69 réponses à ce sujet

[Vapaa]

Reikilea wrote...

My point is, that for me there was too much of Liara around. Kind of a forced friendship. Like leaning her head on the Shepard´s shoulder before the Final Push,  so much hugging during her own DLC, was there a holding hands too? and only paragon interups when she is talking (why is it that Kaidan or Mordin got renegade interups when they were talking normally - when Kaidan only mentioned he was worried about his father and Mordin was just Mordin).

Basically whole ME was a lot about her. Her mother, and then her father, Shadow Broker, she had to be on Mars - first mission you get after leaving Earth, there was a lot of cutscenes with her and all that attention she got after Thessia (what about Garrus after Palaven?, why not Shepard after Thessia?). 

Why not the others. Why not Miranda? Her story had amazing possibilities
in the third game. She should have been be in Cerberus base. To have
one of the TIM most trusted officers on your side and not use it in the
game where you are fighting Cerberus is just a lost chance.

No one else got this much attention. And you cant even refuse her presence (aka kill her off) as you can with others - its 3 times player can get rid of VS, you are even able to kill of Garrus or Tali (Tali twice) but not Liara.  You can kill Wrex, Mordin, Miranda, Legion, Jack, Thane, Samara, Kirrahe.....

But not her. She is cannon LI - Bioware favourite, Bioware approved.

So if you are not into Liara, you get Liara overdose.

I have nothing against her, I like how she grown up since the first game, but somethimes I thought she had too much attention.

All this blah blah didn't answer to my question: when did she violate Shepard's personal space ?

[Neria Rose]

Vapaä wrote...

All this blah blah didn't answer to my question: when did she violate Shepard's personal space?

Oh, let's see..

1) Picking up Shepard's corpse (which is the major one).
2) Barging into Shepard's room multiple times in ME3.
3) Inviting herself along on.. either 2 or 3 missions? I will give her Thessia.
4) Hoarding Shepard's old armor and dog tags in ME2/LotSB.
5) Forced mind-melding in ME1 (I can safely say my Shepard felt violated after that episode).

I miss anything?

And in response to the OP, given a choice, my canon LI would be and is Garrus.

[Vapaa]

Neria Rose wrote...

1) Picking up Shepard's corpse (which is the major one).

That's violating his/her pesonal space ?

Neria Rose wrote...

2) Barging into Shepard's room multiple times in ME3.

Two times actually, and that was to inform Shepard about the situation

Neria Rose wrote...

3) Inviting herself along on.. either 2 or 3 missions? I will give her Thessia.

2: Eden prime ans Thessia, and that's makes sense

Neria Rose wrote...

4) Hoarding Shepard's old armor and dog tags in ME2/LotSB.

That's not violating his/her personal space , as for the dogtags, Hackett give it to her

Neria Rose wrote...

5) Forced mind-melding in ME1 (I can safely say my Shepard felt violated after that episode).

I give you this one

[Reikilea]

Vapaä wrote...

Reikilea wrote...

My point is, that for me there was too much of Liara around. Kind of a forced friendship. Like leaning her head on the Shepard´s shoulder before the Final Push,  so much hugging during her own DLC, was there a holding hands too? and only paragon interups when she is talking (why is it that Kaidan or Mordin got renegade interups when they were talking normally - when Kaidan only mentioned he was worried about his father and Mordin was just Mordin).

Basically whole ME was a lot about her. Her mother, and then her father, Shadow Broker, she had to be on Mars - first mission you get after leaving Earth, there was a lot of cutscenes with her and all that attention she got after Thessia (what about Garrus after Palaven?, why not Shepard after Thessia?). 

Why not the others. Why not Miranda? Her story had amazing possibilities
in the third game. She should have been be in Cerberus base. To have
one of the TIM most trusted officers on your side and not use it in the
game where you are fighting Cerberus is just a lost chance.

No one else got this much attention. And you cant even refuse her presence (aka kill her off) as you can with others - its 3 times player can get rid of VS, you are even able to kill of Garrus or Tali (Tali twice) but not Liara.  You can kill Wrex, Mordin, Miranda, Legion, Jack, Thane, Samara, Kirrahe.....

But not her. She is cannon LI - Bioware favourite, Bioware approved.

So if you are not into Liara, you get Liara overdose.

