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[ShadowLordXII]

Trying something different for research purposes

Which origin do people consider to be the most heroic and satisfying to playthrough and why?

Poll: http://social.biowar...14/polls/24765/

Close tie between the City Elf and Human Noble for me.  The City elf is the classic story of the social outcast who rises to defend a country who hates and oppresses them and is recognized and respected towards the end.

The Human noble is a potential patriot who defends the country even through personal tragedy of the worst kind and triumphs through vengeance and hardship.

Thoughts?

[Bhryaen]

By the same reasoning as your CE's heroic rise, the DC's rise from casteless exploitation and ostracization- even issued a facial branding for their station in dwarven society- up to revered champion of both Ferelden and their native Orzammar, further making a mark for others similarly oppressed, definitely qualifies. CEs may be outcastes and treated poorly, but the dwarven casteless are openly and officially considered at best surplus population by both law and oral and written tradition. Plus the casteless can't even just point to humans for blame and just run off to join the welcoming arms of Dalish clans, having nowhere to turn but the foreign and disorienting surface that hardly has any support groups for wayward Brands. And a DC female has that extra social resistance to face...

But "heroism" is a subjective term, and for some it's quite the feat to go from being a pampered human noble of a family just a few steps from royalty to being, well, royalty. Wow. Even a dwarven prince doesn't get to accede to the throne of Orzammar, but that's heroism for ya.

[ShadowLordXII]

True, something I like about the human noble is that they have much to contend with that they can't do anything about.

Killing Howe won't erase that he was given the position of your murdered father or the people that he killed and even when raised back to his status or higher, the human noble won't be able to fully enjoy those "noble perks" because of the sacrifice made as a Grey Warden.

I like what's been said about the dwarf commoner too.

[jillabender]

The City Elf background is my favourite – not only is the origin story very emotionally intense, but it's immensely satisfying to reunite with Shianni, Soris and Cyrion and save the Alienage (twice!) toward the end of the game.

As far as which background story I consider the most heroic, it's a tough call. I agree that both the Dwarf Commoner and City Elf origins offer lots of potential to play a heroic character, for all of the reasons that have been mentioned. I'd argue that a Dalish Warden can potentially be very heroic as well. I find it heart-breaking to imagine that the Dalish Elf might rather have died of the Darkspawn taint among his or her clan, instead of becoming a Grey Warden, so the idea that the Dalish Elf does a Grey Warden's duty even though he or she may never have wanted to be a hero embodies, for me, a very moving ideal of heroic sacrifice.

Modifié par jillabender, 26 mai 2012 - 05:15 .

[Klidi]

Elven mage. Hated for your race, feared and despised for your abilities, betrayed by your best friend. With literally no one who cares about you, or a real home. There is even possibility to choose punishment for helping Jowan, not joining Wardens - of course, then DUncan conscripts you.
And yet you go and risk your life again and again to save everyone.

[Fiacre]

I... might be lone in this but I don't really think it depends as much on the origin as how you play the character. You can play a HN that goes from pampered noble to a shining paragon of virtues that never becomes royalty (it's not like the game forces you to marry Anora/Alistair) or even gets any other noble title (except Arl of Amarinthine if you import them to Awakening). Just as you can play a CE who makes the deal with Vaughan and spends the game killing everyone left and right and being the biggest douchebag ever. The game may set you up with a chance to defy social conventions and rise to heroism, but it depends entirely on you if your character deserves the title Hero of Ferelden.

(I find playing pure heroes in this setting boring though anyway, so... *shrugs* That's what I play Zelda for.)

Modifié par Fiacre, 25 mai 2012 - 10:52 .

[Bhryaen]

@Fiacre That is a very good point, of course- that (in addition to the relativity of what one person considers a hero) it's rather meaningless to base "hero" status on a race and/ or social status alone, and I believe most voting in that poll were voting for favorite Origin, not most heroic Origin. I admit I seem to have overlooked that conundrum myself in favor of a determination of which Origin appears to me the most heroic when it does, in fact, champion that "paragon of virtue" role. Surely any such paragon is deserving of credit as a hero, regardless of background, but it's a lot more meaningful for me to see someone of such virtue whose spectacular rise to the occasion to the rescue of all was also against a sea of others' needless resentment, despite all of the social order seeming to conspire against their ever making anything of themselves, and without the promise of, say, marrying into regal stewardship of Ferelden to sweeten the deal metagamingly.

