173 réponses à ce sujet

[julio77777]

Actually the simple biologic and image change would cause massive trauma on certain persons, and yes some of them would commit suicide without a doubt, that is basic psychology. There would also be riots among other joyous things.
But that is in a realistic world with no space magic. Space magic could have erased all your concerns and fears about that change for all we know.

Modifié par julio77777, 23 mai 2012 - 04:53 .

[M0keys]

kookie28 wrote...

George-Kinsill wrote...

kookie28 wrote...

Anti-synthesis threads says the darndest things.

I really don't see how this is unreasonable Sure, it is a loaded question, but there are 3 reasons that could easily lead to suicides:

1. Religious
2. Possible truama from pain
3. Lack of a reason to live caused by reaching equilibrium

These points are valid concerns. They may not be as massive in scale as some might impl, but there is no reason why they should not be debated. Afterall, Hudson did want speculation for everyone... 

Everyone in the galaxy just got a bump up to their life expectancy . . .

. . . NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

there are many situations where an extended lifespan would be, well, a living hell.

it is a good idea to think about these things

what if people wanted to be human?

[dreamgazer]

kookie28 wrote...

Everyone in the galaxy just got a bump up to their life expectancy . . .

. . . NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I appreciate the potential benefits in an idyllic projection of singularity, but are we under the assumption that everyone would automatically know them? Networked knowledge and awareness?

[justafan]

No, they can not self-terminate, it would likely be against their programing.

[M0keys]

justafan wrote...

No, they can not self-terminate, it would likely be against their programing.

that's why you'd have to order them to self-terminate

[dreamgazer]

julio77777 wrote...

Actually the simple biologic and image change would cause massive trauma on certain persons, and yes some of them would commit suicide without a doubt, that is basic psychology. There would also be riots among other joyous things.
But that is in a realistic world with no space magic. Space magic could have erased all your concerns and fears about that change for all we know.

I agree. I suppose it all hinges on the constraints of free will.

[kookie28]

M0keys wrote...

kookie28 wrote...

George-Kinsill wrote...

kookie28 wrote...

Anti-synthesis threads says the darndest things.

I really don't see how this is unreasonable Sure, it is a loaded question, but there are 3 reasons that could easily lead to suicides:

1. Religious
2. Possible truama from pain
3. Lack of a reason to live caused by reaching equilibrium

These points are valid concerns. They may not be as massive in scale as some might impl, but there is no reason why they should not be debated. Afterall, Hudson did want speculation for everyone... 

Everyone in the galaxy just got a bump up to their life expectancy . . .

. . . NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

there are many situations where an extended lifespan would be, well, a living hell.

it is a good idea to think about these things

what if people wanted to be human?

What if you stayed human?  If my leg gets blown off and I get a much stronger and more agile robotic leg, have I lost my humanity?

And please, no morality based explanations. 

[George-Kinsill]

dreamgazer wrote...

julio77777 wrote...

Actually the simple biologic and image change would cause massive trauma on certain persons, and yes some of them would commit suicide without a doubt, that is basic psychology. There would also be riots among other joyous things.
But that is in a realistic world with no space magic. Space magic could have erased all your concerns and fears about that change for all we know.

I agree. I suppose it all hinges on the constraints of free will.

I think people still have free will, as Hudson wanted Synthesis to be the "Best" ending. While he may be screwed up for thinking it's badass to kill autistic children (thinks Kai Leng is badass in deception) he still somewhat values free will enough to not get rid of it.

[Dont Kaidan Me]

kookie28 wrote...
What if you stayed human?  If my leg gets blown off and I get a much stronger and more agile robotic leg, have I lost my humanity?

Prosthetics are different than synthetics.

[M0keys]

are you implying that getting an artificial leg is the same as having the whole structure of your DNA rewritten?

[kookie28]

Dont Kaidan Me wrote...

kookie28 wrote...
What if you stayed human?  If my leg gets blown off and I get a much stronger and more agile robotic leg, have I lost my humanity?

