Mp is already lore shattered lol this really isnt a save the lore fight for them as much as they say it is. Maybe they dont even realise the lore is shattered anyway but honestly these no protheans becuz lore fanatics if they were really about the lore would be complaining about far more than just protheans. As we can see most if not all simply are not. All it really comes down to is they dont like protheans and believe everyone for many parts has to be comtained to and content with what they find enjoyable. Incredibly selfish and sad but what are you going to do about it.
Why Protheans Will Come To Multiplayer, Whether You Like It Or Not
Débuté par
Father Superior
, mai 24 2012 09:16
Retour en haut
#77
Posté 25 mai 2012 - 12:30
a ViciousFerret
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OP is wrong because Protheans shouldn't be added (Unless for the pure reasoning of making Bioware $$$) but tl'dr so won't be arsed explaining why.
Link in sig will tell you what you need to know anyway.
Link in sig will tell you what you need to know anyway.
#78
Posté 25 mai 2012 - 12:31
Descy_
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a ViciousFerret wrote...
OP is wrong because Protheans shouldn't be added (Unless for the pure reasoning of making Bioware $$$) but tl'dr so won't be arsed explaining why.
Link in sig will tell you what you need to know anyway.
I dont get what a Drell Infiltrator has to do with Protheans.
#79
Posté 25 mai 2012 - 12:34
Deltakarma
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Might as well bring back the other races before the Protheans.
LETS BREAK EVERYTHING FOR MONEY AND GET PEOPLE TO STOP TALKING ABOUT THE B/G/R ENDINGS!
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The thought process of Bioware/EA
LETS BREAK EVERYTHING FOR MONEY AND GET PEOPLE TO STOP TALKING ABOUT THE B/G/R ENDINGS!
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The thought process of Bioware/EA
#80
Posté 25 mai 2012 - 12:35
Gwinever
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DoctorEss wrote...
No they don't. Where's the DLC explaining Geth in places like Tuchanka? Where's the DLC explaining why Krogan, Batarians, Geth, and Quarians all fight alongside us, when I've got save files that make each of these situations absolutely impossible?
SP =/= MP.
There's no SP DLC explaining why we suddenly just got a bunch of Vorcha. Just a soundbite on the blog. Another soundbite, zomg, we found these clones. Done.
easy and they don't need DLC as the reasons are allrdy in the main game
pockets of geth still under reaper control
all the playable races are recruiteable ingame
cerberus commando's are mentioned ingame to be fighting reapers/modified cerberus troops
MP isn't loyal to a specific game but it is however loyal to every possible outcome in SP
so yeah i'm on Descy with this 1
Modifié par Gwinever, 25 mai 2012 - 12:36 .
#81
Posté 25 mai 2012 - 12:44
a ViciousFerret
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Descy_ wrote...
a ViciousFerret wrote...
OP is wrong because Protheans shouldn't be added (Unless for the pure reasoning of making Bioware $$$) but tl'dr so won't be arsed explaining why.
Link in sig will tell you what you need to know anyway.
I dont get what a Drell Infiltrator has to do with Protheans.
#82
Posté 25 mai 2012 - 12:54
DoctorEss
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Gwinever wrote...
DoctorEss wrote...
No they don't. Where's the DLC explaining Geth in places like Tuchanka? Where's the DLC explaining why Krogan, Batarians, Geth, and Quarians all fight alongside us, when I've got save files that make each of these situations absolutely impossible?
SP =/= MP.
There's no SP DLC explaining why we suddenly just got a bunch of Vorcha. Just a soundbite on the blog. Another soundbite, zomg, we found these clones. Done.
easy and they don't need DLC as the reasons are allrdy in the main game
pockets of geth still under reaper control
all the playable races are recruiteable ingame
cerberus commando's are mentioned ingame to be fighting reapers/modified cerberus troops
MP isn't loyal to a specific game but it is however loyal to every possible outcome in SP
so yeah i'm on Descy with this 1
"Pockets of geth still under reaper control"? Really? That's a weak explanation.
There are literally TONS of things in MP that completely lore-break. Protheans would be just as easily explained. "Found some more stasis pods".
For all you lore-obsessives, tell me something: Why do we have a veritable army of human biotics? HUMAN BIOTICS ARE RARE. Yet, in MP, we've got millions of them.
The actual lore puts us as a race for whom biotics are very rare, yet, the MP has a neverending supply.
