149 réponses à ce sujet

[Sajji]

Lasien wrote...

I know this will probably ****** some people off, but I just watched the opening cinematic from dark souls, and I really don't see much difference in the tones of the games. The only real difference I see between DA and DS is that the graphics are much better in DS. The worlds that the games occur in are equally dark.

I would like to say that DA:O and DA2 were both on par storywise - what I mean to say is that the story being presented was good in both games. However, it wasn't presented as well in DA2. Also, I liked the art style of DA2, but it would have been loads better if they had done what they claimed and based off of rembrant's painting style (or at least I think it was rembrant). When I read the article that this attempt was mentioned in, I was excited, but i the actual game, it seemed like they forgot the shadows to go along with the "light-saturated" world.

I'm glad you checked out the cinematic. Remember, the enemies you saw...especially the knights of Gwyn...they aren't darkspawn you mow down. They will kill you and kill you and kill you relentlessly. They aren't a pushover...you need to focus and battle and fight with all your guts to beat only one.

You should give the game a shot and see what you think. It's not hack and slash...you must block, time strikes, learn from mistakes, study enemy patterns and level smartly. It's a dungeon crawler RPG with a minimal plot but there is a lot of interesting lore to find if you pay attention.

[lyleoffmyspace]

Realmzmaster wrote...

I find it interesting that gamers want to pick and choose their realism. As far as the Witcher is concerned (and yes I have played both games) it simply picks and chooses it realism like every other cRPG. Where are the people dying in the streets (which happened in real medieval life)? Weapons that break? Weather has no real effect in the game. No one in the Witcher changes clothes because of the weather. You see people run from the rain but that is it.

The Witcher can walk through a downpour and will be as dry as if it were a sunny day. No concern for food and water. It is simply assumed even when crossing a vast distance that in both DAO and the Witcher that you never run out of food. At least in DA2 there was a reason since everything occurred around Kirkwall.

Other cRPGs (like the Alternate Reality series) actually took weather, food and water into consideration. You could die from starvation or thirst, even before then your attributes and ability to fight would be affected.
If your party did not have the proper attire for the weather the party got cold or hot could die of heat stroke or freeze to death.

If you got a disease or poisoned you had to go to a healer. Disease and poison could render the party member unconscious and the party member could die. Death was permanent.

If you want a darker more serious atmosphere make death permanent. If a gamer chooses to reload that is their choice. If the main character dies then it is game over you have to reload. If a party member dies you have a choice to reload or continue without the member.

I want to see weapons that break and spells that can miscast.Get rid of attacks like arrow of slaying or whirlwind. Any arrow that pierces heart, head or a vital organ can be an arrow of slaying.

The question is how much realism do you want and how dark/serious do you want to make the atmosphere?

Realism and immersion =/= darkness and seriousness.

You're going on about realism. Either way, all the travelling in the game is done off screen in various boats - you can assume the boats have a food supply. Geralt has finely crafted magical silver and steel swords which would not simply degrade and break over the short timeframe of the game.

Have you actually played The Witcher? In TW1 the game takes place around the city of Vizima, and all travelling is done off screen. You also can meditate and eat if you want that. TW2 takes place over the course of a few days or so at a few key locations where there is no travel time.

Darkness is the mood and content of the game, not the effect of weather and stuff. If you want to play a game and do all the boring things that happen in every day like like eating and going to the toilet...well fine, but you can do that in a happy game and a dark game.

Dark =/= realistic.

[Terraforming2154]

I definitely wouldn't mind Dark Souls' dark, almost melancholic, atmosphere for Dragon Age. Honestly, I think it would be a benefit to the some of the narrative that DA presents. For example, I definitely think that the Fade, the Deep Roads, and even settings like the Kokari Wilds would benefit from a darker style. I really feel they need to get away from the DA2 design too - and fast. The Deep Roads were really sterile in DA2 which didn't really match how the game talks about that location in general. I also felt a little disappointed with the Vinmark Mountains - the game sort of builds the location up as having the restless energy of demons/spirits, but the atmosphere never quite matched that idea for me (while I thought the coloring was pretty good, the actual style was lacking).

Also, if the next game is set in Orlais, I hope that they can make the city locations look bright and vibrant without being sterile. I sort of hate dragging in Witcher 2 as comparison - but I do think that game did a good job pulling this off. I hope they are able to balance the possible vibrancy of the city with the more gritty or unsettling locations as well.

Modifié par Terraforming2154, 01 juin 2012 - 06:17 .

[Ryzaki]

I actually feel DA2 is plenty dark. It just doesn't express this well.

