257 réponses à ce sujet

[jsadalia]

JL81 wrote...

Ozzyfan223 wrote...

is haunted by a death of one, single child? I know he's supposed to "represent" all those he couldn't save on earth, but still, he's haunted by only one death, a child's death.

Now Shepard has fought many battles, and I bet he's lost many in such battles, not even including the one's we've played. War has gruesome deaths, and Shepard has probably seen a lot of his close friends die in front of him. Hell, look at the collector base deaths, like Kelly and such.

But seeing a ship blow up with this kid inside is haunting him? I would understand earth making him uneasy, but he doesn't dream of all those who died on earth, only the kid. The dreams would've been much more understandable if he dreamt he was on earth and saw people dying around him, or if Anderson was the one who died.

It pisses me off.

I totally hear you OP. You wrote my mind.

My Commander Shepard is a Schwarzenegger figure. He is not traumatized by the death of one child. He is a completely Paragade badass. What Bioware did was hijacking a character I had modeled and... well yeah... they sort of raped the character I created.

It was totally out of place.

Edit: anyone seen the last Rambo movie? In this one, Rambo is a completely desensitized killing machine. He has seen so much, heck, he has seen it all. He's not haunted by the women being raped nearby by the soldiers, he is not haunted by one kid being brought to the bad guy's cabin to be molested... he just focuses on the mission and does what he has to do. THIS was my Shepard.

And please, don't bring the Are You a Father argument. I am a father as a matter of fact, but this is no real life, this is a fantasy we are living through Shepard. This has nothing to do with a realistic situation of PTSD.

Perfectly juxtaposed phrases. 

Modifié par jsadalia, 25 mai 2012 - 02:03 .

[Phydeaux314]

After everything Shepard has seen, done, and endured... I'm amazed s/he hasn't pulled a PTSD commando.

[Changonauta]

MrStoob wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

MrStoob wrote...

Doctor "I'm sorry Commander Shepard, but your mother had died"
Shepard "Who gives a ****, it's not as bad as that time on Virmire..."

No.

Terrible analogy. Shepard's mother is someone she knows and loves (assuming you're talking about Spacer of course).

THIS KID IS NOBODY. I don't care if he's 7 years old. Millions of 7 year olds are dying on Earth in that exact moment.
My Shepard would simply not devote any thought to him. He's there, then he goes, saying nothing of note, being no one of note.

Empathy.

there is such a thing in bsn?

[Johcande XX]

OPs post says that Shepard is battle hardened soldier. Don't think empathy is going to hit that hard. It's a sad thing, but there is such a thing as being desensitized to violence and death, the more you see the less it hits you.

My Shep was surrounded by violence and conflict his whole life, a kid dieing because he wouldn't help himself; my Shep wouldn't give him a second thought.

[Evil Minion]

Johcande XX wrote...

OPs post says that Shepard is battle hardened soldier. Don't think empathy is going to hit that hard. It's a sad thing, but there is such a thing as being desensitized to violence and death, the more you see the less it hits you.

My Shep was surrounded by violence and conflict his whole life, a kid dieing because he wouldn't help himself; my Shep wouldn't give him a second thought.

Being a"battle-hardened soldier" does not mean one is immune to violence and death.

Seesh.

[Johcande XX]

Evil Minion wrote...

Johcande XX wrote...

OPs post says that Shepard is battle hardened soldier. Don't think empathy is going to hit that hard. It's a sad thing, but there is such a thing as being desensitized to violence and death, the more you see the less it hits you.

My Shep was surrounded by violence and conflict his whole life, a kid dieing because he wouldn't help himself; my Shep wouldn't give him a second thought.

Being a"battle-hardened soldier" does not mean one is immune to violence and death.

Seesh.

That's why I used the word desensitized instead of the word immune.  It's a process kinda thing, the degree, I guess, is up to the OPs interpretation.

[Evil Minion]

Johcande XX wrote...

Evil Minion wrote...

Johcande XX wrote...

OPs post says that Shepard is battle hardened soldier. Don't think empathy is going to hit that hard. It's a sad thing, but there is such a thing as being desensitized to violence and death, the more you see the less it hits you.

My Shep was surrounded by violence and conflict his whole life, a kid dieing because he wouldn't help himself; my Shep wouldn't give him a second thought.

Being a"battle-hardened soldier" does not mean one is immune to violence and death.

Seesh.

That's why I used the word desensitized instead of the word immune.  It's a process kinda thing, the degree, I guess, is up to the OPs interpretation.

