471 réponses à ce sujet

[FlyinElk212]

It seems as though Bioware's trying to create a continual storyline for the Dragon Age universe.

The problem is that, if they choose to have an ever-revolving door of Main Characters per each game, many players won't care long enough to see that storyline through.

Having 1 consistent protagonist in a series like this is crucially important: take Mass Effect's Commander Shepard, for example. While an avatar of a player and not precisely the player themselves, Commander Shepard created a unique, identifiable persona that everyone within the story and everyone watching the story could relate to, in some way, shape, or form. S/he is the gateway for the player into the universe, and in a sense, is the common bond through all 3 games that appealed to the player's pathos.

Some of the most phenomenal scenes in Mass Effect 3 involved the Final Goodbye's portion, where Shepard walked around to each squadmate and had a touching moment with them before the final battle. It was the culmination of over 100 hours and 3 games worth of dedication. By the end, we felt like the squadmates really became our friends; or family. It genuinely hurt to say goodbye. These guys had stuck by our main character until the bitter end, and the relationships we built with them throughout the series was nothing short of heartwrenching.

Now, try to apply a similar logic to the Dragon Age universe. There will never be a scene like the one I detailed above if the main character keeps changing throughout the series. With a changing protagonist the appeal to the player's pathos is greatly reduced, simply because we cannot fully sympathize with our MC's plight as strongly as we can with a consistent protagonist.

There will never be that common bond which has been with us since the beginning.

There will never be relationships between us (the MC) and our companions
that can be fully actualized and will genuinely hurt when the series is
over.

There will never be a point in which the long term consequences of difficult decisions can be realized from the perspective of the character who made them.

There will never be an opportunity to visit old friends and expound on the relationships we've built with them over the years.

There will never be full immersion into the Dragon Age universe since our perspective is forcibly changed per game.

There will never be pathos.

Bioware, it seemed as though you realized this issue when you created the character "Hawke". You were going to give the player that common bond that the universe so desperately needed- our appeal to pathos. Please do not go back on that ideal. Hawke was part of the problem in Dragon Age 2, but not the problem itself. Bring him back as an appeal to our pathos. Hawke needs to be the main character of Dragon Age 3.

[Uccio]

I actually agree, but, the main character should have been Warden.

[deuce985]

I'd like to see it like this too. Especially since he had no closure.

However, it's wishful thinking. DA devs already said they'd like to make each game from different perspectives and main characters.

[whykikyouwhy]

If the narrative within the Dragon Age universe is meant to span across several decades (which is possible but not certain), it makes a lot of sense to not have a single common protagonist throughout the games.

As for pathos, I know quite a few people who felt that the pre-Archdemon battle scene, in which the Warden speaks to each companion, carried a considerable amount of weight and emotion. I know quite a few people who felt that there were several points within DA2 that were equally moving.

Emotional involvement with characters, and/or storyline, is probably always going to be subjective. Part of that comes from what people want out of their RPG, and who or what within that game resonates with them on a personal level.

While I realize that you are sharing your viewpoint OP, I don't know that it's fair to say there will "never" be X, Y, or Z within the DA games. Again, it's all based on the individual. I can say with certainty that the games thus far have drawn me in, and have made me feel an emotional connection to the story and the characters.

Modifié par whykikyouwhy, 21 mai 2012 - 08:07 .

[Asch Lavigne]

I like the different character for each game idea. The same character ending a Blight, becoming Champion, getting involved in the Mage/Templar war, is just way too unbelievable. You can't have one person do all that. If Dragon Age is about different things happening all over Thedas you can't follow one person the whole time.

My 2 cents.

[Blastback]

I'm okay with switching characters every new game, if they actually give us proper closure with the previous character in the base game and don't mess it up in the DLC like they did with the Warden IMHO.

Unfortunatly, for my money, Bioware has failed to do this twice now.

[Zanallen]

The Suikoden series does new protagonists with each game very well. As does the Arc the Lad series.Sequels don't need to have reoccurring protagonists to be good or have any of those things mentioned in the OP. Each individual game just needs to be more inclosed and hopefully less reliant on the borked import system.

[Vormaerin]

Since you can have emotional connection, consequences, farewells, etc in both "Game A" and "Unrelated Game B" separately, it doesn't make sense to say that you can't have those things in "Game I" and "Game II" that are in a series without having the same protagonist.

Will it be the same as the Mass Effect series? No. But, frankly, that's probably a good thing. Too many decisions and flexible options in ME 1 and ME2 really came back to bite the Devs trying to do ME3.

[Maria Caliban]

FlyinElk212 wrote...

