77 réponses à ce sujet

[axdorffe]

i know there isn't any game consequences for it but did any of you guys not drink it out of either RP reasons or tactical reasons? seems to me like the act itself isnt so bad

[MusukoYo]

Just out of curiosity, what do you think a potion derived from blood magic would contain?



Hint: it's probably not fruit punch.

[Whailor]

Evil, good, who cares, all is semantics. End result is what matters and if it allows me to perform better and doesn't exactly blow up someone I know, then that's all what matters for me. I don't care what someone else might think, cries about "bad blood magic" or such have no meaning to me. As long as it isn't squeezed from some people I know I see no problem whatsoever. Well, maybe I wouldn't see the problem in that case either but it's still this - my char, my choice. In the long run there will be many choices with what some or several would not agree but that's too bad for them, not for me.

[Mnemnosyne]

Some people foolishly believe that knowledge that has been gained through means they consider "immoral" or "wrong" should not be profited from.

Clearly that is an idiotic attitude. Not profiting from said knowledge does not undo what was done, and makes whatever was endured by those involved meaningless.

[Gimmemocha]

Ditto Koyasha. Horrible things IRL have been done to people, things that have gotten people executed, in the name of science and saving humanity. And while we can argue endlessly about whether or not it should have been done, once it IS done it's more immoral to let the sacrifice be in vain.

[Templ]

Meh, at least if you drink the potion, the crazy wizard's experiments were not all for nothing. The deaths of all those victims pay off in the end. If, on the other hand, you destroy it, their deaths meant nothing.



That's how I see it anyway.

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

I opted to drink the blood. It does unlock another ability for you. The only thing I don't like is that using the ability drains you of health. I have it set in tatics to deactivate at 50% health, but it won't shut off like it should. My PC then passes out, falls down and I get the skelton for my cameo. Wynne healing doesn't work either. I do regain my health after 30 or so seconds and regenerate quickly.



It coats your weapon with tainted blood. Your shaking your head losing blood and poisoning your enemies at the same time. Kinda funny to watch. Not so funny when you fall in battle because of it. Got to take the good with the bad I guess.

[owl208]

Interesting question. There is a *lot* of "gray" to the issue of morality in DA:O. Stealing and Killing seem to be the norm in this brutal society. The whole "mastering their taint" issue surrounding the Grey Wardens is highly suggestive vis-a-vis something negative associated with the Maker tossing the Tevinter Imperium mages out of the golden city because of their sin, with "sin" being associated with evil.

IIRC, what Avernius was doing was trying to break the whole life-death cycle of the taint and in the process uncovered ways to improve the powers Grey Wardens have. The problem is typical: absolute power corrupts absolutely or does it....but then again, Grey Wardens will do *whatever* it takes, right? Like politicians....

Modifié par owl208, 10 décembre 2009 - 02:29 .

[Flamin Jesus]

Not that I didn't enjoy gorging myself on the blood of the innocent to increase my powers, but I'd have preferred the guy to teach me his neat "live for a few hundred years" trick.

Though, honestly, the stuff's like... Right there, even if the process of creating it included harvesting the livers of a bunch of blind orphans on christmas eve, smashing the thing won't bring them back. It's useful, so use it.

[TheRealIncarnal]

Well, it's an interesting issue.



I mean, it does kind of endorse Avernius' work, but if you're ok with him then it's not an issue. However, I think it's extremely hypocritical to kill him and take advantage of the research.



Now, was Avernius wrong? That's a very good question.



He makes a very good point, the Grey Warden's current control of their taint is very crude and has not advanced in an extremely long time. The Grey Wardens are accustomed to sacrifice, even about half of them die in the joining. It seems that it would be in the long term best interests of the Wardens to gain better control over their Taint.

[sethroskull79]

Its meant to make your character better, you paid for it so might as well drink it up.

[Evilsod]

Avernus' means of researching it was clearly evil.



Your character has nothing to do with Avernus, you didn't ask him to research it, you didn't bring him test subjects, nothing, you stumbled upon the fruits of it.



If anything, destroying it is evil imo. Essentially by destroying it all the Grey Wardens that died for it now served absolutely no purpose, putting there 'sacrifice' (murder) to use when you had nothing to do with it and couldn't of stopped it isn't exactly a moral choice.

[ToJKa1]

I agree that destroying it would be worse, all those years of experiments had been for nothing. That said, my goody-two-shoes mage did not drink it, as she was a strong opposer of blood magic (also the reason to turn down Morrigans ritual), but didn't destroy it either. My other characters are more pragmatic and take advantage of the research.



As for the abilities themselves, they use the taint in the Wardens body to harm their enemies, no more evil than normal fighting.

