They couldn't let you choose between your two siblings? I understand that it's because they want you to have a balanced party of warriors, mages, and rogues, but when you can recruit Merrill and Anders immediately after the prologue ends, doesn't that already make Bethany redundant even when you're playing as a non-Mage?
Besides that, I personally prefer Carver as a character since his friendship is more satisfying to earn than Bethany's. I don't see why they couldn't give you a choice rather than pin it down to which class that you chose.
So why is it that they'd only allow a Mage character to keep Carver instead of Bethany?
Débuté par
Aluvious
, mai 21 2012 08:46
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#2
Posté 21 mai 2012 - 10:11
Asdara
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Well initially it's a party balance issue I'd think. If you are a mage, you don't need another mage in the first portion of the game where your party is rather limited to Aveline, Sibling, you and then Varric eventually. Everyone else comes later. So that gives you Warrior, Rouge, Mage (you) and Warrior (Carver). If you're a Warrior or Rouge a mage is pretty handy so you get Bethany. Keeps the set up Mage War War Rouge or Mage Warrior Rouge Rouge. You don't get a mage after Bethany until Anders or Merrill, which are several quests on in, and only Anders is another healer type.
It would be nice, if you're playing on casual or something like that, if you could keep one or the other aside from those concerns, but there's also a story component to it - if you ARE a mage, you have some reason to have sympathy for the Mage side of the Mage/Templar conflict. If you are not a mage, you have your sister Bethany who is a mage to give you that same sympathy in theory. In addition, if you are a mage and have Mage sympathies because of that, you have Carver for a counterpoint to your natural sympathies.
It would be nice, if you're playing on casual or something like that, if you could keep one or the other aside from those concerns, but there's also a story component to it - if you ARE a mage, you have some reason to have sympathy for the Mage side of the Mage/Templar conflict. If you are not a mage, you have your sister Bethany who is a mage to give you that same sympathy in theory. In addition, if you are a mage and have Mage sympathies because of that, you have Carver for a counterpoint to your natural sympathies.
#3
Posté 22 mai 2012 - 12:28
Aleya
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As Asdara said, it's a way to "balance" the opinion on the Mage vs Templar conflict between Hawke and the sibling.
Also, extra money saved by not having to do 2 takes of every sibling interaction. Both Carver and Bethany's attitudes toward Hawke would be totally different if they had the same (lack of) magical abilities. Bethany for one would probably have refrained from joining the Circle, because then the Templars would've gone after mage!Hawke too. Carver might also not have had such a strong drive to prove himself useful, and there's a chance he wouldn't have joined the Templars. Way too many extra plot factors to take into account
Also, extra money saved by not having to do 2 takes of every sibling interaction. Both Carver and Bethany's attitudes toward Hawke would be totally different if they had the same (lack of) magical abilities. Bethany for one would probably have refrained from joining the Circle, because then the Templars would've gone after mage!Hawke too. Carver might also not have had such a strong drive to prove himself useful, and there's a chance he wouldn't have joined the Templars. Way too many extra plot factors to take into account
#4
Posté 22 mai 2012 - 12:49
LolaLei
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Choosing between your two siblings in-game? Man, how harsh would that have been!
... And kinda cool as well, what a horrible decision to have to make... I love it!
... And kinda cool as well, what a horrible decision to have to make... I love it!
#5
Posté 22 mai 2012 - 10:40
M-Taylor
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The story would lose impact if you played as a rogue/warrior with Carver. The entire first act would lose the already pitiful amount of drama of 'omg templars are after us'.
I did think it was kinda odd how Bethany automatically died if you was a mage though. >.>
I did think it was kinda odd how Bethany automatically died if you was a mage though. >.>
#6
Posté 22 mai 2012 - 11:34
ReallyRue
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I've never really understood the whole 'balancing the story' thing. One of my rogues had Bethany die in the Deep Roads, so after that, she had no more connection to the mage/templar issue than if Bethany had died in the prologue.
Personally, I would have loved to have both siblings together, but I realise that might have taken away from the uniqueness of Hawke/Bethany and Hawke/Carver's relationships.
Personally, I would have loved to have both siblings together, but I realise that might have taken away from the uniqueness of Hawke/Bethany and Hawke/Carver's relationships.
#7
Posté 22 mai 2012 - 11:40
AngryFrozenWater
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I think it was more economical to have only one of the two. Tension between Bethany and Carver could expand on the mage/templar conflict, but would obviously mean dialogue and cinematics to reflect that and given the short development time that would be out of the question.M-Taylor wrote...
The story would lose impact if you played as a rogue/warrior with Carver. The entire first act would lose the already pitiful amount of drama of 'omg templars are after us'.
I did think it was kinda odd how Bethany automatically died if you was a mage though. >.>
Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 22 mai 2012 - 11:41 .
