232 réponses à ce sujet

[Oransel]

I support those guys and share their intentions. I am glad there are not only moderates here, but people ready to take some action. Seriously, we have rights to tell them that and as for me personally, I won't accept stupid clarification and closure. Only new endings which represent my Shepard.

[DukeOfNukes]

How is asking a company to stop making ****ty products either "a threat" or "wrong"??? If I buy a Westinghouse TV, it breaks shortly after purchasing it (because, that's what they do), and they refuse to fix it, and instead offer to send you a longer power cable, should I not be allowed to comment? Should I not be allowed to send them an e-mail saying "You're being rotten. Either fix this, or I'm taking my business elsewhere."

Without knowing the details of what the postcard said...there's no way of knowing if "threats" were made or not. We have Priestly saying he got a letter from someone saying they wouldn't buy their games anymore if they didn't fix the ending. I'm sure he did...but that doesn't really seem wrong to me.

[Tazzmission]

DukeOfNukes wrote...

How is asking a company to stop making ****ty products either "a threat" or "wrong"??? If I buy a Westinghouse TV, it breaks shortly after purchasing it (because, that's what they do), and they refuse to fix it, and instead offer to send you a longer power cable, should I not be allowed to comment? Should I not be allowed to send them an e-mail saying "You're being rotten. Either fix this, or I'm taking my business elsewhere."

Without knowing the details of what the postcard said...there's no way of knowing if "threats" were made or not. We have Priestly saying he got a letter from someone saying they wouldn't buy their games anymore if they didn't fix the ending. I'm sure he did...but that doesn't really seem wrong to me.

ever stop to think that maybe chris didnt want to read the actual threat but tweeted something more non disgusting?

can you honestly say there hasnt been some bizzare nuttball coments?

[robertm2]

DukeOfNukes wrote...

How is asking a company to stop making ****ty products either "a threat" or "wrong"??? If I buy a Westinghouse TV, it breaks shortly after purchasing it (because, that's what they do), and they refuse to fix it, and instead offer to send you a longer power cable, should I not be allowed to comment? Should I not be allowed to send them an e-mail saying "You're being rotten. Either fix this, or I'm taking my business elsewhere."

Without knowing the details of what the postcard said...there's no way of knowing if "threats" were made or not. We have Priestly saying he got a letter from someone saying they wouldn't buy their games anymore if they didn't fix the ending. I'm sure he did...but that doesn't really seem wrong to me.

yet another terrible analogy. me3 may not be as good as people wanted( i know i expected it to be better) but it is not broken. If you put the game in and it wouldnt read or something of that nature then your analogy would fit but the game works. Its just not as good as you wanted it to be. People really are making some of the worst analogys today.

[DukeOfNukes]

I'm sure there have...we see a lot of those on these forums. Even IF the postcard said they were going to pull his eyes out with a spoon and feed them to their children...why did he feel the need to say anything? The only reason he should consider this a "threat" is if someone was making SPECIFIC threats...such as "I know you live at 12345 S Tabernacky lane, and if you don't fix the ending, I'll rape your wife"...THAT is a threat.

Saying "I'm gonna stop buying your games if you don't make me happy" isn't.

[Torrible]

Look at this another way, what if the extreme IT supporters threatened to boycott future Bioware products unless they made IT true (saying that only IT can save the ending) ? What if Bioware gave in and made IT canon despite not having previously planned for it? Would it be fair to fans who expected or wanted another type of ending? Would those extreme IT supporters be right in exercising their 'consumer rights'?

Modifié par Torrible, 23 mai 2012 - 05:37 .

[Tazzmission]

DukeOfNukes wrote...

I'm sure there have...we see a lot of those on these forums. Even IF the postcard said they were going to pull his eyes out with a spoon and feed them to their children...why did he feel the need to say anything? The only reason he should consider this a "threat" is if someone was making SPECIFIC threats...such as "I know you live at 12345 S Tabernacky lane, and if you don't fix the ending, I'll rape your wife"...THAT is a threat.

