212 réponses à ce sujet

[TheKingBoar]

jaydubs67 wrote...

I just want to see the MP match the SP.  If Protheans are found, Javik would find out about it through Shepard or Liara.  And I think it would require more content then a simple "oh I was wrong, I'm not the last Prothean" insert to make it fit.  If Bioware wants to actually add DLC content that deals with Javik coming to terms with finding more of his people, and whether that will fundamentally change his character, I would be very interested.  At that point I would also want Protheans in MP.  

This I wholeheartedly agree with. I want to see Protheans in MP, but I also want to see them properly justified. But really, anything which gives me Slam/Dark Channel I'm ok with.

jaydubs67 wrote...
The Alliance has generally seemed more than happy to get help from ex-Cerberus once the Reapers started showing up.  Accepting a place as indoctrinated servants of the Reapers seems counter to Cerberus's stated goals as ensuring human supremacy in the galaxy.  I guess I just don't really know what you mean.  

The Illusive Man has clearly been indoctrinated and a tool of the Reapers for quite some time. The story itself directly addresses your point.

[robarcool]

This hurts you OP.

[BazoozooTV]

AAawwww... I came here hoping to see the "Y U No?" meme... :-(

[Omega-202]

Cloning makes zero sense. If they could clone Protheans that quickly, why did we need to bother recruiting the Krogans? Why didn't the Salarians just clone an army of Krogan shocktroopers instead?

The answer is that cloning takes time. Saren's facility was there for quite a while. He didn't just pump them out factory style. The same can be said about Okeer and the process needed to create Grunt. Hell, we have no idea how long Grunt was even in the tank undergoing all of his "lessons".

To think that in the few months/year that the ME3 story seems to take place in, the scientific community (who were all already preoccupied with literally EVERYTHING else that could be done to help the war effort) would be able to reliably clone a Prothean capable of fighting is ridiculous.

The Kakliasaur comparison is NOT valid. These are beasts of burden that had existed in recent memory. The Krogan rode them during the Rebellions. There's going to be a lot more scientific data on them and it doesn't take the same kinds of training it would to pop out a fully grown and battle ready adult sentient.

There's no arguable case for Protheans unless they just go ahead and disrespect Javik by saying "hey look, there are like 50 more pods over the hill here". Cloning is not feasible by the rules BioWare set up.

[withneelandi]

Rifneno wrote...

I agree completely that they would have to add SP content as well to explain it. Even if it was just 5 minutes of dialogue with Javik, they couldn't do it without something there.

Do you honestly think that finding even a few hundred prothen pods is done justice by a few mins of dialouge or a side mission?

I'm not saying "no protheans ever" but its a pretty big deal to bring even a single aditional prothean back. For the sake of a skin in a multi player mode that is most likely past its peak isn't it a bit of a waste of a potentionally massive story.

The return of the prothean empire could be EPIC, why can't we all just wait unitl the story can recieve the attention it deserves?

[nuculerman]

Acidrain92 wrote...

If anything Bioware is more creative for creating these ex-cerberus soldiers with biotic whips over just copy pasting Javik into multiplayer >.> not only would that make no sense, but....it just wouldn't make any sense dammit D<

It's a power they already invented for the iOS game.  And the whole "race" is just based off the main character in that game.  They realized they had spent money making IP most fans weren't appreciating, so they migrated it to MP.

[gigliani60]

Omega-202 wrote...

Cloning makes zero sense. If they could clone Protheans that quickly, why did we need to bother recruiting the Krogans? Why didn't the Salarians just clone an army of Krogan shocktroopers instead?

The answer is that cloning takes time. Saren's facility was there for quite a while. He didn't just pump them out factory style. The same can be said about Okeer and the process needed to create Grunt. Hell, we have no idea how long Grunt was even in the tank undergoing all of his "lessons".

To think that in the few months/year that the ME3 story seems to take place in, the scientific community (who were all already preoccupied with literally EVERYTHING else that could be done to help the war effort) would be able to reliably clone a Prothean capable of fighting is ridiculous.

The Kakliasaur comparison is NOT valid. These are beasts of burden that had existed in recent memory. The Krogan rode them during the Rebellions. There's going to be a lot more scientific data on them and it doesn't take the same kinds of training it would to pop out a fully grown and battle ready adult sentient.

There's no arguable case for Protheans unless they just go ahead and disrespect Javik by saying "hey look, there are like 50 more pods over the hill here". Cloning is not feasible by the rules BioWare set up.

THANK YOU.

[Xaijin]

Do not want protheans. Period.

[jaydubs67]

TheKingBoar wrote...

jaydubs67 wrote...
The Alliance has generally seemed more than happy to get help from ex-Cerberus once the Reapers started showing up.  Accepting a place as indoctrinated servants of the Reapers seems counter to Cerberus's stated goals as ensuring human supremacy in the galaxy.  I guess I just don't really know what you mean.  

