103 réponses à ce sujet

[samb]

numark wrote...

From a gameplay perspective EDI was very redundant for me since I rolled an Engineer. Her (and Tali) still had their uses though on synthetic-heavy missions, which there weren't that many though.

As far as character development her romance with Joker had some nice moments. But her whole organic vs. synthetic dialogue moments I felt were basically nothing I hadn't already heard from Legion. 

Now having her AND Legion on the ship at the same time, that would have been awesome and could have led to some pretty interesting dialogue moments between the two, since we already know EDI and Legion did talk to each other a bit form the Shadow Broker dossiers in ME2.

Even if you are an engineer she boosts the damage and duration by 15% just being in your squad.  If anything I would roll with an all tech squad for tech bursts and elemental explosions.  Honestly Leigon wasn't on the SR-2 long enough to provide much development into the "organ vs synthetic" debate, while EDI, now with a body is able to become more relatable.

Leigon dying felt very forced though.  I personally didn't get why it had to be him.  Out of all the geth out there only he could do it?  WTF?

[wizardryforever]

DWH1982 wrote...

wizardryforever wrote...

 It doesn't matter if it goes into cutscene-style dialogue,

Yes. It does.

wizardryforever wrote...

if they say something to you that has substance, it's dialogue.

No. Sometimes it's autodialouge.

wizardryforever wrote...

And many times, Shepard says something back to them.

Ah. I see. "Many times."

Also, "Shepard" saying something back automatically is part of the damn problem, in case you haven't been paying attention.

People spent two games building their own version of Shepard. Sometimes he (or she) is a saint, sometimes he's a jerk, and sometimes he's a little in between. But in every case, he was theirs. Suddenly, with ME3, they have no choice but to either skip content (that they paid for!) or listen as "Shepard" says things totally out of character for what they've spent two games establishing. I.E. - people he barely tolerated, treated in a neutral way, or was downright hostile towards are suddenly "old friends," despite how the player would prefer to continue treating the relationship.

I had no problem with the autodialouge fitting my vision of Shepard, but, frankly, I can see how other people would - and it'd be nice to have some control over the conversation in case I ever decide I want to play a different Shepard. The autodialouge suits paragon Shepard. It does not suit many of the other wide ranges of Shepards that have been established. Given that Mass Effect is supposed to be a "Role Playing Game" that gives players "Choices," I feel this is just a bit of a problem.

The fact that the conversation wheel was further toned down for the few real conversations we have only adds insult to injury.

EDIT: On second thought, I've decided that the autodialouge works, and that I am now a believer in indoctrination theory. Why didn't we have full control over Shepard? Why were some players forced to watch as he gave uncharacteristic responses in coversations? Simple. He was indoctrinated! That's why ME3 is so lacking in conversation choices - Harbringer was forcing us to give canned responses!

So tell me then, did you honestly prefer the way ME2 handled it, with 2-3 conversations with each squad member and then nothing at all?  Is the dialogue wheel so precious to your experience that you'd forego all of the things that squadmates say, not only to Shepard, but to each other?  Because many of the little things that they say to Shepard don't merit a whole conversation, or even a response most of the time.  It's just them chatting with you, giving you their observations.  Hell, most of the time it would just seem forced if Shepard responded, regardless of what the actual response was.  It's much like the little things you could have squadmates say on the Citadel in ME1, or on each hub in ME2.  They don't need a dialogue wheel.  And aside from the VS and Tali (who both arrive late) each squaddie has at least two cinematic dialogues, in addition to one on the Citadel, which was a nice touch.  The sheer amount of "little chats" made it seem like there were fewer, but it's an illusion.

And lets not forget the inter-squadmate dialogue.  You know, the thing that was completely absent in ME2, and barely present at all in ME1?  Just because it doesn't have a dialogue wheel doesn't automatically make it "not dialogue."

[Dieb]

DWH1982 wrote...

I'm sorry, but I don't give a frigging crap about squadmates interacting with each other if I don't get the chance to have in depth conversations with them.

And I don't care if anyone "counts the interactions," they felt bare to me. Ash said virtually nothing on the Normandy, and never left the damn observation deck.

I agree. I did realize that they were very frequent, but I also felt kinda "left out of the loop".
it's like my shepard became the class teacher. of course, it helped the illusion of people aboard the normandy having a life of their own, and not just waiting for shep to push em like buttons, but I also felt like they were talking to everyone BUT shepard in a way... like james points out when you try to join him and the other marines at the purgatory bar.

About the Ash thing: I feel the same way, but sadly I think I know why. The reason they obviously did not put as much work in her interaction with other people on the ship ( the one time she leaves the deck right after her recruitment, she stands near the memorial by herself) is probably because she's the character with a total 3 events that could make her not be there.
It's weird though, how well the hospital scenes and the spectre subplot are executed (relatively, opposed to what I actually expected) , and how much attention VS gets there, all until actually finally rejoining the crew.

