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[tonnactus]

Garrus and Tali are squadmates in all three games and people complain about Liara? Strange.

[Ryzaki]

Garrus and Tali are easily killed and don't barge into Shep's room constantly.

[tonnactus]

Ryzaki wrote...

Garrus and Tali are easily killed....

So what? How many players actually get them killed without having the goal to do so? Easily killed,as if it was hard to keep them alive. And yet,no Mass Effect 2 only squadmember returned. Funny,isnt it?

Modifié par tonnactus, 24 mai 2012 - 07:41 .

[RadioKon]

Mykel54 wrote...

Liara on the other hand cannot die in any game, has a romance scene in all games, has a very important plot role in the 1st and 3rd game (and still a support role in the 2nd). She is also paragon (remember canon shep is paragon), so it makes sense for the girl of the canon shep to share his/her alignment.

THERE ARE POSSIBLE SPOILERS HERE:

I'm pretty sure there is no "canon Shep," but nevertheless, I started playing in ME2 (went back for ME1, which is my favorite) and THAT Shep killed the Council, Wrex, and I saw a large amount of Renegade choices from ME1 present. I recently started a fresh ME3 save (for Kaidan's abilities) and again, Shep chose the Renegade option, with more Renegade choices from ME1 and 2 present, such as the Rachni Queen, the choice over the Collector Base, etc.

I'm pretty sure this "canon Shep" is a pretty bad dude/ chick.<_<

[Raven Kesrar]

it's funny how some people are saying that they didn't get a flashback of there love interest, I've seen plenty of vids on youtube were other characters apear insted of liara

maybe there is another bug !!!!!! have any of you thought about that, how did the other people get there LI there????

Modifié par Raven Kesrar, 24 mai 2012 - 07:57 .

[Ryzaki]

tonnactus wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Garrus and Tali are easily killed....

So what? How many players actually get them killed without having the goal to do so? Easily killed,as if it was hard to keep them alive. And yet,no Mass Effect 2 only squadmember returned. Funny,isnt it?

When you're talking about someone being preferred the ability to kill them off and ignore them completely plays a big role in it.

And actually...it's pretty easy to get Garrus killed for the average player. Most people don't upgrade the ship. And either Garrus or Thane auto dies from that.

So yeah...the blueberry gets preferential treatement. Garrus and Tali do as well but not to such extent.

It's Liara you're forced to drag along for 3! missions (if you have Javik) and it's Liara who barges in Shep's cabin and attempts to comfort him after those ridculous dream sequences.

@Raven: It's not a bug. The only other LI who has a flashback scene is the VS. So you either romance the VS or you're stuck seeing Liara's blue mug. Which is ridculous for everyone who romanced anyone else. Including Garrus and Talimancers.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 24 mai 2012 - 08:04 .

[Gallimatia]

tonnactus wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Garrus and Tali are easily killed....

So what? How many players actually get them killed without having the goal to do so? Easily killed,as if it was hard to keep them alive. And yet,no Mass Effect 2 only squadmember returned. Funny,isnt it?

Agreed Shepard is not in the business of killing squadmates so it being possible for a squadmate to die isn't particulary relevant when discussing how much forced down your throat squadmates are. Garrus is much more forced on Shepard as a close friend than Liara is as a friend or love interrest. There's no question about it. If you didn't recruit Garrus in ME1, never talked to him in ME2 and didn't do his loyalty mission he's still there in ME3 telling you when to go to bed with Shepard acting as if he's your best friend and him responding in kind. The final conversations is symptomatic. In it your only options are "if you go I go" or "there's no Shepard without Vakarian". Neither remotely fitting for anyone not deeply in love with the character. Meanwhile you can dismiss Liara in pretty much every conversation. A gift you say? No thanks.

Modifié par Gallimatia, 24 mai 2012 - 08:12 .

[Vilio1]

Gallimatia wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Garrus and Tali are easily killed....

So what? How many players actually get them killed without having the goal to do so? Easily killed,as if it was hard to keep them alive. And yet,no Mass Effect 2 only squadmember returned. Funny,isnt it?

Agreed Shepard is not in the business of killing squadmates so it being possible for a squadmate to die isn't particulary relevant when discussing how much forced down your throat squadmates are. Garrus is much more forced on Shepard as a close friend than Liara is as a friend or love interrest. There's no question about it. If you didn't recruit Garrus in ME1, never talked to him in ME2 and didn't do his loyalty mission he's still there in ME3 telling you when to go to bed with Shepard acting as if he's your best friend and him responding in kind. The final conversations is symptomatic. In it your only options are "if you go I go" or "there's no Shepard without Vakarian". Neither remotely fitting for anyone not deeply in love with the character. Meanwhile you can dismiss Liara in pretty much every conversation. A gift you say? No thanks.

this

Garrus is by far the worst offender when it comes to forced friendships.

[Raven Kesrar]

so if you get the Vermire survivor or Liara, how does this make Liara forced?
I probably shouldn’t bother but I don't agree, than it means that shepard is getting flashbacks of her or his best friends
 

Modifié par Raven Kesrar, 24 mai 2012 - 08:20 .