When it comes to MP (and SP to some extent), gamplay ALWAYS overrules lore. Period.
It's why we have clip-based weapons, even though that's a massive step backwards in terms of technology (lore wise). It's why Geth weapons will use said clips, even though the geth developed their own technology, and wouldn't have developed it along the exact same lines as the council races.
Following along here?
Protheans, by the by, make a damn lot more sense than some guys who were indoctrinated, and one day decided "You know what, I don't want to be indoctrinated anymore."
#83
Posté 25 mai 2012 - 12:57
jaDanger
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TheKingBoar wrote...
jaDanger wrote...
ericjdev wrote...
They are coming eventually, the whole 'Phoenix' thing was just to gauge customer response/demand.
Lore doesn't matter in MP at all, just playability.
But it does matter to Bioware. They said they only wanted to add multiplayer if it could fit the story, and generally speaking it does. I don't think the multiplayer is meant to be viewed from the perspective of the community, but rather as individual players, so running into a justicar in your squad of 4 is plausible. As a matter of fact, having quarians on your team even if the quarians were wiped out is still plausible as quarians would be spread out for pilgrimages and the like. It just becomes more meamingful if you successfuly recruited them.
Thekingboar is missing the point of thematic resonance. Javik and the protheans had a story, and javik's conflictedness and resolution over the death of his race was central to it. The sacrifice of the protheans to aid a cycle they would never see was central to it. Javik was the avatar of that sacrifice, in addition to being the avatar of vengeance. Ressurecting the rachni wasn't a theme, it was a plot, and as interesting a plot as it was, it had its own questions and meanings. It has nothing to do with the themes of the Javik plot. Rachni were from this cycle. They do not represent the sacrifice of previous cycles. Theme and story are not "shields", they are what defines the franchise.
I would argue in your case it's a shield. Again, nothing about there being more Prothean's damages Javik's storyline, especially if they take place well into his storyline. His story still has all it's power and can then switch to something else, a theme of rebuilding and rebirth. It would certainly fall on the least absurd things the franchise has done. The Prothean's goal was never to help the next cycle, it was to survive and dominate it. Javik wasn't just supposed to get vengance, he was to lead a new Prothean empire.
I think you convinced me. Bioware, you should use cloning to bring back all the characters who have died in the last few games. I liked kaiden and ashley, and It's important that bioware give the fans what they want. My mp squad will be me, ashley, and cloned Kaiden. We could replace the theme of sacrifice and loss from ME3 with a happier theme of rebirth and rebuilding, let the reapers destroy all life, we'll just be cloning everyone back, over here where they won't notice. We could do it on the hidden planet full of functional stasis pods that the reapers never noticed.
I think the key is broadening the appeal of the series generally. People think protheans would be cool. Add protheans. People also love first person, so let's get rid of the powers and go that direction. The space thing is kinda old fashioned circa star wars, so lets go with a modern military setting, more people choose them than anything. It will be nothing like CoD though because it will have protheans. I'm glad i finally listened to you guys.
#84
Posté 25 mai 2012 - 01:00
jaDanger
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DoctorEss: For all you lore-obsessives, tell me something: Why do we have a veritable army of human biotics? HUMAN BIOTICS ARE RARE. Yet, in MP, we've got millions of them.
The most you can ever have in a squad are 4. Unless you count every players experience as part of a whole instead of looking at individual experiences. In which case there are millions of shepherds.
The most you can ever have in a squad are 4. Unless you count every players experience as part of a whole instead of looking at individual experiences. In which case there are millions of shepherds.
#86
Posté 25 mai 2012 - 01:04
Gwinever
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DoctorEss wrote...
Gwinever wrote...
DoctorEss wrote...
No they don't. Where's the DLC explaining Geth in places like Tuchanka? Where's the DLC explaining why Krogan, Batarians, Geth, and Quarians all fight alongside us, when I've got save files that make each of these situations absolutely impossible?
SP =/= MP.
There's no SP DLC explaining why we suddenly just got a bunch of Vorcha. Just a soundbite on the blog. Another soundbite, zomg, we found these clones. Done.
easy and they don't need DLC as the reasons are allrdy in the main game
pockets of geth still under reaper control
all the playable races are recruiteable ingame
cerberus commando's are mentioned ingame to be fighting reapers/modified cerberus troops
MP isn't loyal to a specific game but it is however loyal to every possible outcome in SP
so yeah i'm on Descy with this 1
"Pockets of geth still under reaper control"? Really? That's a weak explanation.
