's enough people in this thread offended by being outscored by a GI, they can all play together without it, or they can all take the GI and see who's really the "best".

[Firebald]

A Batarian can win a punching contest with a Brute.

There is no reason to complain about GI's being OP.

[Killahead]

Mal3fact0r wrote...

Killahead wrote...

Terraflare wrote...

Killahead wrote...


Several such arguments have been made in this thread, just because you think it is squishy doesn't automatically make it so, sorry.

And just because YOU think it isnt squishy doesnt make it automatically so, sorry. YOU, and a minority of people on the forum, know the exact way to play to make it not squishy (utilise wallhack, soft cover, fast movement, picking targets, read my list that no one has bothered reading). 

The majority dont. 

Stardusk himself said: Spectre shouldnt be used as a benchmark for a class being OP because "he can do things that 0.000001% of this forum can replicate". How are you not seeing that this applies to you/many frequent forum goers/players as well? You might make up the 1%, or 0.1%, or 0.0001% of the total ME3 playerbase that can actually utilise the GI to its full potential.

Bioware tracks detailed stats on which classes/races get used the most. 20% across all game types choose soldier, supposedly the 'weakest' class (pre-buffs). What does this say? That many players across different platforms playing different difficulties find their comfort zone with different classes. To me, i adapt to the GI squishiness. Some people just cant, and by nerfing the GI's damage output you remove any incentive to these players to even touch the GI.

Valid points, but I don't think the casual players and their references can be the "benchmark" (or what you would call it in english) to base balance changes on. If that was the case, then the USAS-12 with frags would never have been altered in Battlefield 3 (it was ridiculously good and everyone thought so). Most likely the explanation for soldier being the most used class (not by much though) is that everyone is familiar with the name and concept (point and shoot). I have friends that played the demo a lot, but never tried anything else than the soldier class. Bioware will have to listen to the players that stick with the game, players that learn its ropes and master them, if they want the community to live on after a whole lot of other big games have been released.

I'm fairly certain most games aren't balanced around the top 0.01% of players who can use every class to it's maximum potential, unless they are aiming at a niche market. Battlefield 3 is also a PvP game, where balance is far more important and even so, some classes/weapon kits are more powerful in the right hands than others, unless everything is homogenized and made exactly the same, 100% true balance is pretty much an impossible dream.

I don't think anyone can argue that the GI isn't a very powerful class, especially in the right hands (the same can be said for other powerful classes). The problem here, and some posters have actually admitted it (kudos to them for being honest) is about being outscored, it's about epeen. It's not about playing whatever class happens to take your fancy and playing it well while helping the team achieve a win, it's that someone outscored you and this "outrage" must be addressed asap.

If you have experience with online games, you likely know that once the nerfing starts it doesn't stop. Say they nerf the GI, everyone who complained about them will be happy until someone outscores them with another class and the cries for nerfs begin anew, this will go on ad nauseum for the life of the game. The solution is in the players hands, if they cannot stand being outscored  (no matter how good they think they are) by a GI then play with like minded people, problem solved.

Looks like there's enough people in this thread offended by being outscored by a GI, they can all play together without it, or they can all take the GI and see who's really the "best".

I am pretty tired of the "you've been outscored, that's why you want a nerf" argument. It ruins every possibility of having a constructive discussion, and it is impossible to disprove. I've called for nerfing stuff I love several times. I've called for nerfing stuff that I know I can dominate with. I can't believe how hard it is for people to understand that some simply try to see the bigger picture, after having played this game for endless hours. Some of the forum members that have presented similar arguments are well known for being very good players and have posted videos proving it.


But if this is what it will come down to every time, then I will end it here.

Firebald wrote...

A Batarian can win a punching contest with a Brute.

There is no reason to complain about GI's being OP.

And risks a whole lot more than the GI ever has to in the process. That's why you see several "GI domination videos" and few using the batarian.

Modifié par Killahead, 22 mai 2012 - 05:17 .

[Dark Tlaloc]

Mal3fact0r wrote...

Killahead wrote...

Terraflare wrote...

Killahead wrote...


Several such arguments have been made in this thread, just because you think it is squishy doesn't automatically make it so, sorry.

And just because YOU think it isnt squishy doesnt make it automatically so, sorry. YOU, and a minority of people on the forum, know the exact way to play to make it not squishy (utilise wallhack, soft cover, fast movement, picking targets, read my list that no one has bothered reading). 

The majority dont. 

Stardusk himself said: Spectre shouldnt be used as a benchmark for a class being OP because "he can do things that 0.000001% of this forum can replicate". How are you not seeing that this applies to you/many frequent forum goers/players as well? You might make up the 1%, or 0.1%, or 0.0001% of the total ME3 playerbase that can actually utilise the GI to its full potential.

Bioware tracks detailed stats on which classes/races get used the most. 20% across all game types choose soldier, supposedly the 'weakest' class (pre-buffs). What does this say? That many players across different platforms playing different difficulties find their comfort zone with different classes. To me, i adapt to the GI squishiness. Some people just cant, and by nerfing the GI's damage output you remove any incentive to these players to even touch the GI.

