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[Oni Changas]

Raiden had the best prologue imo. Humanized him and made him a regular guy. They made his character fit its background unlike MGS2 Raiden who was somehow happy-go-lucky yet confused and naiive pstd sufferer.

[Ctserber]

BladyMZ wrote...
Sigint became Darpa Chief? Ocelot was "good" all along, yet tried to kill me all the time? Cute Paramedic was Dr. Clark (Naomi's mother), and created the abysmal Les Infant Terribles (or smth) project? Raiden was working for Campbell - when?! operation Big Shell was monitored by VI of the Colonel (since the very beginning of the game it is VI talking about Solid Snake being traitor).

Ocelot wasn't good, he just happened to have the same goal, which is the destruction of the Patriots. Snake's goal was to kill Ocelot, and stop him from destroying the A.Is. Ocelot had no idea that the worm Snake uploaded would destroy the Patriot's for him. Ocelot was never on Snake's side. He was never trying to help Snake. Ocelot was trying to destroy the AIs which would thrust the world into chaos, and Snake was trying to stop him.

MGS4 ending told us, that Big Boss wasn't burned on Volta river, it was Solidus - so why EVA jumped into flames? Why Solid didn't pull the trigger, it is so out of character for him. Major Zero, the truly "paragon" character in MGS3 was made into monster, what changed when BB killed him, how Zero can become "one" when he was like 120 years old and was no threat at all.

 Because she's wounded, weak, dizzy, and outright hallucinating is explanation one. Explanation two is to deliberatly fool the patriots and mask Big Boss's survival, which was the point in using Solidus's body in the first place. Explanation 3 is very simple: She stood up, she got caught in the fire and explosion. She wasn't comitting suicide or deliberatly flinging herself into the flames. She was wounded, not thinking clearly, and just stood up when she shouldn't have.  What do you mean 'why Solid didn't pull the trigger?' What, on Big Boss? How about pure freakin' shock and confusion? 

Why Sigint, Clark, and Zero all became monsters, that's the entire point. They were such extremely good, human characters in MGS3 and then became corrupt and vile. It's a tragedy, and deliberate. That's not a plothole or a flaw. And Big Boss's entire speech was metaphorical, not literal. He's saying that the entire debacle with the Patriots has to end, that it all needs to be wiped away so that the next generation doesn't have to suffer for it. That's the entire theme of the series. Big Boss isn't literally saying that if I don't kill Zero the Patriots will pop back up, he's explaining the need to completely erase his mistake.

So no, MGS 4 ending was not "perfect", it was farfatched beyond belief, most of the plot was written "on the fly", Kojima was adding and tying up "loose ends" that never needed explaining. It was really bad, overlong, had no impact, and Snake not killing himself was the last straw, MGS is nothing to me as a series now. Actually, Kojima wanted Snake to pull the trigger, but his co-workers "Held the Line", so he changed the ending into what it is now - a pile of gibberish nonsense. Thank you.

It explained everything, provided closure on almost every single character and loose end, what more could you ask for? It was a perfect ending to a full blown tragedy, and despite a few questionable concepts (Such as Vamp,) had absolutely no real or major plotholes, which is astonishing considering the convuluted complexity of the series.

 I hate to say it and be a pretenious wanker but saying the MGS4 ending was horrible is in all probablity because you (god forgive me for saying this,) "didn't get it," as demonstrated by the fact that you actually thought Ocelot was "good" and on Snake's side, which he never was.

Modifié par Ctserber, 28 mai 2012 - 12:20 .

[Seifer006]

sUiCiDeKiNgS13 wrote...