That said my paragonly virtuous rogue heroes generally pickpocket absolutely anyone they come across... lol Reallocation of resources for the rescue... yeah...

[Klidi]

Well, it is true that Surana is my favourite Origin... but it's my favourite Origin because it has, imho, the biggest potential.
- there is so little known about Surana's background you're free to roleplay him/her however your want.
- all non-mage Origins have someone to care about, to fight for, but Surana and Amell don't have even that.
- all elven Wardens get racist comments, but Surana is also hated for being a mage..

That's why I like that Origin so much and why for me, 'hero' Surana has bigger weight than, for example 'hero Cousland'. But that's just my personal preference.

Modifié par Klidi, 25 mai 2012 - 09:10 .

[Fiacre]

Bhryaen wrote...

@Fiacre That is a very good point, of course- that (in addition to the relativity of what one person considers a hero) it's rather meaningless to base "hero" status on a race and/ or social status alone, and I believe most voting in that poll were voting for favorite Origin, not most heroic Origin. I admit I seem to have overlooked that conundrum myself in favor of a determination of which Origin appears to me the most heroic when it does, in fact, champion that "paragon of virtue" role. Surely any such paragon is deserving of credit as a hero, regardless of background, but it's a lot more meaningful for me to see someone of such virtue whose spectacular rise to the occasion to the rescue of all was also against a sea of others' needless resentment, despite all of the social order seeming to conspire against their ever making anything of themselves, and without the promise of, say, marrying into regal stewardship of Ferelden to sweeten the deal metagamingly.

That said my paragonly virtuous rogue heroes generally pickpocket absolutely anyone they come across... lol Reallocation of resources for the rescue... yeah...

I do think we can agree with that. A Tabris or Surana or Brosca paragon is probably more impressive than a Cousland one because of the reasons you cited (though I think depending on characterization a Cousland can be rather impressive as well). Once again the Hn origin does open up the possibility for some tropes there that I rather like though <.< I'm getting far too attached to that origin. Good thing I'm planning Amell and Aeducan playthroughs... (And have to make a Brosca one of these days, seriously.)

Heh! If I ever play a rogue I'd probably do that, too. I generally liked having my second Cousland be all honourable and heroic one moment and then going off to accept quests like the Trial of the Crows or those the Gnawed Noble Bartender offers. Or having my current one switch from heroic to having Alistair executed and not giving a damn or subconsciously trying to make Loghain his replacement father figure. (Boy has some issues. Someone should probably try and save him from himself <.<)

[SiIencE]

I mostly player mage myself, human/elf and some dalish elf rogue pts.
Mage because it's pretty easy to play and warrior/rogue just don't work well for me.
Rogue only as archer.

I read somewhere that those human noble/commoner and dwarf noble/commoner are pretty cool also if not alot better. And City Elf seems to be worth it.
1 thing i don't really get, people talk about a 'Amell PT' how does this work?


I'm currently doing Female Human noble to see if i can take the throne (And wonder what happens if i import this save into DA2 will Alistair still show he should stay in the grey wardens when loghain is killed...?)

[Fiacre]

SiIencE wrote...

I mostly player mage myself, human/elf and some dalish elf rogue pts.
Mage because it's pretty easy to play and warrior/rogue just don't work well for me.
Rogue only as archer.

I read somewhere that those human noble/commoner and dwarf noble/commoner are pretty cool also if not alot better. And City Elf seems to be worth it.
1 thing i don't really get, people talk about a 'Amell PT' how does this work?


I'm currently doing Female Human noble to see if i can take the throne (And wonder what happens if i import this save into DA2 will Alistair still show he should stay in the grey wardens when loghain is killed...?)

There's no human commoner (unfortunately). If you want to e a human, you can either be a human mage or a human noble. And Amell is the surname of the human mage, so an Amell playthrough would be playing as a human mage; the elven mage is called Surana, the city elf Tabris, dwarf noble is an Aeducan, the dwarf commoner is called Brosca and the Dalish elf Mahariel.

And to become princess consort you have to marry King Alistair which means he'll leave the wardens (though he'll stay in your party if Loghain is killed). IIRC he has a cameo as King in DA2.

Modifié par Fiacre, 26 mai 2012 - 12:03 .