The Illusive Man has clearly been indoctrinated and a tool of the Reapers for quite some time. The story itself directly addresses your point.

TIM wasn't indoctrinated or working for the Reapers until some time between ME2 and ME3, probably when tried to salvage the Collector base.  His indoctrination, and his attempts to indoctrinate other Cerberus members, is the direct motivation for the defections we're now seeing.  

[Wesus]

Grunt was in it for 7 days.

It is possible if you like it or not.

[TheKingBoar]

Omega-202 wrote...

Cloning makes zero sense. If they could clone Protheans that quickly, why did we need to bother recruiting the Krogans? Why didn't the Salarians just clone an army of Krogan shocktroopers instead?

The answer is that cloning takes time. Saren's facility was there for quite a while. He didn't just pump them out factory style. The same can be said about Okeer and the process needed to create Grunt. Hell, we have no idea how long Grunt was even in the tank undergoing all of his "lessons".

To think that in the few months/year that the ME3 story seems to take place in, the scientific community (who were all already preoccupied with literally EVERYTHING else that could be done to help the war effort) would be able to reliably clone a Prothean capable of fighting is ridiculous.

The Kakliasaur comparison is NOT valid. These are beasts of burden that had existed in recent memory. The Krogan rode them during the Rebellions. There's going to be a lot more scientific data on them and it doesn't take the same kinds of training it would to pop out a fully grown and battle ready adult sentient.

There's no arguable case for Protheans unless they just go ahead and disrespect Javik by saying "hey look, there are like 50 more pods over the hill here". Cloning is not feasible by the rules BioWare set up.

No one says they need to clone an army, just enough to put them on shock troops, which is exactly what the N7 operations are. It's exactly what was done with the Grissom Academy kids. You have a valid point on time, but both Saren and Okeer's operations were run in the dark. A full blown, fully funded Salarian operation could do much more, especially since Javik could give them memories via touch (meaning training is not as relevant for Protheans). The idea that they wouldn't clone powerful biotics to help with the war effort because they were too busy helping with the war effort is preposterous.

[TheKingBoar]

Xaijin wrote...

Do not want protheans. Period.

Do not want Male Quarians (or Quarians at all for that matter). Period. Sill got them. You could deal with Protheans.

[nuculerman]

There are the exactly the same number of Ardot Yakshi as there are Protheans in the ME universe. And yet, we kill about 3M Banshees a week.

Javik made no sense to begin with. He was added to SP as a cheap trick to get fans to buy DLC. And because having a Prothean squad mate would be fun, and increase the quality of the game. Adding Protheans to MP is justified by the same exact argument.

The people who don't want Protheans don't want Protheans like I don't want female characters. They just don't want them. They need to stop hiding behind "lore" arguments, which they pick and choose and exaggerate to "prove" their opinion is more valid than someone else's.

[Rib0flavin]

Yay for BW and holding onto some of their "Artist Integrity" and not lore twisting a crap idea like thousands of protheans magically still being alive.

[Nitrocuban]

What´s about people without "from ashes"? In their universe Protheans are extinced, aren´t they?

[FrOoOstBite]

Fade9wayz wrote...

Because they are extinct

This.
/Thread

[Rifneno]

Omega-202 wrote...

Cloning makes zero sense. If they could clone Protheans that quickly, why did we need to bother recruiting the Krogans? Why didn't the Salarians just clone an army of Krogan shocktroopers instead?

The answer is that cloning takes time. Saren's facility was there for quite a while. He didn't just pump them out factory style. The same can be said about Okeer and the process needed to create Grunt. Hell, we have no idea how long Grunt was even in the tank undergoing all of his "lessons".

To think that in the few months/year that the ME3 story seems to take place in, the scientific community (who were all already preoccupied with literally EVERYTHING else that could be done to help the war effort) would be able to reliably clone a Prothean capable of fighting is ridiculous.

The Kakliasaur comparison is NOT valid. These are beasts of burden that had existed in recent memory. The Krogan rode them during the Rebellions. There's going to be a lot more scientific data on them and it doesn't take the same kinds of training it would to pop out a fully grown and battle ready adult sentient.

There's no arguable case for Protheans unless they just go ahead and disrespect Javik by saying "hey look, there are like 50 more pods over the hill here". Cloning is not feasible by the rules BioWare set up.

Uhh no. They haven't told us what the "rules" are for cloning so there's no basis for saying one way or another. Krogan already number in the billions. Curing the genophage to get those to help is likely a wee bit easier than cloning an equal number of them. Besides which, did you miss the fact that the salarians were opposed to the genophage cure? Regardless of where they came from, do you think they'd be happy with billions of extra krogan?