Prosthetics are different than synthetics.

Define synthetics in relation to this question.

[kookie28]

M0keys wrote...

are you implying that getting an artificial leg is the same as having the whole structure of your DNA rewritten?

I'm implying that you've been improved via technology.

A prosthetic leg made of synthetic material counts. 

Modifié par kookie28, 23 mai 2012 - 05:18 .

[George-Kinsill]

kookie28 wrote...

M0keys wrote...

kookie28 wrote...

George-Kinsill wrote...

kookie28 wrote...

Anti-synthesis threads says the darndest things.

I really don't see how this is unreasonable Sure, it is a loaded question, but there are 3 reasons that could easily lead to suicides:

1. Religious
2. Possible truama from pain
3. Lack of a reason to live caused by reaching equilibrium

These points are valid concerns. They may not be as massive in scale as some might impl, but there is no reason why they should not be debated. Afterall, Hudson did want speculation for everyone... 

Everyone in the galaxy just got a bump up to their life expectancy . . .

. . . NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

there are many situations where an extended lifespan would be, well, a living hell.

it is a good idea to think about these things

what if people wanted to be human?

What if you stayed human?  If my leg gets blown off and I get a much stronger and more agile robotic leg, have I lost my humanity?

And please, no morality based explanations. 

There is a huge difference between loosing a leg and being changed at the quantum level to the point you are no longer technically the same species. The struggles of day to day life and our own mortality in large part make us human and who we are. Synthesis takes this away. 

For example, as a child, I had horrible asthma and could not participate in sports in school. While sidelined in gym because of this human limitation, I turned to reading numerous books, mostly biographies. This shaped my life as this limitation formed my passion of history and politics to the point where I am now majoring in it and at the top of my class. Were I a physically perfect being under synthesis, this would never have happened. 

[M0keys]

kookie28 wrote...

M0keys wrote...

are you implying that getting an artificial leg is the same as having the whole structure of your DNA rewritten?

I'm implying that you've been improved via technology.

A prosthetic leg made of synthetic material counts. 

ah, but synthesis changes all human life into a different species.

are you perhaps speculating that it is humanity itself that is inherently flawed? that to be human is to be imperfect, and imperfection must be stamped out or changed?

[kookie28]

George-Kinsill wrote...

kookie28 wrote...

M0keys wrote...

kookie28 wrote...

George-Kinsill wrote...

kookie28 wrote...

Anti-synthesis threads says the darndest things.

I really don't see how this is unreasonable Sure, it is a loaded question, but there are 3 reasons that could easily lead to suicides:

1. Religious
2. Possible truama from pain
3. Lack of a reason to live caused by reaching equilibrium

These points are valid concerns. They may not be as massive in scale as some might impl, but there is no reason why they should not be debated. Afterall, Hudson did want speculation for everyone... 

Everyone in the galaxy just got a bump up to their life expectancy . . .

. . . NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

there are many situations where an extended lifespan would be, well, a living hell.

it is a good idea to think about these things

what if people wanted to be human?

What if you stayed human?  If my leg gets blown off and I get a much stronger and more agile robotic leg, have I lost my humanity?

And please, no morality based explanations. 

There is a huge difference between loosing a leg and being changed at the quantum level to the point you are no longer technically the same species. The struggles of day to day life and our own mortality in large part make us human and who we are. Synthesis takes this away. 

For example, as a child, I had horrible asthma and could not participate in sports in school. While sidelined in gym because of this human limitation, I turned to reading numerous books, mostly biographies. This shaped my life as this limitation formed my passion of history and politics to the point where I am now majoring in it and at the top of my class. Were I a physically perfect being under synthesis, this would never have happened. 

So what you're saying is that you think the imperfections in all of us define us and shouldn't be changed.

Please stay out of the way of scientific progress, in that case.

[Hey]

kookie28 wrote...

M0keys wrote...

kookie28 wrote...