[SiIencE]

Hmm yes but if you recruit Loghain then Alistair will quit/leave and becomes a drunk in DA2 (So i've heard not actually seen this). So i wonder who comes to visit then if at all or the 'kings' visit will just be replaced by drunk Alistair i guess?

I'm really enjoying my Female Human Noble PT atm, some parts where you can actually say 'i'm noble' or where your name/yourself is recognized. As a mage your 'just a mage' (even if you are an Amell mage) Also i don't remember Cullen responding to 'Solona - Amell' i think we kinda 'hooked up'.
I can't quite remember what my Dalish Elf PT was like, i remember i enjoyed it but can't really remember details.

I do remember importing it into DA2 and it didn't seem to give other elves 'more respect' even though the Warden that saved Ferelden was an Elf. I just wonder what will happen when i import a Human Noble.

Modifié par SiIencE, 26 mai 2012 - 07:11 .

[Fiacre]

Wiki says that yes, you'll get drunk Alistair instead.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

SiIencE wrote...

Hmm yes but if you recruit Loghain then Alistair will quit/leave and becomes a drunk in DA2 (So i've heard not actually seen this). So i wonder who comes to visit then if at all or the 'kings' visit will just be replaced by drunk Alistair i guess?

I can't quite remember what my Dalish Elf PT was like, i remember i enjoyed it but can't really remember details.

I do remember importing it into DA2 and it didn't seem to give other elves 'more respect' even though the Warden that saved Ferelden was an Elf. I just wonder what will happen when i import a Human Noble.

If Loghain is spared, Alistair will quit the Wardens. If you hardened him, he will still be willing to marry Anora. (Do you see what I did there?)
If not, he'll just quit. Anora will try to have him killed, just to be sure he won't come after Loghain: you can nix that or allow it. If you allow it, I don't think he has any cameo in DA2 whatsoever. If you nix it, Drunkistair.
As for elves getting more respect? The last archdemon was killed by the elf Garahel, and First Enchanter Orsino is an elf too. Frankly, I don't think elves are ever getting any respect.

[grey_wind]

I find the City Elf to be the most poetic, since you get to save the alienage you grew up in from Loghain as well as have the final battle take place in the city you were born in (and perhaps die there as well).
Dunno if that counts for anything.

[SiIencE]

So i guess my next PT will be a City Elf. After that most likely a Dwarf Commoner or Noble haven't decided yet.

Well i just finished my Human Noble pt and i loved it, romanced Morrigan succesfully, got everything correct (except import didn't show into witch hunt - long live pc and console commands). Just need to do Awakening and i'm done

Which would be preferred, City elf or Dwarf noble/commoner? For a next pt?

Modifié par SiIencE, 27 mai 2012 - 07:59 .

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

SiIencE wrote...

Which would be preferred, City elf or Dwarf noble/commoner? For a next pt?

... you're not seriously passing this decsion to the BSN?

The game is supposed to entertain you.

[Fiacre]

Faerunner wrote...

Why limit yourself? Try them all and see which one most appeals to you.

(Still think the City Elf and Dwarf Commoner are the most heroic though.)

This. /says the person stuck on Human Noble :I

And the more I think about it, the more I'm thinking that City Elf wins when it comes to set up there. Since they're saving Ferelden despite all the discrimnation against them there. (And there's something appealing about the Hero of Ferelden being from Ferelden... Though you could say the DC saving a country that isn't even his is more heroic. Hmm...)

[HiroVoid]

Fiacre wrote...

Faerunner wrote...

Why limit yourself? Try them all and see which one most appeals to you.

(Still think the City Elf and Dwarf Commoner are the most heroic though.)

This. /says the person stuck on Human Noble :I

And the more I think about it, the more I'm thinking that City Elf wins when it comes to set up there. Since they're saving Ferelden despite all the discrimnation against them there. (And there's something appealing about the Hero of Ferelden being from Ferelden... Though you could say the DC saving a country that isn't even his is more heroic. Hmm...)

I'd say Dwarf Commoner.  A City Elf is still saving their alienage(though you could argue not stopping the blight in general will get whoever you care about killed at some point.)

[SiIencE]

Ok, thanks for the advice, Dwarf Commoner it is since i already played Dalish elf once or twice and never ever dwarf Will be fun kicking Oghren I have no idea what will happen so it will be fun (in all 3 cases).