[SpectreStone]

Raven Kesrar wrote...

so if you get the Vermire survivor or Liara, how does this make Liara forced?
I probably shouldn’t bother but I don't agree, than it means that shepard is getting flashbacks of her or his best friends
 

If you're referring to the ending flashback, it's being forced because Liara is the default if you didn't romance Kaidan or Ashley. It's pretty obvious that Liara, Ashley and Kaidan were the 'main romances' of ME3, but Liara got a disportionate amount of content beyond the player's control with Shepard compared to the other squadmates.

In regards to Garrus having a forced friendship, that also applies to Liara if not more so. I loathe Liara and I treated her indifferently at any opportunity, yet she still visited Shepard's cabin, uninvited, multiple times asking how I was feeling. Not to mention her wanting to write Shepard's name 'in the stars' which I was unable to have the option to dismiss the idea of it completely.

Modifié par SpectreStone, 24 mai 2012 - 08:32 .

[Raven Kesrar]

Ashely, Kaiden or Liara are the most important romancing options, Liara gets a plus because she is available for both male and female Shepard, so why is it a big deal she got some more cutscenes????? Anderson, Hackett, Joker even EDI get a lot of screen time and dialog even more than Liara.....

she is just being friendly like garrus

I wish people would see this

Modifié par Raven Kesrar, 24 mai 2012 - 08:44 .

[MsKlaussen]

MegaBadExample wrote...

MsKlaussen wrote...

MegaBadExample wrote...

MsKlaussen wrote...

DWH1982 wrote...

Liara is clearly Bioware's favorite.

It's a shame, too, because it has actually made me resent her character to a degree. I used to like Liara, and want to keep liking Liara. I could handle it if it just seemed that her character seems to have unresolved feelings for my canon Shepard, who has been clear with her since ME1 that he's interested in Ash. What I can't handle is how the game seems to favor Liara, and seems to want to push her on me itself, even though I've never been interested.

Interesting because my FemShep has been dating Liara for three games and it felt the whole time as though the only thing that would keep us in any sort of proximity with each other was a black hole.

How any of you felt "forced" into anything I don't know. Half the talk during ME2's reign was that Liara's romance might as well have been dropped because to anyone watching the two were never more than squadmates. People used the Liara romance as an example of how Bioware completely neglected the writing of LI content and fairly demanded the Shadow Broker DLC to fix the problem. The threads were all over this very website.

If this is "forced down player throats" then I'd hate to see "optional".

They didn't fix Ashley and Kaidan's problem in ME2, though.

This is true, but I would expect that this was more to do with the overall role they were set to play in the series than anything else, and the fact that there was no way to know which of the two was going to survive ME1.

There were what, three characters not guaranteed to move over? Those two and Rex? And none of them got an extensive LI treatment.  On the other hand, every other character in the game except Liara who made the transition gave Shepard cause to go on believing there was something special to discuss. Liara was not only not a squadmate, she did everything she could to hustle Shepard into forgetting they were ever an item in the first place, until the DLC came out.

And even with said DLC, there really wasn't a good enough reason given for why every interaction with Liara throughout the whole game came off like a conversation at a bank teller window. Sorry, but if I am in love with somebody, some part of my face is going to betray my lies about it. Not just once, but every single time. Particularly if I am lying about or covering up that love by compulsion or in the midst of guilt. No such problem with Liara, which unless she's actually a T-101, is an immersion breaker.

They were indeed guaranteed to move over, and so was Liara.

The fact is Ashley/Kaidan were love interests. Bioware made them fight, and their fans had to wait over TWO YEARS for a resolution that never really came. Well, at least not for me and I stayed faithful to Ash in that playthrough (Kaidan mentions Horizon in the hospital). Ashley and Kaidan needed that DLC way more than Liara, IMO. With Liara, you got your welcome back kiss, can talk to her about the SB, talk about Cerberus and how she brought your body back - without ANY of the DLC.

However, Ash and Kaidan understandably chew you out - then that's it. You're left wondering for the rest of the game.

Liara got this big expanding background, and we found out what she's been doing/what’s she’s done these passed two years. With Ash - I got none of that. I don't know what’s she's been doing for the passed two years, and I have so many questions.

Liara got all this content, and other characters didn’t. Hence - special treatment.

Liara is forced on you, but not romantically (although I understand why people feel like she is).

How were they guaranteed to move over when both Wrex and Kaidan were dead at the end of my ME1 game?

They were not a guarantee. Either Ashley or Kaidan was going to be sticking around at Saren's base and dying. Wrex was either going to be talked down on Vilmire or shot. The dead don't traverse games. They are too busy being dead, and...the dead don't multitask either, hehe.

It sounds to me like a lot of people are merely blaming Liara for being the character chosen to save Shepard from the Shadow Broker's machinations. But the reality is that somebody had to do it, it could not be Kaidan, Ashley, or Wrex because none of them were guaranteed to make the next game alive. There are only four characters who could have done it: Liara, Garrus, Tali, or Joker. The only four characters whose appearance at the start of ME2 was not dependent on character ME1 choices in the later portion of the fight against Saren.