George-Kinsill wrote...

kookie28 wrote...

Anti-synthesis threads says the darndest things.

I really don't see how this is unreasonable Sure, it is a loaded question, but there are 3 reasons that could easily lead to suicides:

1. Religious
2. Possible truama from pain
3. Lack of a reason to live caused by reaching equilibrium

These points are valid concerns. They may not be as massive in scale as some might impl, but there is no reason why they should not be debated. Afterall, Hudson did want speculation for everyone... 

Everyone in the galaxy just got a bump up to their life expectancy . . .

. . . NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

there are many situations where an extended lifespan would be, well, a living hell.

it is a good idea to think about these things

what if people wanted to be human?

What if you stayed human?  If my leg gets blown off and I get a much stronger and more agile robotic leg, have I lost my humanity?

And please, no morality based explanations. 

I was a fan of the six million dollar man when I was a little kid!  but what makes us what we are, potentially just got BF'd..

[justafan]

kookie28 wrote...

What if you stayed human?  If my leg gets blown off and I get a much stronger and more agile robotic leg, have I lost my humanity?

And please, no morality based explanations. 

My friend Lord Vader would like to disagree.

I think most people would prefer to stay as they are, it is simply the natural order of things to have a fully organic body.  To add something that doesn't belong would worry most people and totally freak others out if it was done without their consent and beyond their understanding.

Modifié par justafan, 23 mai 2012 - 05:23 .

[M0keys]

justafan wrote...

kookie28 wrote...

What if you stayed human?  If my leg gets blown off and I get a much stronger and more agile robotic leg, have I lost my humanity?

And please, no morality based explanations. 

My friend Lord Vader would like to disagree.

I think most people would prefer to stay as they are, it is simply the natural order of things to have a fully organic body.  To add something that doesn't belong would worry most people and totally freak others out if it was done without their consent.

there is nothing wrong with replacing your body with synthetic parts if it is your choice, of course... your body, right?

[kookie28]

M0keys wrote...

kookie28 wrote...

M0keys wrote...

are you implying that getting an artificial leg is the same as having the whole structure of your DNA rewritten?

I'm implying that you've been improved via technology.

A prosthetic leg made of synthetic material counts. 

ah, but synthesis changes all human life into a different species.

are you perhaps speculating that it is humanity itself that is inherently flawed? that to be human is to be imperfect, and imperfection must be stamped out or changed?

Do tell?  I've seen this one countless times and it's never been properly explained to me.

And I don't believe that there is more to "being human" than being a member of the species.

[Johcande XX]

kookie28 wrote...

M0keys wrote...

are you implying that getting an artificial leg is the same as having the whole structure of your DNA rewritten?

I'm implying that you've been improved via technology.

A prosthetic leg made of synthetic material counts. 

If you accept that there will still be religion in the ME universe; there are some religions that don't condone any kind of alteration to the human body; sects of Islam, and Christianity, especially Amish.  This applies to organ transplant or donation, heart valves, implants. 

Not saying that they would have a problem adjusting to a universal synthesis change, just saying that right now there are some that would be opposed to some improvements via tech.

[justafan]

M0keys wrote...

justafan wrote...

kookie28 wrote...

What if you stayed human?  If my leg gets blown off and I get a much stronger and more agile robotic leg, have I lost my humanity?

And please, no morality based explanations. 

My friend Lord Vader would like to disagree.

I think most people would prefer to stay as they are, it is simply the natural order of things to have a fully organic body.  To add something that doesn't belong would worry most people and totally freak others out if it was done without their consent.

there is nothing wrong with replacing your body with synthetic parts if it is your choice, of course... your body, right?

Hey, if you want those robotic legs and night vision eye implants, go for it!  Just don't implant me with them in my sleep, otherwise I am going to freak out, as I like the way I am just fine.

[George-Kinsill]

kookie28 wrote...

George-Kinsill wrote...

kookie28 wrote...

M0keys wrote...

kookie28 wrote...

