120 réponses à ce sujet

[Omega-202]

Star fury wrote...

Can someone tell why exactly HS is better against Reapers than AA? All I see is "HS > AA vs reapers LOL". And against Geths too.

Reapers only have Marauders who are effected by Stasis.  Nobody in their right mind uses Stasis on Cannibals or Husks.  Why would you trade such a situational power over 40% resistance? 

[Phazael]

The tech armor is going to have the most dramatic effect on Turian Sentinals who build around Chain Overload. The impact on human ones who play like a poor man's AA is going to be virtually non-existant. They will be better at clearing trash in early waves/bronze, but once the big stuff comes out and speed chaining explosions becomes the key to damage, the AA will still leave the human sentinal behind if they are using Tech Armor. The AE mele and invulnerable dodge mechanics of the AA also set her apart from the HS in a big way.

The two exceptions to this, in my opinion, will be HS who follow around Novatards priming stuff for them, since the extra survivability will help them not get killed in the process, especially when it comes time to revive said Novatard. Also, a HS who partners with a AJ is going to be almost as hard to kill as the AJ making the two biotic camp farm even stronger than the AA + AJ version, assuming you can make do without stasis.

The cooldown hit from Tech armor is pretty noticable for one major reason, though. That extra third of a second is the difference between being able to chain lockdown three trash enemies with AE throw and them being able to occasionally squeeze shots off at you. Of course you do not have to have Tech Armor on all the time, either. The explosion boost is worthless on Gold or even Silver as it relies on closing with the enemy with a non-tanking class and terminating your main defense power.

[Phazael]

Omega-202 wrote...

Star fury wrote...

Can someone tell why exactly HS is better against Reapers than AA? All I see is "HS > AA vs reapers LOL". And against Geths too.

Reapers only have Marauders who are effected by Stasis.  Nobody in their right mind uses Stasis on Cannibals or Husks.  Why would you trade such a situational power over 40% resistance? 

Because on Gold its all about log jamming stuff.  Freezing a cannibal in a door so he holds up all his pals and they cluster together for a single Biotic Detonation is a pretty big deal on harder settings in confined maps.  So is painting a key target halfway across the map.  Tech armor got better, but its still not enough to make up for stasis or the Asari teleport dodge, at least not past bronze.  It made the Turian Overload Sentinal a lot better, though.

[overlordchinx]

Ashen Earth wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Amano Kazumi wrote...

Against Cerberus, is having a Carnifex and Stasis worth trading so much life away?

A Phantom doesn't care how much life you have.

TA can stun multiple Phantoms.

A staggered Phantom is a dead Phantom, they're hilariously weak when they're not jumping around. It's also funny when they try to cloak, and run away because you can just detonate TA again in the last area you saw them in because you're pretty much guaranteed a kill at that point.

While playing with tech armor last night I was able to chain stagger a phantom through a pillar since the explosion can apparently go through walls when detonating TA

[Star fury]

Omega-202 wrote...

Reapers only have Marauders who are effected by Stasis.  Nobody in their right mind uses Stasis on Cannibals or Husks.  Why would you trade such a situational power over 40% resistance? 

During early waves Cannibals are the most dangerous enemies with Marauders. Put bubble in the choke point and all who went there become nice target for BE or just shooting. Again, stasis is useful against most dangerous enemy - Marauder, another one - ravager is easily killed with BE.
"40% resistance" means absolute zero on gold. You will be killed with the same two-three shots with or without TA.

Modifié par Star fury, 23 mai 2012 - 03:08 .

[Poison_Berrie]

Star fury wrote...

Can someone tell why exactly HS is better against Reapers than AA? All I see is "HS > AA vs reapers LOL". And against Geths too.

More damage potential for throw, means you can more easily kill husks and cannibals, while retaining the same damage potential against the heavier enemies with your Biotic Explosions.

Phazael wrote...

They will be better at clearing trash in early waves/bronze, but once the big stuff comes out and speed chaining explosions becomes the key to damage, the AA will still leave the human sentinal behind if they are using Tech Armor.  

Speccing for CD penalty reduction will add less than .2 seconds to warp and less than .1 second to throw (at +200% weight CD bonus). 
An AA is .25 seconds faster in detonating a biotic explosion, theoretically. That means that you'd need to do 15 Biotic Explosions in succesion for the AA to actually pull ahead.

[Mandolin]

Omega-202 - you question my skill for favouring stasis instead of 40% dr. You've got it back to front. I have no problem surviving in gold without any dr so why should I want it instead of stasis. If you need the dr to play on gold then thats a different story.

