149 réponses à ce sujet

[Tommyspa]

Which there is in both games. Doesn't mean it has to be only dark. Unless, they try to tell a story that involves going into the void while listening to Antithesis of Light by Evoken, It doesn't need to be dark for the sake of dark. I would prefer it match itself not conform itself.

Modifié par Tommyspa, 10 juin 2012 - 02:53 .

[wsandista]

Tommyspa wrote...

Which there is in both games. Doesn't mean it has to be only dark. Unless, they try to tell a story that involves going into the void while listening to Antithesis of Light by Evoken, It doesn't need to be dark for the sake of dark. I would prefer it match itself not conform itself.

DAO did it better, DA2 was just too bright to be considered dark. Darktown was brighter than Redcliff in the daylight before/after the attack.

[Tommyspa]

wsandista- I would say the darkness of either game is debatable honestly. Thematically both games are depressive. Though artistically both defeat themselves. I'm on the Origins just looks ugly and bland not "dark". DA2 has a more colored/bright pallette which works to invalidate itself the darkness of either came from the plots for me, not the visual presentation.

Modifié par Tommyspa, 10 juin 2012 - 03:01 .

[wsandista]

Tommyspa wrote...

wsandista- I would say the darkness of either game is debatable honestly. Thematically both games are depressive. Though artistically both defeat themselves. I'm on the Origins just looks ugly and bland not "dark". DA2 has a more colored/bright pallette which works to invalidate itself the darkness of either came from the plots for me, not the visual presentation.

Use the texture mod on both. 
I really don't see the bland, I see less flashy, but DAO had some good enviorments with a good texture mod.
DA2 was too much like an anime, very bright and exaggerated.

Modifié par wsandista, 10 juin 2012 - 03:13 .

[Ryzaki]

Would people stop saying DA2 looks like anime. It might like "A" anime but it doesn't look like all anime. All anime doesn't look the same *grits teeth*

[Tommyspa]

wsandista- You can't really use a mod as a justification for a debate here, haha. Vanilla is the only way to compare the two.

[wsandista]

Ryzaki wrote...

Would people stop saying DA2 looks like anime. It might like "A" anime but it doesn't look like all anime. All anime doesn't look the same *grits teeth*

Most I've seen have those characteristics. Will make sure to change my post to be more accurate though.

[wsandista]

Tommyspa wrote...

wsandista- You can't really use a mod as a justification for a debate here, haha. Vanilla is the only way to compare the two.

Use it on both and look at the difference.

But if you insist on vanilla, DA looks rough and gritty, but for the most part body models are realistic. DA2 really exaggerated crtain species, look at elves and kossith, while completly retconing Darkspawn apperances. DA2 was also colorful and bright, and skin looked uniform.

[Tommyspa]

wsandista- The elves and kossith are an immense improvement over Origins for the sake of visual identity alone, whether you like those designs is irrelevant. Short humans with pointed ears and tall bronze humans with white hair and pointed ears. They were necessary for the sake of "not" being a uniform look for "all" species.

Darkspawn started their change in Awakening, not just the disciples but the base darkspawn's skin was more whitened from brown and thrown face paint on them as well. The armor was no longer that gleaming gold but a tarnished blackened golden/copper color, if we are gonna talk about dark Awakening was the darkest of all the releases so far visually. Besides it is only the hurlocks I find semi-out of place in DA2 but that has to do with armor, not features. The genlocks are awesome now, imo. I should however state that the first time I saw the trailer for DAO with the darkspawn in it, I almost didn't buy it because they looked like an army of zombies and it looked laughable.

The skin color point is silly, Origins was every bit as uniform as DA2 even though it takes place among different cultures, just as many of the mook enemies all shared the same models, even the crows during Zevran's quest, some look just like Leliana for goodness sake. DA2 has a better presentation of people with colored skin though, if less of them. For the sake of storytelling, there are more white people in Kirkwall than anyone else.

[wsandista]

Tommyspa wrote...

wsandista- The elves and kossith are an immense improvement over Origins for the sake of visual identity alone, whether you like those designs is irrelevant. Short humans with pointed ears and tall bronze humans with white hair and pointed ears. They were necessary for the sake of "not" being a uniform look for "all" species.

Darkspawn started their change in Awakening, not just the disciples but the base darkspawn's skin was more whitened from brown and thrown face paint on them as well. The armor was no longer that gleaming gold but a tarnished blackened golden/copper color, if we are gonna talk about dark Awakening was the darkest of all the releases so far visually. Besides it is only the hurlocks I find semi-out of place in DA2 but that has to do with armor, not features. The genlocks are awesome now, imo. I should however state that the first time I saw the trailer for DAO with the darkspawn in it, I almost didn't buy it because they looked like an army of zombies and it looked laughable.

The skin color point is silly, Origins was every bit as uniform as DA2 even though it takes place among different cultures, just as many of the mook enemies all shared the same models, even the crows during Zevran's quest, some look just like Leliana for goodness sake. DA2 has a better presentation of people with colored skin though, if less of them. For the sake of storytelling, there are more white people in Kirkwall than anyone else.

Missed the pointabout uniform skin color, DAO had different shades on Individuals while DA2 did not.