There are literally TONS of things in MP that completely lore-break. Protheans would be just as easily explained. "Found some more stasis pods".
For all you lore-obsessives, tell me something: Why do we have a veritable army of human biotics? HUMAN BIOTICS ARE RARE. Yet, in MP, we've got millions of them.
The actual lore puts us as a race for whom biotics are very rare, yet, the MP has a neverending supply.
When it comes to MP (and SP to some extent), gamplay ALWAYS overrules lore. Period.
It's why we have clip-based weapons, even though that's a massive step backwards in terms of technology (lore wise). It's why Geth weapons will use said clips, even though the geth developed their own technology, and wouldn't have developed it along the exact same lines as the council races.
Following along here?
Protheans, by the by, make a damn lot more sense than some guys who were indoctrinated, and one day decided "You know what, I don't want to be indoctrinated anymore."
uhm, humans have the 2nd/3rd highest amount of biotics overall mostly thnx to cerberus and their fainted eezo excidents worldwide and on some colonies
council races took the clip tech from geth weapons found after the battle off the citadel (forgot why exactly but it is explained somewhere)
in the end, you don't have to like it but MP is tied to SP, so aslong as there is no given reason for Protheans to be there in SP they won't be playable in MP.
#87
Posté 25 mai 2012 - 02:16
Lucius Aelius
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@Zaidra
You know there's not much point to you having said anything if you didn't know what you were responding too.... My post wasn't that long, though if it was the OP you're talking about I can hardly blame you (I skimmed it myself), but either way don't argue about something if you're not going to pay attention to what other people are saying, it really doesn't make much sense and gets us no where. Oh and you're wrong.
You know there's not much point to you having said anything if you didn't know what you were responding too.... My post wasn't that long, though if it was the OP you're talking about I can hardly blame you (I skimmed it myself), but either way don't argue about something if you're not going to pay attention to what other people are saying, it really doesn't make much sense and gets us no where. Oh and you're wrong.
#88
Posté 25 mai 2012 - 02:56
Father Superior
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[quote]Sonintega wrote...
Far too long. Also wrong. Destroying any amount of poignancy and relevance the character of Javik has by being hopelessly displaced and alone, long after the rest of his society has been destroyed and built over, just to have a bunch of clones of him suddenly running around wrecking crap because video games is an incredibly shallow demand. Wrong. Bad. No. [/quote]
I did not demand a single thing in my post. I said that because EA's main goal is to make money, they will do what they can to appeal to a large group of players if the outcome could involve making a profit. Adding Protheans to Multiplayer would make them a profit. EA doesn't care about the story as long as they get their money. Bioware cares, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they will object to the demands of their superiors. Instead, I hope they will try their best to introduce more Protheans into the game in a manner that does not simply use space magic as an excuse for a supposedly extinct race to not be extinct, or being cloned or however they choose to revive them.
[quote]Descy_ wrote...
"Protheans are being added in Rebellion, for sure! Here's proof!"
*Rebellion info released*
"Okay, maybe not for Rebellion, but they will be added!"
I dont care if they do add them, but
1. Bioware needs to make a SP DLC explaining it first.
2. Dont get your hopes up that it will always be the next DLC or the next or the next.[/quote]
Check my profile, this thread is my first post ever. I was optimistic about Phoenix = Protheans, but I was open to other possibilities. I never shot down other theories. As for your second bullet point, I will quote the original post:
[quote]Father Superior wrote...
It may not be soon, it may not be free, but rest assured, Protheans will be integrated into Multiplayer.[/quote]
I am in no way expecting the Protheans soon, I'm only expecting them to be brought in eventually.
[quote]Zhuinden wrote...
But... don't you feel that it's ridiculously corny?
Just because the endings mashed the lore of ME into the ground, doesn't mean we should be bouncing on it.[/quote]
I am not asking for them to say that there were a bunch of leftover stasis pods or that the Alliance soldiers guarding him took a DNA sample from Javik before Shepard went to speak with him and sent it to an Alliance testing facility to be experimented on, resulting in Prothean clones. I'm willing to believe whatever Bioware comes up with to explain more Protheans. Bioware controls the lore, they can decide what to do with it.