Holy hell, now thats how you end a series.
1) Damn near 30 minute long ending sequence to wrap things up {EDIT} Over an hour long cutscene
2) Each character gets their own finale
3) Final boss battle that was possibly the greatest  boss battle I've ever participated in

I love ME3, but damn, MGS4 really figured out how to end a characters story.,

first off Congrats man. I really want to play MGS4 but I don't have PS3 nor do I feel like paying all that $$$ for a console and one game.

secondly - I did hear about the end and considering I've been an MGS fan since the PS1 days ahh yes, Liquid, Gray Fox and SNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAKE!!!

you bet they ended it well. plus that fight scene - that should have been what ME3 was about:

Harbinger vs the entire galaxy Shepard recruited............but it didn't happen

[Oni Changas]

I was hoping Shep vs Leng would have played out like Liquid vs Solid.

But Deception Leng was put in and Retribution Leng had to sit on the sidelines.

Modifié par OniTYME, 28 mai 2012 - 12:36 .

[Shaani]

Confused-Shepard wrote...

Please, don't even compare.
MGS is like The Godfather while Mass Effect has been reduced to Micheal Bay's Transformers

Oh, don't even go there.  I hate the sequels to the original MGS far more than all of you hate the ending of ME3 combined.

If ME3 is Transformers, than MGS4 is a conspiracy theory webpage, hosted on Tripod, in the form of one long, rambling page filled with incoherent, stream-of-conscious, bolded, underlined, all-caps ranting about the Freemasons and 9/11 that was clearly written by a crazy person and then translated into English by Babelfish.

For every genuinely interesting moment, there is ten hours of the characters babbling uselessly back and forth in mangled Engrish about plots that would have been laughed off the X-Files.

[Shaani]

Flaming Snake wrote...

Pick which one you'd prefer.

The one that doesn't sound like a paranoid schitzophrenic's manefesto.

[Ctserber]

More importantly, MGS4 had an ending that fit the theme of the series, tied up every important plot detail, provided incredible closure on the characters, and wrapped everything up. It wasn't just an ending to the game, but to the entire series.

ME3 on the other hand.... ME3 couldn't properly end the game, let alone the trilogy.

[Seifer006]

Shaani wrote...

Confused-Shepard wrote...

Please, don't even compare.
MGS is like The Godfather while Mass Effect has been reduced to Micheal Bay's Transformers

Oh, don't even go there.  I hate the sequels to the original MGS far more than all of you hate the ending of ME3 combined.

If ME3 is Transformers, than MGS4 is a conspiracy theory webpage, hosted on Tripod, in the form of one long, rambling page filled with incoherent, stream-of-conscious, bolded, underlined, all-caps ranting about the Freemasons and 9/11 that was clearly written by a crazy person and then translated into English by Babelfish.

For every genuinely interesting moment, there is ten hours of the characters babbling uselessly back and forth in mangled Engrish about plots that would have been laughed off the X-Files.

I hear you on MGS2, 3. I found them confusing. Not sure what Kojima was thinking...it felt so.......unrealistic.
at least the ME series, (1,2) at least felt realistic. and made more sense.......MGS2 liquid (who was my fav villian) was turned into "an arm"...???????!!! WTF

[Shaani]

Dominus Solanum wrote...

Wait, you thought MGS4 was a long, rambling, incoherent narrative but still loved MGS1?

It was a lot more impressive in the 90s!  You kinda had to be there.

Modifié par Shaani, 28 mai 2012 - 02:02 .

[Ctserber]

... Is it really possible that I'm the only guy who genuinely enjoyed and loved both MGS2 and Raiden? (Well, end game Raiden, not game-start Raiden. That was just "Who is this **** and what did you do with my badass Snake?)

[xMellowhype]

While MGS as a whole is confusing to follow they still made it enjoyable where Starbrat was just ugh.

[Shaani]

xMellowhype wrote...

While MGS as a whole is confusing to follow they still made it enjoyable where Starbrat was just ugh.

The Starchild was like five minutes.  Imagine if he started talking, and didn't stop for two hours, not once making a lick of sense.

[Seifer006]

Shaani wrote...

Dominus Solanum wrote...