No. It isn't.

Some soldiers become "desensitized." Many don't.

It's NOT a given.

[TheDeadGodsDream]

The renegades in this thread seem to be suggesting even more contrivance than BioWare, because they assume that

1. My Shep is so badaaaaaasssssssss that he'll never catch PTSD EVER!!!!11one!

2. That Shep seems to have the ability to control dreams.

3. And repeatedly ignore *combat veterans* that say that PTSD, as one poster put it "can come from seeing a dog step on an IED." as in the onset is unpredictable and can come from one small thing

I have no problem with people saying that the execution was bad, and I agree with them, but the people who say that Shep would never, ever be affected by this kid's death ever?!

Quite frankly, you're thicker than a brick.

[Johcande XX]

Evil Minion wrote...

Johcande XX wrote...

Evil Minion wrote...

Johcande XX wrote...

OPs post says that Shepard is battle hardened soldier. Don't think empathy is going to hit that hard. It's a sad thing, but there is such a thing as being desensitized to violence and death, the more you see the less it hits you.

My Shep was surrounded by violence and conflict his whole life, a kid dieing because he wouldn't help himself; my Shep wouldn't give him a second thought.

Being a"battle-hardened soldier" does not mean one is immune to violence and death.

Seesh.

That's why I used the word desensitized instead of the word immune.  It's a process kinda thing, the degree, I guess, is up to the OPs interpretation.

No. It isn't.

Some soldiers become "desensitized." Many don't.

It's NOT a given.

Wow, you really took offense to this didn't you. 
I never said it was a given for everyone, you inferred that; however, I will stand by the fact that it is a process and has varying degrees. 

A kid, 18, will not have the same reaction to someone being shot, that a 20 year Marine veteran would, 99.9% of the time.  Is that because they are desensitized or because of expert training and experience with similar situations.  I don't know for certain, it could be either or both.

[Lyrebon]

I hated the reused goddamn dream sequences. They seemed pointless after the first one.

[Evil Minion]

Johcande XX wrote...

Evil Minion wrote...

Johcande XX wrote...

Evil Minion wrote...

Johcande XX wrote...

OPs post says that Shepard is battle hardened soldier. Don't think empathy is going to hit that hard. It's a sad thing, but there is such a thing as being desensitized to violence and death, the more you see the less it hits you.

My Shep was surrounded by violence and conflict his whole life, a kid dieing because he wouldn't help himself; my Shep wouldn't give him a second thought.

Being a"battle-hardened soldier" does not mean one is immune to violence and death.

Seesh.

That's why I used the word desensitized instead of the word immune.  It's a process kinda thing, the degree, I guess, is up to the OPs interpretation.

No. It isn't.

Some soldiers become "desensitized." Many don't.

It's NOT a given.

Wow, you really took offense to this didn't you. 
I never said it was a given for everyone, you inferred that; however, I will stand by the fact that it is a process and has varying degrees. 

A kid, 18, will not have the same reaction to someone being shot, that a 20 year Marine veteran would, 99.9% of the time.  Is that because they are desensitized or because of expert training and experience with similar situations.  I don't know for certain, it could be either or both.

That has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not someone "cares" about seeing a kid die.

[Johcande XX]

Evil Minion wrote...

Johcande XX wrote...

Evil Minion wrote...

Johcande XX wrote...

Evil Minion wrote...

Johcande XX wrote...

OPs post says that Shepard is battle hardened soldier. Don't think empathy is going to hit that hard. It's a sad thing, but there is such a thing as being desensitized to violence and death, the more you see the less it hits you.

My Shep was surrounded by violence and conflict his whole life, a kid dieing because he wouldn't help himself; my Shep wouldn't give him a second thought.

Being a"battle-hardened soldier" does not mean one is immune to violence and death.

Seesh.

That's why I used the word desensitized instead of the word immune.  It's a process kinda thing, the degree, I guess, is up to the OPs interpretation.

No. It isn't.

Some soldiers become "desensitized." Many don't.

It's NOT a given.

Wow, you really took offense to this didn't you. 
I never said it was a given for everyone, you inferred that; however, I will stand by the fact that it is a process and has varying degrees. 

A kid, 18, will not have the same reaction to someone being shot, that a 20 year Marine veteran would, 99.9% of the time.  Is that because they are desensitized or because of expert training and experience with similar situations.  I don't know for certain, it could be either or both.

That has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not someone "cares" about seeing a kid die.