Saying "I'm gonna stop buying your games if you don't make me happy" isn't.

well dude for all we know it could be a threat. i mean look at how people were acting the last 3 months. heck i even made a me3 e3 thread yesterday and a poster came in saying ill have eggs ready to throw at them



chris may have stated the whoe not buying thing to keep the real comment hush hush depending on how severe it is

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Torrible wrote...

Look at this another way, what if the extreme IT supporters threatened to boycott future Bioware products unless they made IT true (saying that only IT can save the ending) ? What if Bioware gave in and made IT canon despite not having previously planned for it? Would it be fair to fans who expected or wanted another type of ending? Would those extreme IT supporters be right in exercising their 'consumer rights'?

Forcing a canon isn't what most of RTM want, and I haven't seen anyone in favor of the IT demanding it be forced upon everyone.

[DukeOfNukes]

robertm2 wrote...
yet another terrible analogy. me3 may not be as good as people wanted( i know i expected it to be better) but it is not broken. If you put the game in and it wouldnt read or something of that nature then your analogy would fit but the game works. Its just not as good as you wanted it to be. People really are making some of the worst analogys today.

Wasn't meant to be a direct analogy of the product, was meant to show customer "entitlement".

Whoever wrote this clearly felt like BioWare had cheated them. Personally, I don't feel that way...I saw the direction it was headed after ME2 came out, and while I don't like a ton of things about ME3, I wasn't expecting anything great.

He/she feels it's broken. As a consumer, they have every right to express dissatisfaction...and to let the corporation know they will take their business elsewhere. Try working in retail...It's a regular occurance that you get called a liar, stupid, racist, etc.

[robertm2]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Torrible wrote...

Look at this another way, what if the extreme IT supporters threatened to boycott future Bioware products unless they made IT true (saying that only IT can save the ending) ? What if Bioware gave in and made IT canon despite not having previously planned for it? Would it be fair to fans who expected or wanted another type of ending? Would those extreme IT supporters be right in exercising their 'consumer rights'?

Forcing a canon isn't what most of RTM want, and I haven't seen anyone in favor of the IT demanding it be forced upon everyone.

its the same thing though. Most super IT supporters are not doing it because it is absurd and unfair to people who dont like it, and i think everyone can agree that adding closure and more to the ending is good all around but,  the ones who want the ending completely changed are trying to force something on people so why is that any different? 

[bahamutomega]

Torrible wrote...

 Nothing wrong with boycotting a company's products. Technically, there must be thousands of companies I'm boycotting right now. What crosses the line is using what is a basic consumer right as a threat to coerce a company into tweaking a product to your personal satisfaction. If it was any other fanbase and game unconnected to you, you'll be calling their actions arrogant and self-entitled. However, since you (the retakers) are the ones directly affected by the ending and humans are by nature egoists, you see nothing wrong with such actions.

excuse me - i'm a retaker.  i do not support these actions.  the actions of these individuals are arrogant and self-entitled.  the actions of these individuals are crass and uncalled for.

don't stereotype people - it only shows your individual ignorance.

[Ulous]

HTL? Never heard of them......... next?

[DukeOfNukes]

Torrible wrote...

Look at this another way, what if the extreme IT supporters threatened to boycott future Bioware products unless they made IT true (saying that only IT can save the ending) ? What if Bioware gave in and made IT canon despite not having previously planned for it? Would it be fair to fans who expected or wanted another type of ending? Would those extreme IT supporters be right in exercising their 'consumer rights'?

They have the right to do that. If I, as a consumer, say "I will not buy another BioWare game unless they make all of them First Person Shooters"...it's my right. It's stupid, and best left ignored, but his reaction should be "ok, have fun buying Activision games then."

That being said, Priestly is most likely just venting. It's not really a big deal...I would ignore him and move on, but we have people in here encouraging him.

[Torrible]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Torrible wrote...

Look at this another way, what if the extreme IT supporters threatened to boycott future Bioware products unless they made IT true (saying that only IT can save the ending) ? What if Bioware gave in and made IT canon despite not having previously planned for it? Would it be fair to fans who expected or wanted another type of ending? Would those extreme IT supporters be right in exercising their 'consumer rights'?

