257 réponses à ce sujet

[kumquats]

You can hear the VS from ME1 dialogue in the dreams (of course the one who died in your playthrough). The dreams are about all the characters and friends that Shepard lost.
The child is more a catalyst. HA!

Modifié par kumquats, 24 mai 2012 - 10:56 .

[Jamie9]

Kasces wrote...

A simpler question: since when can you control your dreams to the degree you decide what it's about ?

As I recall, you can say you're OK whenever someone asks how you are when you wake up. Well, as OK as you can be after watching a child die again, this time by fire.

I dont see how this inteferes with roleplaying, even if annoying.

Lucid dreaming. Obviously Shepard isn't very good at it.

[Icinix]

By having in game Shepard react to the kid - they took my control of Shepard away.

My Shepard / I were moved by Talitha, we were crushed leaving one of our squad on Virmire, our heart strings were pulled everytime one of our alliance ships were destroyed.

My Shepard and I never needed the emotional response to the kid forced on us, because it was forced on us, I actually hated it and felt more disdain and anger towards it.

[avenging_teabag]

Ariq wrote...

Ozzyfan223 wrote...

Yes, a child's death will haunt any man, but what Shepard has seen is beyond what we know. And he has seen many battles, it's highly unlikely that Shepard hasn't seen children die in front of him. Also, Shepard has failed ot help the helpless before, not children to our knowledge, but look at what happens to the colonist/kelly in the collector base. I don't see how adults can't be helpless too...

In historical wars, there have been veterans of  a dozen battles who snap in the thirteenth. Or the fifteenth. No one knows which image will push them over the line. The human mind doesn't get to choose "this is my limit". You probably know the old cliche about straws and camels, right? Stress is cumulative. Every version of Shepard has been through enough to push most people right over the edge. The kid just happens to be that final nudge. It doesn't matter if it was a huge shove (for an emo Paragon) or the tiniest of bumps (for the steely eyed soulless Renegades it sometimes seems 99% of the BSN prefer in these threads). Snapped is snapped.

I read a story once about a US Naval force that had captured a Japanese ship in WWII. Several of the Japanese crew committed suicide. A number of the US Marines that had captured the vessel had to be treated for psychological trauma (Shell shock they called it then). Why? They were the enemy, the Marines were veterans of the war, and they hadn't even been the ones to kill the crew, but something about it pushed them over the edge. Sometimes the mind says enough is enough.

We don't get to pick our nightmares, least I know I never do.

Yep, pretty much. The situation was poorly executed and heavy-handed (like many other things in ME3), but not inconceivable.

Modifié par avenging_teabag, 24 mai 2012 - 11:05 .

[Swimming Ferret]

Yeah, I found it amusing with my main Femshep; she was a Colonist and Sole Surivior. She has dealt with horrific circumstances and adapted. She is rather numb towards death. Honestly, a Colonist has no doubt seen other kids get massacred, yet she forged on, she wouldn't suddenly get haunted again by one child who she has never met.

And my Renegade Shep? Please, she would have kicked that little brat in the head if he got in her way.

The whole thing felt so forced. I just got pissed when those ****** dreams started. It was like Mac was all "HEY LOOK. A KID DIED. HAVE DREAMS ABOUT HIM. BE SAD. BE SAD BECAUSE IT'S A KID ARRAJKLAJKLAL!!!!11!!!!11"

The whole thing felt really lame and shoved right into our faces. :| ME3 kinda failed in the RPG department.

Modifié par Swimming Ferret, 24 mai 2012 - 11:08 .

[dreman9999]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

XJ347 wrote...

It was forced and felt out of place.

Do you know that the limbic system controls dreams?
Do you know that it als is te base center of ptsd?
Do you know that reaper indoctrination takes control of the limbic system first?

How is that relevant, like, at all?

The fact that the reapers can mainipulate and force dreams is not relivent to a person who has been in contact with reaper tech on and off for 3 years?