I have nothing against her, I like how she grown up since the first game, but somethimes I thought she had too much attention.

All this blah blah didn't answer to my question: when did she violate Shepard's personal space ?

Right in the beginning, you must have missed it - as you read rather too fast or not read at all. I dont want her leaning on my Shepard´s shoulder. Nor holding hands. Handshake is perfectly fine (as other species somehow got to like this human custom).

[Vapaa]

Reikilea wrote...

Right in the beginning, you must have missed it - as you read rather too fast or not read at all. I dont want her leaning on my Shepard´s shoulder. Nor holding hands. Handshake is perfectly fine (as other species somehow got to like this human custom).

If you don't want her to lean on your shoulder,  refuse to mind meld

Holding hands is now breaking someone's personal space ? (and when does this happen in ME3 when she's not your romance ? I may have missed that)

[Neria Rose]

Vapaä wrote...
That's violating his/her pesonal space ?

Yes. At least for me, my body and therefore my Shepard's body are included in what I consider to be 'personal space'.

Two times actually, and that was to inform Shepard about the situation.

And the reason she had to inform Shepard in person is..? She has no reason to waltz into Shepard's cabin.

2: Eden prime ans Thessia, and that's makes sense.

It can be argued that Shepard is knowledgeable enough about the Protheans due to the Cipher to not need Liara on Eden Prime. And Liara has to be present for Palaven. You can't even have just one squadmate on that mission (believe me, I tried. I even did Eden Prime first deliberately so I'd have Javik and theoretically wouldn't have to bring Liara. Failed).

That's not violating his/her personal space , as for the dogtags, Hackett give it to her.

Sure, he gave them to her and she kept them if Shepard doesn't invite her back to the Normandy (or something, I forget exactly how you get those back). And keeping someone's property? That is a psychological/mental invasion of personal space to me. It's almost like having someone you don't like in your home. The way I view it, if I own it and I don't like you, don't touch it (with your feet, hands, etc.). Feels like a violation otherwise.

Modifié par Neria Rose, 22 mai 2012 - 11:40 .

[Reikilea]

Vapaä wrote...

Reikilea wrote...

Right in the beginning, you must have missed it - as you read rather too fast or not read at all. I dont want her leaning on my Shepard´s shoulder. Nor holding hands. Handshake is perfectly fine (as other species somehow got to like this human custom).

If you don't want her to lean on your shoulder,  refuse to mind meld

Holding hands is now breaking someone's personal space ? (and when does this happen in ME3 when she's not your romance ? I may have missed that)

And how are you supposed to know what exactly is her gift
about? And yup it happens even if you don’t romance her. I was pretty suprised by it - it seemed a little bit extreme for someone who did not romanced her, considering what others got was barely
a pat on the shoulder or meaningful look (yep holding hands -  not sure I really needed that.)

Edit : Holy ****, formatting fury.

Modifié par Reikilea, 23 mai 2012 - 12:15 .

[spirosz]

Whatever you as the individual believes your Shepard's LI is. That's what so great about role playing!

[Vapaa]

Neria Rose wrote...

And the reason she had to inform Shepard in person is..? She has no reason to waltz into Shepard's cabin.

The second time she came to infoprm you about the salarian councilior
The first time she had no reson but, I hardy count "knocking at your door" as "invasion of personal space"

Neria Rose wrote...

And Liara has to be present for Palaven. You can't even have just one squadmate on that mission (believe me, I tried. I even did Eden Prime first deliberately so I'd have Javik and theoretically wouldn't have to bring Liara. Failed).

nbsp;
That's just because the mission was written just for Garrus, Liara and James
But by that logic I can say that a handful of characters invade my personal space, taht's just the way the game is designed

Neria Rose wrote...

Sure, he gave them to her and she kept them if Shepard doesn't invite her back to the Normandy (or something, I forget exactly how you get those back). And keeping someone's property? That is a psychological/mental invasion of personal space to me. It's almost like having someone you don't like in your home. The way I view it, if I own it and I don't like you, don't touch it (with your feet, hands, etc.). Feels like a violation otherwise.

Yeah, sure...whatever

Reikilea wrote...

And how are you supposed to know what exactly is her gift
about?

I don't know....by asking "what exactly is this gift " perhaps ?

Modifié par Vapaä, 22 mai 2012 - 11:55 .

[spirosz]

Vapaä wrote...

