471 réponses à ce sujet

[Dave of Canada]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

This is something that I have been thinking about the past few days actually.

I remember back in the day (before I was on this rocking chair telling kids to get off my lawn) when game imports were usually nothing more than stat/inventory imports, if they exist before. We typically had to accept that some decisions from the sequels were just canon.

People clearly like the idea of reactivity continuing into the next game, but how do we balance telling an interesting story that we want to create for the player, and creating choice?

The Old God Child is probably the biggest point, because it's one that those that did the ritual are definitely super interested in, but if we force a game plot to utilize it, then those that didn't choose it may feel marginalized and jaded that the choice wasn't reflected. At the same time though, I think fans would have been MORE upset if the dark ritual was forced. I suppose we could have had Morrigan forcibly do it with someone else, but that ship has sailed.

Discuss (and be gentle! >.>). I'll grab the popcorn. I may split this into a separate thread though if people want to run with it.

My problem with the Dark Ritual are the unimplied consequences, nothing is implied about what could possibly occur from letting the Old God live. The implication isn't good in DA:O, however Morrigan's portrayal in WH as somebody with possible noble intentions has slowly diverged the implications from "bad" to "grey".

What occurs if the consequences are good for one group and bad for another, something completely unforseen when the choice was offered? The people who've done the Ritual feel "betrayed" if their prefered group gets screwed and those who didn't do the Ritual if it screws their own group, for example.

Thus, I truly believe, the consequences of the Dark Ritual must be something which is explored more and can be directly stopped or recreated--possibly with other consequences involved--which would give newer players and older players alike the consequences from the decision they crave for without needing to play DA:O again.

Hypothetically if the god baby teared the veil wide open and it empowers Mages against the Templar. Having Morrigan working on an alternative solution without the baby would be nice, players who didn't do the ritual and are pro-mage can work towards the alternative which might have far dire consequences for a similar end result. Opposite for those who've done the Dark Ritual and are pro-Templar.

My biggest problem with the choice is:

• Little to no suggestions as to what could occur when presented with the choice, unlike say... Bhelen/Harrowmont which you could discover by listening and seeing around.
• Newer players aren't explained why the Warden survived in the "Hero of Ferelden" import, they'd be all confused when Morrigan shows up with a god baby and does something with it.
• Forcing the choice to be two games ago certainly hurts resources if ever something is done in the game itself with it (without forcing a canon), as the people to experience it and be more involved with it are possibly more in minority.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 31 mai 2012 - 03:56 .

[brushyourteeth]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Oh! The Old God Baby! Please, BW. Please, I beg you...address this. I know not not everyobne did the dark ritual...but that's never stopped you before.

This is something that I have been thinking about the past few days actually.

I remember back in the day (before I was on this rocking chair telling kids to get off my lawn) when game imports were usually nothing more than stat/inventory imports, if they exist before. We typically had to accept that some decisions from the sequels were just canon.

People clearly like the idea of reactivity continuing into the next game, but how do we balance telling an interesting story that we want to create for the player, and creating choice?

The Old God Child is probably the biggest point, because it's one that those that did the ritual are definitely super interested in, but if we force a game plot to utilize it, then those that didn't choose it may feel marginalized and jaded that the choice wasn't reflected. At the same time though, I think fans would have been MORE upset if the dark ritual was forced. I suppose we could have had Morrigan forcibly do it with someone else, but that ship has sailed.

Discuss (and be gentle! >.>). I'll grab the popcorn. I may split this into a separate thread though if people want to run with it.

We all know Morrigan could have jumped Riordan. Run with that.

She said he wasn't ideal because he'd been a Warden longer, but stranger or equally strange things have happened (like Grey Wardens getting pregnant). Also if Morrigan was able to use blood magic for the ritual she could have easily used blood magic mind domination to get Riordan or Alistair to sleep with her anyway.

Or since Flemeth seems to know just about everything about everything anyway, Morrigan in her desperation to make the child happen could have given herself the Joining (plenty of darkspawn about) and then gotten herself pregnant (plenty of lonely soldiers about) and then followed you to Fort Drakon disguised or hidden in shadow.