[Dutch105]

Swimming Ferret wrote...

Yeah, I found it amusing with my main Femshep; she was a Colonist and Sole Surivior. She has dealt with horrific circumstances and adapted. She is rather numb towards death. Honestly, a Colonist has no doubt seen other kids get massacred, yet she forged on, she wouldn't suddenly get haunted again by one child who she has never met.

And my Renegade Shep? Please, she would have kicked that little brat in the head if he got in her way.

The whole thing felt so forced. I just got pissed when those ****** dreams started. It was like Mac was all "HEY LOOK. A KID DIED. HAVE DREAMS ABOUT HIM. BE SAD. BE SAD BECAUSE IT'S A KID ARRAJKLAJKLAL!!!!11!!!!11"

The whole thing felt really lame and shoved right into our faces. :| ME3 kinda failed in the RPG department.

RPG = role-playing game.  You played a role. of a soildier haunted by the death of a child.   If you want absolute choice, then why aren't you complaining about being forced to be a soldier?

[Icinix]

Swimming Ferret wrote...

Yeah, I found it amusing with my main Femshep; she was a Colonist and Sole Surivior. She has dealt with horrific circumstances and adapted. She is rather numb towards death. Honestly, a Colonist has no doubt seen other kids get massacred, yet she forged on, she wouldn't suddenly get haunted again by one child who she has never met.

And my Renegade Shep? Please, she would have kicked that little brat in the head if he got in her way.

The whole thing felt so forced. I just got pissed when those ****** dreams started. It was like Mac was all "HEY LOOK. A KID DIED. HAVE DREAMS ABOUT HIM. BE SAD. BE SAD BECAUSE IT'S A KID ARRAJKLAJKLAL!!!!11!!!!11"

The whole thing felt really lame and shoved right into our faces. :| ME3 kinda failed in the RPG department.

This is exactly where I sit. They tried to hard. What gets me though, is they achieved a similar thing with so many other places in the ME series. Such as the previous mentioned Talitha, the Suicide Mission, the non VS, the people of Thessia.

We as players involved in Shepards story DO NOT NEED to have representation of all the people we couldn't save or all the people going through hell. We've already seen it. We continue to see it. I began to dread those dream sequences as moments that broke the game.

Of course, if IT ends up being true - then they're there as a pre-cursour and it may well work - but as it stands - it is an area that seemed to have the opposite affect they wanted on a lot of people.

[Catroi]

Can someone explain me how the Butcher of Torfan can feel sad about this kid?

[dreman9999]

Catroi wrote...

Can someone explain me how the Butcher of Torfan can feel sad about this kid?

Do you know that the limbic system controls dreams?
Do you know that it als is te base center of ptsd?
Do you know that reaper indoctrination takes control of the limbic system first? 
Do you know your butch of torfan has been near reapers tech on and offor 3 years?

If you feel that it's forced....That's because it is.

Modifié par dreman9999, 24 mai 2012 - 11:17 .

[dreman9999]

Dutch105 wrote...

Swimming Ferret wrote...

Yeah, I found it amusing with my main Femshep; she was a Colonist and Sole Surivior. She has dealt with horrific circumstances and adapted. She is rather numb towards death. Honestly, a Colonist has no doubt seen other kids get massacred, yet she forged on, she wouldn't suddenly get haunted again by one child who she has never met.

And my Renegade Shep? Please, she would have kicked that little brat in the head if he got in her way.

The whole thing felt so forced. I just got pissed when those ****** dreams started. It was like Mac was all "HEY LOOK. A KID DIED. HAVE DREAMS ABOUT HIM. BE SAD. BE SAD BECAUSE IT'S A KID ARRAJKLAJKLAL!!!!11!!!!11"

The whole thing felt really lame and shoved right into our faces. :| ME3 kinda failed in the RPG department.