#8
Posté 22 mai 2012 - 02:44
SiIencE
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I still hate that when you choose 'over my dead body' when they pickup Bethany she actually stops you... I feel my choices don't matter at all in DA2, they all end the same. In DAO this was different, you could make choices that mattered!
#9
Posté 22 mai 2012 - 02:56
berelinde
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If I had my way, I would take Carver every single time with every single Hawke. I love the eternal rivalry between M!Hawke and Carver, especially. Fortunately, I don't mind playing mages.
I'm not sure that the story would lose drama if the mage sister was gone. The family still needs to survive, and Mama Hawke still wants to reclaim her ancestral home. The only way those things are going to happen is if they go to the Deep Roads. Honestly, despite the one line sarcastic Hawke can say ("They're my templars"), there is no evidence that the templars even know that there are any mages at all in the Hawke family.
I'm not sure that the story would lose drama if the mage sister was gone. The family still needs to survive, and Mama Hawke still wants to reclaim her ancestral home. The only way those things are going to happen is if they go to the Deep Roads. Honestly, despite the one line sarcastic Hawke can say ("They're my templars"), there is no evidence that the templars even know that there are any mages at all in the Hawke family.
#10
Posté 22 mai 2012 - 03:11
fchopin
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Because if you play as a mage when they take your sister they will also have to take you and the game finishes.
#11
Posté 22 mai 2012 - 03:37
Reidbynature
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fchopin wrote...
Because if you play as a mage when they take your sister they will also have to take you and the game finishes.
She only gets taken if you leave her at home while you're off in the Deep Roads. Like Hawke she had managed to evade imprisonment until then and mage Hawke still manages to evade imprisonment afterwards so it doesn't really matter.
#12
Posté 22 mai 2012 - 04:18
fchopin
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Reidbynature wrote...
She only gets taken if you leave her at home
Yes i know, and the game ends.
#13
Posté 22 mai 2012 - 05:49
Asdara
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Well there are two issues of balance - the story balance tends to be the one that's debatable, because you lose the surviving sibling at the end of Act 1 (sometimes partially, sometimes permanently), but the party talent pool balance issue is also a reason to get rid of the mage sibling if you play melee and the melee sibling if you play mage, at least on the harder difficulties. Honestly, on casual it doesn't really factor - which is what I personally play the most now that I'm in replays totally and just switching story elements and romances and stuff on quickie play throughs, but in the harder difficulties the party balance is a lot more critical.
#14
Posté 22 mai 2012 - 06:03
Karlone123
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It's a way of keeping combat classes balanced, I would have liked to pursue a story with Carver as a warrior or rogue sometimes.
#15
Posté 22 mai 2012 - 08:34
brushyourteeth
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It's a way of punishing mage players by forcing them to put up with Carver.
Maker, magic is so unfair...
Maker, magic is so unfair...
#16
Posté 22 mai 2012 - 08:49
LolaLei
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brushyourteeth wrote...
It's a way of punishing mage players by forcing them to put up with Carver.
Maker, magic is so unfair...
Yeah, but sometimes he turns out quite hot depending on how you build your character... which is something at least.
#17
Posté 22 mai 2012 - 09:31
ReallyRue
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LolaLei wrote...
brushyourteeth wrote...
It's a way of punishing mage players by forcing them to put up with Carver.
Maker, magic is so unfair...
Yeah, but sometimes he turns out quite hot depending on how you build your character... which is something at least.
Haha, this is very true! Honestly, it's a real mixed bag with the presets for Carver and Beth, sometimes they turn out lovely, and sometimes...
I love them both though. Carver a little more.
#18
Posté 23 mai 2012 - 01:59
LolaLei
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I always make my male Hawke's skin colour the same as Isabela's or darker, he always turns out looking hot, but poor old Carver always ends up looking ridiculous with a funny hair cut. But if I make a white female Hawke then he has the hot pre-set face with the long hair... Strange how it works really.
#19
Posté 23 mai 2012 - 04:16
brushyourteeth
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Dragon Age problems.... I can make Carver hot, but then again how hot does your brother need to be? And he naturally becomes un-hot after all the jealous whining. I've never intentionally made a hot Carver, but then I run into the problem of incestuously checking him out for a few hours.
.... maybe I'll make him hot next time. Just for Peaches' sake.
.... maybe I'll make him hot next time. Just for Peaches' sake.
#20
Posté 23 mai 2012 - 06:33
Riverdaleswhiteflash
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brushyourteeth wrote...
Dragon Age problems.... I can make Carver hot, but then again how hot does your brother need to be? And he naturally becomes un-hot after all the jealous whining. I've never intentionally made a hot Carver, but then I run into the problem of incestuously checking him out for a few hours.
Well, he's Hawke's brother, not yours, so technically you can check him out all you want.