It's a retcon, absolutely. But any fan that knows Morrigan is also crazy if they think she'd follow the Warden all that way to get the Old God Baby and then just walk away disappointed if you said no. She's way more determined and crafty than that - she had a plan B. to make it happen. Really you guys only need to come up with your favorite explanation. Even if we fans refused her proposal on a single playthrough, we're all still dying to know what that plot twist is about, and we don't really expect Morrigan to take no for an answer.

Modifié par brushyourteeth, 31 mai 2012 - 04:31 .

[Brockololly]

Allan Schumacher wrote...
People clearly like the idea of reactivity continuing into the next game, but how do we balance telling an interesting story that we want to create for the player, and creating choice?

Ideally, you'd make sure that whatever perceived Big Choices are being offered to the player in one game will either have Big Consequences for the player (and the same player character) to play out within the same game or a following game. So you account for the varying choices possible and like The Witcher 2, create unique content to accomodate the possible choices and consequences for the player/player character.

Allan Schumacher wrote...
The Old God Child is probably the biggest point, because it's one that those that did the ritual are definitely super interested in, but if we force a game plot to utilize it, then those that didn't choose it may feel marginalized and jaded that the choice wasn't reflected. At the same time though, I think fans would have been MORE upset if the dark ritual was forced. I suppose we could have had Morrigan forcibly do it with someone else, but that ship has sailed.

It entirely depends on where the overall story is going and on that note, I've given up trying to figure that out. Add in who the Player Character would be thats possibly dealing with the consequences of the Old God Baby/Dark Ritual choice (which is assumed to not be the Hero of Ferelden) and that further complicates issues as well.

As far as imports go, if we're going to be having a rotating door of Player Characters with each game, then I truly would want most BIG choices/consequences self contained within the game the player character is making them. Its not just seeing or hearing about the consequences, its being able to react to the consequences to past choices as the player character who made those choices in the first place. So I'm not sure I'll be nearly as enthusiastic or exicted to see possible ramifications of the Dark Ritual/OGB when it seems almost a forgone conclusion at this point that we would not be controlling the Warden that possibly opted for the Ritual,or romanced Morrigan or hated Morrigan and stabbed her or was BFFs with Morrigan-  it would be some other person that had no knowledge of what was going on and didn't make the Big Choice themselves, thus making it immediately less of an emotionally engaging follow up and more an academic one, seeing the consequences in a more removed, passive way, through the eyes of somebody who didn't make that choice and thus, why should they care personally about the consequences?

With imports, I'd vastly prefer 1 or 2 BIG choices to possibly carry through and the rest can be tiny flavor dialogues you maybe hear in taverns or notices posted on walls and the like that change based on past actions from past PCs. No cameos from old characters even, as they feel kind of empty more often than not when they're cameos being made by old NPCs interacting with a new PC who they don't even know.

Or, instead of simply forcing a new PC onto the stage with each game, you could structure new games differently, think something like the Starcraft campaign, where you could play as an old PC (assuming they survived) for one act and thus still experience consequences to old choices in the most meaningful and direct way, via the PC that made those choices. Then go to a new PC for a subsequent act and shift as necessary. Or even allowing the player to temporarily play as an old PC to at least give the player a taste of the consequences of the PC's old actions via interacting with old NPCs and so forth, instead of being stuck as the new PC who had nothing to do with the initial choice and subsequent consequences being imported into the new game.

So for something like the Dark Ritual/ OGB choice, what I envisioned back before Awakening or DA2 came out, was that possibly if we were playing as the Warden (either the Hero of Ferelden or Orlesian at this point) that choice is recognized via meaningful consequence not only as creating the OGB, but the fact that your Warden survives killing the Archdemon. Or you survived by turning down Morrigan but letting Alistair or Loghain kill the AD. Or the consequence to turning down Morrigan is you make the Ultimate Sacrifice and oh, guess what, you have to play as the Orlesian in Awakening and not your old Warden because you killed them. Thats a meaningful consequence righ there I wish we had and would have made the Ritual choice that much more meaningful- its not just about the OGB, its about your Warden surviving, presumably to do something of note beyond being written off or relegated to awkward cameos.