RPG = role-playing game.  You played a role. of a soildier haunted by the death of a child.   If you want absolute choice, then why aren't you complaining about being forced to be a soldier?

That not so easy as that. Remeber, thereis a spaciffic confition in the plot thatone has to consider.

[Ushanka]

All deaths imprinted in mind, want you this or not. So I think it's normal even for ruthless Shepard. He still human and he obeys to laws of nature.

Modifié par Ushanka, 24 mai 2012 - 11:21 .

[Herr_Fritz]

I have this strange feeling that most of us would have a different opinion of the child and his death if it weren't for the events at the end...

[Icinix]

Herr_Fritz wrote...

I have this strange feeling that most of us would have a different opinion of the child and his death if it weren't for the events at the end...

Not really. Even early trailers with the kid well before release had people groaning about an emotional scenario of a child being forced upon the player.

[dreman9999]

Ushanka wrote...

All deaths imprinted in mind, want you this or not. So I think it's normal even for ruthless Shepard. He still human and he obeys to laws of nature.

But what if your facing an enemy that can physically manipulate these feelings?

[wright1978]

Problem is Bioware moved away from 'showing' and moved to 'telling'. It is no longer the player informing how the character reacts but instead Bioware. Player's job is just to point and shoot things now. Brat is just a particularly heavy handed and jarring exmaple of this. Out the window went player characterisation over 2 games of Shep and in came Bioware's canon shep characterisation in ME3 who apparently breaks down over some random kid.

[Herr_Fritz]

Icinix wrote...

Herr_Fritz wrote...

I have this strange feeling that most of us would have a different opinion of the child and his death if it weren't for the events at the end...

Not really. Even early trailers with the kid well before release had people groaning about an emotional scenario of a child being forced upon the player.

I tend to stay away from trailers, (Damn movie trailer spoilers) so if this was the case I was unaware.

[Icinix]

Herr_Fritz wrote...

Icinix wrote...

Herr_Fritz wrote...

I have this strange feeling that most of us would have a different opinion of the child and his death if it weren't for the events at the end...

Not really. Even early trailers with the kid well before release had people groaning about an emotional scenario of a child being forced upon the player.

I tend to stay away from trailers, (Damn movie trailer spoilers) so if this was the case I was unaware.

Ahh well then, you missed many new threads and many long winded posts about forcing an emotional response from players by killing a kid etc - generally much distaste and many hoping it wasn't going to be forced in the game too much.

There was also many posts about how the kid wasn't real and was a sign of indoctrination or a hallucination and so on.

Pretty much the same thing going on now, only this happened in early - mid 2011.

[The Night Mammoth]

dreman9999 wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

XJ347 wrote...

It was forced and felt out of place.

Do you know that the limbic system controls dreams?
Do you know that it als is te base center of ptsd?
Do you know that reaper indoctrination takes control of the limbic system first?

How is that relevant, like, at all?

The fact that the reapers can mainipulate and force dreams is not relivent to a person who has been in contact with reaper tech on and off for 3 years?

No, because Shepard isn't being remotely manipulated. If the Reapers had this kind of control they would do something more useful than making her dream about some irrelevant kid.

Plus, her concern about the child extends beyond these dreams. She speaks to Garrus and Liara about the event. 

[Swimming Ferret]

Dutch105 wrote...

Swimming Ferret wrote...

Yeah, I found it amusing with my main Femshep; she was a Colonist and Sole Surivior. She has dealt with horrific circumstances and adapted. She is rather numb towards death. Honestly, a Colonist has no doubt seen other kids get massacred, yet she forged on, she wouldn't suddenly get haunted again by one child who she has never met.

And my Renegade Shep? Please, she would have kicked that little brat in the head if he got in her way.

The whole thing felt so forced. I just got pissed when those ****** dreams started. It was like Mac was all "HEY LOOK. A KID DIED. HAVE DREAMS ABOUT HIM. BE SAD. BE SAD BECAUSE IT'S A KID ARRAJKLAJKLAL!!!!11!!!!11"

The whole thing felt really lame and shoved right into our faces. :| ME3 kinda failed in the RPG department.