George-Kinsill wrote...

kookie28 wrote...

Anti-synthesis threads says the darndest things.

I really don't see how this is unreasonable Sure, it is a loaded question, but there are 3 reasons that could easily lead to suicides:

1. Religious
2. Possible truama from pain
3. Lack of a reason to live caused by reaching equilibrium

These points are valid concerns. They may not be as massive in scale as some might impl, but there is no reason why they should not be debated. Afterall, Hudson did want speculation for everyone... 

Everyone in the galaxy just got a bump up to their life expectancy . . .

. . . NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

there are many situations where an extended lifespan would be, well, a living hell.

it is a good idea to think about these things

what if people wanted to be human?

What if you stayed human?  If my leg gets blown off and I get a much stronger and more agile robotic leg, have I lost my humanity?

And please, no morality based explanations. 

There is a huge difference between loosing a leg and being changed at the quantum level to the point you are no longer technically the same species. The struggles of day to day life and our own mortality in large part make us human and who we are. Synthesis takes this away. 

For example, as a child, I had horrible asthma and could not participate in sports in school. While sidelined in gym because of this human limitation, I turned to reading numerous books, mostly biographies. This shaped my life as this limitation formed my passion of history and politics to the point where I am now majoring in it and at the top of my class. Were I a physically perfect being under synthesis, this would never have happened. 

So what you're saying is that you think the imperfections in all of us define us and shouldn't be changed.

Please stay out of the way of scientific progress, in that case.

Frankly I find that offensive. I am all for progess and scientific advancement. However, how we advance is very important. We are better for overcoming our challenges. Synthesis all of a sudden takes away one of the defining characteristics it is to be human. You may be super strong as a organic/AIhybrid, but many will feel lost and without purpose. In the end, it is overcoming our imperfections that make us great and develop us. Surely you have experianced something similar? 

[M0keys]

kookie28 wrote...

M0keys wrote...

kookie28 wrote...

M0keys wrote...

are you implying that getting an artificial leg is the same as having the whole structure of your DNA rewritten?

I'm implying that you've been improved via technology.

A prosthetic leg made of synthetic material counts. 

ah, but synthesis changes all human life into a different species.

are you perhaps speculating that it is humanity itself that is inherently flawed? that to be human is to be imperfect, and imperfection must be stamped out or changed?

Do tell?  I've seen this one countless times and it's never been properly explained to me.

There is at least 96 percent similarity in the DNA between chimpanzees and human beings. What makes us who we are is a very tiny amount.

synthesis combines us with synthetics, which aren't even a part of anything remotely related to ****** sapiens, or any of the other species of aliens in the galaxy. I believe it is safe to assume that more than 4 percent of our DNA has changed, and if that is true, we are certainly no longer human beings. we are a new species entirely. perhaps even a new form of undefined life beyond our understanding. if any of our old identity does remain as stored by organic material, you might even be able to assume that it'd be marked as a "foreign body" and erased by our newly defined nervous systems. if not, we would certainly be conflicted... again, many of us would not want to be changed.

it would be.. *long breath* problematic.

And I don't believe that there is more to "being human" than being a member of the species.

i am confused... you mean you believe "being human" only functions as a correct state of mind when you are human? that it is improper to behave in a human-like manner if you are, say, an asari?

Modifié par M0keys, 23 mai 2012 - 05:31 .

[Johcande XX]

To the OPs point; No, it would not. I'm saying that not for the reason everyone else is though.

I've read through the posts and conclude that people believe that synthesis DOES NOT change the way people fundamentally think, their free will. That being the case, I stand by the idea that the synthesis ending would NOT stop the war. The fighting would still go on and Reapers would kill everyone. The End.

[ArchDuck]

OblivionDawn wrote...

Suicide would not be my first reaction to reaching the apex of evolution. Because I'm not a psychopath.

:blink:Wait, you swallowed that load of unscientific BS?!?

Modifié par ArchDuck, 23 mai 2012 - 05:38 .