232 réponses à ce sujet

[dsl08002]

But after two months in the market and after many polls and at least two officials surveys the result speaks for itself people want a new ending or at least say that the original ending is terrible. by simply ignore that is hurting the franchise and ME3.

[M0keys]

M0keys wrote...

i don't understand

chris priestly created these topics on the htl forums.. 3 of them. he was asking for these opinions.

what sort of bizarre mindgame is he playing at by making these statements when the poll he started doesn't even have "we're abandoning you no matter what" as the majority opinion?

sorry, reposting this because no one ever reads what's at the bottom of a page

[Peranor]

What's all the fuzz about?
I don't see it as a threat per se. More like a statement.

Basically what they are saying is that "If you release a product we're not satisfied with we're not going to buy products from you in the future" And it is in their right to do so.
And letting a developer/company know at least know why you won't continue buy their products is only fair. Not a threat.
Or should people feel obligated to continue buying products they don't really like out of pity for the company? Or just to support he people who does like the products?

Personally I won't abandon BioWare no matter how the EC turns out. I will probably refrain from pre-orders and look at future games with a more sceptical eye. But I certainly won't abandon them.
But I don't have a problem with the people choosing to do so either. For whater reason it is entirely in their rights to choose what to spend their money on and why.

Modifié par anorling, 23 mai 2012 - 06:31 .

[M Hedonist]

How are these threats? They're just saying what many are already thinking. I'm gonna abandon them if EC turns out to be disappointing, too. What, am I a bad person for that? Of course not, I have every right to do so. I don't even know why I shouldn't be allowed to. This has nothing to do with disrespect, either. Bioware's quality standards have sunk considerably beginning with DA II and I don't see any reason to support them anymore unless EC is suprisingly good. And the best way to achieve that would be to add new ending or change the endings.

I was actually pretty sure OP was trolling, but everybody's taking him serious.

robertm2 wrote...

They have already said that they will not change the endings only clarify them and I really think this was the best move for everyone because pro-enders are happy, developers dont lose their "artistic integrity" and retakers get clarification.

Especially this seems to be intentionally ignorant and just asking for people to get angry. Are my troll senses off or are people in here being gullible?

Modifié par Sauruz, 23 mai 2012 - 06:43 .

[ZackG312]

HTL has already dismissed this note and are upset too.

Get over it

[Doctor Uburian]

This is the pool created by Priestly on HTL, and it's results:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What will you do with Mass Effect 3 once the Extended Cut is out

This poll will close on May 23, 2012 at 10:46 PM.

I will continue to play ME3, both Single Play and multiplay looking forward to new DLC.
86 vote(s) 27.1%

I'll play ME3 multiplay, but I am done with the Single Play game. Period.
12 vote(s) 3.8%

I don't play multiplay, but I might play more single play DLC if it looks good.
167 vote(s) 52.7%

Sorry, you messed up too badly. I'm done with Mass Effect.
52 vote(s) 16.4%

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So, the 52.7% will continue to play the game as long as the EC is good enough, aka no fatalistic ending.

Modifié par Doctor Uburian, 23 mai 2012 - 06:54 .

[robertm2]

Sauruz wrote...

How are these threats? They're just saying what many are already thinking. I'm gonna abandon them if EC turns out to be disappointing, too. What, am I a bad person for that? Of course not, I have every right to do so. I don't even know why I shouldn't be allowed to. This has nothing to do with disrespect, either. Bioware's quality standards have sunk considerably beginning with DA II and I don't see any reason to support them anymore unless EC is suprisingly good. And the best way to achieve that would be to add new ending or change the endings.

I was actually pretty sure OP was trolling, but everybody's taking him serious.

robertm2 wrote...

They have already said that they will not change the endings only clarify them and I really think this was the best move for everyone because pro-enders are happy, developers dont lose their "artistic integrity" and retakers get clarification.