Neria Rose wrote...

1) Picking up Shepard's corpse (which is the major one).

That's violating his/her pesonal space ?

Yes, depending on the person's individual personal space.  Maybe not for you, but as for others, very much so.  

[Neria Rose]

Vapaä wrote...

The second time she came to infoprm you about the salarian councilior
The first time she had no reson but, I hardy count "knocking at your door" as "invasion of personal space"

And I count being unable to refuse her as her being in my Shepard's personal space. Unless I am remembering incorrectly and you can send her away without her entering the room?

That's just because the mission was written just for Garrus, Liara and James
But by that logic I can say that a handful of characters invade my personal space, taht's just the way the game is designed

How does anyone else being forced change Liara being forced?

Yeah, sure...whatever

You asked.

[Ashwraith]

The Illusive Man.
...I suspect that answer will surprise absolutely no one who knows me. >.>

Seriously, though, there is no 'canon' romance, no matter how hard Bioware tries to push the blue lady with the head prosthetic on us.

[Vapaa]

Neria Rose wrote...

And I count being unable to refuse her as her being in my Shepard's personal space. Unless I am remembering incorrectly and you can send her away without her entering the room?

She knock at the door, say three lines while being outside of your cabin and then she leaves when Traynor shows up

Neria Rose wrote...

How does anyone else being forced change Liara being forced?

Well that's a design issue, but Liara doesn't forces herself; she doesn't ask you to bring her, it's the game, not the character

Neria Rose wrote...

You asked.

Yup I asked, and I wish I didn't

[Tiberis]

Vapaä wrote...

Well that's a design issue, but Liara doesn't forces herself; she doesn't ask you to bring her, it's the game, not the character

That's the point, the game created by the devs pushes Liara into you whether you like it or not. She wasn't necessary for Eden Prime, but the flaw in that mission is that it's available right after Mars meaning you only have James and Liara. For Thessia she was emotionally compromised, Shepard should have had the ability to tell her to back off. If you want to hear her dialogue on Thessia that should have been your choice, not the game. The ending specifically shows her whether you romance her or not; why? Why couldn't my Shep's LI get a small cameo instead of Liara?

[Reikilea]

Vapaä wrote...

Reikilea wrote...

And how are you supposed to know what exactly is her gift
about?

I don't know....by asking "what exactly is this gift " perhaps ?

Did Bioware ever gave us option to ask about what exactly Liara meant by suggesting mind melt with Shepard. The renegade reply after the first time was actually very entertaining.

And why I never got the option to not hold hands with her? Or maybe a renegade interupt when she leaned her head on Shepard´s shoulder.

Modifié par Reikilea, 23 mai 2012 - 12:39 .

[Vapaa]

Reikilea wrote...

Did Bioware ever gave us option to ask about exactly Liara meant by trying mind melt with Shepard. The renegade reply after the first time was actually quite entertaining.

Yep you have the option to ask

Reikilea wrote...

And why I never got the option to not hold hands with her? Or maybe a renegade interupt when she leaned her head on Shepard´s shoulder.

Don't meld with her, problem solved

Tiberis wrote...
The ending specifically shows her whether you romance her or not; why? Why couldn't my Shep's LI get a small cameo instead of Liara?

Why ? because Biwoare is lazy that's why, if you don' romance either Liara or the VS, you're SoL

[Skullheart]

Shepard canon romance should be Shepard's hand.

[Reikilea]

Vapaä wrote...

Reikilea wrote...

Did Bioware ever gave us option to ask about exactly Liara meant by trying mind melt with Shepard. The renegade reply after the first time was actually quite entertaining.

Yep you have the option to ask

Reikilea wrote...

And why I never got the option to not hold hands with her? Or maybe a renegade interupt when she leaned her head on Shepard´s shoulder.

Don't meld with her, problem solved

And yet you admitted it was forced the first time. That explanation was nothing useful.

Again how I was supposed to know she is gonna be that familiar with me. I only wanted to say paragon goodbye as I did with everyone else. Even Spock keep his distance while his is Doing his Vulcan mind-melding.

And btw to the dogtags issue - why Hackett gave them to Liara to keep them? Why not VS,especially if VS was your LI. 

[Aurora313]

Reikilea wrote...

And yet you admitted it was forced the first time. That explanation was nothing useful.

