232 réponses à ce sujet

[Hihoshi101]

People do realize that saying stupid stuff like this could hurt the ending fix more than help it right? Threats make people respond but rarly in the way we want...

[Taboo]

wantedman dan wrote...

Caddywamps wrote...

1.  Anyone who knows anyone that takes him or herself seriously as any kind of artist knows that... delivering the ultimatum of "change your art or I'll leave" will only end with the artist showing him or her the door.  You don't have to like what said artist does, but the artist does what the artist feels is right.  Threats nor ultimatums convince anyone, but they might stir the courage to make a stand against them.

I'm only going to touch this part of your rant because I couldn't care less about the rest of them.

Anyone who knows anything knows the difference between commissioned art and personal art. Mass Effect 3, if it is art, is commissioned. 

The funny thing is, is that were I come from, that sometimes, when people didn't change their art, they were killed!

Ho-ho-holy sh*t!

Artists do compromise sometimes because they are forced.

Awful, but true.

Modifié par Taboo-XX, 23 mai 2012 - 01:57 .

[Fingertrip]

HTL - Can't reason with stupidity. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Just ignore them. They're a vocal minority.

[Ariq]

julio77777 wrote...

Actually anyone saying "Iwill never buy another BW product ever if you don't change the endings" lose credibility in my eyes.
You can say you won't be purchasing any future DLC or mass effect product, since you are disappointed with the franchise, but penalising an eventual good product, that has nothing to do with ME, out of spite is immature to say it politely.

Nope. Sorry, they have to earn most people's money. You know, the way everyone else does in any sort of business. They want to create games that appeal to no audience but themselves, that's their right, but they have no claim to my money. It's their job to sell me on their game. DA:O and ME1/2 were good enough to sell me on ME3 without hesitation. Future purchases though will take the ME3 debacle into account, and if the EC does a poor job of addressing those problems...well. They'll have a long way to go to get me to buy their next game, whatever franchise it may be in.

[sanadawarrior]

julio77777 wrote...

wantedman dan wrote...

So basically, you're, in a roundabout and "polite" way, condemning anyone that disagrees with your opinion as being "immature" and without credibility.

Yeah, polite.

Actually no I don't, you must have misunderstood, or misread me.

I'm saying I find the whole "I'm threatening you to not purchase any of your products, no matter how good they are, if you don't change the endings I didn't like" attitude immature, and making that kind of threat is not credible *in my eyes*.

If you want to make the *wallet* threat make it to future ME products it's much more credible, but stop with the extremes.

So if I had a black and decker toaster oven that I was unhappy with I chose not to buy a coffee maker from them you would consider me immature?

[wantedman dan]

julio77777 wrote...

wantedman dan wrote...

So basically, you're, in a roundabout and "polite" way, condemning anyone that disagrees with your opinion as being "immature" and without credibility.

Yeah, polite.

Actually no I don't, you must have misunderstood, or misread me.

I'm saying I find the whole "I'm threatening you to not purchase any of your products, no matter how good they are, if you don't change the endings I didn't like" attitude immature, and making that kind of threat is not credible *in my eyes*.

If you want to make the *wallet* threat make it to future ME products it's much more credible, but stop with the extremes.

Must've. Yeah. Great explanation. 

The only "extreme" here would be saying "ME3 RUINED ALL OF GAMING FOR ME SO I WON'T BUY ANYTHING ELSE!!11!1" Not trusting a singular corporation to create a new game, satisfactorily, is not such an extreme.

[julio77777]

sanadawarrior wrote...

I would think buying products from a
company that you dont like would make you immature, or at least stupid
but thats just me. Also I find it funny that you say we would be
penalizing a future product of Bioware's as if the natural order of
things was for us to just hand over our money and not doing that was
somehow "punishing" them. Did I punish Bioware when I chose not to buy
Jade Empire when it first came out? Are 8 billion people punishing
Bioware everytime one of their games release?

First it isn't about liking or disliking BW... This is a company there is no sentiment there.

Futhermore I never said anything about punishing BW, but punishing a good product.
Choosing not to buy a good game that you know you would enjoy playing
just because it's made by a company that disappointed you at some point,
seriously you don't see the problem here ?

sanadawarrior wrote...

So if I had a black and decker toaster oven that I was unhappy with I chose not to buy a coffee maker from them you would consider me immature?

No but I would find you immature if threatened them to not buy further product if they didn't change whatever you were unhappy with.

