274 réponses à ce sujet

[BjornDaDwarf]

nuculerman wrote...

Omega-202 wrote...

<meaningless red herring laced with ad hominems>

Reported.

Your math is utterly meaningless.  The human sentinel without tech armor has better DPS potential than the human sentinel with tech armor.  If he can't reach that potential, it's irrelevant.

Let me reiterate.

If you aren't using biotic explosions as your main DPS mechanic as a human sentinel, you're doing it wrong.  And tech armor does nothing for the damage caused by that.

Conclusion: the power damage passive is meaningless for the Human Sentinel.

Thanks for playing, though.

Care to share your math to prove that?  The passive damage bonus does affect Warp and Throw, which are part of your total DPS.  Whether you are counting them or not, they are.  Both powers cause damage, in addition to their part in biototic priming/detonating.  I'm willing to entertain the possibility that either scenario is correct, but you aren't really showing anything to prove your side. 

Modifié par BjornDaDwarf, 22 mai 2012 - 08:51 .

[mcz2345]

BoomDynamite wrote...

mcz2345 wrote...

NONONONONONONNONONONONONONNO. THIS:


OT: WHERE IS MY EAGLE BUFF???

I don't see any difference

[Cyonan]

aaronisbla wrote...

Im sorry but what? The increase of the base dr by 10% does indeed help you tank better. You go down to enemy fire slower than you would as of yesterday. How is that not easy to see? 

Does the 10% more DR help you take more damage? Yes it does.

Does the 10% more DR make the Krogan Sentinel an effective tank? No it doesn't.

Omega-202 wrote...

You can't argue intentions unless we have a statement about its purpose.  

The fact of the matter is that this is not a Tank/Healer/DPS RPG.  You don't need a true "tank".  This is a shooter and having something that can absorb obscene amounts of punishment throws off the flow of combat.  

Since we can't argue intentions, we can only discuss the reality of it.  What TA does is make you more durable and boost either your power damage or your melee damage.  So in practice, it makes casters bulkier and a bit punchier or it gives melee combatants (who are already the toughest bunch in the game) a bit of boost for when they're in CQC.  

You shouldn't be able to just waltz around with a Krogan Sentinel drawing aggro like a meat-shield.  If you were, they'd have given you a taunt and a ground pound.  

 

We can't argue intentions, and this isn't an RPG that utilizes the holy trinity of MMOs.

However, the Krogan Sentinel is not the toughest chracter in the game. He has the highest effective health true, but the Human Vanguard can take more punishment than him despite the fact that the Human is tied for the second worst effective health in the game.

The Krogan are advertised as the species that can take a lot of punishment, but anything with a shield regen can take more than the Soldier or Sentinel. Even the Salarians can take more punishment because of Energy Drain.

[Omega-202]

nuculerman wrote...

Omega-202 wrote...

<meaningless red herring laced with ad hominems>

Reported.

Your math is utterly meaningless.  The human sentinel without tech armor has better DPS potential than the human sentinel with tech armor.  If he can't reach that potential, it's irrelevant.

Let me reiterate.

If you aren't using biotic explosions as your main DPS mechanic as a human sentinel, you're doing it wrong.  And tech armor does nothing for the damage caused by that.

Conclusion: the power damage passive is meaningless for the Human Sentinel.

Thanks for playing, though.

Congratulations on not reading a thing I wrote.  Does burying your head in the sand make you feel good?  

Biotic explosions ARE ALWAYS the main DPS mechanic of the Sentinel.  But you're losing .2 seconds total on Warp + Throw.  Thats an impossibly small difference that the human mind and your internet connection CANNOT PROCESS.  It literally cannot make a difference to the overall DPS.  Your explosions will occur at exactly the same rate no matter what.  

The power damage passive IS NOT meaningless.  You CANNOT one shot Cannibals on Gold with Throw without it.  I know this for a fact.  My Asari cannot but my Sentinel can.  End of story.  It matters.

[nuculerman]

Longhammer808 wrote...
After some consideration, point to Nuculerman. Good use of "ad hominem" to describe someone who just straight up called you names.

Well considering he didn't address my point at all, and posted math to calculate something totally different, while calling me a moron, I'd call it a mostly red herring with some ad hominem thrown in.  Again, the implication is I'm a moron, and therefore I'm wrong.

[Atheosis]

nuculerman wrote...

Omega-202 wrote...

<meaningless red herring laced with ad hominems>

Reported.

Your math is utterly meaningless.  The human sentinel without tech armor has better DPS potential than the human sentinel with tech armor.  If he can't reach that potential, it's irrelevant.

Let me reiterate.

If you aren't using biotic explosions as your main DPS mechanic as a human sentinel, you're doing it wrong.  And tech armor does nothing for the damage caused by that.

Conclusion: the power damage passive is meaningless for the Human Sentinel.

Thanks for playing, though.

No, what is meaningless is the infintesimal difference in recharge speed.   Really, this should be obvious to all.

[Taritu]

Well, human sentinels are now clearly the strongest sustained dps biotics. They probably were before, but it's not even close now. I'll be playing my human sentinel in specific and my sentinels in general a lot more.

