173 réponses à ce sujet

[darkiddd]

Synthesis is stupid and I don't know what Bioware was smoking when they came up with the idea.

[Taboo]

mauro2222 wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

As I said elsewhere, an individual's right is not absolute. Here's another example: if by refusing to be inoculated, you endanger a whole community, then you're in the wrong.

Again, it goes both ways.

Most Pro-Synthesis people don't see it both ways.

All the endings are unethical.

[poundoffleshaa]

I think a lot of people might commit suicide if synthesis made people immortal because that would require a complete shift in mindsets to cope with. Also I suppose the "End of Evolution" might get people down as evolution = reproduction + mutation so the end of evolution means no reproduction (no babies) though on the plus side it also means no cancer (mutation) and adapting diseases (reproduction). Though I suppose you could have reproduction without evolution if all babies were genetically identical to there parents so there is hope.

Modifié par poundoffleshaa, 23 mai 2012 - 04:37 .

[Iakus]

mauro2222 wrote...

kookie28 wrote...

Let me re-word that.

"Being human" is an irrelevant phrase.  You're a human because you're a ****** sapien.

There's nothing magical or pseudo-philosophical about it.

And to answer your question, yes.  Imperfections are just that, imperfections.  The end goal is to remove those. 

You see imperfections as part of "being human."  I see them as what they are at face value.  Flaws.  Which is why you see this as some sort of moral abomination and I see it as progress.

A pity that synthesis doesn't do that at all, and that perfection is unachievable.
So yeah, you're forcing a supposed progress on everyone.

Sure perfection is achieveable, we have been told so so in-game

"We are eternal. The pinnacle of evolution and existence."
"We are each a nation - independent, free of all weakness"

Sovereign

 So of course the ghostly child who says he controls the Reap[ers can be trusted to turn everyone partly synthetic...

...wait :innocent:

[Tomwew]

if IT is true then its starkid's way of tricking you into doing a seren, but if it's not then you just DNA raped the galaxy, and no matter what supposed good it does that's pretty objectionable.

it's gonna take a lot of clarity to fix this problem.

[Chaoswind]

green is just awful, I would rather destroy EDI and the Geth or risk it with the control switch than go green...

yes fellas in this case going green is wrong

[Tomwew]

at first it seems like the green option is the best, because togetherness and happiness for all yay but once you stop and think about the ramifications to society and even to an individuals psyche and sense of self it's actually kinda the worst option. imagine suddenly not being you anymore? there'd definitly be some folk who couldn't handle it.

[DistantUtopia]

It would depend on how you define "massive".

As someone mentioned, there would be a few groups of people in the game who would likely not react well to synthesis:
1.) Religious or personal belief (for whatever reason, abhors genetic/body modification)
2.) Rash emotions due to not knowing what just happened (Ex. depression at the forced change, killing another person due to their sudden change)

Would this account for a "massive" portion of galactic society? On a species level, we'd probably see most of the deaths at the pre-spaceflight species who will literally have no clue as to what's going on. Given this is not explored in game lore, it's a moot point. Within known spacefaring species in the game, I am speculating that they (the ones who would die immediately following synthesis) would be in the minority. Still, doesn't mean people won't die.

Due to the loss of the mass relays, this trend of death would likely continue for a few decades as communications are slowly re-established which then help "clarify" to people what just happened. This could either lead to an even larger rush of deaths or stem the tide, depending on how people react to the news (see points 1 and 2 above).

Eventually, if we are to believe that this "synthesis" is purely beneficial as the catalyst would have us believe, then life continues on as normal. People will forget in a few generations what "normal" people used to be. Again, this is all pure speculation as we have no idea what Synthesis really is from a game-lore perspective. All we (and I) can tell is that (as someone so eloquently put) it Butt-f**ks us all with a "Surprise, you're half-synthetic!".

[ArchDuck]

xsdob wrote...

Wouldn't they kill themselves out of fear of being rejected from society and of the changes being a stigma?

As soon as they begin to piece together that this affected everyone I think they're going to pull together and pretty much accept this as the new norm of life. I really do not think that they will become lemmings and all rush off the closest elevated structure they can find...

Its not fear of society in general but their specific society (religous cults and groups I'm looking at you) and internal irrational fears. Key word is irrational.

Also the lemming mass suicide thing is a myth FYI.

The rest is strawman arguments, I am sure some people have made some of those arguements but I haven't made them and I don't see them presented here.

Modifié par ArchDuck, 23 mai 2012 - 06:03 .

[ArchDuck]

xsdob wrote...

This thread is a hate orgy.

Im outta here.

Bye. But I don't understand what you mean by "hate orgy". I see people disagreeing but most people are trying to be rational and explain their arguments.

