173 réponses à ce sujet

[xsdob]

Also some here assume that synthesis alters the mental facilities so that emotions and thoughts no longer exist. How is it that joker and edi still have affection for eachother without unaltered mental functions?

[M0keys]

ardensia wrote...

M0keys wrote...

but everything changes so much, communities don't even exist on any level we understand

remember, we're all half-reaper now (yeah, it got its organic stuff from shepard, but where, pray-tell, did they get the synthetic material? the geth? then it was pre-individualization geth? what?) so I'm not sure what the implications are for ... the daily lives of anyone anymore, or even how our minds work on a chemical level.

And because we don't understand these changes or implications, we can only speculate as to how bad things will or will not be. 

Yes, I do think there will be a rash of suicides with synthesis. A lot of people will outright reject what they don't, or can't, understand, without even making the effort to try or come to terms with it. But I don't think it would be NEARLY as bad as what the Reapers would do to us, if left to their own devices.

they were left to their own devices. or at least the reaper-god's.

[eddieoctane]

OblivionDawn wrote...

George-Kinsill wrote...

OblivionDawn wrote...

There is not an ounce of logic in the original post.

Suicide would not be my first reaction to reaching the apex of evolution. Because I'm not a psychopath.

Makes perfect sense. It would be every single part of you being torn apart to make way for new DNA/synthetic upgrades or whatever the hell it is. I know that past Reaper attempts to ascend species were no that pleasant...synthesis may not be as bad, but still is going to hurt.

Joker, EDI, and the guys fighting on Earth didn't seem to be bothered much by it. Probably didn't hurt too bad.

The guys who cheer wildly when the Reapers go boom or get brainwashed by Shep but just kind of stand there when everything goes green? Somethign different occurs there that obviously doesn't strike them as particularly good. Else, guns would be waved over heads in all scenarios.

[M0keys]

xsdob wrote...

Also some here assume that synthesis alters the mental facilities so that emotions and thoughts no longer exist. How is it that joker and edi still have affection for eachother without unaltered mental functions?

do two dolls, posed in a loving embrace, feel love for each other? does the appearance of something mean it is truly that thing? is the map the territory?

i will admit it's a totally seperate scifi theme but it's there and bioware didn't choose to explore it.. just presented it and left everyone hanging

[paxbanana3915]

If you want to get into the nitty-gritty, no one would survive that kind of genetic transformation--whether it's to code or to the structure of the code. So everyone should die horrible deaths just from synthesis alone.

[OblivionDawn]

M0keys wrote...

xsdob wrote...

Also some here assume that synthesis alters the mental facilities so that emotions and thoughts no longer exist. How is it that joker and edi still have affection for eachother without unaltered mental functions?

do two dolls, posed in a loving embrace, feel love for each other? does the appearance of something mean it is truly that thing? is the map the territory?

i will admit it's a totally seperate scifi theme but it's there and bioware didn't choose to explore it.. just presented it and left everyone hanging

Well... Not really.

It came through pretty clear that Joker and EDI were both sapient beings at the end, now capable of showing affection for each other on equal terms.

That doesn't leave much to the imagination.

Modifié par OblivionDawn, 23 mai 2012 - 04:03 .

[xsdob]

Ill leave now though. Your post and the post of other things insinuate some very large leaps in logic and speculation that only favor a negative outcome.

I disagree but am too angry to really think or post without throwing an insult or make an illogical post. This thread to me is the equivalent of a flame bait for the negative slant it has.

I will depart from here and not cause a flamewar. I doubt I will return.

[Aramiss Ducati]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Suicide is for weak-minded idiots, period.

Its also for people who raise you sense birth and can't take a certain disease eating away at there mind, so they end it so there family doesn't have to see them become a shadow of there former self traped in a prison of flesh.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

M0keys wrote...

what... kind of puberty did you have?

I don't remember trying to OD on desipramine when going to the bathroom suddenly became harder.

Random Jerkface wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Otherwise, I basically stand by that statement.

How very nice. I'm just going to assume you've never personally been affected by suicides, bow out, and abandon the f*ck out of this thread before I get myself banned again.

We'll see about that. In the meantime, I'll respond.

Suicide is responding to adversity with "I give up!" Javik is little different if you ask me. He doesn't belong to this time period and faces culture-shock, so he decides it's just easier to put a gun to his head and pull the trigger. Basically a giver-upper's attitude.