[Omega-202]

Longhammer808 wrote...
After some consideration, point to Nuculerman. Good use of "ad hominem" to describe someone who just straight up called you names.

Side with the person who provides no proof or math to back up their statement just because they use latin phrases that they've picked up on internet forums.  

Ignore the hard facts and continue to use a suboptimal set up.  Please, it doesn't harm me a bit.  

[Endcat]

I feel like that additional 10% DR for tech armor should have been split between a 30% base and a 10% level 4 evolution. As it is the 5% evolution is kinda shabby.

Also, I think the patch notes are wrong. TA's power and damage bonuses are both level 5, not 3 or 4.

[Cyonan]

Omega-202 wrote...

Biotic explosions ARE ALWAYS the main DPS mechanic of the Sentinel.  But you're losing .2 seconds total on Warp + Throw.  Thats an impossibly small difference that the human mind and your internet connection CANNOT PROCESS.  It literally cannot make a difference to the overall DPS.  Your explosions will occur at exactly the same rate no matter what.  

The power damage passive IS NOT meaningless.  You CANNOT one shot Cannibals on Gold with Throw without it.  I know this for a fact.  My Asari cannot but my Sentinel can.  End of story.  It matters.

Well, to be fair I don't need to process the 0.2 seconds because my computer is doing it for me. It doesn't matter what my reaction time is because having Tech Armour on doesn't somehow speed up my reaction time.

Of course, the DPS loss on a 0.2 seconds of cooldown is so incredibly tiny, especially when you have 20% power damage, that it just doesn't matter. Human reaction time has nothing to do with it, though.

[Maria Caliban]

mcz2345 wrote...

BoomDynamite wrote...

mcz2345 wrote...

NONONONONONONNONONONONONONNO. THIS:


OT: WHERE IS MY EAGLE BUFF???

I don't see any difference

One is yellow and one is blue.

There's also a synthesis image, but your War Assets weren't high enough.

[nuculerman]

Omega-202 wrote...

Congratulations on not reading a thing I wrote.  Does burying your head in the sand make you feel good?  

I read what you wrote.

I said, Sentinels have more damage potential without tech armor.

You said: you're a moron.  Then "proved" that we can't take advantage of their higher damage potential.

What you "proved" did not change what I said.  What you "proved" was that in practice, each build would do the same damage with biotic explosions.  And congrats on that. 

And I'm not burying my head in the sand.  My point requires no math.  What math do you want me to do?  Biotic explosions are not affected by power passives.  30%*0=0?

And my human sentinel uses tech armor.  All six levels of it.  I have an asari adept.  I like playing my HS because he can stay out of cover longer and save allies with tech armor bursts.  So your assumption that I'm running with a sub optimal build, simply because I made the point tech armor doesn't help his damage output, and does in fact decrease his POTENTIAL damage output, is yet another logical fallacy.  You seem to have those nailed.

[BlackbirdSR-71C]

Please, Bioware, make submission net an "always-ht" power that can't miss! It's an excellent power in terms of crowd controll, but it simply misses too often so that you can't rely on it at all!

[IonSilverbolt]

Sentry turret buff was too puny to matter. It's still not even half as useful as the Geth turret.

If they would fix shock to work like the chain attack the combat drone has, that might make it a significant defensive tool, and help make her not so weak against Geth. As it is now, it's just sub-standard. It even takes longer to deploy than the other engineer pets.

[BjornDaDwarf]

nuculerman wrote...

Longhammer808 wrote...
After some consideration, point to Nuculerman. Good use of "ad hominem" to describe someone who just straight up called you names.

Well considering he didn't address my point at all, and posted math to calculate something totally different, while calling me a moron, I'd call it a mostly red herring with some ad hominem thrown in.  Again, the implication is I'm a moron, and therefore I'm wrong.

How do you define "address the point"?  He showed that the actual affect on how long it takes to prime and set off BEs with TA is a tiny fraction of the total BE cycle, even without TA.  The number of cycles you can execute is one factor in your DPS.  Another factor is the base damage Warp/Throw are doing. 

At a theortical BE spamming perfection, you're losing 1 BE every 10 or so that you throw out.  But you're gaining 30 percent damage to your base Warp/Throw damages.  So you're going to throw out 20 total buffed Warp/Throw powers to the one BE you might lose.

Practically, you are probably not losing any BEs at all. There are plenty of times a player isn't ready to hit the next Warp/Throw button exactly when CD ends. 

But if you've got the math to show otherwise, please show them.

Modifié par BjornDaDwarf, 22 mai 2012 - 09:07 .

[Serkevan]

nuculerman wrote...

Omega-202 wrote...

Congratulations on not reading a thing I wrote.  Does burying your head in the sand make you feel good?  

I read what you wrote.

I said, Sentinels have more damage potential without tech armor.

You said: you're a moron.  Then "proved" that we can't take advantage of their higher damage potential.

What you "proved" did not change what I said.  What you "proved" was that in practice, each build would do the same damage with biotic explosions.  And congrats on that. 