Again how I was supposed to know she is gonna be that familiar with me. I only wanted to say paragon goodbye as I did with everyone else. Even Spock keep his distance while his is Doing his Vulcan mind-melding.

And btw to the dogtags issue - why Hackett gave them to Liara to keep them? Why not VS,especially if VS was your LI. 

Yeah, the tags pissed me off. And, I'm a do*che to Liara no matter which playthrough I'm doing. In one, she keeps to herself. Thank god. In the second one, the first thing she does is hug me? I would have prefered a renegade interrupt that pushes her away when she tries. She's not my Shepard's friend in one, he keeps her at a very huge distance. In 2, Shepard needs the information at her disposal, so he plays 'relatively nice' to get it. In 3, she's my best friend and I can't tell her to ****** off or grow a pair after Thessia.

It's just one damn world, and it's the Asari's own fault for it happening. Considering you had to leave Earth behind at Anderson's orders? Where's your goddamn comfort, or shoulder to cry on?

... Oh right, it's Liara. Not the love interest of that playthrough, Goddamned Liara! I would have loved if they focused on the other romances half as much as they focused on Liara's content. Would have made my game a hell of a lot better... Especially where the VS is concerned.

Sorry. This is just atrocious.

Modifié par Aurora313, 23 mai 2012 - 01:03 .

[Vapaa]

Reikilea wrote...

And yet you admitted it was forced the first time. That explanation was nothing useful.

What ? when she asks if you want the gift you can refuses , how is it forced ?
And you can know it's a mind meld by just asking her, she only mind meld with you if you want to

[Aurora313]

Vapaä wrote...

Reikilea wrote...

And yet you admitted it was forced the first time. That explanation was nothing useful.

What ? when she asks if you want the gift you can refuses , how is it forced ?
And you can know it's a mind meld by just asking her, she only mind meld with you if you want to

He means in the first game. You've got not choice to tell her to ****** off. Well, you do, but she insists. In a blunt way, it can be classed as 'Mind Rape'.

Modifié par Aurora313, 23 mai 2012 - 01:16 .

[Reikilea]

Vapaä wrote...

Reikilea wrote...

And yet you admitted it was forced the first time. That explanation was nothing useful.

What ? when she asks if you want the gift you can refuses , how is it forced ?
And you can know it's a mind meld by just asking her, she only mind meld with you if you want to

Yup that one was for the fist game. But yeah you cant really say no, as it is needed for the story continuation. But it did freaked me out a little. So forced a bit.

Goodbye scene before the final push - I am not really talking about the mind meld in this. Shepard should be already used to it. He had it quite a lot of it in the first game.

I am talking about what comes after that. Shoulder - and why are they holding hands? Couldnt understand why would they hold hands like that if they are not romantically involved.  As you cant even hug Garrus- who is basically cannon bromance.

Modifié par Reikilea, 23 mai 2012 - 01:37 .

[Aurora313]

Garrus I don't mind as a canon bro-mance, and I don't mind the Vega-Shepard Bromance either. I liked those two characters.

Modifié par Aurora313, 23 mai 2012 - 01:43 .

[vvDRUCILLAvv]

Liara's little hand holding scene at the end of the game gave me the creeps. It was as if she was coming on to me or something. Very forced, not cool.

[BP93]

Reikilea wrote...

Vapaä wrote...

Reikilea wrote...

And yet you admitted it was forced the first time. That explanation was nothing useful.

What ? when she asks if you want the gift you can refuses , how is it forced ?
And you can know it's a mind meld by just asking her, she only mind meld with you if you want to

Yup that one was for the fist game. But yeah you cant really say no, as it is needed for the story continuation. But it did freaked me out a little. So forced a bit.

Goodbye scene before the final push - I am not really talking about the mind meld in this. Shepard should be already used to it. He had it quite a lot of it in the first game.

I am talking about what comes after that. Shoulder - and why are they holding hands? Couldnt understand why would they hold hands like that if they are not romantically involved.  As you cant even hug Garrus- who is basically cannon bromance.

Glad I wasn't the only that was a little baffled by the whole holding hands thing. I was pretty much a dick to her throughout all three games in one of my playthroughs (renegade Shepard), yet she still is holding hands with my Shepard even though I had never romanced her? If that doesn't show you that Liara is basically forced onto you, then I don't know what will.