[quote]known_hero wrote...
For the people who didn't read, he basically says EA will bring Protheans to MP because they are in the money making business and that lore is irreverent. The rest of text is just fluff.
Not really a good argument. If that's the case, why not bring in Issac Clark from dead space or Lightning from Final Fantasy. MP ties into SP so it has to make sense. To bring in a bunch of Protheans soldiers without any kind of explanation would just be big slap in the overall story's face. [/quote]
That is one god awful summary. By trying to condense my post into a single sentence, you make it seem like I don't care about lore and that I am being condescending towards those who are not in favor of Protheans in Multiplayer. I care very much about the lore and will be disappointed if there is no reasoning for Protheans in Multiplayer, but I am confident that Bioware will come up with a well thought-out explanation. Also, what I wrote in the original post was not "fluff", it was text that I included as a means of explaining how I feel and why. Judging by your treatment of my post, I can assume that you are anti-Prothean and of all people, Anti-Protheans should be open to an argument stated in an intelligent and reasonable way.
[quote]Rite All Wrong wrote...
You really drank the Kool-Aid, didn't you?
So... I read your wall of text and I can see you've got a lot of ideas and a lot of faith in BW. What I can not see in there however is a single compelling argument for Protheans in MP.
[/quote]
I did not "drink the Kool-aid", the Indoctrination Theory is a completely sound and possible theory. But that is not a discussion for this thread. This thread is about Protheans in Multiplayer and I did not provide an argument for my side because I am not trying to justify putting Protheans into Multiplayer, I am trying to explain why it is unavoidable. EA does not care about the lore and they control whether DLC will be released. They would gladly sell you a placebo as a cancer cure and feel no remorse as you die. But if you truly believe EA gives the slightest of ****s about whether or not you enjoy your game or its lore, then not only have you been drinking the Kool-Aid, you've been snorting the powder.
[quote]XxTaLoNxX wrote...
Jeez OP. I want Protheans as well. But you don't see me claiming to be the "only one with clarity on the issue".
Uhhhh get over yourself?[/quote]
You misunderstood what I said. I meant that I have the clarity in this situation because out of all of the threads I have visited regarding Protheans in Multiplayer, I did not recall seeing a single user mention EA's greed ensuring their future appearance. Though after reading my post again, I do see how that could be interpreted differently. I should have been more clear.
[quote]jaDanger wrote...
The issue is thematic as well as simple lore. Javik's entire story is about him being a ghost from the past, representing a lost race, and being the last of his kind. It's about how he comes to grips with that. His final words in the game are a reflection on that exact theme.
Surprise Javik, actually there are a bunch more!
Cloning programs in Mass Effect are always huge and laced with failure. They also almost exclusively involve krogan, suggesting there is lots of race specific research to back that up, potentially since the rachni wars. The kakliosaur was a bit of a joke from the devs, plus would not need any imprinting as they are used as mounts and not fully intelligent species.
There is no evidence that a full prothean cloning program could be initiated and completed in the time from Javik's discovery to the final conflict.
Suddenly finding a bunch of stasis pods that we never noticed is equally unlikely.
I'm sure there are desparate arguments to counter this, but I can't think of any that wouldn't greatly diminish the thematic importance of the Javik story.[/quote]
I can assure you, EA will have no qualms with diminishing the integrity of Javik and his story as long as they get their money. But I'm confident that Bioware is capable of turning their demands into a passable story.
[quote]Rokayt wrote...
1.It would kill the drama of the series.
2.How many of our planets do we keep emergency cryostatis people on? Huh.
I accidentally clicked 5 stars thinking the title read "PROTHEANS WILL NEVER COME TO MULTIPLAYER."
Stupid misclick....[/quote]
I doubt that you read my post because it is fairly clear that I do not yet believe that their is a truly refined and water-proof theory that could put Protheans into the story with no questions asked. However, if it is possible to write them into the story, Bioware can do it.
[quote]LeandroBraz wrote...
The players are clearly divided. Putting protheans they are at the same time risking to loose players and winning some others. Even who don't play the MP will get pissed of when the announce prothean on MP, and they will get even more pissed of if it don't be handled with perfection, giving a SP background to it.