Kelder for instance. He's a completely disgusting worm but his victim is shown to be too clean. I had the same issue with Shianni but her voice acting at least sells it. (That and it's confirmed for the player later). She doesn't look like he's been torturing her.

Darktown doesn't look at all like it should. Too bright for one and it should have a creepy your throat might be slit any moment atmosphere. It's things like that.

[Realmzmaster]

lyleoffmyspace wrote...


Realism and immersion =/= darkness and seriousness.

You're going on about realism. Either way, all the travelling in the game is done off screen in various boats - you can assume the boats have a food supply. Geralt has finely crafted magical silver and steel swords which would not simply degrade and break over the short timeframe of the game.

Have you actually played The Witcher? In TW1 the game takes place around the city of Vizima, and all travelling is done off screen. You also can meditate and eat if you want that. TW2 takes place over the course of a few days or so at a few key locations where there is no travel time.

Darkness is the mood and content of the game, not the effect of weather and stuff. If you want to play a game and do all the boring things that happen in every day like like eating and going to the toilet...well fine, but you can do that in a happy game and a dark game.

Dark =/= realistic.

All the traveling in Witcher 1 does not occur off screen. You travel by boat which happens in a cutscene from one location to another. It is not off screen. The witcher is also teleported to Vyzima Lake and that is not off screen. Yes I have played the game. Also many in this thread were talking about the realism of a medieval setting with part of the mood being conveyed by the themes of the time which include murder, violence, rape, racism etc.
I simply stated how real do you want your fantasy? if you are going to include these themes then there are other themes to consider. I also discussed permanent death and the death of companions. 

As far as the Witcher's weapons not breaking that is pure fantasy. Previous crpgs realized that enchanted weapons could break especially if hit by a weapon with a stronger enchantment or could shatter on a shield with a stronger base strength and enchantment.

Whether the game chooses to address that or not is left up to the developer. NWN, BG1, Wizardry (to name a few) had no problems introducing breaking weapons and shields or spells that fizzle (which IMHO added to the mood and atmospehre)  while including a blacksmith skill.

So yes sometimes realism can equal darkness especially if someone wishes to model medieval life.

Modifié par Realmzmaster, 02 juin 2012 - 08:55 .

[TJX2045]

DEAR GOD NO.  Dragon Age was dark enough in DAO, and making it darker in DA2 was not exactly a good move in my opinion.  The game is already darker, make anything more dark than it already is and you end up with plothole-ridden, headache-inducing endings that claim to be thought-provoking and deep.

Also I'd like to point out that the people saying they need to take tips from "The Witcher" or "Dark Souls" should also remember that people will then start comparing DA to said games which are completely different from what the DA universe is as far as IP goes.

I guess the OP forgot about the possessed child, the undead/ghoul dwarves, the Ogre snapping *enter spoiler name here* in half, the consistent gore, the Broken Circle storyline, and the battle at Ostagar in DAO just to name a few.

Let's also not forget the most grotesque that I've seen in the series so far, which was the one quest where the mage butchered people and basically created a zombie in DA2.  I think that one disturbed me the most.

Modifié par TJX2045, 03 juin 2012 - 06:05 .

[Lasien]

Ukki wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Lasien wrote...
Nudity should not be a requirement to make something sexy or mature. Likewise, blood and gore shouldn't be neccessary to make something violent or dark. Those scenes were really just badly done.

In an 18 rated game why not?

Why would a game have 18 rated violence like over the top blood spatter, and PG13 sex ? 

Must be american thing. Violence, Gore, blood, severel limbs, murder, necromancy: cool/ok. Nudity= Oh Noes! I can see his/hers ...! OMG!

No, I said neither excessive gore or excessive nudity should be required. I feel that they should be used for effect, not "cause it's a 18 rated game and I wants some ti***es and beheadings, hur hur hur!"

But then again, I grew up watching old movies, so I guess I got used to creative alternatives to showing everything that happened on-screen - be that sex or murder.  

So please don't use "an *insert nationality here* thing" as a way to write off everything someone said.

Modifié par Lasien, 03 juin 2012 - 07:45 .

[Lasien]

Ryzaki wrote...

I actually feel DA2 is plenty dark. It just doesn't express this well.

Kelder for instance. He's a completely disgusting worm but his victim is shown to be too clean. I had the same issue with Shianni but her voice acting at least sells it. (That and it's confirmed for the player later). She doesn't look like he's been torturing her.

Darktown doesn't look at all like it should. Too bright for one and it should have a creepy your throat might be slit any moment atmosphere. It's things like that.