[Dont Kaidan Me]

I think the logistics of having full stories for ME2 squadmates and altering the game depending on who was still alive for 3, would be impossible for the development time allotted.

This is disappointing, as the appearance of most ME2 squadmates feels like forced cameos without much substance. I had a hard time accepting James, since it seemed transparent to me why he was in the game (i.e. appeal to the CoD crowd). And EDI's story, although relevant, felt superficial and almost forced on the player.

I think I would've been okay with not being able to recruit past squad members if the newer members were not as one dimensional. One of my favorite elements of ME, has been the creativity and imagination of the character designs. They each have a very defined background and personality. Through dialog, your Shepard is able to get a real sense of what makes each character tick, and of course, the loyalty missions helped with this.

But the ME3 characters feel... I don't know... soulless, almost. There's no real depth there. You don't have a reason to care. Character events that you expect would elicit reactions from Shepard and crew are met with apathy or ambivalence, or just completely ignored altogether. This chasm between the characters, and further, the player, certainly doesn't aid in the ability to feel any sort of connection.

So, although I understand the issues with incorporating the old squadmates, the execution was sloppy and undermined their importance. Combine that with rather flimsy new characters, and everything just falls flat. In fact, because the old squadmates play out as they do, ensuring that the new ones are rich and dynamic should have been mandatory.

Modifié par Dont Kaidan Me, 26 mai 2012 - 02:38 .

[jtsherrard]

Javik was originally a Collectors Edition bonus content DLC. If he had been free, that would have removed the value of the CE's market. I idnt pay 20$ for a metal case, picture, patch and a robotic dog that just scans the cargo hold. The Squadmate DLC sealed the deal for me. Ill accept those other things as a 10$ value, but not for the whole 20$. Plus it was bonus mission, assets, teammate, squad skins and weapon. Not bad for a 10$ value

[Lamepro]

jtsherrard wrote...

Javik was originally a Collectors Edition bonus content DLC. If he had been free, that would have removed the value of the CE's market. I idnt pay 20$ for a metal case, picture, patch and a robotic dog that just scans the cargo hold. The Squadmate DLC sealed the deal for me. Ill accept those other things as a 10$ value, but not for the whole 20$. Plus it was bonus mission, assets, teammate, squad skins and weapon. Not bad for a 10$ value

I bought the stander version not the collectors edition I did buy the guide and the DLC it was a good deal, sure they could of made Javik a free DLC character like they did with other games.They had people on Xbox live spending points in order to get rare weapons and characters like it was Pokemon Trading card game on Multi-player.

[The Sacred One]

Loved Javik and I bought the CE so I had no problems with a Day one DLC

However, like many, I didn't really like James as well. Sure he had some funny lines but he still wasn't much of a great character. I would have loved a krogan on my team. I know its impossible but Wrex on my team again after ME1 would have been so great. If Miranda was available, it would have been Liara and her that I took for pretty much all the missions.

[someone else]

BW did not plan ME2 well, with everyone from that game potentially expendable.   Programming an ME3 option for any one of twelve potential returning squadmates would have required writing and producing 12 major game variants - too much work for too little return - would have been better to give one-three plot armor - miranda, mordin, & possibly Wrex or Samara if still alive - recruited or installed as squaddies, and given shep even more dramatic live or die options on their respective critical missions.

would also have added some needed relevance to ME2.

Modifié par someone else, 29 mai 2012 - 10:51 .

[Vlk3]

I believe we should get an option to recruit our LI's. Still, it would require much more content in game, but ME2 was brilliant because of the variety of characters. The game lacks something and it's definitely because of the empty and sad Normandy. ME3 needs ME2 characters return at least in LoTSB' style as temporary squadmates.

[nicethugbert]

A batarian would have been fun and I missed grunt.

[soldo9149]

I just wanted my choices from ME2 for squad power setup myself, I did not like not having the ability to mix up my squad power's from me2. Like say example miranda, thane, samara, jack all had biotic powers but different ones for the most par, maybe I wanted to throw samara and thane one board, then thana and jack for example, Hell even ME1 felt like I had more powers to work with even if i didn't need them, at least they are in the game if I needed them.

[soren4ever]

I wish we had gotten Jack, Miranda, Jacob, and Thane back as squadmates, especially so their romances could be actually continued on par with VS, Liara, Garrus,and Tali. Also I would have loved to see Mordin, Legion, and Grunt or Wrex back in the squad (Even if only as Guests). A Batarian Squadmate would have been a great new addition. I didn't mind Vega, I loved EDI, and Javik grew on me. ME3's squad was too small and ME2 exclusive squad kind of got the shaft.

Modifié par soren4ever, 29 mai 2012 - 04:52 .

