173 réponses à ce sujet

[Merengues 1945]

you forgot all the geeks who will be bouncing in happiness of being now part synthetic. and all those who recognize that synthesis is in fact the last stage of evolution.

Also, I really don't undertand how many people says that synthesis is a violoation.. yeah, Shep decided on behalf the galaxy without asking, but in XXII century probably they are not as weak minded as the people of this time and their reaction is beyond our comprehension.

[ArchDuck]

Could synthesis cause mass suicides?
Most definitely. Among those who would be the first to jump (as it were): the highly religious & those severely afraid of huskification.

Also for those people who say it would make people better... uh, it obviously doesn't provide much in the way of physical improvements as Joker still had his limp after.

Also I would like to point out that taking only the positive spin on an unprovable, unscientific and illogical statement such as "the final evolution of life" from an amoral being claiming responsibility for the genocide of trillions is a pretty desperate move.

Modifié par ArchDuck, 23 mai 2012 - 05:46 .

[M0keys]

but there is no last stage of evolution
it's not a video game (how funny an idea in the context but nevermind)

it goes on for as long as life goes on. evolution stops when everyone's dead or in stasis.

i know I said that before but I think it bears repeating...

[madatroytka]

i r soooo confuzzled now...

i read in another thread that you get a message that you chose right if you pick control. Is that for REAL?

[dreamgazer]

kookie28 wrote...

Do tell?  I've seen this one countless times and it's never been properly explained to me.

And I don't believe that there is more to "being human" than being a member of the species.

Considering the unreliability of the definition of species, and considering the absolute lack of parameters that the synthesis option asserts, it's overwhelmingly difficult to argue whether we'd be a new species---especially since this appears to be a universal shift of all organisms.

However, boiling the term down to a base interpretation, the evolution of a species constitutes a reframing of one's perception of the group of organisms based on a shift in their genetic code. Most of the time it's observable, such as the new appearance of visible cybernetics in the skin that you see on Joker's arm in the synthesis ending.  That's enough to constitute a shift, at the very least to a paraspecies.

Looking at it realistically, yes: in an idyllic version of this type of technological evolution/singularity, we'd move from "humans" to "humans with improvements".  But those improvements are forced upon people, and even with benefits, they have still been restructured on a genetic level to not represent the organism they've perceived themselves to be from the point of their conception.

[George-Kinsill]

M0keys wrote...

but there is no last stage of evolution
it's not a video game (how funny an idea in the context but nevermind)

it goes on for as long as life goes on. evolution stops when everyone's dead or in stasis.

i know I said that before but I think it bears repeating...

Couldn't agree with you more. In life on the cellular level, reaching equilibrium the point of perfection, is when you die. Same thing can be applied to life; to live a fulfilling life you should have something to strive for, a goal, no matter how impossible it may seem. Once you have nothing to strive for, nothing to live for, you live a sad existence a bit longer and perish.

[George-Kinsill]

ArchDuck wrote...

Could synthesis cause mass suicides?
Most definitely. Among those who would be the first to jump (as it were): the highly religious & those severely afraid of huskification.

Also for those people who say it would make people better... uh, it obviously doesn't provide much in the way of physical improvements as Joker still had his limp after.

Also I would like to point out that taking only the positive spin on an unprovable, unscientific and illogical statement such as "the final evolution of life" from an amoral being claiming responsibility for the genocide of trillions is a pretty desperate move.

Yeah, I am pretty sure Ashley would commit suicide for certain...she REALLY fears the idea of becoming a husk as seen with her horror of the cerberus troops on Mars and how Shepard may be like them.

[DukeOfNukes]

Suicide doesn't exist once we hit the peak of our evolution.

[M0keys]

George-Kinsill wrote...

M0keys wrote...

but there is no last stage of evolution
it's not a video game (how funny an idea in the context but nevermind)

it goes on for as long as life goes on. evolution stops when everyone's dead or in stasis.

i know I said that before but I think it bears repeating...

Couldn't agree with you more. In life on the cellular level, reaching equilibrium the point of perfection, is when you die. Same thing can be applied to life; to live a fulfilling life you should have something to strive for, a goal, no matter how impossible it may seem. Once you have nothing to strive for, nothing to live for, you live a sad existence a bit longer and perish.

This certainly seems to be true.. i've read stories of old people with highly-fulfilled lives waking up and thinking, "my time here is done. the next world calls to me."

they have no desire to die, but they are ready for death and are not afraid of it anymore. this pattern and the concept you mention may be one and the same.

[ArchDuck]

DukeOfNukes wrote...

Suicide doesn't exist once we hit the peak of our evolution.

Since "peak of our evolution" doesn't exist I guess you are saying suicide will always exist. Correct?

[M0keys]

DukeOfNukes wrote...

Suicide doesn't exist once we hit the peak of our evolution.

there is no peak of evolution

it's a bs concept the reapers threw around to make us scared

to actually make their scare tactics canon is probably the greatest crime casey hudson ever comitted in this or any other series

[DukeOfNukes]

ArchDuck wrote...

DukeOfNukes wrote...

Suicide doesn't exist once we hit the peak of our evolution.

Since "peak of our evolution" doesn't exist I guess you are saying suicide will always exist. Correct?

Nope, sorry. Everyone knows that nothing ever changes, so there is no need for us to evolve further once we have green, glowing blood. What they don't show you is that everybody can fly, survive in all climates comfortably and has impervious skin. Also...4 toes.

[M0keys]

DukeOfNukes wrote...

ArchDuck wrote...

DukeOfNukes wrote...

Suicide doesn't exist once we hit the peak of our evolution.

Since "peak of our evolution" doesn't exist I guess you are saying suicide will always exist. Correct?