Well, true empathy is still there; desensitize just means the event doesn't HIT as hard. 
Desensitize:  Make (someone) less likely to feel shock or distress.

I will say that in my original comment, I wrote that MY Shep wouldn't hold a lot of empathy for the kid; again it wasn't a blanket statement about everyone's Shepard, just mine.   

And this is a FICTIONAL child, that ran away from you while you were trying to help him.  I may be considered a heartless b***ard, but I didn't give a d*** about him after that.  

[NS Wizdum]

I don't have a problem with Shepard caring about this child. I have a problem with this child taking over Shepard's life. We witnessed friends die in this game (and in some cases, we sent friends to die), and i'm sorry, but the death of a friend trumps the death of some random kid that said 3 words to me.

Modifié par NS Wizdum, 25 mai 2012 - 04:04 .

[eddieoctane]

XJ347 wrote...

It was forced and felt out of place.

But without the ham-fisted attempts to make you feel for the child, how would the Catalyst's form have any relevance? It's not like people would actually have felt a connection to the various dead squad-mates or anything.

[dreman9999]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
1. They all generate indoctrination waves.

They do not. Leaders on nations on planets are being persuaded to enter Reaper ships to be indoctrinated. Husks would do it, but they can't. Dragon's Teeth turn people into Husks, they do not indoctrinate.

2.You missed the part she resisted it. The point being She sill had he own mind...Even when she was totally controled. Even TIM an Saren were not mindless.  Indoctriantion comes in stages.

Shepard is of her own mind. The control was physical. She is not indoctrinated.

And the only way you can tell me that Sovergin can't effectme on Eden prime is if you can how the limit of range of the indoctrination signal.

I'm guessing it doesn't go all over the planet, and I'm guessing it didn't start taking hold in the 30 minutes you're within a few mils of Sovereign. 

4.No he would not. Shepard has no power or ability to no if some one is indoctrinated. If He did, he would know DR. Kenson was indoctrinated way before getting on the project on arrival.

I think Shepard would notice if close friends started acting strangely. I'm sure Shepard's close friends would bring the issue up given the stakes. 

1."
Ultimately, the Reaper gains the ability to use the victim's body to amplify its signals,  "
I quotedthis abillion times now and some how you missed this...This codex entry says they do.
2.Indortrination is both 
psychological  and physical. Benzia had no implants but seh fought it long enough to help Shepard. My point is that it can be resistedand SHepard is resistin git, That why he has his own mind.
3.But you not miles away from Sovergin, you in the same general area.
4.Agien, indoctination is subtle. The person would not even know they are in the process of indcotrination. That how it work. You won't know till it'stoo late.

[TheClonesLegacy]

Sorry but My Shep watched his whole unit get ripped apart by a Thresher Maw (Sole Survivor) and had several people die by his own dumb calls (Suicide mission...I was tired)....A kid shouldn't be giving him Nightmares.

[Lesbian Wood Elf]

What everyone seems to forget is that Renegade Shepard is still a good guy. It's not like he just laughs uncontrollably when children explode or is an abortion doctor as a part time job to "keep busy on the weekends."

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Wow op, way to not be moved by the piano music and the giant lit up sign that said "feel sad now"

How dare you.

[saracen16]

NS Wizdum wrote...

I don't have a problem with Shepard caring about this child. I have a problem with this child taking over Shepard's life. We witnessed friends die in this game (and in some cases, we sent friends to die), and i'm sorry, but the death of a friend trumps the death of some random kid that said 3 words to me.

The dream sequences didn't mean squat to you? You listen to the voices of the people Shepard either killed, let die, or couldn't have saved. It's obvious that it means something to Shepard: no matter how right he gets it, no matter how hard he tries, he can't save them all.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

saracen16 wrote...

NS Wizdum wrote...

I don't have a problem with Shepard caring about this child. I have a problem with this child taking over Shepard's life. We witnessed friends die in this game (and in some cases, we sent friends to die), and i'm sorry, but the death of a friend trumps the death of some random kid that said 3 words to me.

The dream sequences didn't mean squat to you? You listen to the voices of the people Shepard either killed, let die, or couldn't have saved. It's obvious that it means something to Shepard: no matter how right he gets it, no matter how hard he tries, he can't save them all.

Right. Do they contribute to the plot? No. They are the director standing there with a big sledge hammer beating you on the head "You must feel depressed NOW!" But I forget this is for American audiences where they feel they need to do this ****. No **** Shepard can't save them all. No **** Shepard is frustrated about it. No **** the player has a feeling of hopelessness about the entire war, but "You must remember this one child because we spent extra money having this character model made especially for this scene."