Forcing a canon isn't what most of RTM want, and I haven't seen anyone in favor of the IT demanding it be forced upon everyone.

You see the parallel, don't you? Demanding the ending to be rewritten, catalyst to be removed despite what other fans may think. Despite what Bioware had promised earlier, many people would be satisfied with a reunification with squadmates/LI, the current ending with plotholes explained or a more fleshed out ending (for pro-enders) . None of these are incompatible with the EC (according to Bioware) so many fans would be happy (assuming their needs are met) even if the ending isn't completely rewritten. 

[julio77777]

DukeOfNukes wrote...

They have the right to do that. If I, as a consumer, say "I will not buy another BioWare game unless they make all of them First Person Shooters"...it's my right. It's stupid, and best left ignored, but his reaction should be "ok, have fun buying Activision games then."

That being said, Priestly is most likely just venting. It's not really a big deal...I would ignore him and move on, but we have people in here encouraging him.

That's exactly what he did more or less, he just wondered if that was the position of the entire HTL movement or not, and it seems it isn't.

[Torrible]

bahamutomega wrote...

Torrible wrote...

 Nothing wrong with boycotting a company's products. Technically, there must be thousands of companies I'm boycotting right now. What crosses the line is using what is a basic consumer right as a threat to coerce a company into tweaking a product to your personal satisfaction. If it was any other fanbase and game unconnected to you, you'll be calling their actions arrogant and self-entitled. However, since you (the retakers) are the ones directly affected by the ending and humans are by nature egoists, you see nothing wrong with such actions.

excuse me - i'm a retaker.  i do not support these actions.  the actions of these individuals are arrogant and self-entitled.  the actions of these individuals are crass and uncalled for.

don't stereotype people - it only shows your individual ignorance.

No need to get upset. I agree I should have used the phrase 'specific group of retakers who are sending materials to Chris Priestly' instead of 'retakers'. 

[robertm2]

Ulous wrote...

HTL? Never heard of them......... next?

Its short for hold the line. Apparantly its not just a clever one liner there's a whole website with almost 1000 members. What ever will bioware do if they all never buy another bioware game again. But they denied that it was actually them on the website.

Modifié par robertm2, 23 mai 2012 - 05:59 .

[ticklefist]

The thing about folks like Torrible isn't so much that they like the ending. Surely he isn't that stupid. He just doesn't want people on the internet to think he's a crybaby. He's being tough where it counts.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Torrible wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Torrible wrote...

Look at this another way, what if the extreme IT supporters threatened to boycott future Bioware products unless they made IT true (saying that only IT can save the ending) ? What if Bioware gave in and made IT canon despite not having previously planned for it? Would it be fair to fans who expected or wanted another type of ending? Would those extreme IT supporters be right in exercising their 'consumer rights'?

Forcing a canon isn't what most of RTM want, and I haven't seen anyone in favor of the IT demanding it be forced upon everyone.

You see the parallel, don't you? Demanding the ending to be rewritten, catalyst to be removed despite what other fans may think. Despite what Bioware had promised earlier, many people would be satisfied with a reunification with squadmates/LI, the current ending with plotholes explained or a more fleshed out ending (for pro-enders) . None of these are incompatible with the EC (according to Bioware) so many fans would be happy (assuming their needs are met) even if the ending isn't completely rewritten. 

I suppose there is a parallel; however demanding horribly contrived lazy writting ( objectively)  be replaced  with writting that doesn't require the most litteral  use deus ex machina [God from the machine]  and writting up to snuff with the rest of the game,possibly using one of the many possibly Chekhov's guns present in ME doesn't seem like a horrible demand.

But I suppose people have the right to like terrible terrible things (once again objectively).

Modifié par Humanoid_Typhoon, 23 mai 2012 - 06:19 .

[Torrible]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Torrible wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Torrible wrote...

Look at this another way, what if the extreme IT supporters threatened to boycott future Bioware products unless they made IT true (saying that only IT can save the ending) ? What if Bioware gave in and made IT canon despite not having previously planned for it? Would it be fair to fans who expected or wanted another type of ending? Would those extreme IT supporters be right in exercising their 'consumer rights'?