Do you disagree that elves and kossith didn't have exaggerated features though?

Modifié par wsandista, 10 juin 2012 - 03:44 .

[Tommyspa]

Ah, well you weren't specific. Rouge for everyone!

Edit: The exaggerated parts don't bother me. Least of all in the Kossith because I love the way the look now soo much cooler, I picture the Arishok like Sten and I feel nothing but disappointment retroactively. Elves need work though, more nose, less forehead fusion. Just more time spent on them. I do find the elves they spent time on to be quite well done. Merrill, Fenris, Jethann, Serendipity, Marethari and so on. I don't have a problem with them being skinny though, Sten calls them a lithe pointy earred people who excel at poverty.

Modifié par Tommyspa, 10 juin 2012 - 04:01 .

[wsandista]

Tommyspa wrote...

Ah, well you weren't specific. Rouge for everyone!

Damn I've been off lately.

[wsandista]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

As a person who fought fiercely for mandatory squadmate deaths in ME3, and who loved ME3's ending--I have to say, no I don't think DA needs to get any darker. Things like 1) A necromancer cutting several woman up, including Hawke's mother, and sewing pieces back together to fit his dead wife's image, and then re-animating the...corpse, 2) A master smith trapping a living being and pouring lyrium over their entire body (which causes serious injury and psychological problems from the merest touch) and then encasing them in stone, and then controlling them through a rod, and 3) a dark ritual in which a witch uses her magics to trap the soul of a god and bind it to that of a barely formed fetus are all plenty dark enough.

Now if you're talking about the environments, of course they need improvement, DA ][ was very clean and shiny. But DA doesn't need to be like anything else, it just needs to get itself worked out to its own niche.

Yes it does. DA3 should make the Witcher 2 look like bambi. Small children should be eaten alive by darkspawn.

[Tommyspa]

wsandista wrote...

Tommyspa wrote...

Ah, well you weren't specific. Rouge for everyone!

Damn I've been off lately.

Editted this post to account for your edit after I posted. XD

Modifié par Tommyspa, 10 juin 2012 - 04:00 .

[KotorEffect3]

Dark for dark's sake is overreaching but darkness should be part of the world.

[Ryzaki]

wsandista wrote...

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

As a person who fought fiercely for mandatory squadmate deaths in ME3, and who loved ME3's ending--I have to say, no I don't think DA needs to get any darker. Things like 1) A necromancer cutting several woman up, including Hawke's mother, and sewing pieces back together to fit his dead wife's image, and then re-animating the...corpse, 2) A master smith trapping a living being and pouring lyrium over their entire body (which causes serious injury and psychological problems from the merest touch) and then encasing them in stone, and then controlling them through a rod, and 3) a dark ritual in which a witch uses her magics to trap the soul of a god and bind it to that of a barely formed fetus are all plenty dark enough.

Now if you're talking about the environments, of course they need improvement, DA ][ was very clean and shiny. But DA doesn't need to be like anything else, it just needs to get itself worked out to its own niche.

Yes it does. DA3 should make the Witcher 2 look like bambi. Small children should be eaten alive by darkspawn.

No.

Broodmother made me sick enough as it was.

[wsandista]

Ryzaki wrote...

wsandista wrote...

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

As a person who fought fiercely for mandatory squadmate deaths in ME3, and who loved ME3's ending--I have to say, no I don't think DA needs to get any darker. Things like 1) A necromancer cutting several woman up, including Hawke's mother, and sewing pieces back together to fit his dead wife's image, and then re-animating the...corpse, 2) A master smith trapping a living being and pouring lyrium over their entire body (which causes serious injury and psychological problems from the merest touch) and then encasing them in stone, and then controlling them through a rod, and 3) a dark ritual in which a witch uses her magics to trap the soul of a god and bind it to that of a barely formed fetus are all plenty dark enough.

Now if you're talking about the environments, of course they need improvement, DA ][ was very clean and shiny. But DA doesn't need to be like anything else, it just needs to get itself worked out to its own niche.

Yes it does. DA3 should make the Witcher 2 look like bambi. Small children should be eaten alive by darkspawn.

No.

Broodmother made me sick enough as it was.

Broodmother LI for DA3!

[Raydiva]

Please no. I'm sick of all my favorite game series getting the 'darker' make over. DAO had the perfect balance of darkness, light and humor. Its the light and humor that make the darker scenes that much darker. For example (hopefully with min spoilers), you are just there joking around with the DAO team and you stumble on that Broodmother scene. If the whole DAO game was 'dark' that scene would not have been as...disturbing.

[Chiramu]

For a darker game Bioware should look to Diablo (the whole series). Diablo sets an extremely grim tone, and it's a fantasy setting without having elves and dwarves.

Having the main villain a million steps ahead of the main character is always a good start. Much like Ocarina of Time where Ganondorf is already halfway into his plan and you help him achieve this goal.

Also to make it darker, Bioware needs to take away the heroics from the story. There are too many heroic moments in Dragon Age and it spoils the dark side. They should write in the dark side of humanity more and have people not do the right thing, have people run away from their problems and not have you fight for every person who cries for help.