[Variasaber]

Why the 6/6/6/0/6 setup? I haven't tried that one, but I find 6/6/6/4/4 to be effective if wielding a Talon. Doesn't leaving out Alliance Training significantly harm weapon damage?

It seems silly to leave out the power damage + encumberance boost you get at 4th rank in Alliance Training, unless you plan on never firing your gun, which means you limit yourself to relying on Throw's normal damage and Warp+Throw BEs as your sole forms of damage output. Honestly, that 200% cooldown bonus doesn't do much for you; I'd argue taking a better weapon and getting 140-180% is a better option, though having the equivalent health+shields of a Krogan does sound appealing.

If you have both an AA and an HS using the 6/6/6/4/4 build, the AA is still arguably more effective against Cerberus than the HS, as the AA can deal with Phantoms effortlessly while the HS has a lot of trouble with them.

[VRtheTrooper]

I've outscored AA's with HS many times. depends on how aggressive your play style is and your timing with detonations. if you go randomly spamming without tactic, well, you know the rest.

[Mandolin]

VRtheTrooper - anecdotal evidence. Depends entirely on the quality of AAs you were playing with.

[DarkerCompanion]

Star fury wrote...

Can someone tell why exactly HS is better against Reapers than AA? All I see is "HS > AA vs reapers LOL". And against Geths too.

The AA has unique strengths: An area of effect melee, a high mobility dodge with invincibility frames but with a shield drain cost, and Stasis. The AoE melee is a situational one which is only relevant in certain circumstances; especially since many AA's tank Fitness, it will be both weaksauce in damage, and leave you horribly defenseless while you go through the animation. The dodge is a matter of personal preference; its incredibly useful, but the loss of shields/shield recharge CAN get you killed if you use it wrong. Humans have a very good dodge of their own, so despite many people arguing to the contrary, the AA's dodge really doesn't make or break the class. Its not like the difference between a Krogan and an Asari.

So in the end, it really comes down to Stasis. Stasis is a remarkably powerful ability, in the right circumstances. Usually, this is Cerberus. Everything Cerb is stasisable except Atlases and Turrets. And Stasis is THE BEST way to kill Phantoms in the game. Almost no one will argue that the HS is better against Cerberus than the AA because of this.

However, on Geth and Reapers, Stasis is not so incredibly broken. Geth has 5 units; 2 are immune to Stasis, and 1 of them is very hard to target (Hunters) and they have a tendency to avoid the Stasis. Thus, you end up Stasising Rocket Troopers and regular Troopers, who don't even spawn after wave 6. So it comes down to Stasising the cowardly Rocket Troopers and trying to Stasis Hunters. This is no where near as useful as against Cerberus.

Reapers might be even worse. 3 out of 6 of the Reaper units can be Stasis'd, and they are all the least dangerous of the 3 (extra credit for the fact that you can lay down a bubble to kill Swarmers). Cannibals and Husks are a very limited threat, especially since both can be obliterated with a MUCH faster Throw, particularly the Husks who are usually 1-shotted. This leaves Marauders as the sole serious target of Stasis. And I won't doubt the danger of Marauders; when my entire team dies and its just me against heavy Reaper forces, its usually a marauder who kills me, not a Brute/Banshee/Ravager.

So in the end, what it comes down to is this: is the ability to stasis marauders more important to you than the benefits of Tech Armor? Sure, you can block off entrances sometimes, but this won't stop Banshees, and is highly situational. I'm not saying Stasis is useless, but Tech Armor is a very powerful skill. Furthermore, given that AA's are often run with less than maxed Fitness, you can compare the flimsy AA build to the full Fitness/Tech Armor build on the Sentinel for a much more durable class on Reapers, as well as Geth.

In the end, this is why. But the most important thing is this: Both the Human Sentinel and the Asari Adept are amongst the best classes in the game, and really, you should use what works better for you. They can both excel on all 3 enemy types.

[Phazael]

Banshees are not a problem for AAs or HS. The AAs will kill them faster if the HS has Tech Armor up. Honestly, BEs are about speed of primer and trigger. The AA wins that fight the moment Tech Armor enters the discussion, though the HS can turn it off. So it really comes down to the situational utility of Tech Armor detonation vs the situational utility of Asari AE Mele, Teleport Dodge, and Stasis. I think its fairly obvious how that shakes out, especially on Gold. If you are a FBWGG farmer, it really does not matter at all, but in all other cases the AA has the edge in speed and utility. Admitedly not by much, though.