[capn233]

I think some of you are overestimating how much branching you get for any of the other variables that are imported. Most of the big decisions give the illusion of changes, but missions are still fairly linear.

They could have added a couple more recruitable squad members if they wanted, and there wouldn't need to be much of a redesign. Just have to figure out where each one goes on Normandy and add a few combat lines and mission specific lines for the VA's to read. Sure it would have taken more effort, but it would not have entailed a radical redesign of the main story.

[LinksOcarina]

EDI and Vega were there to make the game impossible to break, because all of the other characters save Liara can either be killed, or leave during the course of the previous game, and Mass Effect 3.

As for Javik, the whole "paid for" thing is true, but I would point out BioWare has been doing that since Jade Empire. And by all intents and purposes, Javik was a cut character retooled for DLC, so otherwise he would not even exist as a character if they didn't do that.

[Seifer006]

Pockydon wrote...

If i'm honest, I find Biowares choice of squad members in Mass Effect 3 quite suprising. I can understand Garrus and Tali, and I would have been suprised if they weren't there. Liara and the VS also make sense.

However, I just can't get my head around why they chose to include James Vega and EDI as a squad member. I also don't understand why they made Javik a DLC char.

Let me elaborate: James was there for new players, and was a big meaty tank person. I think grunt could have easily filled his role. Same class and powers, same wepons, he knows reletively little about the galaxy (having only been born about a year ago) and he's a Krogan! I really did miss our Krogan squad member this game, because I thought it was somewhat of a tradition to always have one.

EDI getting a body made absolutely no sense to me. Maybe it was just because they needed a tech specialist who is garrunteed to be alive, but I still think it's stupid. Why not have a Salarian? Or if they insisted on a robot, why not Legion? If they just wanted a sexy lady companion, why not Miranda? An established and well loved character who was one of the most romanced chars in the franchise (as far as i'm aware)

There was also no vanguard class, unless you bought Javik, but he wasn't really a vanguard. No combat abilities, and no shotgun. I would have had Jack or Thane (obviously with a quest involving you curing him)

So, as for my squad? Well I would have had the VS and Miranda join you right at the start, unlocking Liara and Garrus as you do in the actual game. I would have Grunt recruited at the Rachni mission, and a Salarian engineer of some kind recruited at Sur'Kesh. A cure for Thane would be found and he would join your squad on the citadel. The last recruit would be Tali, who would be recruited as normal. I don't know where Javik would be recruited, proberbly around the same time as Grunt.

I also do realise that many of the characters may be dead, however Miranda was nearly impossible to kill, and no one I know lost Garrus, Tali or Grunt. Even if Garrus, Tali, Miranda, Grunt and Thane are all dead, you would still have a Salarian, Liara , the VS and Javik.

Please post your thoughts and opinions 

MAN YOU SPOKE LIKE A TRUE ME FAN


I've always wanted to have a Krogan in ME3 as a squad memeber.

1. ME:1 - I always brought Wrex in my playthroughs. He's Wrex. He's just great. Personality and as a squad member. He's    K.R.O.G.A.N.

2. ME2: on my Insanity (Vanguard) Run, I brought Grunt and Zaeed on my entire playthrough. Why them? Grunt's a K.R.O.G.A.N. - and he's Great, personality and squad member (like Wrex)
Why Zaeed? - because he's great - personality wise and a squad member (like Wrex & Grunt) and with a cool past!

3. Miranda Thane Samara and the rest - why I couldn't we have them back? We spent the time recruiting them in ME2 (30+hours) give or take and the entire galaxy is now in peril..........................yet we couldn't recruit them.

how's this good writing?

Plus, I have a problem with Liara given so much emphasis in ME3. The entire ME series she's always given emphasis. But not everyone is a fan of Liara. I actually enjoyed Samara much more and find her more interesting.

Be nice to have Samara to take her place? Or, Thane? Or Miranda who was my LI and couldn't even bring her on board Normandy or Subject Zer0 who I also had a LI on my Insanity Run and couldn't bring on the Normandy.......

[JaegerBane]

Personally, I thought they did a cracking job with the squad in ME3.

Garrus, Tali, Liara and Ash/Kaidan largely guaranteed that I was going to at least enjoy the team - Garrus is, in my mind, Shepard's best friend throughout the saga. Tali was his protege, Liara was his confidant, and Ash was his reason to keep fighting - with these, there was only so bad the team could be.

Vega, much like how I saw Grunt when he was first introduced back before ME2's release, was someone I initially thought was a pointless addition - until I gave the guy a chance. I could understand the thinking behind including him - giving a player new to Mass Effect a point of reference, but I assumed he'd be a throwaway redshirt. After a few missions he'd effortlessly become part of the crew - a wisecracking, darker version of jenkins with shades of Varric from DA2. I'm glad he was brought in and just wish he'd been introduced earlier in the saga.