#21
Posté 23 mai 2012 - 01:03
robertthebard
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He's secretly related not to Hawke, but Alistair and Anders. Damn magic...brushyourteeth wrote...
Dragon Age problems.... I can make Carver hot, but then again how hot does your brother need to be? And he naturally becomes un-hot after all the jealous whining. I've never intentionally made a hot Carver, but then I run into the problem of incestuously checking him out for a few hours.
.... maybe I'll make him hot next time. Just for Peaches' sake.
#22
Posté 23 mai 2012 - 09:01
ReallyRue
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LolaLei wrote...
I always make my male Hawke's skin colour the same as Isabela's or darker, he always turns out looking hot, but poor old Carver always ends up looking ridiculous with a funny hair cut. But if I make a white female Hawke then he has the hot pre-set face with the long hair... Strange how it works really.
I know right. Whenever I make a Hawke with darker skin, Bethany looks really cute with a short hairstyle, but Carver has this horrible dreadlocks thing. When it's a pale Hawke, I think Carver looks great, and has a hairstyle a bit like Nathaniel, but Bethany looks sort of childish. And then when Hawke is sort of East Asian looking, both Carver and Beth look good. And then there's an odd occasion where I get a completely random look for them both. Heh, you'd think they'd retain more similarities in their different presets.
#23
Posté 23 mai 2012 - 10:22
Aluvious
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brushyourteeth wrote...
It's a way of punishing mage players by forcing them to put up with Carver.
Maker, magic is so unfair...
I guess they intended him to be at odds with you as opposed to Bethany favoring you. It made it a lot nicer to see him warm up to you as the story went on, in my opinion.
#24
Posté 23 mai 2012 - 11:00
LolaLei
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Aluvious wrote...
brushyourteeth wrote...
It's a way of punishing mage players by forcing them to put up with Carver.
Maker, magic is so unfair...
I guess they intended him to be at odds with you as opposed to Bethany favoring you. It made it a lot nicer to see him warm up to you as the story went on, in my opinion.
Did you ever manage to get him to like you? I tried my arse off to friend him but he was having none of it LOL.
#25
Posté 25 mai 2012 - 03:11
snackrat
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It's not just so you have one Mage and one Mundane (be it warrior, or rogue) - though that does play a part - it is also because a large part of the sibling's character is whether they are the only Mage/Mundane.
Carver wants to make a name for himself, but cannot, because it would draw attention to his mage family. He also feels he's 'not good enough' because he is the only Mundane of the siblings. He can take this out on a Mage Hawke, blaming them for a lot of his problems, born of jealousy and resentment.
If Hawke is also Mundane, Carver just becomes wangsty and bitter, with no real direction. Also, after Bethany's loss, there is NO mage in the family AT ALL, so there is no reason for them to have to hide in Lowtown, or get money/power/influence to keep templars away. Since trying to 'become somebody' to make it harder for the templars to touch them is a large driving point of the STORY, and 'I can't be somebody' is a large driving point of Carver's CHARACTER, as much as I like Carver more than Bethany and wish I could have him instead, it just wouldn't work.
Bethany feels guilty that, even after Malcolm's loss, her family still has to run because she is a Mage. If Hawke is a Mage too, they share that burden, and a lot of what makes Bethany "I just want to be normal" loses its effect.
If Hawke is also Mage, the effect isn't as great as a Mundane Hawke with Carver - but it is notable. A lot of Bethany's dialogue wouldn't make sense and a large part of her character (what there is...) is negated by the fact she's not doing this alone. Remove her mage concerns and she just become Hawke's Yes-Man, agreeing with most everything Hawke says or does.
Carver wants to make a name for himself, but cannot, because it would draw attention to his mage family. He also feels he's 'not good enough' because he is the only Mundane of the siblings. He can take this out on a Mage Hawke, blaming them for a lot of his problems, born of jealousy and resentment.
If Hawke is also Mundane, Carver just becomes wangsty and bitter, with no real direction. Also, after Bethany's loss, there is NO mage in the family AT ALL, so there is no reason for them to have to hide in Lowtown, or get money/power/influence to keep templars away. Since trying to 'become somebody' to make it harder for the templars to touch them is a large driving point of the STORY, and 'I can't be somebody' is a large driving point of Carver's CHARACTER, as much as I like Carver more than Bethany and wish I could have him instead, it just wouldn't work.
Bethany feels guilty that, even after Malcolm's loss, her family still has to run because she is a Mage. If Hawke is a Mage too, they share that burden, and a lot of what makes Bethany "I just want to be normal" loses its effect.
If Hawke is also Mage, the effect isn't as great as a Mundane Hawke with Carver - but it is notable. A lot of Bethany's dialogue wouldn't make sense and a large part of her character (what there is...) is negated by the fact she's not doing this alone. Remove her mage concerns and she just become Hawke's Yes-Man, agreeing with most everything Hawke says or does.