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

I don't view it as evil. Your character did not make the potion or commission it's making. Using the potion makes you stronger to combat the evil you are battling. Destroying the potion would serve no purpose.

[ToJKa1]

Besides, Grey Wardens are about "stopping blight by any means necessary", right?

[Mnemnosyne]

TheRealIncarnal wrote...

I mean, it does kind of endorse Avernius' work, but if you're ok with him then it's not an issue. However, I think it's extremely hypocritical to kill him and take advantage of the research.

I disagree.  You can believe something is wrong and want to punish the person who did it, while still seeing the logic that what is done is done, and cannot be undone.  To throw it away would be the greater crime.

Of course, logically speaking just drinking the damn stuff but also killing Avernus is practically worthless, unless the notes detail the exact production method of the stuff, because only one person will ever benefit.

The potion itself would not appear to require sacrificing people to create, from my impression from the notes, either.  He seems to have made the potion after he ran out of test subjects.  It may have required ingredients from the corpses of those that were already dead, but that's questionable logic and pure speculation at best.

[tigrina]

Hm. I don't drink the potion because I simply don't trust it (RP-wise). I do tell Avernus to go do some more research though, just not the torture version pretty please. Since I leave the potion at the desk, I guess I hope he makes something less evil with it. I thought it a waste to kill him and destroy his research for all the sacrifices already made. He has undone the demons now, let him fix the other bits too.



Does this make me a hypocrite?

[Flamin Jesus]

Koyasha wrote...

It may have required ingredients from the corpses of those that were already dead, but that's questionable logic and pure speculation at best.

Not to mention that simply taking parts from corpses doesn't hurt anyone (Unless you caused the previous owners to turn into corpses in the first place, that is), it's just recycling.
But I do think that killing him without first securing the fruits of his labour (His entire research, not just the potion) is massively stupid, and using the potion at the same time is incredibly hypocritical.
There are more people on the world that could benefit from his discoveries, if you think that they must be destroyed because they're "evil", fine (Stupid, but fine), but using them for yourself (despite their taint) while denying them for everyone else (because of their taint) is the definition of hypocrisy.

[axdorffe]

i agree i think drinking the potion is much more of a benefit to all the grey wardens then it is to leave it.

[Veracruz]

Free (blood) booze = Good

You didn't create it and just use the results to fight Darkspawn (and bandits and undead and Howe and werewolves and elves and dwarves and...) so where is the evil there?

[SarEnyaDor]

Most of my playthroughs I destroyed it, gave lots of money away to people who weren't helping Ferelden at all and ended up dying for it at the end with only a statue to remember by, probably holding a bowl or a sword aloft.



But my blood-mage drank it, and the powers didn't seem to really help me too much, and you can't advance as of yet, and the two powers it gives are sort of meh.



In the future, if they have more content that will expand upon the powers, I might drink it more often, but right now better to stay as untainted as I can.

[Ulyn]

Evil. Not necessary to prevent greater evil. Not clear that it wasn't also physically created through an evil cold brewing process to give it that refreshing evil taste (as opposed to being researched via evil but brewed in a morally neutral manner.)

[DeathTyrant]

Waste not want not...



Two times I have drank the concoction. The first time I asked Avernus to stay on as long as his research is more ethical, the other I just asked him to update me on his progress and do what he likes.

[Mnemnosyne]

SarEnyaDor wrote...

In the future, if they have more content that will expand upon the powers, I might drink it more often, but right now better to stay as untainted as I can.

Well, this is a reasonable argument.  You have no idea whether the potion will work or what it will actually do to you, since it's untested (and who knows how bloody old).  The fact that it works fine and doesn't have any negative side effects is unknowable before drinking it.  So actually drinking this potion which may be well over a century old that some dusty notes say will increase your power does seem like a pretty insane decision in character.  In a way we're usually using some meta-game knowledge to justify drinking it, because from a purely in character perspective, your evaluation of the odds that this thing will work as advertised should be astronomically low.

Clearly the correct decision is to go, "Here, Alistair, drink up." 

[sarahbau]

TheRealIncarnal wrote...

Well, it's an interesting issue.

I mean, it does kind of endorse Avernius' work, but if you're ok with him then it's not an issue.

I agree. It's the endorsement of his work that people seem to be ignoring. Yes, the people he probably sacrificed to make it have already died, but by endorsing his work and reaping the benefits of his research, he and others would be justified in doing future sacrificial research. It's kind of like not wanting to buy something that was made in Sri Lanka because you disagree with the country's politics. The product might have already been made, but by buying it, you're saying "I'm OK with their lax human rights."