Wait, you thought MGS4 was a long, rambling, incoherent narrative but still loved MGS1?

It was a lot more impressive in the 90s!  You kinda had to be there.

This

and I'm not even going to try to go go any further with this, because today gamers are nothing to what I grew up with. I speak of the new Final Fantasy series compared to what SquareSOFT made FFIV,VI,VII,VIII,IX,X anything after is crap.

MGS on the PS was real gaming. It was revolutionary and IMO ME1 brought that back (that KOTOR feel) yet stayed geniune. But ME3 and MGS2,3 went in directions that I was not happy. It felt like a different company or the Developers got over there heads and thought we fans wouldn't care....

Either case - I'm done typing. Hopefully you see my point

[xMellowhype]

Shaani wrote...

xMellowhype wrote...

While MGS as a whole is confusing to follow they still made it enjoyable where Starbrat was just ugh.

The Starchild was like five minutes.  Imagine if he started talking, and didn't stop for two hours, not once making a lick of sense.

And yet MGS is vastly superior.

[Shaani]

xMellowhype wrote...

And yet MGS is vastly superior.

I enjoyed everything about ME but the ending.  The only enjoyment I got out of MGS2-4 was watching to see how far Hideo Kojima could stick his head up his own rear.

[Seifer006]

Shaani wrote...

xMellowhype wrote...

And yet MGS is vastly superior.

I enjoyed everything about ME but the ending.  The only enjoyment I got out of MGS2-4 was watching to see how far Hideo Kojima could stick his head up his own rear.

hahaha yeah my friend pretty much said the same thing on kojima. kojima pretty much showed off his arrogance thinking he's King because of the MGS franchise..........hmmm wonder if BW done the same with ME3??....

[Shaani]

"Vamp was never a vampire at all!  *dramatic cord*  It was nanomachines!  *dramatic cord*  Nanomachines that I, Naomi, created!  *dramatic cord*  I was only using Otacon!  *dramatic cord*  Now, I'm going to kill my creation!  *dramatic cord*  And I also have terminal cancer now, all of the sudden!  *dramatic cord*  So, I guess I'd better kill myself!  *dramatic cord*  Dying . . . right where Grey Fox dies . . . oh the pathos . . . .!"

That game gave me friggin' drama whiplash.

Modifié par Shaani, 28 mai 2012 - 03:41 .

[Ctserber]

Shaani wrote...

xMellowhype wrote...

While MGS as a whole is confusing to follow they still made it enjoyable where Starbrat was just ugh.

The Starchild was like five minutes.  Imagine if he started talking, and didn't stop for two hours, not once making a lick of sense.

Dude, every single bit of the MGS series makes perfect sense. It might be confusing as all hell while playing for the first time, but if you step back and examine the entire plot, it's all solid, no pun intended.

The ending to Mass Effect 3 on the other hand, makes no sense. Not in context with ME3, not in context with the rest of the series, not upon replaying, nothing. MGS makes sense. ME3's ending does not.

[FataliTensei]

Confused-Shepard wrote...

Please, don't even compare.
MGS is like The Godfather while Mass Effect has been reduced to Micheal Bay's Transformers

That is a very, very, very, very sadly accurate comparison.

[Ctserber]

jreezy wrote...

Ctserber wrote...

Shaani wrote...

xMellowhype wrote...

While MGS as a whole is confusing to follow they still made it enjoyable where Starbrat was just ugh.

The Starchild was like five minutes.  Imagine if he started talking, and didn't stop for two hours, not once making a lick of sense.

Dude, every single bit of the MGS series makes perfect sense.

Not sure if serious...

Okay, with the exception of the various supernatural elements within the series, such as the Cobra Unit, etc, (the aspects themselves are irrelevent to the plot and as Kojima said are primarily symbolic anyway,) can you name anything in the story that makes no sense? Can you name any glaring plotholes left behind after the conclusion of the series?

Really, what in the MGS series story didn't make sense?