So basically, whatever plot role the OGB might or might not have, it would be connected to whatever Morrigan is up to. And if the OGB is present, then maybe one plot starts out down Path A from the start and if you didn't have the OGB, then Morrigan's story goes down Path B from the start, since the OGB is not present. It wouldn't necessarily be that anyone would be being robbed of content, but that OGB or no OGB would each have unique content. Expensive to make, I'm sure, but I think it would be worth it to not only make your choices have meaningful consequences to experience in game but to add replay value. Not unlike The Witcher 2 and the Iorveth/Roche paths result in drastically different experiences or even Alpha Protocol, where based on your actions, you might not meet certain characters, but you never even realize it. Or even DAO and the unique content you had with the Origin stories.



So its not so much as forcing the RItual on people that didn't do it. Its making sure that those people that did not do the RItual have unique content as well that recognizes they're in a world without the OGB or a world where the Ritual was not performed, if it had any other consequences we don't know about beyond the OGB and Warden capable of killing the AD without dying. And that mostly gets to the issue of whether or not BioWare would be willing and/or interested in making a game which features that amount of unique, exclusive content for a major story branch and not just little dialogue variations.

Dave of Canada wrote...
My biggest problem with the choice is:
Little to no suggestions as to what could occur when presented with the  choice, unlike say... Bhelen/Harrowmont which you could discover by  listening and seeing around.

Forcing the choice to be two games ago certainly hurts  resources if ever something is done in the game itself with it (without  forcing a canon), as the people to experience it and be more involved  with it are possibly more in minority.

Newer players aren't explained why the Warden survived in the "Hero of Ferelden" import, they'd be all  confused when Morrigan shows up with a god baby and does something with
it.

True, the Ritual choice is left so incredibly vague as to be worthless in what it could possibly mean in terms of consequences. Its not like the choices/consequences in something like The Witcher where you might have unexpected consequences from an action, but they make sense and always seem plausible. That way the DR/OGB has been established, I feel they could literally go anywhere with it, good or bad, since they did next to nothing with the conversation with Morrigan in DAO where she just talks in circles of cryptic mumbo jumbo rubbish. Same with Witch Hunt to some extent as to what her ultimate plans are or what lies beyond the Eluvian- they're so vague to the point of being worthless.

As for the whole alienating new players deal, if its a new PC interacting with Morrigan anyway, presumably they don't know who she is, so her showing up or not showing up with a OGB in tow wouldn't make any difference if they don't necessarily know its a variable in the first place. Kind of how you can go through Alpha Protocol without meeting SIE- you're not going to know unless you look outside of the game as its a consequence based on your actions, just as much as your import state is. Just have the OGB world state be something modifiable by everyone in the beginning, especially because every Morrigan import has been borked thus far, too. Presumably if they're doing anything of note with the OGB or Ritual they'd need to explain the Warden's role in it anyway, as the Warden surviving the final blow against the AD is as much part of the RItual as the OGB- its something that presumably has never been done before in the history of Thedas.

But I'd agree in the sense that the time to do something of note with the OGB was soon after DAO. At this point, especially after the sour taste DA2 left for many people, I'm not sure what kind of impact it would have.

Modifié par Brockololly, 31 mai 2012 - 05:02 .

[TEWR]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

People clearly like the idea of reactivity continuing into the next game, but how do we balance telling an interesting story that we want to create for the player, and creating choice?

Seven words: Self-contained choices that create divergent paths.

In essence -- and really, the ideal scenario zots provided -- Choice A leads to Path A which is noticeably different from how Choice B would play out when it leads to Path B. But those choices would be wrapped up in-game and you would have no real need to import those choices over. The ramifications of them would have already been seen.

Were this a no-spoiler forum, I'd post my idea for how Act of Mercy could've ideally played out that would've really helped the game, considering Act III's Best Served Cold was just a cluster**** of failure -- for severe lack of a more eloquent phrasing.

Allan Schumacher wrote...

The Old God Child is probably the biggest point, because it's one that those that did the ritual are definitely super interested in, but if we force a game plot to utilize it, then those that didn't choose it may feel marginalized and jaded that the choice wasn't reflected. At the same time though, I think fans would have been MORE upset if the dark ritual was forced. I suppose we could have had Morrigan forcibly do it with someone else, but that ship has sailed.