*edit* but again, not always. Drugs (illegal or not), Alcohol, Mental Disorders can all change things.

Modifié par HYR 2.0, 23 mai 2012 - 04:04 .

[M0keys]

OblivionDawn wrote...

M0keys wrote...

xsdob wrote...

Also some here assume that synthesis alters the mental facilities so that emotions and thoughts no longer exist. How is it that joker and edi still have affection for eachother without unaltered mental functions?

do two dolls, posed in a loving embrace, feel love for each other? does the appearance of something mean it is truly that thing? is the map the territory?

i will admit it's a totally seperate scifi theme but it's there and bioware didn't choose to explore it.. just presented it and left everyone hanging

Well... Not really.

It came through pretty clear that Joker and EDI were both sapient beings at the end, now capable of showing affection for each other on equal terms.

That doesn't leave much to the imagination.

would you like to explain this idea? it took 5 years to prove the geth were fully sentient and worth saving

why does it take only 20 seconds for us to accept it with edi and joker? just because they're familiar? is there no desire to understand it at a deeper level?

[eddieoctane]

paxbanana3915 wrote...

If you want to get into the nitty-gritty, no one would survive that kind of genetic transformation--whether it's to code or to the structure of the code. So everyone should die horrible deaths just from synthesis alone.

This is the problem with trying to apply a knowledge of science to synthesis. I'm not sure if it was BioWare or just deluded players who tried to invoke Clarke's 3rd law to sidestep this problem, but whoever it was also forgot that the 3rd law is relative, and the concept of wildly advanced tech that might as well be magic wasn't present in the series until the Catalyst got involved.

[M0keys]

xsdob wrote...

Ill leave now though. Your post and the post of other things insinuate some very large leaps in logic and speculation that only favor a negative outcome.

I disagree but am too angry to really think or post without throwing an insult or make an illogical post. This thread to me is the equivalent of a flame bait for the negative slant it has.

I will depart from here and not cause a flamewar. I doubt I will return.

why would you be so angry? i am not insulting you, or at least not trying to. i only wish to discuss the implications of synthesis.

if you disagree, please continue to describe your vision of synthesis. i only wish to find the truth. if i am wrong, it will  be proven through the mature debate of decent human beings explaining their side of the story.

[M0keys]

I hope this isn't the end of the discussion? there could be more to talk about and discover

[OblivionDawn]

M0keys wrote...

OblivionDawn wrote...

M0keys wrote...

xsdob wrote...

Also some here assume that synthesis alters the mental facilities so that emotions and thoughts no longer exist. How is it that joker and edi still have affection for eachother without unaltered mental functions?

do two dolls, posed in a loving embrace, feel love for each other? does the appearance of something mean it is truly that thing? is the map the territory?

i will admit it's a totally seperate scifi theme but it's there and bioware didn't choose to explore it.. just presented it and left everyone hanging

Well... Not really.

It came through pretty clear that Joker and EDI were both sapient beings at the end, now capable of showing affection for each other on equal terms.

That doesn't leave much to the imagination.

would you like to explain this idea? it took 5 years to prove the geth were fully sentient and worth saving

why does it take only 20 seconds for us to accept it with edi and joker? just because they're familiar? is there no desire to understand it at a deeper level?

Sure, I'd like to understand it more. Hopefully the EC does that.

But if we take the information that we're given in the current ending, then one can pretty much infer that all of the synthetic/organic hybrids still have much of their organic emotions and mannerisms.

[George-Kinsill]

eddieoctane wrote...

OblivionDawn wrote...

George-Kinsill wrote...

OblivionDawn wrote...

There is not an ounce of logic in the original post.

Suicide would not be my first reaction to reaching the apex of evolution. Because I'm not a psychopath.

Makes perfect sense. It would be every single part of you being torn apart to make way for new DNA/synthetic upgrades or whatever the hell it is. I know that past Reaper attempts to ascend species were no that pleasant...synthesis may not be as bad, but still is going to hurt.

Joker, EDI, and the guys fighting on Earth didn't seem to be bothered much by it. Probably didn't hurt too bad.

The guys who cheer wildly when the Reapers go boom or get brainwashed by Shep but just kind of stand there when everything goes green? Somethign different occurs there that obviously doesn't strike them as particularly good. Else, guns would be waved over heads in all scenarios.