[wantedman dan]

julio77777 wrote...

No but I would find you immature if threatened them to not buy further product if they didn't change whatever you were unhappy with.

So basically consumers have zero rights in your world. That's what you're telling me.

[felipejiraya]

HTL is the Al Qaeda of ME fans.

[julio77777]

wantedman dan wrote...

Must've. Yeah. Great explanation. 

The only "extreme" here would be saying "ME3 RUINED ALL OF GAMING FOR ME SO I WON'T BUY ANYTHING ELSE!!11!1" Not trusting a singular corporation to create a new game, satisfactorily, is not such an extreme.

Raah you just don't seem to understand, if you think BW cannot make another good game ever (that seems to be what you say), then just stop buying BW products, there is nothing wrong or immature about that (at least i don't think so).

However, refusing to buy a product you would consider good (assuming they make a good non ME game in the future), just because they didn't change an ending and that disappointed you is immature IMO.

wantedman dan wrote...

So basically consumers have zero rights in your world. That's what you're telling me.

They have the right to be refunded if they're unhappy with a product not to demand irrealistic changes.

Modifié par julio77777, 23 mai 2012 - 02:16 .

[wantedman dan]

julio77777 wrote...

wantedman dan wrote...

Must've. Yeah. Great explanation. 

The only "extreme" here would be saying "ME3 RUINED ALL OF GAMING FOR ME SO I WON'T BUY ANYTHING ELSE!!11!1" Not trusting a singular corporation to create a new game, satisfactorily, is not such an extreme.

Raah you just don't seem to understand, if you think BW cannot make another good game ever (that seems to be what you say), then just stop buying BW products, there is nothing wrong or immature about that (at least i don't think so).

However, refusing to buy a product you would consider good (assuming they make a good non ME game in the future), just because they didn't change an ending and that disappointed you is immature IMO.

Maybe you should say what you mean or mean what you say. That's an important differentiation you're making in that post that you had yet to make in your prior posts.

Edit: As for "demanding" changes. You really don't think the consumer has any rights, do you?

Modifié par wantedman dan, 23 mai 2012 - 02:20 .

[chemiclord]

The only thing that bothers me is that someone thought making this "threat" was actually going to accomplish something.

You aren't going to buy anything if ME3's ending isn't changed? Great. Then DON'T. That is what's gonna get their attention, not some whiny ultimatum.

[julio77777]

wantedman dan wrote...

Maybe you should say what you mean or mean what you say. That's an important differentiation you're making in that post that you had yet to make in your prior posts.

Edit: As for "demanding" changes. You really don't think the consumer has any rights, do you?

Sorry I thought this was evident in my previous posts and didn't have to explain, obviously I was wrong

As for the consumer rights I told you the rights I thought he had, you obviously disagree, so let's leave it at that. (However I do believe that making suggestions on how to improve the games is a good thing).

Modifié par julio77777, 23 mai 2012 - 02:42 .

[devSin]

So apparently this was a single postcard sent from some random person as part of a coordinated effort to get people to send their letters and postcards to BioWare on a single date.

What a waste of my time. I'm going back to Diablo III.

Modifié par devSin, 23 mai 2012 - 02:29 .

[dreamgazer]

If you start treating game makers like the producers of appliances, then you're going to start really getting hollow, perfunctory machines like those.

These are still creative individuals, folks, and treating their output like that will not net you the "product" you want.

[Volc19]

robertm2 wrote...

I really think this was the best move for everyone

That's hilarious.

The EC's main driving point is that it'll get those angry with the ending(singular) to be contented or even happy with the outcomes. It satisfies pro-enders by changing little, and it keeps all that 'artistic integrity' intact, but it doesn't cater to the wants and needs of the key demographic, the anti-enders. We never asked for clarification, we asked for change and quality.

So, the only ones that would care for an ending-changing DLC are the only ones that won't enjoy it. Best. Move. For. Everyone.

[Bill Casey]

julio77777 wrote...

Actually anyone saying "Iwill never buy another BW product ever if you don't change the endings" lose credibility in my eyes.
You can say you won't be purchasing any future DLC or mass effect product, since you are disappointed with the franchise, but penalising an eventual good product, that has nothing to do with ME, out of spite is immature to say it politely.
I was disappointed with ME3 endings, I moved on, I don't hold irrealistic hopes for EC.
And I will be purchasing future BW products if they're good, any sensible person would. But I will most likely not pre-order them.
I think it's time for people to be reasonnable about this whole thing...