Well, there are ways the Old God Baby could exist in a "Warden is dead" playthrough, though not by Morrigan's originally proposed idea.

I've said in the past that maybe Morrigan proposed the DR not because it was the only method, but because it was the easiest method. She never says it's the only way, IIRC. Perhaps there's a longer method that would allow her to obtain the Old God's soul after it died -- and since it's dead, the Warden is too -- but it's very time-consuming and not her ideal method.

And perhaps when you meet her in future games, she's got a different persona towards the Warden and maybe she does some different actions.

Rough description. I could elaborate, but it doesn't really seem to be something worth doing since I doubt it would be considered.

But I mean, would Flemeth -- the one who wanted the Old God Baby in the first place -- really send Morrigan out there without a backup plan in the off chance the Warden refused? Doesn't seem like her. 

And would Morrigan really give up, just because someone said "No"? That doesn't even seem like Morrigan. I'm not a fan of this notion that if the PC says "No", NPCs automatically give up on what they want.

Would they still succeed? Depends on the NPC and what they want. But to give up because someone told you "No" is unrealistic, really. People -- usually teenagers -- will keep trying to do what they wanted despite being told "No", if there's nothing really keeping them from doing it.

But it's a double-edged sword, indeed. On one hand, you have the choice recognized. On the other hand, people will always be upset.

Even if it was said that she did the DR with Alistair, Loghain, or Riordan behind the Warden's back; then you could just say the Warden died of injuries sustained in battle. There's an explosion and a concussive blast of energy.

Would people like that? Probably not all.

Allan Schumacher wrote...

before I was on this rocking chair telling kids to get off my lawn

My God.... Bioware has Clint Eastwood working for them.

Brockololly wrote....

Or, instead of simply forcing a new PC onto the stage with each game, you could structure new games differently, think something like the Starcraft campaign, where you could play as an old PC (assuming they survived) for one act and thus still experience consequences to old choices in the most meaningful and direct way, via the PC that made those choices. Then go to a new PC for a subsequent act and shift as necessary. Or even allowing the player to temporarily play as an old PC to at least give the player a taste of the consequences of the PC's old actions via interacting with old NPCs and so forth, instead of being stuck as the new PC who had nothing to do with the initial choice and subsequent consequences being imported into the new game.

I haven't played Starcraft, but -- and I've said this before -- this idea was utilized to an extent in Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn.

In one chapter, you'd play as Ike as he fought against the nation of Daein. In the next, you'd play as Micaiah who was fighting for Daein.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 31 mai 2012 - 05:31 .

[hussey 92]

I would have been ok with them bringing the Warden back. But it would be a big mistake for Bioware to bring back Hawke after all the negative reception he received.

[AkiKishi]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

This is something that I have been thinking about the past few days actually.

I remember back in the day (before I was on this rocking chair telling kids to get off my lawn) when game imports were usually nothing more than stat/inventory imports, if they exist before. We typically had to accept that some decisions from the sequels were just canon.

People clearly like the idea of reactivity continuing into the next game, but how do we balance telling an interesting story that we want to create for the player, and creating choice?

The Old God Child is probably the biggest point, because it's one that those that did the ritual are definitely super interested in, but if we force a game plot to utilize it, then those that didn't choose it may feel marginalized and jaded that the choice wasn't reflected. At the same time though, I think fans would have been MORE upset if the dark ritual was forced. I suppose we could have had Morrigan forcibly do it with someone else, but that ship has sailed.

Discuss (and be gentle! >.>). I'll grab the popcorn. I may split this into a separate thread though if people want to run with it.

The way I see it you can either have self contained games which let you do anything you like because in the end it does not matter because the game stands alone(Fallout/PST).
Or you have a series in which elements of the previous game carry over. ME3 is an example of how not to do it, when it came down to picking a colour, nothing else mattered.
The other alternative is to have a franchise which is linked by common elements but are otherwise independent. Final Fantasy is the best example of this.

Things are going to happen whether the PC wants them too or not. Theres probably a dusty tome somewhere with an alternate way of getting an OGB if you wanted one.

Just a couple of points.