Of course all the voices in there are friends you lost and people you met who've died. But instead of listening to them you're thinking "Okay, now that I've figured out I'm supposed to follow that little ****er, where the **** did he go? Oh, there he is." So you slow motion run over to him, and the little ****er runs off again. This did nothing but ****** me off. I'd see the dream sequence and my first thought was "not this **** again."

And then they make you play the dream scene instead of making it a cutscene that's skippable. Yes they get old after the first one. It's like they're saying "see dead child. feel bad." It's like "see bouncing baby. feel happy." I didn't have children. Why do I need to have children rammed down my throat? They don't make me happy.

They should have made the dream sequences skippable cutscenes because they added nothing to the story line.

[RDSFirebane]

ya idk either the kid didn't do anything emotionally for me in a universe where entire races were fighting to not go extinct especially since I had only known him for 5 sec and had no previous connection with him.

The dream nightmare scenes would have been better if they had taken place for example after Thane or other main characters death and we had chased them through the dark forest hearing them talk about their past or family or even what they thought about Shepard that would have been far more emotional for me. but thats just me.

[Aiyie]

TheClonesLegacy wrote...

Sorry but My Shep watched his whole unit get ripped apart by a Thresher Maw (Sole Survivor) and had several people die by his own dumb calls (Suicide mission...I was tired)....A kid shouldn't be giving him Nightmares.

please read back a few posts.

there's a poster a page back who was willing to share his own experiences.

he shouldn't have PTSD over some Iraqi father and his dead daughter... if anything he should have it over seeing several of his friends killed and many of them wounded.

you do not get to choose what gives you nightmares and what won't.  i don't care how desensitized or ruthless you are... nobody has that much control over their own psyche.

unfortunately, this thread is reminding me why i don't even try to explain this sort of thing to even my own family.  it appears that until someone has actually experienced it, they will never understand it.

[NS Wizdum]

Aiyie wrote...

TheClonesLegacy wrote...

Sorry but My Shep watched his whole unit get ripped apart by a Thresher Maw (Sole Survivor) and had several people die by his own dumb calls (Suicide mission...I was tired)....A kid shouldn't be giving him Nightmares.

please read back a few posts.

there's a poster a page back who was willing to share his own experiences.

he shouldn't have PTSD over some Iraqi father and his dead daughter... if anything he should have it over seeing several of his friends killed and many of them wounded.

you do not get to choose what gives you nightmares and what won't.  i don't care how desensitized or ruthless you are... nobody has that much control over their own psyche.

unfortunately, this thread is reminding me why i don't even try to explain this sort of thing to even my own family.  it appears that until someone has actually experienced it, they will never understand it.

And that individual probably exchanged more than 5 words with the father, in addition to the stress of having to be the one to say "no, you cannot go through here". You do not experiance PTSD over someone that you do not know, dieing, unless you have other emotional problems already. For PTSD to happen, you have to experiance a traumatic event. Someone you do not know, and barely interacted with, dying is not a traumatic experiance. People die every day.

The fact that threads like this even exist is proof that Bioware failed. This is not some deep emotional look into the human mind. This is Bioware beating us over the head with "a kid is dead, you should feel sad!".

[TheClonesLegacy]

Aiyie wrote...

TheClonesLegacy wrote...

Sorry but My Shep watched his whole unit get ripped apart by a Thresher Maw (Sole Survivor) and had several people die by his own dumb calls (Suicide mission...I was tired)....A kid shouldn't be giving him Nightmares.

please read back a few posts.

there's a poster a page back who was willing to share his own experiences.

he shouldn't have PTSD over some Iraqi father and his dead daughter... if anything he should have it over seeing several of his friends killed and many of them wounded.

you do not get to choose what gives you nightmares and what won't.  i don't care how desensitized or ruthless you are... nobody has that much control over their own psyche.

unfortunately, this thread is reminding me why i don't even try to explain this sort of thing to even my own family.  it appears that until someone has actually experienced it, they will never understand it.

I suppose your right,
Still felt incredibly forced though (Seriously Kids ruin Everything)

Modifié par TheClonesLegacy, 25 mai 2012 - 11:09 .

[pacientK]

Every bit with a child was utter crap. Vent, dreams, ending. All of it. Who ever came up with this idea should feel bad, because his ideas are bad.