Especially this seems to be intentionally ignorant and just asking for people to get angry. Are my troll senses off or are people in here being gullible?

your troll sense are way off. i was simply reporting a tweet that chris priestly posted. I still stand by the fact that what bioware is doing is the best move within reason. Completely changing the ending would make people alot of people angry and it would take alot of time and money. Adding clarifiaction keeps the ending and gives what alot of retakers claim is all they wanted in the first place. Bsn has alot of trolls ( and im guessing your one of them) so seeing as your the only person who has accused me of this i would say its safe to assume that part you qouted just makes you angry because you dont agree with it. Dont try to claim anyone who doesnt take offense to my statements or doesnt agree with you lacks intelligence all undercover like.

[Doctor Uburian]

robertm2 wrote...

Sauruz wrote...

How are these threats? They're just saying what many are already thinking. I'm gonna abandon them if EC turns out to be disappointing, too. What, am I a bad person for that? Of course not, I have every right to do so. I don't even know why I shouldn't be allowed to. This has nothing to do with disrespect, either. Bioware's quality standards have sunk considerably beginning with DA II and I don't see any reason to support them anymore unless EC is suprisingly good. And the best way to achieve that would be to add new ending or change the endings.

I was actually pretty sure OP was trolling, but everybody's taking him serious.

robertm2 wrote...

They have already said that they will not change the endings only clarify them and I really think this was the best move for everyone because pro-enders are happy, developers dont lose their "artistic integrity" and retakers get clarification.

Especially this seems to be intentionally ignorant and just asking for people to get angry. Are my troll senses off or are people in here being gullible?

your troll sense are way off. i was simply reporting a tweet that chris priestly posted. I still stand by the fact that what bioware is doing is the best move within reason. Completely changing the ending would make people alot of people angry and it would take alot of time and money. Adding clarifiaction keeps the ending and gives what alot of retakers claim is all they wanted in the first place. Bsn has alot of trolls ( and im guessing your one of them) so seeing as your the only person who has accused me of this i would say its safe to assume that part you qouted just makes you angry because you dont agree with it. Dont try to claim anyone who doesnt take offense to my statements or doesnt agree with you lacks intelligence all undercover like.

Why everyone believes that those who don't like the endings want the actual endings being replaced by new ones?
We don't actually want to replace, we want to add new, happy, endings to the game.

That should make both parts happy. 

Modifié par Doctor Uburian, 23 mai 2012 - 07:08 .

[CARL_DF90]

It doesn't matter if the message is from the HTL group or just a few people. The current endings are garbage and anything added to them that does not include a full rewrite will just be throwing good writing after bad. The so-called "pro-enders" are either newbies who know next to nothing about the universe and thus cannot grasp how much of an atrocity the endings are to the series, or are on EA's payroll to troll the forums.

[BunBun299]

I think it was disingenuous of them to try to pass their message off as representing the whole movement. However, I do agree with it. No amount of clarification can save the existing ending. It broken beyond repair. Unless clarification means, yeah it was all a dream, now here's the real ending. Simply trying to explain what I understood just fine the first time around will lose them my business.

[RoamerZA]

chemiclord wrote...

RoamerZA wrote...

Look guys and girls ... The EC is going to be the last chance to save the franchise for many of us. Look at any other threads and people are saying that they have such low expectations already.

So what do we do? Do we wait for BW to spend time, money and resources on an EC that will not satisfy the hard core fanbase (aka the DLC buyers), or do we tell them now they seriously screwed up the ending and they need to change it?

Maybe HTL could be more tactful, but their sentiment is a natural consumer response .... if you start making substandard products we'll stop buying. To do otherwise would be silly

I have spent a fortune on ME over the last 5 years. I am not a member of HTL, but that will stop if after the EC the ending is still ... stupid, and let them bask in their BS artistic integrity. I think the last 10 minutes is really bad art, and I don't buy bad art!

If I was a betting man, I'd put money on looking back to the people up in arms about the ending of the leaked script, and then comparing those names to the more vocal complainers of the ending we got that you'd find a lot of the same names.

These people had decided long ago that they were going to hate ANYTHING Bioware did to end the series.  They had already decided the ending sucked before they even got the physical game (that they no doubt waited in line for at midnight).  They have already decided the EC is going to suck.  Even if Bioware HAD said, "alright, we're gonna completely scrap the ending," they would STILL hate the end result.

There is no reasoning with such people, and there is no point even TRYING to cater to them.