1. Don't do long term wrap-ups. Events are not static even with the best intentions the PC won't always get their own way. Something may turn out to have an unforseen consequence. If this is the case EXPLAIN it. No Udina when you picked Anderson with no idea why unless you read a book.

2. Don't be afraid to kill off the PC if their story is over. This dissapearing act gets really old and gives people expectations. Do however let the player see how the sacrifice was worthwhile. Not like ME3 where everything just blows up in a different colour. First and foremost characters are their to serve the story.

3. Do at least have some idea what sort of story you are telling before you get to the end. Don't set things up in one game then do a 180.

4. The longest running and most successful series are a combination of strong plots and filler. Even if you have plot not everythning has to be related to it. It's a big world after all. The sooner you break people of certain expectations, the sooner you can move on.

5. Make the game you want to make and make it good. People are always going on here about not wanting to be the straight white guy. But Witcher 2 never suffered for it. DA2 suffered because it tried to be too many things to too many people and failed. You can't do that without considerable time and money. If you think a very set protagonist suits the style, then use it.

Modifié par BobSmith101, 31 mai 2012 - 09:04 .

[Tirigon]

There is no consistent story. DA2 has nothing to do with DAO save for the name and a few (badly done) cameos.

[fchopin]

New pc character
New companions
New story
New dialogue system

No OGB
NO Hawke
No Warden
No DA2 style graphics
No DA2 anything

This is my opinion and this is what i would like for DA3 and i would be ready to buy.

[robertthebard]

Tirigon wrote...

There is no consistent story. DA2 has nothing to do with DAO save for the name and a few (badly done) cameos.

Interesting position.  However there are things that can happen in DAO, or DAO DLC that can carry over.  Not all of it, obviously, Eluvian comes to mind, but some from the Warden's Keep can, if played just so.  How one of the treaties is handled can add side quests/encounters.  Just little things that I've noticed here and there while playing.  Things like who's ruling Ferelden, the blight, etc etc.  Just because the Warden isn't the MC doesn't mean they aren't related.

[AkiKishi]

sjpelkessjpeler wrote...

Maybe other things that are not companion related can be adressed to in further games much easier without people needing to play the previous games to understand what they're about. And do not need the presence of those characters involved.
Excamples for this are 'the band of three' and the 'warden document quest'.

That's the danger of dragging things out too long. This is why I prefer franchises over series. Dragon Quest is upto X and although I've played all of them (yay for handhelds) I don't NEED to play them and I don't really miss anything from X by not having played them.
Take something like ME3 and if you have not played at least ME2 you get the B list cast.

Another factor is the passage of time. Atelier Meruru would have required that Rorona be in her 30's. Because of key aspects of her character both the fans and the game creators wanted her to stay as her younger self (being an alchemist it's easy enough to rationalise an explanation) much the same as time never passes in long running anime series like Conan. Which throws up an interesting dilema if you have a character that is 40 years older than it was in DAO is it still the same character?

[AngryFrozenWater]

I think I rather go for Brockololly's idea that choice A leads to exclusive path A and choice B leads to exclusive path B in a self-contained manner. Although I usually like The Ethereal Writer Redux' posts, I think his idea to replace events by alternate ones to keep the story on track (like keeping the OGB when the Warden was not involved and it got there by other means), may sound attractive, but is exactly what bothered me in ME3. In that game you could kill the rachni queen or not, but it really didn't matter, because when you killed her she was replaced by an artificial one created by the reapers. It played out much the same. You never saw the queen's troops fighting near the ending and at best Hackett told you that they were a great at working at the Crucible. Whether or not saving the rachni queen or whether or not performing the ritual, it kept posters busy for years speculating on the forums. You cannot wave such a main decision away by just letting it pass in a "by-the-way"-like conversation.

Consequences in the form of cameos do not cut it for me. There is one in which werewolves are attacked by elves. It only appears after the werewolves survived. You won't miss it when you made another decision. It has no impact either way. When there are a lot of those then it gets confusing at best. Oh, here they are. It looks like I sided with the werewolves. Or, if I take the next corner then I know whether this character sided with the werewolves. Or, after several playthroughs, cameos and dialogue line changes become nothing more than a background noise. Yes, I played the game more than once.