If IT is correct, I absolutely loved the ending, but I'll bite...

The eventual good product will lead to "eventual good product 2", and now you're really invested in it, and then "eventual good product 3" rolls around, and of course you have to buy it because you're really invested in everything now and you want to know how it ends...

Maybe these people don't want to potentially repeat history...
Obviously they do care a crapload, or they wouldn't have even bothered saying where they stood...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 23 mai 2012 - 02:47 .

[robertm2]

Volc19 wrote...

robertm2 wrote...

I really think this was the best move for everyone

That's hilarious.

The EC's main driving point is that it'll get those angry with the ending(singular) to be contented or even happy with the outcomes. It satisfies pro-enders by changing little, and it keeps all that 'artistic integrity' intact, but it doesn't cater to the wants and needs of the key demographic, the anti-enders. We never asked for clarification, we asked for change and quality.

So, the only ones that would care for an ending-changing DLC are the only ones that won't enjoy it. Best. Move. For. Everyone.

i seriously doubt that they would ever completely change the ending top to bottom. so lets just say its the best for everyone within reason because demanding any game company completely change the product they made is absurd. they may add on to it but the chances of them retconning the whole thing are pretty much zero. Not only does this put every developer in a crap position because they might be subjected to the same thing but it makes developers unhappy. do you really think they are going to care what fans want after they are forced to go back and redo something they worked really hard on because people didnt like it?

[eddieoctane]

Jenonax wrote...

And they think this will help how?

Seriously, you cannot threaten to walk out on Bioware. As much as they don't want to admit it, HTL is not a lot of people. How big are they, 3 or 4 thousand last I heard, but I could be wrong. They are a drop in the ocean compared to the people who would be perfectly happy with explanation of the choices and proper closure with your squad.

They paint everyone who is unhappy with the ending in a very bad light. Bravo.

Most upset people never say anything and simply walk away. I don't remember the figure, but I think it's something like only 1 person will complain for every 10 that are dissatisfied. So just saying that 3-4K people mean nothing isn't really an accurate statement.

I personally am waiting to see what the EC does. It's unlikely but still possible that the EC will give the ending the heroic feel it currently lacks. If so, I'll consider future BioWare purchases. If the EC does nothing for me, I'll wash my hands of the company and the core staff.

[DeadpoolBub]

The endings can actually be good if given some clarity. The link in my signature gives some really nice endings to the characters & whatnot. I'd be fine if Bioware gave us something similar to what's in the link.

[alsonamedbort]

Volc19 wrote...

I never asked for clarification, I asked for change

FIFY

[Saint Op]

So it was a splinter group from a group made of other groups that splintered from the forum that has no idea what the people who say they represent them are doing....
Wowzers HTL is Cerberus....

[eddieoctane]

Saint Op wrote...

So it was a splinter group from a group made of other groups that splintered from the forum that has no idea what the people who say they represent them are doing....
Wowzers HTL is Cerberus....

And Priestly wants to engage in an open dialog with them. Maybe he really is TIM.

[M920CAIN]

robertm2 wrote...

 So apparantly the people over at hold the line sent material Chris Priestly saying that they wont except the extended cut and will desert bioware if they dont do new endings instead. He was not sure if this was from the whole organization or just from one person but i really have to ask what dont these people get? They have already said that they will not change the endings only clarify them and I really think this was the best move for everyone because pro-enders are happy, developers dont lose their "artistic integrity" and retakers get clarification. Does whoever sent this honestly think that these threats are going to change what bioware is already knee deep in the process of? I mean they complained, made polls, made a website, donated to charity and bioware finally did something about it and they still want to keep on with this. I have to ask are there any retakers who are ashamed at this behavior? Because at this point it has gone from understandable anger over a subpar ending to people who think that they can control every facet of a developer if they whine and threaten enough. If you would like to see the tweet it is a two part tweet near the top of Chris Priestly's twitter page.

https://twitter.com/#!/BioEvilChris

Hiring a krogan mercenary to headbutt the OP until he believes! sry op, we have a right to be "entitled brats" like you have a right to moan with this thread.

[G Kevin]

I believe this would be relevant information here for anyone who has not been informed yet.

http://www.holdtheli...-incident.1916/ 

Modifié par G Kevin, 23 mai 2012 - 03:50 .