RPG = role-playing game.  You played a role. of a soildier haunted by the death of a child.   If you want absolute choice, then why aren't you complaining about being forced to be a soldier?

Yeah but being forced to care about some useless brat kinda ruins the immersion for me. At least with the soldier pfft I'm never a soldier, I'm a Vanguard Commander part you can choose to be a kind and dipolmatic one, or a ruthless one, or even a mix. WIth the kid it's all "Oh noes I must run towards with a hand out-stretched and look shocked/sad when you burn! NOES"

[dreman9999]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

XJ347 wrote...

It was forced and felt out of place.

Do you know that the limbic system controls dreams?
Do you know that it als is te base center of ptsd?
Do you know that reaper indoctrination takes control of the limbic system first?

How is that relevant, like, at all?

The fact that the reapers can mainipulate and force dreams is not relivent to a person who has been in contact with reaper tech on and off for 3 years?

No, because Shepard isn't being remotely manipulated. If the Reapers had this kind of control they would do something more useful than making her dream about some irrelevant kid.

Plus, her concern about the child extends beyond these dreams. She speaks to Garrus and Liara about the event. 

1. Indocttination is subtle...It takes time.
2. The control of the limbic system that indoctrination has in to to allow the reaper the ability over time to manipulate the victem. Note how the theory is that Shepard is in the process of indoctrination. It simply means that it too early to influance Shepard yet.
3.Your also missing that fact that there is no proof that the child is real. The idea is that it's a trick. Shepard talking about the childis not proof he is real. It's proof Shepard beleives he is real.

Remeber, this is a raceof machine with a history of deception.

[Silhouett3]

Third dream is the important one:


In this sequence Shepard sees a reflection of himself who catches up with the kid. Then the kid stops running and smiles but at the same time he is getting burned with Shepard (couldn't take the most perfect-timed screenshot, sorry). Something is definitely not right with the kid. The main purpose of this scene is to foreshadow Shepard's end when he sides with the Catalyst. Not to make Shepard or the player feel sad or guilty or heartbroken or any emotion at all.
No matter how you look at it, this scene is symbolic towards the annihilation or the "ascension" of the population of Earth and it is all centered around the Catalyst kid.

Catalyst has nothing to do with dreams and that Bioware is lazy, some said. God**** lazy you are, I said.

[dreman9999]

wright1978 wrote...

Problem is Bioware moved away from 'showing' and moved to 'telling'. It is no longer the player informing how the character reacts but instead Bioware. Player's job is just to point and shoot things now. Brat is just a particularly heavy handed and jarring exmaple of this. Out the window went player characterisation over 2 games of Shep and in came Bioware's canon shep characterisation in ME3 who apparently breaks down over some random kid.

The ending completly counters this statement.

[dreman9999]

Silhouett3 wrote...

Third dream is the important one:


In this sequence Shepard sees a reflection of himself who catches up with the kid. Then the kid stops running and smiles but at the same time he is getting burned with Shepard (couldn't take the most perfect-timed screenshot, sorry). Something is definitely not right with the kid. The main purpose of this scene is to foreshadow Shepard's end when he sides with the Catalyst. Not to make Shepard or the player feel sad or guilty or heartbroken or any emotion at all.
No matter how you look at it, this scene is symbolic towards the annihilation or the "ascension" of the population of Earth and it is all centered around the Catalyst kid.

Catalyst has nothing to do with dreams and that Bioware is lazy, some said. God**** lazy you are, I said.

As I said before, with indoctrination, reapers attack the limbic system first...The limbic system controls dreams. Shepard has been in contact with Reaper tech on and off for 3  years.... The possibilities are there.

[Drake-Shepard]

I don't think shepard could watch 'game of thrones'. the amount of baby killings would just destroy him.