EDI being introduced as a tech specialist gynoid was, imho, a great idea from the get go and I liked it as soon as it was made known. Having your mission support/backup actually 'promote' herself to be an actual squaddie was a brilliant idea and avoided the need to make a totally new tech character.

Javik was a favourite too. In my mind, he was basically the Prothean equivalent of my Shepard - a commander with the best knowledge and experience of fighting the Reapers, a biotic, and military man through and through. It made his relationship with Shep and interesting one, and he was well-written - I liked how he was generally condescending to everyone except Shepard, as if he was the only one Javik believed that truly understood the situation at hand.

All in all they were a great team. I could have done with Tali being introduced much earlier, and Grunt would have been a nice addition, but all in all I was more satisfied with this team than I was with ME2. I don't totally understand why Miranda and Jacob weren't brought back onboard either, but it didn't really matter. The rest, I can understand not coming back as squaddies.

[DarthSliver]

I wish we had chances to add more squad members to our rooster for the ME2 squad members we kept alive.

[wright1978]

DWH1982 wrote...

Having conversations spread evenly is just as important, if not more important, than having an equal number. I mean... I romanced Ash in ME1, stayed loyal to her in ME2, and in ME3, it seems like there's a wall between us when she's back on the Normandy. Even after we officially get back together.

Having real choices in conversations is equally important. One of the reasons I liked Ash so much in ME1 was because of all of the deep conversations I could have with her. And I had choices that ensured those conversations defined my Shepard as a character as much as they defined Ash.

In ME3, I got cute squad interaction - that I couldn't take part of, and that my favorite character was left out of - combined with autodialouge galore. And a conversation wheel that was strikingly bare even when it did appear.

I was truly amazed at the butchered dialogue system in ME3. Run roughshod over all my previous dialogue choices to shove canon auto-shep in my face and then force me to watch as that idiot dronned on in countless autodialogues. The very few times the dialogue wheel popped up it had been stripped to its bare bones. Butcher the squad size, butcher the dialogue. Guess what you butchered the game. Guess casual action junkies like it.

[SeanBahamut]

EDI - Pointless character, only detracted my interest (the whole body thing just didnt make much sense, although with Sci-Fi I guess sense goes out the window)
James - Hardly says anything all game, and is as bland as Jacob
Javik - Only if you bought DLC
Garrus - Great guy, but could be dead from ME2
Ash/Kaiden - Could be dead from ME3, or could not be recruited if they go to Hackett
Tali - Could be dead from ME2
Liara - One we all wanted back

You could effectively only have a choice of only 3 people in ME3 (EDI, James, Liara), 2 of which I didnt like as squaddies at all.

Modifié par SeanBahamut, 31 mai 2012 - 08:47 .

[Gravbh]

I would have preferred to simply get the VS/Tali earlier in the game. As is, you get them over halfway through. Tali/VS are up there with Garrus in popularity. It would have been nice to get them at the beginning of the game like you do with Garrus.

I had the same complaint with Legion in ME2. You could get him somewhat early, but you had to meta-game it and sacrifice your crew.

[Gravbh]

SeanBahamut wrote...

EDI - Pointless character, only detracted my interest
James - Hardly says anything all game, and is as bland as Jacob
Javik - Only if you bought DLC
Garrus - Great guy, but could be dead from ME2
Ash/Kaiden - Could be dead from ME3, or could not be recruited if they go to Hackett
Tali - Could be dead from ME2
Liara - One we all wanted back

You could effectively only have a choice of only 3 people in ME3 (EDI, James, Liara), 2 of which I didnt like as squaddies at all.

Yep, and as stated earlier the 3 you can possibly be left with also fit the 3 archtypes. Biotic, tech and combat. That's why those three are guaranteed.

[numark]

Who/what is the VS people keep talking about?

[Kalyppso]

numark wrote...

Who/what is the VS people keep talking about?

Virmire survivor, Kaidan or Ashley.

[leminzplz]

I like James =o he's one of my favourite characters in the series...I'll happily trade any krogan for him again

[Kalyppso]

I figure here is as good as anywhere to state that I went into ME3 expecting to like (and romance) Vega and dislike EDI (after hearing some spoilers).

I ended up really loving the AI, her personal growth was interesting and enjoyable, and I did like her tech abilities. Her and Garrus with a Vanguard or Sentinel were a lot of fun on Hardcore.

Meanwhile, I disliked Vega. Carnage didn't make him an irreplaceable squadmate, and I felt that something in his persona was in poor taste. They did say he was supposed to represent the new player but ... He didn't come across as uninformed, I felt. It pains me to say he came across as dumb. At the same time, he was good enough. I've seen many threads suggesting Grunt would have been preferable, but I wouldn't have spaced him (well, not every time (multiple playthroughs!)) and would even argue that I expected more new squadmates: Shia'la and Kolyat.