Valid points, but I don't think the casual players and their references can be the "benchmark" (or what you would call it in english) to base balance changes on. If that was the case, then the USAS-12 with frags would never have been altered in Battlefield 3 (it was ridiculously good and everyone thought so). Most likely the explanation for soldier being the most used class (not by much though) is that everyone is familiar with the name and concept (point and shoot). I have friends that played the demo a lot, but never tried anything else than the soldier class. Bioware will have to listen to the players that stick with the game, players that learn its ropes and master them, if they want the community to live on after a whole lot of other big games have been released.

I'm fairly certain most games aren't balanced around the top 0.01% of players who can use every class to it's maximum potential, unless they are aiming at a niche market. Battlefield 3 is also a PvP game, where balance is far more important and even so, some classes/weapon kits are more powerful in the right hands than others, unless everything is homogenized and made exactly the same, 100% true balance is pretty much an impossible dream.

I don't think anyone can argue that the GI isn't a very powerful class, especially in the right hands (the same can be said for other powerful classes). The problem here, and some posters have actually admitted it (kudos to them for being honest) is about being outscored, it's about epeen. It's not about playing whatever class happens to take your fancy and playing it well while helping the team achieve a win, it's that someone outscored you and this "outrage" must be addressed asap.

If you have experience with online games, you likely know that once the nerfing starts it doesn't stop. Say they nerf the GI, everyone who complained about them will be happy until someone outscores them with another class and the cries for nerfs begin anew, this will go on ad nauseum for the life of the game. The solution is in the players hands, if they cannot stand being outscored  (no matter how good they think they are) by a GI then play with like minded people, problem solved.

Looks like there's enough people in this thread offended by being outscored by a GI, they can all play together without it, or they can all take the GI and see who's really the "best".

I think you've nailed the basic issue. A decent amount of the "hardcore" players play ME3 co-op like it's competitive, and hate anything that gives another player a score advantage over them. These are the people that don't help out on objectives (cuts down on killing things), and only sometimes grudgingly revive you (because you were a n00b to die in the first place). I can understand if that's the thought process (although I don't really want to play with people like that), but their desires shouldn't be placed above those of the plenty of people who are perfectly happy with how the characters play. I have a Striker X on my Batarian Soldier, why? Because I really enjoy using the gun. It's not the best in the world, and I have other ones that would be more efficient, but instead of complaining that someone else with a Widow X is outscoring me (and thus is OP), I enjoy the loadout for what it is. If you're worried about being outscored, either play the GI, switch to Bronze or Silver (and outscore some "n00bz"), or just suck it up, and try to become more efficient. The GI being good isn't hurting anyone, just as the SI, AA, and all the rest aren't either. It's all about play style.

[BlackbirdSR-71C]

I think the main problem is the combination of hunter mode and cloak - sure, hunter mode has the tradeoff of halving your shields, but unless you deliberately stay in the enemies line of fire that's not gonna be a problem, mostly due to having the ability to evade enemies altogether at the press of a button.

Yeah, seeing enemies is a pretty big advantage, and only being able to do so while standing still would be a step in the right direction - but the humongous DPS they can achieve with a GPS needs to be nerfed as well.

[Sovereign24]

Imo the only thing that needs to be modified about the GI is it's melee. When an infiltrator can melee better than a Krogan Soldier or a Batarian Soldier, you know somethings up.

[Stardusk]

Terraflare wrote...

Killahead wrote...


Several such arguments have been made in this thread, just because you think it is squishy doesn't automatically make it so, sorry.

And just because YOU think it isnt squishy doesnt make it automatically so, sorry. YOU, and a minority of people on the forum, know the exact way to play to make it not squishy (utilise wallhack, soft cover, fast movement, picking targets, read my list that no one has bothered reading). 

The majority dont. 

Stardusk himself said: Spectre shouldnt be used as a benchmark for a class being OP because "he can do things that 0.000001% of this forum can replicate". How are you not seeing that this applies to you/many frequent forum goers/players as well? You might make up the 1%, or 0.1%, or 0.0001% of the total ME3 playerbase that can actually utilise the GI to its full potential.

Bioware tracks detailed stats on which classes/races get used the most. 20% across all game types choose soldier, supposedly the 'weakest' class (pre-buffs). What does this say? That many players across different platforms playing different difficulties find their comfort zone with different classes. To me, i adapt to the GI squishiness. Some people just cant, and by nerfing the GI's damage output you remove any incentive to these players to even touch the GI.

What I meant was rather than giving too much credence to a guy who can solo Reapers Gold on Condor with a Turian Sentinel...and then says, all the classes are equal to a GI, we should look at how most people are and play them. I mean, Spectre makes me look like a below average player.

[dream3873]

I understand your arguments but often I never play GI, but I welcome them because of the shear amount of DPS they supply. Hence making extraction much more likely.