[FlamboyantRoy]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

M0keys wrote...

what... kind of puberty did you have?

I don't remember trying to OD on desipramine when going to the bathroom suddenly became harder.

Random Jerkface wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Otherwise, I basically stand by that statement.

How very nice. I'm just going to assume you've never personally been affected by suicides, bow out, and abandon the f*ck out of this thread before I get myself banned again.

We'll see about that. In the meantime, I'll respond.

Suicide is responding to adversity with "I give up!" Javik is little different if you ask me. He doesn't belong to this time period and faces culture-shock, so he decides it's just easier to put a gun to his head and pull the trigger. Basically a giver-upper's attitude.

*edit* but again, not always. Drugs (illegal or not), Alcohol, Mental Disorders can all change things.

I agree with you to an extent. But suicide's number one risk factor is hopelessness. Now, the people that you say "give up" might be able to see a way out of their problems but it's too hard for them so they kill themselves. People that exhibit hopelessness don't SEE the future or any sort of fix to their problems. No light at the end of the tunnel. They literally don't see any other end to their ailment so they commit suicide. There is a difference. 

[NoUserNameHere]

Do you see certain unfortunate implications in John Lennon's song, 'Imagine'?

If so, then you're out of Synthesis' crack utopian target demographic.

[M0keys]

NoUserNameHere wrote...

Do you see certain unfortunate implications in John Lennon's song, 'Imagine'?

yup!

[Taboo]

Imagine is a great song.

People forget that what the word means when they hear it though.

It says "Imagine" not "Without".

Utopia is impossible, and Lennon understood that.

[Apocaleepse360]

gmboy902 wrote...

We've stuck a bunch of now ex-military aliens on a half-destroyed planet, including a large population of cured Krogan who will multiply like rats if one female happens to be there (doubtful).

Bigger worries.

[M0keys]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Imagine is a great song.

People forget that what the word means when they hear it though.

It says "Imagine" not "Without".

Utopia is impossible, and Lennon understood that.

who's saying imagine isn't a great song?

all we're saying is we see what Lennon's talking about even though he's not outright saying it (unless he is and I'm totally misunderstanding it)

[dreamgazer]

darkiddd wrote...

Synthesis is stupid and I don't know what Bioware was smoking when they came up with the idea.

They knew what they were smoking.  Look at what's being discussed here.  It's not an accident.  

The writing did something very calculated with the words "final evolution of life". Some will dismiss it as bad, vague writing, but it's sparked a LOT of multifaceted debates in just a few words.

[Iakus]

dreamgazer wrote...

darkiddd wrote...

Synthesis is stupid and I don't know what Bioware was smoking when they came up with the idea.

They knew what they were smoking.  Look at what's being discussed here.  It's not an accident.  

The writing did something very calculated with the words "final evolution of life". Some will dismiss it as bad, vague writing, but it's sparked a LOT of multifaceted debates in just a few words.

Nah, my own thought is they saw how easily people swallowed space magic like the Lazarus Project and it only encouraged them to go further.

[KotorEffect3]

Considering that everyone's lives have been forever changed by the reaper invasion anyway I don't know if Synthesis would be as big a shock as it would under normal circumstances.

[Bad King]

M0keys wrote...

Just thinking... body penetration on such a fundamental level, in every cell, in every aspect..

the psychological damage would be beyond anything I could imagine. just so many people being forcibly violated, feeling disgusting and corrupted and wrong inside...

lots and lots of people killing themselves. you'd only be left with psychopaths or extreme survivors in the end. no in-betweens. maybe a higher death count than the reaper war itself.

food for thought..

Obviously not- remember that the galaxy has just been saved from certain extinction by the reapers. People would be partying for weeks. It's unlikely that anyone would feel butthurt due to a few tech upgrades when only a few hours previously they were staring right into the abyss of death. I'd be thankful that the reapers were stopped first and foremost.

[tamperous]

Space Genocide
Space Fascism or
Space Techno-Eugenics

To quote the hero Saren Arterius, "Is submission not preferable to extinction?"

[M0keys]

tamperous wrote...


Space Genocide
Space Fascism or
Space Techno-Eugenics

To quote the hero Saren Arterius, "Is submission not preferable to extinction?"

And as the Evil Villain Shepard tried to brainwash Saren with, "uh, obviously not. you're indoctrinated."

[Bob3terd]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Suicide is for weak-minded idiots, period.

No arrogance is.

[Bob3terd]

tamperous wrote...


Space Genocide
Space Fascism or
Space Techno-Eugenics

To quote the hero Saren Arterius, "Is submission not preferable to extinction?"

Mabye to some people id rather die free than live as a slave.