The problem is that, if they choose to have an ever-revolving door of Main Characters per each game, many players won't care long enough to see that storyline through.

This is so true. Look at how the Elder Series bombed because it doesn't have a consistent main character.

FlyinElk212 wrote...

There will never be pathos.

Also true. After all, no one experienced an emotional reaction to either Dragon Age: Origins or Dragon Age II. That you're asking for Hawke's return does not indicate that you had an emotional bond to the character or their companions.

[Welsh Inferno]

Too late for this. If they were gonna keep the same protagonist throughout it would/should have been The Warden.(Oh wait they did want to do that with Brent Knowles in charge. Oopsie)

Actually I couldn't stand another game with Hawke's VO's. Just do not like the voice at all.

Modifié par Welsh Inferno, 21 mai 2012 - 08:40 .

[Zanallen]

Welsh Inferno wrote...

Too late for this. If they were gonna keep the same protagonist throughout it would/should have been The Warden.(Oh wait they did want to do that with Brent Knowles in charge. Oopsie)

Actually I couldn't stand another game with Hawke's VO's. Just do not like the voice at all.

You have some kind of proof to back up that statement? From what I recall, they have been touting Thedas as the main character from the very beginning and always intended to have different protagonists with each game.

[Blastback]

Maria Caliban wrote...

FlyinElk212 wrote...

The problem is that, if they choose to have an ever-revolving door of Main Characters per each game, many players won't care long enough to see that storyline through.

This is so true. Look at how the Elder Series bombed because it doesn't have a consistent main character.

FlyinElk212 wrote...

There will never be pathos.

Also true. After all, no one experienced an emotional reaction to either Dragon Age: Origins or Dragon Age II. That you're asking for Hawke's return does not indicate that you had an emotional bond to the character or their companions.

Well, to be fair, it is a diffrent situation with the Elder Scrolls.  It's more about experianceing the world than a character's story and interactions.  But a different protagonist each game is doable.  They just have to do a better job of giving each character closure in the core game.

[Welsh Inferno]

Zanallen wrote...

Welsh Inferno wrote...

Too late for this. If they were gonna keep the same protagonist throughout it would/should have been The Warden.(Oh wait they did want to do that with Brent Knowles in charge. Oopsie)

Actually I couldn't stand another game with Hawke's VO's. Just do not like the voice at all.

You have some kind of proof to back up that statement? From what I recall, they have been touting Thedas as the main character from the very beginning and always intended to have different protagonists with each game.

I can't remember where(I think one of Brent's blogs) but tidbits bits of info came out over a year ago & I remember it was the original intention to carry on with the Warden. When that changed, I dont know. Make of that what you want.

[HiroVoid]

Just about positive the original plan was to have Hawke as a continuous MC like Shepard, but that kind of changes when DA2's reception came in.

[brushyourteeth]

It was a great feature of the Mass Effect games, but I like that Dragon Age is different in this respect. The games are about the world and the history making events of the time period. We get to cruise through Thedas' Dragon Age and meet and/or live through all of its most notable historical figures. I personally really like making DA history as part of a collective of characters. Seeing Hawke flee the Blight to forge a new life while the Warden was staying back to destroy it was like passing the baton to a team mate. Now the torch is going into the heart of the Templar/Mage struggle, which is something that the Warden would have no business getting involved in (without some far-fetched magical method of fighting darkspawn suddenly drawn up).

I definitely see your point and can respect it, but I really like that the DA narrative isn't restricted to one protagonist, one antagonist, one crisis, or one time period.

[cephasjames]

Just like in D&D's the Forgotten Realms or Tolkien's Middle Earth, the setting of Dragon Age is the main character. So, the main character has not changed in the two DA games. Protagonists and lands of different stories can change for every story, but the main character of the Dragon Age is the constant. Focusing on the Warden of Hawke as the main character is missing the forrest for the trees.

[Reidbynature]

Couldn't disagree more with OP.  If the story is good enough it will accommodate multiple protagonists and having three different protagonists is hardly a revolving door.  I honestly don't see people turning down a good story or game just because there's a new protagonist.  Also, Mass Effect was Shepard's story from the beginning.  Dragon Age was established with a nameless (and also void of personality) character that the player could explore the world through.

If Hawke had started off Dragon Age then I could see people being more attached to him/her and really upset they weren't playing as him/her, but even then I think they would get over it and accept new games and new heroes if it was good.  The overall story of Dragon Age isn't tied down to the protagonist, so a new player character isn't a bad thing.

HiroVoid wrote...