[Sacrificial Bias]

I don't know if HS is better than AA now(kind of doubt it against Cerberus at least), but I DO see a lot more potential for "fun" to be had. IIRC, a Kroguard Biotic Charge does about 1350 Newtons of force with power synergy on Barriers and stuns even bosses pretty reliably. Now the upgraded TA bonus should boost Throw's force to 1470 Newtons with the Radius upgrade. Doesn't this mean you could stunlock big chunks of enemies fairly consistently? I don't think boss mobs can be stunlocked, and Phantoms will just block it with their gauntlets, but this sounds like something one could do for giggles on Bronze and maybe Silver. Or just something to troll FBWGG farmers with. Seriously, it's like a Falcon with unlimited ammo that curves around cover. I go for radius because I'm sure it makes it harder to dodge.

I'm currently going for a 6/6/6/5/3 build, but might promote after this week's Operation and go for a 6/0/6/6/6 build to troll the Infiltrators on my team whenever one of them is dumb enough to try and snipe the unshielded/unarmored mooks .

[Calibisto]

Nice that the Asari Adept is about 0.25 seconds faster with the Biotic Explosions.
That makes a difference if you can spam then non-stop.
How many BE's does the AA pull off if she goes down by an overlooked Geth Hunter?

I don't need the extra survivability on gold, but it sure comes in handy from time to time.

[Calibisto]

Variasaber wrote...

Why the 6/6/6/0/6 setup? I haven't tried that one, but I find 6/6/6/4/4 to be effective if wielding a Talon. Doesn't leaving out Alliance Training significantly harm weapon damage?

Putting points in Alliance Training normally gives a 10% weapon bonus.
I don't miss it when using a Tempest and AMP's+Ammo.
(Tempest because without Alliance Training one needs a lighter weapon than the Carnifax)

[Phazael]

The cool down a lot longer when you factor warp into the equation. And stay sis is better than 50 percent damage reduction when it comes to hunters

[mpompeo27]

DarkerCompanion wrote...

mpompeo27 wrote...

I just tried the Human Sentinel out. How could any of you possibly say the CD penalty from TA isn't noticeable? I couldn't stand it.

With the cooldown reduction at rank 6, its not noticable on throw, and only mildly noticable on warp.

My policy with Tech Armor is all or nothing; its best upgrades are its rank 6s, plus its rank 5. So either respec card it away entirely, or take it to rank 6.

Also, the CD penalty is more noticable on a slower power. Ever notice that taking a 30% cooldown upgrade on a super fast power results in a pitiful 0.1 second improvement? The same works in reverse. But if you are running 50% weapon cooldown with Warp's slower cooldown, you WILL see a difference. But if you are keeping your weapons at 200%, its not bad at all.

I'm a HUGE AA fan vs Cerberus. I would never use a HS against Cerberus instead of the AA. But I stick with the HS against Geth and Reapers.

I did have it at rank 6 w/ the cooldown reduction and I still noticed it and it still bothered me to hell. I didn't have my cooldown at full 200% though, I think I was around 160% so that might've been why.

[Calibisto]

Phazael wrote...

The cool down a lot longer when you factor warp into the equation. And stay sis is better than 50 percent damage reduction when it comes to hunters

That is where we differ in our thoughts.
I always use the 30% penalty reduction. So I only got a 40% DR (about 30% effective since one needs a full 133% DR to be immune)
Effectively this gives a 20% Cool down penalty.

Then the numbers become
Warp 200%: 2.46s
Warp 180%: 2.62s
difference= 0.16s

Throw 200%: 1.23s
Throw 180%: 1.31s
Difference: 0.08s

Total of 0.24s difference for Biotic Explosions

I'm not saying Stasis isn't a great power.
Just saying the 'delay' isn't such a big deal in a changing battlefield.
Dodging an attack will cost you more than that time.

[Edit: changed fluent to changing]

Modifié par Calibisto, 24 mai 2012 - 05:02 .

[mpompeo27]

I am retracting my previous statement about the cooldown penalty being noticeable. It was only noticeable b4 b/c I didn't have 200% bonus, but now using only the GPSMG I don't notice it at all and have decided that the human sentinel is in fact the most awesome sentinel. Period.

[Poison_Berrie]

Yes, the effects of cooldown penalties become more noticeable when you carry heavier weapons. Which is why you don't want a caster class to be to hampered down by heavy weapons.

[r0estir0bbe]

Slide > Roll.
Not debatable, shield drain is insignificant if it saves your ass (=health).