269 réponses à ce sujet

[curly haired boy]

astheoceansblue wrote...

Moses6533 wrote...

Hunter Mode is a nice but it makes there shields ineffecient, which they rely on heavily.

Oh with practice that is moot....that's a terrible argument because if someone is practicing with a certain build to become good at it then their high score is a reflection of their skill/preactice not an overpowered class, that whole argument just collapses on itslef.

No, it doesn't.

With practise, fitness can be ignored on many of the high damage caster clases. This is true for any average player, imo, and as the Gi has Wallhack AND invisi mode, he's even easier to avoid damge with. 

And Gi is the only one that can consistantly score over 200k. 

And I know players who can 200k with Gi but suck with pretty much everything else. And almsot every match I'm in the Gi outscores the rest by a large margin.

If it were case of player skill alone, these margins wouldnt' be restrcited to the Gi, but they are.

The class simply has too much utility, too many stacking powers, it's too fast to kill things and it makes team games feel imbalanced when they should feel like the entire team is working in tandem.

exactly this.

[Dark Tlaloc]

I don't get why people are always trying to nerf things. Yes, I understand people can't help but get wrapped up in being the top scorer in a match, but at the end of the day, this is a CO-OP game. How does nerfing things help anyone? Every character can be played incredibly effectively by SOMEONE; while certain characters are easier to dominate with, they're not the end-all be-all. People asking for nerfs are either jealous that someone else is able to outplay them with a certain character or weapon (which is life), or are elitists who for some unknown reason aren't able to enjoy anything they can get really good at.

As people have point out, FBW/G/G is essentially a refining of the tactics ME3's gameplay is based around. I understand people don't always want to play that way (which is fine), but that doesn't make it inherently wrong to do so. Likewise, a skilled sniper playing GI will dominate like no other, but shouldn't that be the case? Besides, there are enough bugs/glitches/exploits/lag issues in the game that I don't mind having a few super powerful classes to even my odds. Just like a vanguard, GI is a very high risk/reward character, and only the best players will be able to dominate with them the highest level. All the others will be getting instantly mowed down when out of cloak, or simply not maximizing the potential of whatever weapon they're using.

One last thought: If the GI is TOO efficient, shouldn't reload cancelling be taken out of the game, as well? It's technically an exploit, as you aren't waiting until the reload animation finishes, which could be construed by some as cheating, and yet it's a widely accepted thing for elite players to utilize. If you're so worried about fairness and challenge, perhaps you can challenge yourself to wait until the full reload animation is over, and THEN continue with whatever you're doing. The bottom line is, GI isn't hurting anyone (and plenty of us wouldn't want to play him all the time anyway), so there's no real issue here.

[Mal3fact0r]

A class with first strike capability, high damage that is dependent on stealth (when it doesn't bug or glitch out) is powerful in the right hands. Breaking news! More at 11:00

On a more serious note, if this were a PvP game, you might have a legit complaint, but this is a co-op game. In the right hands a well played GI (or any class for that matter) can make your run go faster, smoother etc benefiting the entire group.

All these threads boil down to one thing, no matter how they are dressed up, and that is being outscored, it's about epeen.  It's not about "challenge" level or any other nonsense, since there is a very simple solution if you find the game too easy with a GI: Don't use it! Create your own games with like-minded people, create your own challenges by using classes viewed as weak etc.

The "solutions" are there, but I suppose it's just easier to call for nerfs.

And no, I don't often use the GI as my eyes can't handle hunter mode and extended use gives me headaches.

[D.Shepard]

Mal3fact0r wrote...


On a more serious note, if this were a PvP game, you might have a legit complaint, but this is a co-op game. In the right hands a well played GI (or any class for that matter) can make your run go faster, smoother etc benefiting the entire group.

That's why I call Geth Infiltrator the Ultimate Equalizer of ME3. When you are playing a Gold match with three unskilled players the GI is your chance to complete the mission in a reasonable without using all your medigel.
He balances teams and currently ME3 MP is flooded with Public not-good teams.

[Master Xanthan]

Oh come on, don't nerf him, I don't even have the character yet. Plus Hunter mode cuts the geth's shields in half, so there is a drawback.