I said to my wife a week before ME3 came out, that BW would really have to screw this up for ME3 not to be game of the year ... If you had told me 3 months later, after buying all the DLC for ME2, the books and the CE ME3, I am on the verge of boycotting ME forever I would have taken your bet at that point, and you would have won.
BUT the ME fanboys, the guys who used to give BW money for anything ME related, are quite rightly ticked because the ending was illogical, badly written and executed, and just did not play like the 100+ hours before it.

All BW had to do is bring it home in those last 10 minutes. Nothing fancy. Just do what you had been doing for the previous hours and hours of gameplay. Do a almighty battle ala ME2's Suicide Mission. Seriously, isn't that what we were all expecting?
They went all artistic on us, and then insinuated they have the right to tell me how the game where "I chose the ending", ends; and I personally feel was told I was stupid because I did not get their A,B, C ending! I did get it. It was just plain bad. It ticks me off more they can not see that.

[Necrotron]

RoamerZA wrote...
I said to my wife a week before ME3 came out, that BW would really have to screw this up for ME3 not to be game of the year ... If you had told me 3 months later, after buying all the DLC for ME2, the books and the CE ME3, I am on the verge of boycotting ME forever I would have taken your bet at that point, and you would have won.
BUT the ME fanboys, the guys who used to give BW money for anything ME related, are quite rightly ticked because the ending was illogical, badly written and executed, and just did not play like the 100+ hours before it.

All BW had to do is bring it home in those last 10 minutes. Nothing fancy. Just do what you had been doing for the previous hours and hours of gameplay. Do a almighty battle ala ME2's Suicide Mission. Seriously, isn't that what we were all expecting?
They went all artistic on us, and then insinuated they have the right to tell me how the game where "I chose the ending", ends; and I personally feel was told I was stupid because I did not get their A,B, C ending! I did get it. It was just plain bad. It ticks me off more they can not see that.

I wouldn't use such wording, but all good points.

[matt-bassist]

its really interesting that he asked that question... it means at the very least IT has piqued their interest a bit...

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

robertm2 wrote...

Sauruz wrote...

How are these threats? They're just saying what many are already thinking. I'm gonna abandon them if EC turns out to be disappointing, too. What, am I a bad person for that? Of course not, I have every right to do so. I don't even know why I shouldn't be allowed to. This has nothing to do with disrespect, either. Bioware's quality standards have sunk considerably beginning with DA II and I don't see any reason to support them anymore unless EC is suprisingly good. And the best way to achieve that would be to add new ending or change the endings.

I was actually pretty sure OP was trolling, but everybody's taking him serious.

robertm2 wrote...

They have already said that they will not change the endings only clarify them and I really think this was the best move for everyone because pro-enders are happy, developers dont lose their "artistic integrity" and retakers get clarification.

Especially this seems to be intentionally ignorant and just asking for people to get angry. Are my troll senses off or are people in here being gullible?

your troll sense are way off. i was simply reporting a tweet that chris priestly posted. I still stand by the fact that what bioware is doing is the best move within reason. Completely changing the ending would make people alot of people angry and it would take alot of time and money. Adding clarifiaction keeps the ending and gives what alot of retakers claim is all they wanted in the first place. Bsn has alot of trolls ( and im guessing your one of them) so seeing as your the only person who has accused me of this i would say its safe to assume that part you qouted just makes you angry because you dont agree with it. Dont try to claim anyone who doesnt take offense to my statements or doesnt agree with you lacks intelligence all undercover like.

The biggest problem with only adding clarifiction is that 90% of the problems with the ending stem from the starkid, as far as  many are concerned as long as he is there the ending will never be satisfactory because his role makes everything every reaper ever said moot.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Bathaius wrote...

RoamerZA wrote...
I said to my wife a week before ME3 came out, that BW would really have to screw this up for ME3 not to be game of the year ... If you had told me 3 months later, after buying all the DLC for ME2, the books and the CE ME3, I am on the verge of boycotting ME forever I would have taken your bet at that point, and you would have won.
BUT the ME fanboys, the guys who used to give BW money for anything ME related, are quite rightly ticked because the ending was illogical, badly written and executed, and just did not play like the 100+ hours before it.