I don't think they will risk to ****** off a already pissed fan base, just to win a group of players for some weeks in the MP. A character is not enough to keep people playing, if they are smart, they will put their affort in something less risk, and that will bring more result, like new enemies and modes.
so there won't be protheans in the SP, whether you like it or not =)
[/quote]
EA does not care about the feelings of the players. They've already bought the game, EA has their money from that customer, time to move onto the next one. However, they will take advantage of a wise business oppurtunity that fans are roaring about. With Bioware to do the lore work, EA will be able to inttoduce Protheans and get money from the large group of players who want to play as them. The pissed off fans left over have already purchased the game and to EA, they no longer matter.
[quote]Star fury wrote...
Wishful thinking.[/quote]
Its fairly obvious that you didn't read my post, because I'm not deluding myself into thinking that it's coming because I want it to happen, but because EA will do what they need to for money.While I'm in favor of Protheans in Multiplayer, under no circumstances do I want the lore ripped apart by another space magic-esque explanation.
[quote]Biotic_Warlock wrote...
Dear OP.
No.[/quote]
Excellent response, glad to see you took this seriously and read the post before typing your incredibly eloquent response. Shakespeare himself would be envious of your mastery of the English language.
Far too long. Also wrong. Destroying any amount of poignancy and relevance the character of Javik has by being hopelessly displaced and alone, long after the rest of his society has been destroyed and built over, just to have a bunch of clones of him suddenly running around wrecking crap because video games is an incredibly shallow demand. Wrong. Bad. No. [/quote]
I did not demand a single thing in my post. I said that because EA's main goal is to make money, they will do what they can to appeal to a large group of players if the outcome could involve making a profit. Adding Protheans to Multiplayer would make them a profit. EA doesn't care about the story as long as they get their money. Bioware cares, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they will object to the demands of their superiors. Instead, I hope they will try their best to introduce more Protheans into the game in a manner that does not simply use space magic as an excuse for a supposedly extinct race to not be extinct, or being cloned or however they choose to revive them.
[quote]Descy_ wrote...
"Protheans are being added in Rebellion, for sure! Here's proof!"
*Rebellion info released*
"Okay, maybe not for Rebellion, but they will be added!"
I dont care if they do add them, but
1. Bioware needs to make a SP DLC explaining it first.
2. Dont get your hopes up that it will always be the next DLC or the next or the next.[/quote]
Check my profile, this thread is my first post ever. I was optimistic about Phoenix = Protheans, but I was open to other possibilities. I never shot down other theories. As for your second bullet point, I will quote the original post:
[quote]Father Superior wrote...
It may not be soon, it may not be free, but rest assured, Protheans will be integrated into Multiplayer.[/quote]
I am in no way expecting the Protheans soon, I'm only expecting them to be brought in eventually.
[quote]Zhuinden wrote...
But... don't you feel that it's ridiculously corny?
Just because the endings mashed the lore of ME into the ground, doesn't mean we should be bouncing on it.[/quote]
I am not asking for them to say that there were a bunch of leftover stasis pods or that the Alliance soldiers guarding him took a DNA sample from Javik before Shepard went to speak with him and sent it to an Alliance testing facility to be experimented on, resulting in Prothean clones. I'm willing to believe whatever Bioware comes up with to explain more Protheans. Bioware controls the lore, they can decide what to do with it.
[quote]known_hero wrote...
For the people who didn't read, he basically says EA will bring Protheans to MP because they are in the money making business and that lore is irreverent. The rest of text is just fluff.
Not really a good argument. If that's the case, why not bring in Issac Clark from dead space or Lightning from Final Fantasy. MP ties into SP so it has to make sense. To bring in a bunch of Protheans soldiers without any kind of explanation would just be big slap in the overall story's face. [/quote]
That is one god awful summary. By trying to condense my post into a single sentence, you make it seem like I don't care about lore and that I am being condescending towards those who are not in favor of Protheans in Multiplayer. I care very much about the lore and will be disappointed if there is no reasoning for Protheans in Multiplayer, but I am confident that Bioware will come up with a well thought-out explanation. Also, what I wrote in the original post was not "fluff", it was text that I included as a means of explaining how I feel and why. Judging by your treatment of my post, I can assume that you are anti-Prothean and of all people, Anti-Protheans should be open to an argument stated in an intelligent and reasonable way.
[quote]Rite All Wrong wrote...
You really drank the Kool-Aid, didn't you?
So... I read your wall of text and I can see you've got a lot of ideas and a lot of faith in BW. What I can not see in there however is a single compelling argument for Protheans in MP.