[upinya slayin]

you can set them up for massive melee damage too. we have 3 GIs on a silver match and did it in 15 minutes using mostly melee

[Killahead]

Funny thing is, most players that are complaining about the GI in a constructive way, i.e. making arguments, are the ones that know how to fully realize the full potential of the class, have done so and found it utterly unfulfilling. I don't want things to go smooth, I play gold hoping for a challenge, and sure, you may say: "turn to other games for that", but I do also love this game and the variety and options it offers. Therefore I present my arguments for why I think the GI should be nerfed.

Play with other classes? That's all I do. Haven't touched the GI since day three of the resurgence pack, but three things make me argue for a nerf:

- I wish I could find the GI enjoyable, and it would be if it didn't have massive damage bonuses. That would have made it a tactical infiltrator, hunter mode more than compensating for the lack of a silly 90% damage bonus from cloak.

- I see more and more GIs in gold. It makes games less varied and less team oriented.

- Even a half decent player using the GI can ruin an otherwise fun gold experience. The GI throws down a proximity mine and melts four phantoms with his melee or GPS. I've done it, I've seen it several times. Four phantoms should make me nervous, I want them to make me a bit nervous.

Modifié par Killahead, 21 mai 2012 - 05:49 .

[We Tigers]

Just build your GI different if you truly want a challenge. Take the duration and recharge bonuses in cloak and don't put any points in rank 6. Voila. Now you don't have huge bonuses to your damage and can be plenty nervous on gold. No one is forcing you to play optimally.

[Distilled Poison]

So what happens if the Geth Infiltrator gets nerfed. Will we see more Quarian Engineers? More Krogan Sentinels? More Drell Vanguards?

No. The ****** poor under powered classes need to be fixed loooooong before we should start discussing nerfs on the good classes.

Nerfing fixes nothing.

[drmoose00]

Zevanix wrote...

They are squishy. Extremely low health, coupled with Hunter Vision's knack for halving shield power makes then a glass cannon class.

this. I really have a lot of trouble playing the geth, esp the infiltrator. As you said, hunter mode cuts shield 50%, which makes it very difficult, for me anyway, to stay alive. Hell, in cover popping up for 2 shots can be risky, I find.

And I also find using the GPS with cloak really difficult on the GI. Great combo, but you have to charge it before  cloaking, AND you cannot hold cover while charging or holding a charge. So you are pretty much out of cover all the time with the GPS.

I wish I could use the GI well, and esp with the GPS, which, as one of the 2 weapons I have at X, would be a really awesome combo. But I cannot as yet use the character effectively. I need a lot more practice. I find the SI, with the instant shield restore and armor bonus that comes with it (when spec'd this way) immensely more playable, and more powerful overall.

Honestly I cannot imagine how people solo with a GI. But if you can, more power to you. I'd love some pointers....

Modifié par lemon00, 21 mai 2012 - 06:45 .

[astheoceansblue]

 

Dark Tlaloc wrote...

I don't get why people are always trying to nerf things. Yes, I understand people can't help but get wrapped up in being the top scorer in a match, but at the end of the day, this is a CO-OP game. How does nerfing things help anyone?.

 

astheoceansblue wrote...

With practise, fitness can be ignored on many of the high damage caster clases. This is true for any average player, imo, and as the Gi has Wallhack AND invisi mode, he's even easier to avoid damge with. 

And Gi is the only one that can consistantly score over 200k. 

And I know players who can 200k with Gi but suck with pretty much everything else. And almsot every match I'm in the Gi outscores the rest by a large margin.

If it were case of player skill alone, these margins wouldnt' be restrcited to the Gi, but they are.

The class simply has too much utility, too many stacking powers, it's too fast to kill things and it makes team games feel imbalanced when they should feel like the entire team is working in tandem.

Modifié par astheoceansblue, 21 mai 2012 - 06:51 .

[Siansonea]

You want a challenge? Play a Drell Vanguard or something. If people only want to play the "best" class, let them. Your challenge becomes outscoring them with one hand tied behind your back, with a "dog" class, with crap weapons, or some other self-imposed handicap. Who cares if the rest of the team is Geth Infiltrators? You think this game is about teamwork? If you want teamwork, you play with your friends, not randoms. That's why I play with my friends.

[Killahead]

Distilled Poison wrote...

No. The ****** poor under powered classes need to be fixed loooooong before we should start discussing nerfs on the good classes.