Brockololly also mentioned that when the PC changes in a new title with a new PC then the consequences of decisions have less impact. But I think that is only true when that involves decisions on a personal level. The Old God Baby can be related to Flemeth and if she appears in the new title then at least mention that. To be frank, Flemeth was nothing more than a set piece in DA2. She wouldn't be missed in the main story. She saved the PC from darkspawn and fiddled with Merrill so that you found the mirror, but her rescue could have been played by someone else and the mirror was not important in the main story at all. Making her mysterious, just for the sake of it, serves no purpose.

To improve upon that, I think it is better to deal with consequences of decisions within the same title. That way it has the most impact for the PC. It also ends cliffhangers from one title that are not dealt with in the next title. It also avoids Brockololly's suggestion to have the old PC appear in the next title. That way the writers can concentrate with only a few of the consequences in the next title. That should reduce the complexity of the next title. Also, BW has the tendency to wrap these under the carpet in the hope that people forget. Alas, they don't. I don't want to be rude, but continuity is really one of the weak points of BW. That and patches. So a reduction of cliffhangers would be a good thing. That also helps new players for which these consequences are abracadabra.

BTW: I really like Allan Schumacher's involvement in this thread.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 31 mai 2012 - 01:51 .

[AkiKishi]

Begemotka wrote...
I see your point,but in the case of  Mass Effect,it was clearly designed to be a trilogy,and therefore it should be played as a trilogy.
It`s like watching The Return of the Jedi without having watched Episode IV and V.You shouldn`t get the same experience as those who watched the whole thing,and you know going in that you are watching the final installment of a series.  (I know I am comparing movies to VGs,and I left out the prequel SW episodes,but you know what I mean).

DA appears to be a strange hybrid. It was obviously not meant to be Dragon Effect,but then we were given choices that are not to be easily dismissed. In the case of the DR / OGB, that is one big dilemma wiser people than I are trying to solve right here. Obviously,the best would be some kind of decision-exclusive content a la TW2,if we are not to dismiss the DR as inconsequential,rendering the Ultimate Sacrifice completely meaningless.That would be a bummer.
So,here I stand,with no idea how this could be resolved,really.

You might miss out in respect of what's going on but you don't get an alternate cast. No doubt it's to sell copies of ME/2.

This is the problem with presenting paths that are too divergent. You will never be able to live upto it and this is probably partly responsible for ME3's "ending".
OGB should have been canon, either through the Warden , or through Morrigan seducing Alistair (in fact that's one way you could get it into a story without the Warden having done the deed). It's really far too interesting to leave as a variable. Although it does have a bit of a Bhaalspawn sort of vibe to it.

sjpelkessjpeler wrote...
Off topic: Dragon Quest games are great, loved 'journey of the cursed king' .

Still my favourite one. Especally if you get the true ending.

Modifié par BobSmith101, 31 mai 2012 - 01:40 .

[AkiKishi]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

I think I rather go for Brockololy's idea that choice A leads to exclusive path A and choice B leads to exclusive path B in a self-contained manner.BTW: I really like Allan Schumacher's involvement in this thread.

Sounds very much like the end of Witcher2 act 1. It's almost like two different games.

Bioware seem to have something against it though if the comments on the ME3 boards are anything to go by. Which is why ME3 plays out the same but with an alternate cast regardless.

[Reznore57]

What I think is the DA team must find a balance , it's important to give the illusion to the player that is shaping a bit of his/her history as a pc.I mean sure no one can control everything , one day you might slip on a banana skin and broke your neck ...But it shouldn't feel like the pc is spending his whole life looking up at the sky and tripping over everything on the way.

For me the Old God baby was a mistake , it seemed like a short signed moves , maybe i'm wrong and the writer will come up with something brillant that makes everybody happy .And I hope so .
But it just proves that the illusion of choice is nice if you can keep on the illusion ...
Same with Leliana "death" , there is supposed to be an explanation , but for now we haven't heard what it is , so it just seems like the writer "resurect her" just because it was conveniant for them .
Since a lot of people haven't killed her it's no big deal i guess...