All BW had to do is bring it home in those last 10 minutes. Nothing fancy. Just do what you had been doing for the previous hours and hours of gameplay. Do a almighty battle ala ME2's Suicide Mission. Seriously, isn't that what we were all expecting?
They went all artistic on us, and then insinuated they have the right to tell me how the game where "I chose the ending", ends; and I personally feel was told I was stupid because I did not get their A,B, C ending! I did get it. It was just plain bad. It ticks me off more they can not see that.

I wouldn't use such wording, but all good points.

There was a thread someone opened up a while ago about consumer loyalty and the many tiers of it, basically the ending turned the most hardcore of fans, the people who defend ME to their dying breath,the peopel who spread the most word of mouth into people whose goodwill has turned into warning others to avoid ME.

[Lord Hirudo]

Kinda goofy saying you won't accept something that's free. That's not much of a threat.
I'm not gonna judge EC until I've seen it. If it's terrible,THEN I'll stop supporting BioWare.

[sistersafetypin]

IsaacShep wrote...

robertm2 wrote...

Does whoever sent this honestly think that these threats are going to change what bioware is already knee deep in the process of?

Yes, they think threats will force Bioware to change the endings completly. They wouldn't send it otherwise.

I think the mistake is on the people assuming that they are all giving empty threats. If EC doesn't satisfy ME3 will be the last Bioware game I buy, period

[GimmeDaGun]

Jenonax wrote...

And they think this will help how?

Seriously, you cannot threaten to walk out on Bioware. As much as they don't want to admit it, HTL is not a lot of people. How big are they, 3 or 4 thousand last I heard, but I could be wrong. They are a drop in the ocean compared to the people who would be perfectly happy with explanation of the choices and proper closure with your squad.

They paint everyone who is unhappy with the ending in a very bad light. Bravo.

Actually HTL is the official page of the Retakers and their numbers are at 65k, so it represents hell a lot of people (and may represent even more, who hate the ending). I agree with their motives and their goals, so I joined them. 

About this threat thing: I have the utmost respect for Chris but he could be a bit more specific about this "threat" and the way it way it was delivered to Bioware or Chris himself, because without seeing the actual facts, it could be only a storm in the glass, nothing serious or extraordinarry. It could be few angry fans (or a small group of them standing up,) venting their anger and frustration (because of the lots of empty PR and marketing blabbering from Bioware's part and the terrible ending) by throwing threats at Bioware. So it could easily be an empty attempt from Bioware's part  to make the people at HTL look bad to justify themselves and their doings. If this is the case, then I have to say: throw it on the pyle of petty PR stunts of Bioware concerning the ending controversy. 

If it is not the case, then Chris should tell us and show us (a link probably?) what happened that made him write those posts in his Twitter account. But this is vague at best and has only one message: HTL people (collectively, and their goals - so all those fans who want new endings instead of what is in the making right now) are all selfish, entitled jerks. Which is not nice. 

I know - so to speak - many of the guys at HTL. They are normal and civil people who are really careful about expressing their opinions when it comes to direct messages to Bioware or staff members. If these were posts on their forums (Chris himself opened 2 actual topic in those forums - so he could speak of some of the reactions of the poster there), then, I got to say that their are all entitled to their opinions as individual people, and that they, we have seen worse here on BSN. So I don't know. 

Please Chris clarify first before making vague statements about a group of your fans because it is seems nothing more but accusations without any solid evidence!

Modifié par GimmeDaGun, 23 mai 2012 - 08:43 .

[Joccaren]

I see nothing wrong with this. They are letting Bioware know the stakes. Whether it is the whole HTL group or not, EC will not satisfy some people if it is made how it looks to be being made ATM. I am one of those people. Note: I did not have anything to do with this whole thing, before someone tries to pin that on me.

As for "Just don't buy their next title" - we love Bioware. We want them to do well, and we want their next games, and ME3, to be as awesome as they could be. If we stay silent and just don't buy their games, nothing improves, and Bioware just dies as more and more people leave them.
Conversely, if we shout out and tell them what we don't like, there is a chance things will change, and Bioware's next games will be amazing, and ME3 will be fixed, and Bioware will earn our future purchases too.