Forcing a canon isn't what most of RTM want, and I haven't seen anyone in favor of the IT demanding it be forced upon everyone.

You see the parallel, don't you? Demanding the ending to be rewritten, catalyst to be removed despite what other fans may think. Despite what Bioware had promised earlier, many people would be satisfied with a reunification with squadmates/LI, the current ending with plotholes explained or a more fleshed out ending (for pro-enders) . None of these are incompatible with the EC (according to Bioware) so many fans would be happy (assuming their needs are met) even if the ending isn't completely rewritten. 

I suppose there is a parallel; however demanding horribly contrived lazy writting ( objectively) with writting that doesn't require the most litteral  use deus ex machina [God from the machine] doesn't seem like a horrible demand.

But I suppose people have the right to like terrible terrible things (once again objectively).

It wasn't a horrible demand, just unnecessary and selfish.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Torrible wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Torrible wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Torrible wrote...

Look at this another way, what if the extreme IT supporters threatened to boycott future Bioware products unless they made IT true (saying that only IT can save the ending) ? What if Bioware gave in and made IT canon despite not having previously planned for it? Would it be fair to fans who expected or wanted another type of ending? Would those extreme IT supporters be right in exercising their 'consumer rights'?

Forcing a canon isn't what most of RTM want, and I haven't seen anyone in favor of the IT demanding it be forced upon everyone.

You see the parallel, don't you? Demanding the ending to be rewritten, catalyst to be removed despite what other fans may think. Despite what Bioware had promised earlier, many people would be satisfied with a reunification with squadmates/LI, the current ending with plotholes explained or a more fleshed out ending (for pro-enders) . None of these are incompatible with the EC (according to Bioware) so many fans would be happy (assuming their needs are met) even if the ending isn't completely rewritten. 

 I suppose there is a parallel; however demanding horribly contrived lazy writting ( objectively)  be replaced  with writting that doesn't require the most litteral  use deus ex machina [God from the machine]  and writting up to snuff with the rest of the game,possibly using one of the many possibly Chekhov's guns present in ME doesn't seem like a horrible demand. 

But I suppose people have the right to like terrible terrible things (once again objectively).

It wasn't a horrible demand, just unnecessary and selfish.

Much like demanding all children go to school...oh wait.

Also I just realized I didn't finish that statement at all so reread this post because I fixed it.

Modifié par Humanoid_Typhoon, 23 mai 2012 - 06:21 .

[Raynulf]

wantedman dan wrote...

Caddywamps wrote...

1.  Anyone who knows anyone that takes him or herself seriously as any kind of artist knows that... delivering the ultimatum of "change your art or I'll leave" will only end with the artist showing him or her the door.  You don't have to like what said artist does, but the artist does what the artist feels is right.  Threats nor ultimatums convince anyone, but they might stir the courage to make a stand against them.

I'm only going to touch this part of your rant because I couldn't care less about the rest of them.

Anyone who knows anything knows the difference between commissioned art and personal art. Mass Effect 3, if it is art, is commissioned. 

As someone not only married to a professional artist, but with a number in both my family and hers: Yes.

There is art you make for you. There is art you make to sell. They are not the same.

And in both cases: If the person creating it wants to be taken seriously as an artist, they must accept the fact that their work will be criticised - and most of it won't be 'constructive'.

ME3 was not 'commissioned' persay - but it was advertised and sold sight-unseen (i.e. preorder) to a lot of people. And as has been discussed previously over the months since release, there are some disturbing (and for many, unsatisfying) differences between the advertisement and the product.

Thus:
- BioWare are not obliged to fix it
but
- They probably should anyway, if they want to continue to sell to their established market

If the new EA corporate priory is that FPS Crowd >> RPG Crowd, and that BioWare should make games to suit, then that is pretty much that.

[M0keys]

i don't understand

chris priestly created these topics on the htl forums.. 3 of them. he was asking for these opinions.

what sort of bizarre mindgame is he playing at by making these statements when the poll he started doesn't even have "we're abandoning you no matter what" as the majority opinion?