Nope, sorry. Everyone knows that nothing ever changes, so there is no need for us to evolve further once we have green, glowing blood. What they don't show you is that everybody can fly, survive in all climates comfortably and has impervious skin. Also...4 toes.

oh i see

you're being cheeky

[dreamgazer]

M0keys wrote...

to actually make their scare tactics canon is probably the greatest crime casey hudson ever comitted in this or any other series

Do explain this.  You mean, if one chooses synthesis?

[M0keys]

dreamgazer wrote...

M0keys wrote...

to actually make their scare tactics canon is probably the greatest crime casey hudson ever comitted in this or any other series

Do explain this.  You mean, if one chooses synthesis?

yes. if synthesis is the peak of evolution, it at least partially validates sovereign, and invalidates everything shepard ever did in the service of "protecting the galaxy."

[ticklefist]

Facepalming really hard at this thread.

[dreamgazer]

M0keys wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

M0keys wrote...

to actually make their scare tactics canon is probably the greatest crime casey hudson ever comitted in this or any other series

Do explain this.  You mean, if one chooses synthesis?

yes. if synthesis is the peak of evolution, it at least partially validates sovereign, and invalidates everything shepard ever did in the service of "protecting the galaxy."

Gotcha.  I wholeheartedly agree---I was just making sure what you meant by the "canon" portion of your statement. At this point, I think all the endings fall into a gray-area that's neither canonical nor non-canonical, so deeming the synthesis ending as "canon" gave me a start.

[M0keys]

ticklefist wrote...

Facepalming really hard at this thread.

which part?

[ArchDuck]

ticklefist wrote...

Facepalming really hard at this thread.

Quick do it again and give your ego another boost through another unexplained dismissive comment.

[M0keys]

dreamgazer wrote...

M0keys wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

M0keys wrote...

to actually make their scare tactics canon is probably the greatest crime casey hudson ever comitted in this or any other series

Do explain this.  You mean, if one chooses synthesis?

yes. if synthesis is the peak of evolution, it at least partially validates sovereign, and invalidates everything shepard ever did in the service of "protecting the galaxy."

Gotcha.  I wholeheartedly agree---I was just making sure what you meant by the "canon" portion of your statement. At this point, I think all the endings fall into a gray-area that's neither canonical nor non-canonical, so deeming the synthesis ending as "canon" gave me a start.

i understand, I think

i didn't mean synthesis is "the one true ending," I meant that they made sovereign actually right instead of just being a master intimidator/BS artist.

"the reapers are right. life is pointless. don't resist. they're the peak of evolution. and you can be too if you sign up today!"

[OblivionDawn]

ArchDuck wrote...

Could synthesis cause mass suicides?
Most definitely. Among those who would be the first to jump (as it were): the highly religious & those severely afraid of huskification.

Also for those people who say it would make people better... uh, it obviously doesn't provide much in the way of physical improvements as Joker still had his limp after.

Also I would like to point out that taking only the positive spin on an unprovable, unscientific and illogical statement such as "the final evolution of life" from an amoral being claiming responsibility for the genocide of trillions is a pretty desperate move.

They aren't husks. Calling them husks is completely false/exaggeration, plain and simple. Husks are mindless and only have the instinct to kill. What we see in the Sythesis ending aren't husks.

And "unscientific?" What exactly does that mean? Whether or not you can understand how we reach the apex of evolution means nothing in this context. All the endings are "unscientific."

The Starchild is portrayed as a timeless and ultra-intelligent being. So you can assume that he knows what he's talking about when he says synthesis is the final stage of evolution.

Trying to take the negative spin on an ending that is ultimately portrayed as a "happy" ending is a pretty desperate move, considering there's no reason to.

Modifié par OblivionDawn, 23 mai 2012 - 06:19 .

[M0keys]

OblivionDawn wrote...
The Starchild is portrayed as a timeless and ultra-intelligent being. So you can assume that he knows what he's talking about when he says synthesis is the final stage of evolution.

except it's written by men who aren't timeless, ultra-intelligent beings, and if you're going to delve into scientific concepts, you better do a little research and not say something so blatantly wrong that even the most basically-trained scientists can laugh quite loudly and smugly in your face.

[OblivionDawn]

M0keys wrote...

OblivionDawn wrote...
The Starchild is portrayed as a timeless and ultra-intelligent being. So you can assume that he knows what he's talking about when he says synthesis is the final stage of evolution.

except it's written by men who aren't timeless, ultra-intelligent beings, and if you're going to delve into scientific concepts, you better do a little research and not say something so blatantly wrong that even the most basically-trained scientists can laugh quite loudly and smugly in your face.

This a game. The writers use fiction in this game.

[julio77777]

Well to be honest even outside of the moral standpoint, synthesis has the "final stage of evolution" problem.

If it really is the final stage of evolution, then there is only stagnation left. Pretty grim future if you ask me... I'd take uncertainty any day.

But mostly I think synthesis is just very poorly introduced and explained which leads to those discussions if you try to dig a little deeper than the "everyone will be happy" statement of Starchild.

[Blacklash93]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Suicide is responding to adversity with "I give up!" Javik is little different if you ask me. He doesn't belong to this time period and faces culture-shock, so he decides it's just easier to put a gun to his head and pull the trigger. Basically a giver-upper's attitude.

I'm not going to argue that the act of suicide is selfish, but calling those rendered deceased from suicide "weak-mided idiots" is utter disrespect for the dead. They don't need insults.

That ties into those living with suicidal thoughts. Essentailly calling them weak-minded idiots is going to make it much more likely they don't admit their problem to others and seek help.

It's also funny you say suicide is *sometimes* caused by mental illness. Depression which is a key component in almost all suicides is, by definition, a mental illness. Javik, for example, is very likely suffering from severe depression himself considering his circumstances.