Nerfing fixes nothing.

All classes are gold viable, heck everyone of them has at this point been used in successful solo runs. I don't consider myself an elite player, but I can score 100k with the drell vanguard on gold. Now, considering that there are a lot of players that are much better than me, what will these do once every class becomes just as effective as the infiltrator on gold? They will no longer find a challenge. I dread the day Bioware has buffed all classes to match the infiltrator, then they will have to increase the overall difficulty to keep players interested, and then what was the point of the buffs to begin with? I refer to this post for my opinon on this, only written by someone more fluid in english:

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/343/index/12162746/2#12167370

[Kronner]

astheoceansblue wrote...

The class simply has too much utility, too many stacking powers, it's too fast to kill things and it makes team games feel imbalanced when they should feel like the entire team is working in tandem.

Same can be said for a number of classes. You nerf GI and people will just use SI instead, which is just as powerful anyway and fills the same role. I play all classes and I do enjoy most of them. I seriosuly can't see how could you nerf GI in a way that does not completely destroy its feel (unless it's some nerf just for sake of nerfing, i.e. smaller damage bonus etc.).

Modifié par Kronner, 21 mai 2012 - 07:15 .

[DeathScepter]

Hypertion wrote...

Do not Nerf the GI.

buff the other classes to the GIs level.

Buffing classes and weapons is a good thing.

[Poison_Berrie]

It's actually Hunter mode that's the biggest offender. Not only is it a wall hack and speed buff, it's a straight weapon buff. 5 % less on all things in the weapon branches would be tone things down slightly.

[WARMACHINE9]

except that hunter mode knocks your shields down by 50%. i think tht kinda balances out. plus they gave the GI the biggest throw away power EVER. the prox mine is worthless. you think they would've gotten sabotage like the QI.

[WARMACHINE9]

Oh and DOWN WITH NERF HERDERS!!!!!! All nerfing does is hurt the games it happens in. See Battlefield 3 for example. I stopped playing after Karkarnd because the nerf herders got their way and literaly changed the way the game felt and played.

[Poison_Berrie]

Prox mine offers a solid debuff (20% extra damage) that can get a big radius, staggers most enemies and can also deal some decent damage on the side. If you think proximity mine is worthless you are in a very small group.

[Pho3nix.blackfire]

astheoceansblue wrote...

Moses6533 wrote...

Hunter Mode is a nice but it makes there shields ineffecient, which they rely on heavily.

Oh with practice that is moot....that's a terrible argument because if someone is practicing with a certain build to become good at it then their high score is a reflection of their skill/preactice not an overpowered class, that whole argument just collapses on itslef.

No, it doesn't.

With practise, fitness can be ignored on many of the high damage caster clases. This is true for any average player, imo, and as the Gi has Wallhack AND invisi mode, he's even easier to avoid damge with. 

And Gi is the only one that can consistantly score over 200k. 

And I know players who can 200k with Gi but suck with pretty much everything else. And almsot every match I'm in the Gi outscores the rest by a large margin.

If it were case of player skill alone, these margins wouldnt' be restrcited to the Gi, but they are.

The class simply has too much utility, too many stacking powers, it's too fast to kill things and it makes team games feel imbalanced when they should feel like the entire team is working in tandem.

This. Also Dont know how one can say proximity mine is worthless. Its actually one of best skills in the game 

Modifié par Pho3nix.blackfire, 21 mai 2012 - 08:21 .

[BoomDynamite]

LEAVE MY GI ALONE. THEY ARE MY DAMAGE DEALERS.

[mybudgee]

No, no. The Rage bug must be fixed before we balance any characters...

[sobbos]

Why do you pricks always want nerfs? It's a co-op game, if something is OP just let it be.

[Fortack]

astheoceansblue wrote...

And Gi is the only one that can consistantly score over 200k.

I am sorry, but that's complete BS. If you play with (3) decent/good players breaking the 100k barrier will be a rarity, there is no way anyone will score 200k in one of my matches, regardless the class they're playing.

[Sp3c7eR]

Duh... what a lame thread.


I can outscore any GI with AA vs Cerberus, AA/Turian Sentinel vs Reapers and Kroguard vs Geth. 100% of the time. Why don't you try nerfing them too, hmm?