Just about positive the original plan was to have Hawke as a continuous MC like Shepard, but that kind of changes when DA2's reception came in.

That does seem like a reasonable guess.  DA2 seemed like it was desperately trying to ape Mass Effect at times.

Modifié par Reidbynature, 21 mai 2012 - 10:50 .

[Sutekh]

FlyinElk212 wrote...

There will never be full immersion into the Dragon Age universe since our perspective is forcibly changed per game.

That's one of the upsides of a change of character: new perspective. Which is exactly what allows immersion in the world as opposed to immersion in the character's life.

There will never be pathos.

There was pathos in DAO. Lots of it. Yet the character was obviously brand new. There also was pathos in DA2 with Hawke. Very powerful pathos, if I might add (of course it very much depends on the person who plays, as all pathos things go).

---

Begemotka wrote...

I think there is a difference here - the TES games being set so far apart in time made sure your previous PCs did not coexist at the same time in the same world.

 There's only two years between Morrowind DLC Bloodmoon and Oblivion (seven between the two main games). The Nerevarine and the Champion of Cyrodiil coexist (the Nerevarine is AWOL, though). TES doesn't focus on characterisation (at all), but people can get very attached to their PC, and I remember some grumbling at the time that we coudn't play the Nerevarine again. Just like the Warden and Hawke, the guys deserved some long-due vacations, though.

[King Cousland]

 A series only needs a consistent protagonist when that series is about the prtoaginist. I don't mean to sound rude, but I really do wish people would get it into their heads that Dragon Age is about the world, not any one person in it. 

[mrgc]

OH PLEASE....I can have the same experience( of the world of Thedas) with the same protagonist,than with a diffrent protagonist each time.Yes maybe dragon age is suppose to be about Thedas,but then they should'nt have made it the way that you get attached to a protagonist.What probably will happen now is that with any future games bioware, will have alot of fans screaming for past protagonist..even if bioware tries to make it easier by killing of a old protagonist it will still upset fan,because it was their character and they got attached to that said character.
But personally I NEVER EVER want Hawke as a pc again.

[robertthebard]

mrgc wrote...

OH PLEASE....I can have the same experience( of the world of Thedas) with the same protagonist,than with a diffrent protagonist each time.Yes maybe dragon age is suppose to be about Thedas,but then they should'nt have made it the way that you get attached to a protagonist.What probably will happen now is that with any future games bioware, will have alot of fans screaming for past protagonist..even if bioware tries to make it easier by killing of a old protagonist it will still upset fan,because it was their character and they got attached to that said character.
But personally I NEVER EVER want Hawke as a pc again.

If you make a game where the player doesn't get involved with the main character, then it's going to fail.  Nobody is going to be impressed enough to tell their gaming friends, or to invest in expansions/DLC whatever.  You have to have a hook, and the easiest hook is to get people emotionally invested in the character.

[Sacred_Fantasy]

Consistent MC and continual storyline in DA?
They have big problems that continue to haunt their game. Import saves bug and retcon characters due to inconsistency to maintain the integrity of some endings in previous title...So focusing the world itself as the character is a better solution than focusing on MC.

[Aleya]

I like what they've done with changing the protagonist. It allows for different perspectives on the world of DA, the same way the different Warden origins did.

Also, the only character who can reasonably be set up as a constant protagonist is Hawke, any attempt to account for all the different Wardens and the choices they've made would fail, badly. I think it would be a terrible decision to make the protagonist of the second game in a series constant.

(It also means I can't get stuck with a protagonist I don't like *cough* Hawke *cough*)

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

They made this claim of the import bugs for a constant protagonist yet they didn't seem to have much difficulty with the imports for Mass Effect 1 thru to Mass Effect 3. Mass Effect 1 was an exclusive Xbox game. DA2 should have resolved some storylines better such as Morrigan/OGB. What is the warden's various relationships with his/her former companions? Seems to me if you didn't do the US then your name is mud in Thedas, or this is the impression that I'm getting.This should have been the second game then 3 should have been Hawke's story. Now we're being told that Hawke's story is now ended. This is getting old really fast.

I would have loved to had dlc for Alistair and Zevran regarding their lives before Origins or after, those of us who wanted that type of dlc didn't get it. Those who did with Morrigan/Leliana did get it.

It's obvious to me that many want the OGB/Morrigan storyline resolved. If you didn't do the DR there is still two Arch Demon's left for that to happen if they choose to do something with this. If you did the DR then allow the Warden to come back and deal with her and Flemeth. If you didn't do the DR then have them give you a major quest as a branch. I don't see it being that difficult to do. I'm not a game designer through in fairness.