[/quote]
I did not "drink the Kool-aid", the Indoctrination Theory is a completely sound and possible theory. But that is not a discussion for this thread. This thread is about Protheans in Multiplayer and I did not provide an argument for my side because I am not trying to justify putting Protheans into Multiplayer, I am trying to explain why it is unavoidable. EA does not care about the lore and they control whether DLC will be released. They would gladly sell you a placebo as a cancer cure and feel no remorse as you die. But if you truly believe EA gives the slightest of ****s about whether or not you enjoy your game or its lore, then not only have you been drinking the Kool-Aid, you've been snorting the powder.
[quote]XxTaLoNxX wrote...
Jeez OP. I want Protheans as well. But you don't see me claiming to be the "only one with clarity on the issue".
Uhhhh get over yourself?[/quote]
You misunderstood what I said. I meant that I have the clarity in this situation because out of all of the threads I have visited regarding Protheans in Multiplayer, I did not recall seeing a single user mention EA's greed ensuring their future appearance. Though after reading my post again, I do see how that could be interpreted differently. I should have been more clear.
[quote]jaDanger wrote...
The issue is thematic as well as simple lore. Javik's entire story is about him being a ghost from the past, representing a lost race, and being the last of his kind. It's about how he comes to grips with that. His final words in the game are a reflection on that exact theme.
Surprise Javik, actually there are a bunch more!
Cloning programs in Mass Effect are always huge and laced with failure. They also almost exclusively involve krogan, suggesting there is lots of race specific research to back that up, potentially since the rachni wars. The kakliosaur was a bit of a joke from the devs, plus would not need any imprinting as they are used as mounts and not fully intelligent species.
There is no evidence that a full prothean cloning program could be initiated and completed in the time from Javik's discovery to the final conflict.
Suddenly finding a bunch of stasis pods that we never noticed is equally unlikely.
I'm sure there are desparate arguments to counter this, but I can't think of any that wouldn't greatly diminish the thematic importance of the Javik story.[/quote]
I can assure you, EA will have no qualms with diminishing the integrity of Javik and his story as long as they get their money. But I'm confident that Bioware is capable of turning their demands into a passable story.
[quote]Rokayt wrote...
1.It would kill the drama of the series.
2.How many of our planets do we keep emergency cryostatis people on? Huh.
I accidentally clicked 5 stars thinking the title read "PROTHEANS WILL NEVER COME TO MULTIPLAYER."
Stupid misclick....[/quote]
I doubt that you read my post because it is fairly clear that I do not yet believe that their is a truly refined and water-proof theory that could put Protheans into the story with no questions asked. However, if it is possible to write them into the story, Bioware can do it.
[quote]LeandroBraz wrote...
The players are clearly divided. Putting protheans they are at the same time risking to loose players and winning some others. Even who don't play the MP will get pissed of when the announce prothean on MP, and they will get even more pissed of if it don't be handled with perfection, giving a SP background to it.
I don't think they will risk to ****** off a already pissed fan base, just to win a group of players for some weeks in the MP. A character is not enough to keep people playing, if they are smart, they will put their affort in something less risk, and that will bring more result, like new enemies and modes.
so there won't be protheans in the SP, whether you like it or not =)
[/quote]
EA does not care about the feelings of the players. They've already bought the game, EA has their money from that customer, time to move onto the next one. However, they will take advantage of a wise business oppurtunity that fans are roaring about. With Bioware to do the lore work, EA will be able to inttoduce Protheans and get money from the large group of players who want to play as them. The pissed off fans left over have already purchased the game and to EA, they no longer matter.
[quote]Star fury wrote...
Wishful thinking.[/quote]
Its fairly obvious that you didn't read my post, because I'm not deluding myself into thinking that it's coming because I want it to happen, but because EA will do what they need to for money.While I'm in favor of Protheans in Multiplayer, under no circumstances do I want the lore ripped apart by another space magic-esque explanation.
[quote]Biotic_Warlock wrote...
Dear OP.
No.[/quote]
Excellent response, glad to see you took this seriously and read the post before typing your incredibly eloquent response. Shakespeare himself would be envious of your mastery of the English language.
#89
Posté 25 mai 2012 - 03:03
TheKingBoar
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- Members
- 284 messages
jaDanger wrote...
TheKingBoar wrote...
jaDanger wrote...
ericjdev wrote...