Disrespect Javik. Yes, I'm sure he'd be greatly offended by finding more of his people survived. It's not like "More of my people survived?" upon hearing of Ilos was the only time in the entire game that his face lit up.

withneelandi wrote...

Do you honestly think that finding even a few hundred prothen pods is done justice by a few mins of dialouge or a side mission?

I'm not saying "no protheans ever" but its a pretty big deal to bring even a single aditional prothean back. For the sake of a skin in a multi player mode that is most likely past its peak isn't it a bit of a waste of a potentionally massive story.

The return of the prothean empire could be EPIC, why can't we all just wait unitl the story can recieve the attention it deserves?

I didn't say I'd be happy with a few minutes of dialogue, just that lorewise they could get away with it.
Screw the return of the Prothean Empire. The Prothean Empire was barely better than the Reapers. Just getting a few more freeze-dried survivors doesn't mean that atrocious empire should reform.

jaydubs67 wrote...

TIM wasn't indoctrinated or working for the Reapers until some time between ME2 and ME3, probably when tried to salvage the Collector base. His indoctrination, and his attempts to indoctrinate other Cerberus members, is the direct motivation for the defections we're now seeing.

Wrong. TIM has been at least mildly indoctrinated since the First Contact War. Check the Evolution comics. His eyes are the way they are because of brief contact with a Reaper artifact that was Reaperizing and enslaving people.

[TheKingBoar]

FrOoOstBite wrote...

Fade9wayz wrote...

Because they are extinct

This.
/Thread

For the last time, the mere existence of Javik means that you are both wrong. There's also nothing that says we can't have more. This has been discussed to death, please read the thread before you join in the misguided "NONONON I DONT WANT PROTHEANS" crowd.

[jaydubs67]

Rifneno wrote...

jaydubs67 wrote...

TIM wasn't indoctrinated or working for the Reapers until some time between ME2 and ME3, probably when tried to salvage the Collector base. His indoctrination, and his attempts to indoctrinate other Cerberus members, is the direct motivation for the defections we're now seeing.

Wrong. TIM has been at least mildly indoctrinated since the First Contact War. Check the Evolution comics. His eyes are the way they are because of brief contact with a Reaper artifact that was Reaperizing and enslaving people.

Ok, well, eh.  I don't take part in any of the media outside the games.  Still, his actions (such as helping to stop the Collectors) suggests strongly that he is still working for humanity and against the Reapers until after ME2.  ME3 is when it becomes fairly obvious to everyone who isn't already indoctrinated that he's become a Reaper puppet.  

[Riscoliscious]

nuculerman wrote...

There are the exactly the same number of Ardot Yakshi as there are Protheans in the ME universe. And yet, we kill about 3M Banshees a week.

Javik made no sense to begin with. He was added to SP as a cheap trick to get fans to buy DLC. And because having a Prothean squad mate would be fun, and increase the quality of the game. Adding Protheans to MP is justified by the same exact argument.

The people who don't want Protheans don't want Protheans like I don't want female characters. They just don't want them. They need to stop hiding behind "lore" arguments, which they pick and choose and exaggerate to "prove" their opinion is more valid than someone else's.

Using the "lore"argument is not hiding or exaggerating to "prove" a point.  Using quotations to "prove" a point is exaggerating.    The lore argument is perfectly valid.  I do not remember the specific dialogue lines, but Javik basically states that once the reapers are defeated, he is content to go 'sleep' (i.e., die obviously) with the rest of his people and let the protheans become past history once again.  Javik obviously is not interested in having himself cloned, which without the release of DLC showing the discovery of more Protheans in stasis (or even worse, just some lame explanation Admiral Hackett like "OMG, we found 1,000 more pods still in stasis... we're gonna use 'em to fight in the N7 Ops, don't tell Javik, LOLs) is the only way Protheans in MP can happen.  If they told Javik they wanted to clone him to make more shock troops, he would probably instruct the messenger to throw himself out the nearest airlock, especially with the way the Genophage situation is handled. (assuming paragon option, haven't seen renegade option yet).

Oh, BTW, your point about there being the same amount of Ardat-Yakshi as Protheans in the universe is an exaggeration... Just saying. 

Modifié par Riscoliscious, 24 mai 2012 - 09:56 .

[known_hero]

Go back to playing your CoD if you want to play with Protheans!

[TheKingBoar]

known_hero wrote...

Go back to playing your CoD if you want to play with Protheans!

Thank you for contributing even less than the /thread people with this post.

[Xaijin]

Wesus wrote...

Grunt was in it for 7 days.

It is possible if you like it or not.

Grunt was in there a lot longer than that accoding to Okeer's speech. Same for Wrex and Saren and the Krogan doctor on Virmire.

Modifié par Xaijin, 24 mai 2012 - 10:09 .