At the very least the soldiers not cheering insinuates some type of shock not just related to the Reapers leaving. Again, Ican't imagine being torn apart on a molecular level is pleasant. Even if its short lived, it has to be a scarring experiance, enough that people are not cheering for the survival of all life. 

[Tom Lehrer]

Here is a question.

Even if we assume the Reapers (who are still alive in Synthesis) cannot exert control over everyone at the start what happens when they or some guy in his mom's basement learns how to hack into everyone's robo parts?

[M0keys]

oblivion: I suppose you could come to that conclusion, but most concepts in the series are explored.. without knowledge of indoctrination, saren could come off as truly having believed in his new values instead of having been brainwashed to go against everything he stood for

Modifié par M0keys, 23 mai 2012 - 04:14 .

[Hey]

Who knows. It could lead to some sick hamster fetish for all we know. I'm guess everyone goes "stepford" in a million years.

[ardensia]

M0keys wrote...

they were left to their own devices. or at least the reaper-god's.

Mmm. Poor phrasing on my part. I meant left to their original plan. Their departure suggests they are at least having second thoughts for the time being.

[dreamgazer]

It's completely altering the way people have looked at themselves from the time of their birth. You're bound to have some weaker-minded people freak out at the change, assuming they found out in some way.

In an idyllic presentation of synthesis, they either might not ever perceive a difference in the way they live their lives (outside of glowing mechanized skin), or they wouldn't care about minute changes. Who knows, though. Would their diet change? Do they use the bathroom in the same way? Procreation? Are they briefed about the change? These are things unanswered. Too many variables.

[kookie28]

Anti-synthesis threads says the darndest things.

[Tazzmission]

M0keys wrote...

Just thinking... body penetration on such a fundamental level, in every cell, in every aspect..

the psychological damage would be beyond anything I could imagine. just so many people being forcibly violated, feeling disgusting and corrupted and wrong inside...

lots and lots of people killing themselves. you'd only be left with psychopaths or extreme survivors in the end. no in-betweens. maybe a higher death count than the reaper war itself.

food for thought..

heres a better question. would sythesis even have emotion on those it has affected?


how do we know they wouldnt end up being mindless half breeds? all the catalyst stated was itll be a new dna and it has never really been said they would think normally

[George-Kinsill]

kookie28 wrote...

Anti-synthesis threads says the darndest things.

I really don't see how this is unreasonable Sure, it is a loaded question, but there are 3 reasons that could easily lead to suicides:

1. Religious
2. Possible truama from pain
3. Lack of a reason to live caused by reaching equilibrium

These points are valid concerns. They may not be as massive in scale as some might impl, but there is no reason why they should not be debated. Afterall, Hudson did want speculation for everyone... 

[kookie28]

George-Kinsill wrote...

kookie28 wrote...

Anti-synthesis threads says the darndest things.

I really don't see how this is unreasonable Sure, it is a loaded question, but there are 3 reasons that could easily lead to suicides:

1. Religious
2. Possible truama from pain
3. Lack of a reason to live caused by reaching equilibrium

These points are valid concerns. They may not be as massive in scale as some might impl, but there is no reason why they should not be debated. Afterall, Hudson did want speculation for everyone... 

Everyone in the galaxy just got a bump up to their life expectancy . . .

. . . NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[George-Kinsill]

kookie28 wrote...

George-Kinsill wrote...

kookie28 wrote...

Anti-synthesis threads says the darndest things.

I really don't see how this is unreasonable Sure, it is a loaded question, but there are 3 reasons that could easily lead to suicides:

1. Religious
2. Possible truama from pain
3. Lack of a reason to live caused by reaching equilibrium

These points are valid concerns. They may not be as massive in scale as some might impl, but there is no reason why they should not be debated. Afterall, Hudson did want speculation for everyone... 

Everyone in the galaxy just got a bump up to their life expectancy . . .

. . . NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Living an unnaturally long life is not necessarily a good thing. Especially if it is eternally. If people don't die and they are scarred, then this for certain would lead to suicide. Also, I know a number of people that despise the notion of living forever (they are atheist). In any case, the 3 points still stand. At the same time, I am guessing that Salarians in general would enjoy the expanded life span.