I don't know I'm sure the DA team hasn't already write the future game , they may have an idea of what's going to happen on a bigger scale but nothing set in stone.And beside i'm sure a lot of thing got cut or change along the way.
But i guess agency and organisation is key to know what toys you can give the player so he can play as he/she wants in a corner , and what is set in stone for the story to be told in a good way.

That's why i don't understand the OGB thing , it's too big to be given to the player to toy with it as he/she wants.
People that went thru the ritual and the whole love Morrigan thing have high expectation , because they were in touch with a godly thing.And it messes with their personal pc life...

Everything that are supposed to touch the divine or death /resurection thing has to had a strong back up , otherwise it comes out as cheap.

[Wulfram]

The Old God Baby wasn't a mistake, because it worked well for DA:O. And that should be the priority - to make the game you're working on now as good as possible.

I'm of the opinion that one of the big problems for DA2 was that they were too afraid of having an OGB situation, and thus heavily restricted the chance for the player to have a real effect in the world.

Personally, I've come to believe that if they're not going to have a consistent protagonist they should stop with the whole "import" thing. That way they would no longer have to effectively railroad the player to one ending, or spend a bunch of resources catering to people's choices in a half-hearted and unsatisfactory way.

I'd rather have my Queen Anora ruled non-OGB Fereldan left to my imagination, than have the games use a whole bunch of resources when they'll ultimately have to turn out just the same as a Fereldan ruled by Alistair and Queen Cousland with an OGB anyway.

[Reznore57]

What I would do for this problem , simply pull that stupid godly soul out of this poor kid ,let the warden have a normal child and enjoy the consequence of lovemaking with a shady witch.
Just tell Morrigan needed a soul , not a being , find a way to make believe the baby was only a conveniant vessel and nothing more.(Find a trick to not kill the kid while the "exorcist" took place)
Than put the soul into someone else (people, dragon ,a plant...) or destroy it whatever .Just get that creepy kid uncreepy and out of any plot .And for those who haven't had the kid , skip the exorcism part , make something up to say Morrigan found a old god soul and deal with the consequences..

If the god soul is relevant to the plot , well the writer have to come up with something that put everybody on the same page at one point.
And keep in my mind that as long some player think that they have a godly baby somewhere , they just won't let it go.

Modifié par Reznore57, 31 mai 2012 - 02:32 .

[AkiKishi]

Begemotka wrote...
You don`t get the ME A-list cast because then what importance would your previous decisions regarding your squadmates have?
Yes,please,I should get a different cast,depending on my previous choices within the confines of a videogame trilogy.
That does,however,illustrate very well why I should not go about comparing movies to interactive videogames with choices and divergent paths   

The DA franchise already started down the not entirely self-contained path,with certain decisions that profoundly affect the gameworld.Even if future titles within the franchise will be self-contained with no over-arching elements,that still does not resolve the baggage DAO and DA2 left us with,and right now,that is the most pressing issue.

As mentioned before,I would also go for The Witcher 2-style exclusive content.    edit : 

If you had never played the game before you would never have made any. In effect you are being punished for not buying the previous games not for anything relating to the squadmates.

I prefer the Witcher2 style as well. But Bioware have the final say since they make the game if they don't like it, then it's not likely to happen.

Modifié par BobSmith101, 31 mai 2012 - 03:19 .

[AkiKishi]

Begemotka wrote...

But how would you circumvent the necessity of playing the first 2 installments of a trilogy,wherein those decisions had to be made because the game was so designed?
And main decisions are catered for,via the pre-chargen questionnaire (at least in ME2) but side-quest related candy and such being available only for those who played the first two is something I cannot find fault with,tbh.
I know for sure how it worked for a new character in ME2,because I tried an entirely new Shepard there,just for kicks.
I don`t know how much you miss out on if you start with a new character in ME3,I admit. 

Same way they did the the PS3 version, comic introduction. In ME3 they basically give you the worst possible outcome probably so you will go out and buy the games.

Speaking of comics that's a better way to link the games than save states. First it does not punish anyone new to the series,second you don't need to play the previous game over and over just to set new flags.Third even if you change system it makes no difference.

Modifié par BobSmith101, 31 mai 2012 - 03:38 .