As for "This is the best option": Its the worst.
1. Those who hate the ending are not satisfied. Its the same ending. Adding a couple of extra cutscenes doesn't change the diabolous ex machina. Adding a few lines of Dialogue doesn't let us actually choose our path. Explaining things doesn't make Priority: Earth more fun to play, and less rushed. This is closer to pandering to those who liked the ending than those who didn't.
2. Pro-Enders could be happy no matter what. Don't want a new ending? Don't download it. Anyone who has a problem with a new optional ending that they don't have to have has a case of "STOP LIKING WHAT I DON'T LIKE", or are worried about Bioware's already dead artistic integrity. People who liked the endings would have the same ending no matter what. This isn't a compulsory patch that they have to download that has to change their experience. It is an optional DLC they have every right not to download.
3. Bioware's artistic integrity died the second they signed with EA. Why? EA asks them to do something, they will do it. "Make it more shooter" and whatever game it is will become more shooter, whether the Devs want it to or not. If they cared about artistic integrity, they would say "No". If they cared about artistic integrity, they wouldn't cut things because there was a release deadline coming up, but instead delay the release so their art could be completed to their satisfaction. Bioware is treating ME3 as a product, right up until its criticised. Treat something as a product, and charge money for it, selling a licence to use said product, and expect it to be called a product, and treated as such, by others.

[GimmeDaGun]

About the "threat" itself. Bioware has already dropped the ball by their pre-release marketing lies and their reactions to the fan outrage regarding the - I have to say it - terrible and sloppy work on the ending of ME3 and the series. They handeled it poorly and treated fans as they were silly kids. Not the best way to treat a costumer.

Many - no - a significant amount of people (and I eliberately don't use the term "majority") are really dissapointed by the game (especially the ending) and Bioware's recent behavior and attitude. These people have given them another chance to make it right and give them a decent work of an ending, instead of the illogical, lame and lashed-together piece of "art" we already have.

Bioware has the chance to do it right: they promised us the EC dlc (for free). Which is great, but they also hinted that they are not intent to change one thing about the ending but only willing to add some "clarity" to it by a few "cutscenes". What does it mean? It means that they'd like to polish the piece of crap we already have. Not a smart move if you ask me. They could treat that "artistic integrity" with more courage and flexibility. They could add to the already existing endings and make those existing ones a lot better (from the final hours app we already know that there was a fourth ending option which was dismissed because it was "too happy" for Walters).

Anyway Bioware should work its ass off in order to make a good compromise and make as many people happy as possible, because at the moment it is a genuine "threat" to them that significant masses of people will turn their backs on them and move onto something else. And as far as I know Bioware and EA still want to make good profit of the coming dlc-s and other merchandise, future games. It's their best interest too. So it's them who reap what they sow.

I personally am ready to give the EC a chance, but if it is just a half assed effort to make the rusty pile of crap we call the ME ending shine, then I'm out of the game myself and will not spend another dime on Bioware games, but will pirate them instead. It's their call, and this is not a threat. This is just my view on the issue and my possible actions and what ifs.

I'd be the happiest if the EC is successful and great. In that case, Bioware can coun't on my quids again.

[Mcfly616]

IT or bust.....


Bioware has a chance....we'll see what they make of it

[Demon Velsper]

What's so threatening about it?

Though what I don't get is, why even say it? It's a bloody given ain't it? "If you make a bad product I won't support your product" seems pretty damn self-evident. That's what I assume would happen in any similair situation.

[CARL_DF90]

Exactly my thoughts. You can't ****** on your fans and consumers with a subpar product, make light of their concerns and talk down to them, and expect them to remain loyal. That's one of the indications of being completely out of touch, isn't it?

[MakeMineMako]

Unnecessary hellraising toward Bioware isn't gonna solve anything. They've made their bed with this "extended cut" as their "compromise" solution. Now, let's see if that bed will be worth sleeping in.

Then, if it's suckasstic, then those who are still unhappy can just take their money elsewhere. It's that simple.

Consumers making informed consumer choices, not whiny basement dwellers sending nasty postcards, are what influences companies.