NO HEROICS. Humanity should be dark , realism is dark. If Dragon Age were to be darker the characters should be based more on real people.

[zyntifox]

wsandista wrote...

Tommyspa wrote...

wsandista- The elves and kossith are an immense improvement over Origins for the sake of visual identity alone, whether you like those designs is irrelevant. Short humans with pointed ears and tall bronze humans with white hair and pointed ears. They were necessary for the sake of "not" being a uniform look for "all" species.

Darkspawn started their change in Awakening, not just the disciples but the base darkspawn's skin was more whitened from brown and thrown face paint on them as well. The armor was no longer that gleaming gold but a tarnished blackened golden/copper color, if we are gonna talk about dark Awakening was the darkest of all the releases so far visually. Besides it is only the hurlocks I find semi-out of place in DA2 but that has to do with armor, not features. The genlocks are awesome now, imo. I should however state that the first time I saw the trailer for DAO with the darkspawn in it, I almost didn't buy it because they looked like an army of zombies and it looked laughable.

The skin color point is silly, Origins was every bit as uniform as DA2 even though it takes place among different cultures, just as many of the mook enemies all shared the same models, even the crows during Zevran's quest, some look just like Leliana for goodness sake. DA2 has a better presentation of people with colored skin though, if less of them. For the sake of storytelling, there are more white people in Kirkwall than anyone else.

Missed the pointabout uniform skin color, DAO had different shades on Individuals while DA2 did not.





Do you disagree that elves and kossith didn't have exaggerated features though?

Oh my god. I never got so far into DA2 to meet Alistair and now im kind of happy i didn't, he looks very wierd. I did meet elves however, can't say im a fan of the re-modelling of them. I kind of liked it that they did not look vastly different from humans in DA:O.

[LolaLei]

If we're talking about "dark" environments, I don't think every area should look dark/menacing/filthy/etc because it would lose it's intial impact. The "darker" environments would feel more poignant when compared to a rich decadent city or lush green forest you'd visited prior to entering the more foreboding, dark atmospheric areas.

[Realmzmaster]

Chiramu wrote...

For a darker game Bioware should look to Diablo (the whole series). Diablo sets an extremely grim tone, and it's a fantasy setting without having elves and dwarves.

Having the main villain a million steps ahead of the main character is always a good start. Much like Ocarina of Time where Ganondorf is already halfway into his plan and you help him achieve this goal.

Also to make it darker, Bioware needs to take away the heroics from the story. There are too many heroic moments in Dragon Age and it spoils the dark side. They should write in the dark side of humanity more and have people not do the right thing, have people run away from their problems and not have you fight for every person who cries for help.

NO HEROICS. Humanity should be dark , realism is dark. If Dragon Age were to be darker the characters should be based more on real people.

Why would I want my fantasy to be more like real life? I play the games to escape real life. Also heroes are ordinary people who do extraordinary actions. Heroes are not born. Heroes are made. Ordinary people rise to the occassion. Humanity and realism are both light, dark and grey. Not everyone runs away from their problems . Many meet them head on and overcome the problems. No you do not have to fight for every person who cries for help but that should be a choice left to the character. it the character chooses to help everyone why should the game not allow it? I want more choice not less.

[AndrahilAdrian]

I agree that it should be darker. Some of the light comedic moments in DA2 were really funny, but the whole Aveline/Donnic quest line felt more like an episode of Friends than a sidequest in a "dark fantasy" RPG supposedly influenced by A Song of Ice and Fire. It felt weird to be playing Aveline's wingman one minute and fighting to free the mages from oppression the next. I'm not opposed to some comic relief, but DA2 jumped the shark.

[ChaosAgentLoki]

wsandista wrote...

Tommyspa wrote...

wsandista- I would say the darkness of either game is debatable honestly. Thematically both games are depressive. Though artistically both defeat themselves. I'm on the Origins just looks ugly and bland not "dark". DA2 has a more colored/bright pallette which works to invalidate itself the darkness of either came from the plots for me, not the visual presentation.

Use the texture mod on both. 
I really don't see the bland, I see less flashy, but DAO had some good enviorments with a good texture mod.
DA2 was too much like an anime, very bright and exaggerated.

Not all anime is bright and exaggerated. Look at Ergo Proxy, Darker than Black (hehehe... that title fits so well) Blood Plus and Ghost in the Shell amongst many others. I do agree with the fact that DA2 was too bright, it did not seem to fit as well, but it was a far bigger improvement (graphically) IMO from DA:O. The environments except for Orzammar felt very bland and boring. However, character desing was superior in Origins, this is something I will definitely give it when it comes to graphics. That's just what I felt though.

And it all comes down to atmosphere. That's what can make a game feel darker without sacrificing colors. Metroid Prime did it, Mass Effect has managed it and Dark Souls thrived off of it. There's no reason that this cannot be a viable option for the DA team (it just may not be the one they take). These are just my thoughts on it though. I believe that atmosphere can make a game feel darker or lighter than it needs to be. Combine that with an excellent artstyle and level design and there's a lot that can be achieved. 

Modifié par ChaosAgentLoki, 12 juin 2012 - 04:24 .