And I'm not burying my head in the sand.  My point requires no math.  What math do you want me to do?  Biotic explosions are not affected by power passives.  30%*0=0?

And my human sentinel uses tech armor.  All six levels of it.  I have an asari adept.  I like playing my HS because he can stay out of cover longer and save allies with tech armor bursts.  So your assumption that I'm running with a sub optimal build, simply because I made the point tech armor doesn't help his damage output, and does in fact decrease his POTENTIAL damage output, is yet another logical fallacy.  You seem to have those nailed.

Now, but with extreme care, add the damage of the compulsary Warp and Throw. Then, add the 30% extra damage bonus they get. IT IS DPS. Do you understand it? DPS of BX != DPS. Warp+Throw deals MORE damage than the BE they set off. Ergo, a substantial increase on both their damages increases TOTAL DPS. Which you denied. So, please, start reasoning before you post.

[Sparrow44]

Anyone want to test whether Submission and Shockwave make a good Tech Burst combo with the Batarian Sentinel now?

[o Revan x]

This is stupid, 3 months after premiere and still almost every change is to buff something. Buff everything 20% and get it over with.

[Serkevan]

Jet Bahamut wrote...

Anyone want to test whether Submission and Shockwave make a good Tech Burst combo with the Batarian Sentinel now?

The tech burst is exactly the same. And in any case, the CD on Net for me is irelevant. I can miss an Atlas at point blank T___T

[Maria Caliban]

Longhammer808 wrote...

After some consideration, point to Nuculerman. Good use of "ad hominem" to describe someone who just straight up called you names.

Straight up calling someone a name isn't an ad hominem.


Not an ad hominem -
Person A: I like candy. Candy is the best.
Person B: You're a ****ing idiot and can go die in a fire. Ice cream is the best!

An ad hominem -
Person A: I like candy. Candy is the best.
Person B: Of course you'd say that, you own a candy store. Ice cream is the best.

[Cyonan]

XxTaLoNxX wrote...

@ Cyonan: You raise good, true points. But you are assuming that people are tanking with the Krogan Sentinel. Which some people probably are. The thing is... they are doing it wrong.

The point of the Krogan Sentinel is that it is an artillery piece. It causes the most amount of mayhem and damage and can walk away from it. But that doesn't make them invincible. On the contrary it's a "high risk/high reward" type character.

Oh and it doesn't care about cooldowns. It can effectively carry the best and heaviest weapons and throw grenades to soften up crowds and then move in for the kill.

Well, my point was that if they wanted to make Sentinels the tanky class, this isn't going to set them ahead of Vanguards, Salarians, or even the Human Soldier. I know we don't use "traditional" MMO tanks, but Sentinels in ME2 were made into the class that can take more punishment than the others, and Krogan are the species that can do the same. However, the Salarian Engineer can take more punishment than the Krogan Sentinel can right now.

If they want them to be more durable casters and soldiers though rather than the tankiest thing in the game, then this helps them do that.

[DaDiddles]

To those complaining that the TA boost doesn't change your ability to "tank" my question is, why do you want to "tank" in a shooter anyway?

Tanking makes sense in a traditional RPG, because you're basically a giant meatshield for your high-damaging "nuke" characters like mages to hide behind while they hurl fireballs and lightning bolts to obliterate everything.

But this game has cover to hide behind, so what would be the purpose of a tank even if one existed?

That said, while there is no "tank" in the traditional sense, what all this damage reduction and health/shield bonsues do for you is allow you to take much more punishment in the form of sustained, rapid-fire damage. Play as a Krogan Sentinel capping a point while 1 Cannibal is shooting at you, and you can laugh it off. Play as a Drell capping a point while 1 Cannibal is shooting at you, and you'll be dead in seconds.

[GodlessPaladin]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Longhammer808 wrote...

After some consideration, point to Nuculerman. Good use of "ad hominem" to describe someone who just straight up called you names.

Straight up calling someone a name isn't an ad hominem.


Not an ad hominem -
Person A: I like candy. Candy is the best.
Person B: You're a ****ing idiot and can go die in a fire. Ice cream is the best!

An ad hominem -
Person A: I like candy. Candy is the best.
Person B: Of course you'd say that, you own a candy store. Ice cream is the best.

This.  There is no logical fallacy inherent to insulting someone.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 22 mai 2012 - 09:12 .

[nuculerman]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Longhammer808 wrote...

After some consideration, point to Nuculerman. Good use of "ad hominem" to describe someone who just straight up called you names.

Straight up calling someone a name isn't an ad hominem.


Not an ad hominem -
Person A: I like candy. Candy is the best.
Person B: You're a ****ing idiot and can go die in a fire. Ice cream is the best!

An ad hominem -
Person A: I like candy. Candy is the best.
Person B: Of course you'd say that, you own a candy store. Ice cream is the best.

Which was his point.  He gave the point to me, despite the fact I incorrectly used "ad hominem" which he pointed out with sarcasm.  However, I called it "laced" with ad hominem because the implication was I didn't know or couldn't do simple math, and therefore my point was irrelevant.  Considering he didn't address "potential" DPS at all, I think it's a valid analysis.