Additionally, Kaidan, Ashley, and Wrex have nothing to offer in the way of additional insight or unique experience/abilities that would lend themselves to having the responsibility of Shepard's fate after the Collector attack on the Normandy falling to them. They are either run of the mill line officers or mercs. Soldiers, in short. They do their job and would not be afforded any additional decision making authority over Shepard or the situation in general. Not to mention the fact that they are humans, with zero pull in the Citadel Council and zero pull with Anderson or Adina. Liara on the other hand is represented on the Council by race, and has a mother who was one of the highest ranking Asari in the game. There is literally no meaningful debate that can take place about which of those characters was more likely to have been able to take on additional roles.

So too is the situation with Garrus and Tali - neither of whom has any special political clout, familial situation, or unique experience that lends to the issue at hand.

In fact, Liara is the only squadmate in ME1 who is not spending the entirety of ME1 in read only mode where the Reapers and Protheans are concerned. Not surprising considering she is an archeologist studying this exact thing.

That just happens to be the way the story was written. Why would anyone consider that "special treatment"? We get to choose Shepard's backstory and nobody else's. Isn't that special treatment too? Why do we play Shepard and not Garrus? Or Joker? Why is that not "forcing" someone on the player?

Do you see what I'm saying? I mean if this were one of those Yeoman assistants who suddenly got all this coverage, I could see the point, since they're irrelevant to the storyline pretty much. But as it stands, I think  people are faulting Liara unfairly. There are no stories where people are not "forced" on the audience at this rate. Not so long as any of them are described in any additional detail.

[SpectreStone]

Raven Kesrar wrote...

Ashely, Kaiden or Liara are the most important romancing options, Liara gets a plus because she is available for both male and female Shepard...

If you actually believe this, then why make Tali, Miranda, Garrus, Jack and Thane romanceable if they 'aren't important romance options.' Bioware should have made every LI important regardless and they failed to do that to a certain degree. The favoring of certain romances over others is more apparent in ME3 than it was in the previous game.

Modifié par SpectreStone, 24 mai 2012 - 08:54 .

[SilvinC]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Raven Kesrar wrote...

Anderson, Hackett, Joker even EDI get a lot of screen time and dialog even more than Liara.....

This isn't true at all; not sure how you came to this conclusion.

I'm relatively sure that Joker had more dialogue than any squadmember in ME3 <_<

[Raven Kesrar]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Raven Kesrar wrote...

Anderson, Hackett, Joker even EDI get a lot of screen time and dialog even more than Liara.....

This isn't true at all; not sure how you came to this conclusion.

ok cutscnens was the wrong word, more like screen time, Anderson and Hackett talk to you after missions mostly Hackett, Joker and Edi always have something to say after almost every mission joker turns to you to talk, EDI gets up, you can go to the bar  in purgatory with them and talk, you can talk to them in the park on the citadel, lots of dialog with them, Garrus has all this dialog as well and moves a lot on the ship, if you want to go and talk to Liara, the most she says is hi or so....

Liara is just frindely people

Modifié par Raven Kesrar, 24 mai 2012 - 09:04 .

[Mr.House]

SpectreStone wrote...

Raven Kesrar wrote...

Ashely, Kaiden or Liara are the most important romancing options, Liara gets a plus because she is available for both male and female Shepard...

If you actually believe this, then why make Tali, Miranda, Garrus, Jack and Thane romanceable if they 'aren't important romance options.' Bioware should have made every LI important regardless and they failed to do that to a certain degree. The favoring of certain romances over others is more apparent in ME3 than it was in the previous game.

Show me one Bioware game where all romances where treated equal?

[Raven Kesrar]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

SilvinTT56 wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Raven Kesrar wrote...

Anderson, Hackett, Joker even EDI get a lot of screen time and dialog even more than Liara.....

This isn't true at all; not sure how you came to this conclusion.

I'm relatively sure that Joker had more dialogue than any squadmember in ME3 <_<

I'm completely sure he didn't.

Yes he did, you can absolutly talk to him almost after every mission in ME3 and with EDI, those conversations are so funny , its auto dialog but still conversations

[Mr.House]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Show me one Bioware game where all romances where treated equal?

ME2's romances were fairly equal. As were DA2's.

ME Lis where ignored in ME2 while the new ones where favored andt here was a big quality leep in ME2 romances. In DA2 Merrill has little romance content compared to Fenris, Isabela and Anders. So no, romances where not equal at all and they never will.

[Raven Kesrar]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Show me one Bioware game where all romances where treated equal?

ME2's romances were fairly equal. As were DA2's.

This is exactly what I was going to say

[Barquiel]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Show me one Bioware game where all romances where treated equal?

ME2's romances were fairly equal. As were DA2's.

That's simply wrong. There was no Virmire survivor romance content in ME2 (...and a lot of Lair of the Shadow Broker was in response to fans being disappointed in Liara’s too-tiny role in ME2).