They are coming eventually, the whole 'Phoenix' thing was just to gauge customer response/demand.
Lore doesn't matter in MP at all, just playability.
But it does matter to Bioware. They said they only wanted to add multiplayer if it could fit the story, and generally speaking it does. I don't think the multiplayer is meant to be viewed from the perspective of the community, but rather as individual players, so running into a justicar in your squad of 4 is plausible. As a matter of fact, having quarians on your team even if the quarians were wiped out is still plausible as quarians would be spread out for pilgrimages and the like. It just becomes more meamingful if you successfuly recruited them.
Thekingboar is missing the point of thematic resonance. Javik and the protheans had a story, and javik's conflictedness and resolution over the death of his race was central to it. The sacrifice of the protheans to aid a cycle they would never see was central to it. Javik was the avatar of that sacrifice, in addition to being the avatar of vengeance. Ressurecting the rachni wasn't a theme, it was a plot, and as interesting a plot as it was, it had its own questions and meanings. It has nothing to do with the themes of the Javik plot. Rachni were from this cycle. They do not represent the sacrifice of previous cycles. Theme and story are not "shields", they are what defines the franchise.
I would argue in your case it's a shield. Again, nothing about there being more Prothean's damages Javik's storyline, especially if they take place well into his storyline. His story still has all it's power and can then switch to something else, a theme of rebuilding and rebirth. It would certainly fall on the least absurd things the franchise has done. The Prothean's goal was never to help the next cycle, it was to survive and dominate it. Javik wasn't just supposed to get vengance, he was to lead a new Prothean empire.
I think you convinced me. Bioware, you should use cloning to bring back all the characters who have died in the last few games. I liked kaiden and ashley, and It's important that bioware give the fans what they want. My mp squad will be me, ashley, and cloned Kaiden. We could replace the theme of sacrifice and loss from ME3 with a happier theme of rebirth and rebuilding, let the reapers destroy all life, we'll just be cloning everyone back, over here where they won't notice. We could do it on the hidden planet full of functional stasis pods that the reapers never noticed.
I think the key is broadening the appeal of the series generally. People think protheans would be cool. Add protheans. People also love first person, so let's get rid of the powers and go that direction. The space thing is kinda old fashioned circa star wars, so lets go with a modern military setting, more people choose them than anything. It will be nothing like CoD though because it will have protheans. I'm glad i finally listened to you guys.
Someone who bases an argument on a slippery slope concept, facisious or not, is not worth arguing with.
#90
Posté 25 mai 2012 - 03:07
AmpTuttle
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Seer235 wrote...
Time Travel.
Dinosaurs are the new enemy.
Reaper Dinosaurs.
#91
Posté 25 mai 2012 - 03:26
eye basher
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Why would i want a massive prothean army found javik pretty much tells you what the protheans think about other races that they were below them.Javik tells you to your face that every time they found a new race they gave them only one choice to join the prothean empire or die why would i want people like that around.
#92
Posté 25 mai 2012 - 03:34
corporal doody
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i HOPE they dont give us Protheans to play. Javik IS THE LAST PROTHEAN!!
to me...it would be like jumping the SHARK!!!
make it so there are prothean something-something hybrids..were cloning is not feasible so they took prothean dna and mixed it or some junk....OKAY...so long as the lore works. BUT HELLZ NAH to a ton of Protheans
Collector BADGUYS? HELLZ TO THE Futha Muckin YEAH!!!!
to me...it would be like jumping the SHARK!!!
make it so there are prothean something-something hybrids..were cloning is not feasible so they took prothean dna and mixed it or some junk....OKAY...so long as the lore works. BUT HELLZ NAH to a ton of Protheans
Collector BADGUYS? HELLZ TO THE Futha Muckin YEAH!!!!
#93
Posté 25 mai 2012 - 03:47
Fluffeh Kitteh
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Father Superior wrote...
You may be wondering "How does all of this fit together and more importantly, how does this ensure Protheans in Multiplayer?" The answer is simple: Javik. All of Javik's animations, powers and other mechanics have already been made for the game. These gaming mechanics undoubtedly required a lot of effort and, in my humble opinion, are extremely well done. The idea of Bioware not importing into Multiplayer something that they worked so hard on is laughable at best
Just cos they worked on something in Singleplayer doesn't imply they'll put it in Multiplayer. Here's a list of things that Bioware probably worked hard on in SP but aren't featured in MP, at least not yet:
- Facial customisation for humans
- Armour customisation (we already have things like helmets for Turians, Salarians and Krogan yet they arent available as customisation options in MP)
- Cerberus Synthetic (like squadmate EDI), which like Javik has its own model and powers and Mechanics, etc.