This! It's not really the tone of the world or the art style, to be honest. It's more the touches that should have been there and weren't.

[deatharmonic]

BadJustice wrote...

I liked the tone for DA:O, DA2 didn't feel dark fantasy for me, just fantasy.

+1

[Sajji]

Has anybody here at all played Dark Souls and, therefore, understand its atmosphere?

[Mr Arg]

Dragon Age can be very dark. Its current standing feels good and unique - everything fits with each other. If I wanted to see Dark Souls or The Witcher, I would play those games, not Dragon Age.

[Mr Arg]

Sajji wrote...

Has anybody here at all played Dark Souls and, therefore, understand its atmosphere?

Yep. It's very unique and I like it, but I don't want that for Dragon Age. There are too many actual living and moving characters in dragon age for that sort of lone, isolated feel.

[MerchantGOL]

Mr Arg wrote...

Sajji wrote...

Has anybody here at all played Dark Souls and, therefore, understand its atmosphere?

Yep. It's very unique and I like it, but I don't want that for Dragon Age. There are too many actual living and moving characters in dragon age for that sort of lone, isolated feel.

Exactly. DA is fine as it is. it is "Dark" but unique saying it needs to be like the witcher or darksouls is stupid.

[Ryllen Laerth Kriel]

I think DA:O had a nice dark atmosphere, though it was broken now and then by some really ill-timed comments from party members. I loved the character of Alistair but I would of left half of his quips on the cutting room floor if I could of, they were just so badly placed, however funny.

DA 2 felt like a campy Disney production of Oliver Twist even by DA:O standards. Even in the opening scenes it's hard to feel sorry for Aveline's husband, having just met him and then she stabs through his solid steel breastplate with a dagger. It was just shoddy. I don't think I'm anywhere near a cold, emotionless husk yet but the drama felt stilted and kind of comical in most places in DA 2 to me. It's not that the story was bad, but it just wasn't very well crafted well and I'm sure time constraints were much to blame.

[Chromie]

Sajji wrote...

Taking cues from the atmosphere of Dark Souls would do this IP wonders

Dark Souls?

Yea it's serious I don't know about dark I've only ever played severa hours but I'd love to see some Witcher influences.

[Wrathion]

I think Origins did it well enough. Mostly with the Origins...and maybe Ostagar and it's aftermath. But only if you read the codex and talk to NPC's and companions. Almost cried when I talked to Alistair more about his relationship with Duncan. Poor bb.
In DA2 everyone was dying everywhere. but to me, everything else in DA2 was so comical (the dialogue, the huge swords, and the ability of Hawke and Fenris to swing them effortlessly, and the exploding bodies...lol) I didn't feel particulary sad when any of them died.

[TheDarkDefender]

Am I the only one who loves the comedy in DA and would really hate it if they made it more serious? If they got rid of the funny companions and the funny/sarcastic response option then I don't think I'd buy DA3, especially if it's set in Orlais, having to put up with french accents for 30+hours and not being able to take the mick out of them would be hell.

Modifié par TheDarkDefender, 07 juin 2012 - 09:41 .

[Sarcastic Tasha]

Grand Theft Auto went down the "dark and gritty" route, but personally I'd say it was more like "brown and boring" so now I play Saints Row instead. Dragon Age had some dark themes but it never got too depressing and there was plenty of humour.

[AndrahilAdrian]

 Have any of you philistines actually played the witcher? It had collectible sex cards, for crying out loud. It was "grimdark", but it was also juvenile, rather than serious or deep.

[Leiermann]

Not, dark souls is not "dark". The japanese games & the darkness are not a good couple.. Its a interesting ACTION game.

[Wulfram]

One thing I do think detracted a little from the atmosphere in DA2 was too many references, memes and 4th wall type stuff. Humour is good, but it's better if it works "in universe" if that makes sense.

[mr_luga]

Should take cues from The Witcher. They do maturity well, they dont consider mature as "This is the new ****" rock and other pointless mindless violence that randomly spawn about

[wsandista]

While I liked the Witcher and I think Bioware should seriously check it out for an example on how to do a great atmosphere darkly, I wish people could throw out other games to use as examples. I think looking into the D&D universe and examining the Underdark would be great, especially with aberrations, DA could use more diabolical creatures.

[Tommyspa]

I feel as if Dragon Age's atmosphere should fit the story the writers want to tell, not dark for the sake of dark, that is just dumb.

[wsandista]

Tommyspa wrote...

I feel as if Dragon Age's atmosphere should fit the story the writers want to tell, not dark for the sake of dark, that is just dumb.

DA was billed as Dark Fantasy, so one would expect some dark in there.