[Kronner]

Stardusk wrote...

What I meant was rather than giving too much credence to a guy who can solo Reapers Gold on Condor with a Turian Sentinel...and then says, all the classes are equal to a GI, we should look at how most people are and play them. I mean, Spectre makes me look like a below average player.

Exactly. Average random dude with GI sucks.

[We Tigers]

You know, even though I think the class is fine, I don't get the argument against, even if we take as fact that the class is easy for average players to master. What Killahead is saying--"an underperforming player who shouldn't even have played gold" becomes good with a GI--who cares? The only way I can read this is that you don't like players you've decided aren't good enough to hang on Gold finding a class with which they can hang on Gold.

Sometimes--often, even!--I do poorly on gold. Gold is hard! Then I switch to a Salarian Engineer or Asari Adept, my two best classes, and destroy the next round. Should we nerf them too, since obviously I'm not good enough to deserve to play on gold?

[Elecbender]

Sovereign24 wrote...

Imo the only thing that needs to be modified about the GI is it's melee. When an infiltrator can melee better than a Krogan Soldier or a Batarian Soldier, you know somethings up.

Its not the melee itself.  But the way its currently being used.

[Killahead]

We Tigers wrote...

You know, even though I think the class is fine, I don't get the argument against, even if we take as fact that the class is easy for average players to master. What Killahead is saying--"an underperforming player who shouldn't even have played gold" becomes good with a GI--who cares? The only way I can read this is that you don't like players you've decided aren't good enough to hang on Gold finding a class with which they can hang on Gold.

Sometimes--often, even!--I do poorly on gold. Gold is hard! Then I switch to a Salarian Engineer or Asari Adept, my two best classes, and destroy the next round. Should we nerf them too, since obviously I'm not good enough to deserve to play on gold?

Of all the arguments I've presented, that's the worst one, haha, lthough it wasn't so much an argument as it was exemplifying. I have played a few hundred gold matches since resurgence, and I find the GI to be pretty unique in this regard. That is, it is the one class every one seems to be confident that they can do well with. They might die a lot and be a nuisance to their team that way, but they always round up a good score. That says something about the class, I think. There is a reason gold is becoming flooded with GIs these days, at least from my experience on xbox. It ruins variety, leaves little room for that rewarding team synergy, and I'm not afraid to admit it: Since I refuse to use the class myself, it makes matches boring, because teamwork isn't appreciated, and because they can destroy everything once they become acquainted with the class.

Whatever. I am swimming against the stream and should probably float along like everyone else.

[Johnny B. Goode]

yes, nerf everything!

[molecularman]

Johnny B. Goode wrote...

yes, nerf everything!

Posts like this make me facepalm

[We Tigers]

Killahead wrote...

We Tigers wrote...

You know, even though I think the class is fine, I don't get the argument against, even if we take as fact that the class is easy for average players to master. What Killahead is saying--"an underperforming player who shouldn't even have played gold" becomes good with a GI--who cares? The only way I can read this is that you don't like players you've decided aren't good enough to hang on Gold finding a class with which they can hang on Gold.

Sometimes--often, even!--I do poorly on gold. Gold is hard! Then I switch to a Salarian Engineer or Asari Adept, my two best classes, and destroy the next round. Should we nerf them too, since obviously I'm not good enough to deserve to play on gold?

Of all the arguments I've presented, that's the worst one, haha, lthough it wasn't so much an argument as it was exemplifying. I have played a few hundred gold matches since resurgence, and I find the GI to be pretty unique in this regard. That is, it is the one class every one seems to be confident that they can do well with. They might die a lot and be a nuisance to their team that way, but they always round up a good score. That says something about the class, I think. There is a reason gold is becoming flooded with GIs these days, at least from my experience on xbox. It ruins variety, leaves little room for that rewarding team synergy, and I'm not afraid to admit it: Since I refuse to use the class myself, it makes matches boring, because teamwork isn't appreciated, and because they can destroy everything once they become acquainted with the class.

Whatever. I am swimming against the stream and should probably float along like everyone else.

Nah, I sympathize, but I guess I kind of see that as what an infiltrator *should* be doing. All infiltrators are DPS machines, and in this game, that equals points. I don't really begrudge an infiltrator scoring high because that's what I think they're supposed to do. The GI just has really good passive boosts, so it's a more straightforward "shoot, shoot, shoot!" character than the debuff/shield stripping human and salarian infiltrators. Perhaps it just has a shallower learning curve, which I don't really see as a bad thing.

Honestly, if QI's backfire sabotage ever gets fixed to get points, I think you'd see even higher scores for a GI. It feels to me like the power is bugged in some weird ways, but that is a seriously straightforward route to killing everything without sweating.

[Immortal Strife]

The SI is just a notch below the GI, then the AA, then the QI, then the...

There will always be a top tier character.

I think some players are just butthurts that their favorite characters fell down a tier.

Modifié par Immortal Strife, 22 mai 2012 - 07:34 .