- Heavy weapons like the Firestorm and Geth Spitfire
- New enemies like the collectors, which were already fully-developed in-game enemies in ME2.
...so is it "laughable" that all these things aren't in MP? Like the Prothean, I'm sure Bioware did invest considerable effort into making those things right?
I dunno.... looking at the way you posed your argument, one could easily make a similar thread saying Cerberus Synthetics will come to MP whether you like it or not. The only difference is probably they won't have a huge wall of text to wax lyrical about how awesome Cerberus Synthetics are (aside from maybe having a lot of padding when they walk into a wall)
Modifié par Fluffeh Kitteh, 25 mai 2012 - 03:51 .
#94
Posté 25 mai 2012 - 03:48
knightshieldatr
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So there are so many Ardat-Yakshi that the Reapers have an endless supply to convert into Banshees? The Justicars are a small order, yet there seem to be plenty of Asari with Justicar training. None of these things have been explained via lore, yet that is the situation in MP.
#95
Posté 25 mai 2012 - 03:51
fallingseraph
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Fluffeh Kitteh wrote...
Father Superior wrote...
You may be wondering "How does all of this fit together and more importantly, how does this ensure Protheans in Multiplayer?" The answer is simple: Javik. All of Javik's animations, powers and other mechanics have already been made for the game. These gaming mechanics undoubtedly required a lot of effort and, in my humble opinion, are extremely well done. The idea of Bioware not importing into Multiplayer something that they worked so hard on is laughable at best
Just cos they worked on something in Singleplayer doesn't imply they'll put it in Multiplayer. Here's a list of things that Bioware probably worked hard on in SP but aren't featured in MP, at least not yet:
- Facial customisation for humans
- Armour customisation (we already have things like helmets for Turians, Salarians and Krogan yet they arent available as customisation options in MP)
- Cerberus Synthetic (like squadmate EDI), which like Javik has its own model and powers and Mechanics, etc.
- Heavy weapons like the Firestorm and Geth Spitfire
- New enemies like the collectors, which were already fully-developed in-game enemies in ME2.
...so is it "laughable" that all these things aren't in MP? Like the Prothean, I'm sure Bioware did invest considerable effort into making those things right?
Exactly.
The lore went to **** when the end came. Now Specters are from all Races. Why not Javik clones?
#96
Posté 25 mai 2012 - 03:53
PossibleCabbage
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DoctorEss wrote...
For all you lore-obsessives, tell me something: Why do we have a veritable army of human biotics? HUMAN BIOTICS ARE RARE. Yet, in MP, we've got millions of them.
The actual lore puts us as a race for whom biotics are very rare, yet, the MP has a neverending supply.
I hope no one actually thinks that every front of this war is being manned by four person squads. I'd think that you'd want to send elite commando squads to some engagements, while others would be better manned by whole platoons. Biotics are signfiicantly more likely to be deployed in elite commando squads, whereas general purpose marine infantry are most likely normal humans (augmented with technology just like everybody is.)
There's no inconsistency here with the lore, since the multiplayer represents a very small window on the entire war effort, and the sorts of engagements portayed in the MP are precisely the sort of engagements for which talented combat biotics are best suited, and therefore they would be overrepresented proportionally to their percentage of the population.
#97
Posté 25 mai 2012 - 03:58
WaffleCrab
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I would love some protheans too, but then you can throw the lore to a carbage bin. and say hello to an array of new and exiting characters....
The elcor merchants, their once in a lifetime deals are truly the last deal you get during your life.
Krogan riders. riding into battle with cloned kakliosaurs(Spare DNA taken from my little ponies so mind the rainbows)
Hanars with an omniblade in every tentacle... or some other omni "tool" wink wink fem shep users.
Or who knows... maybe they will open the door for playable starchild characters
"The reapers are our solution" i would seriously want to see a playable starchild
The elcor merchants, their once in a lifetime deals are truly the last deal you get during your life.
Krogan riders. riding into battle with cloned kakliosaurs(Spare DNA taken from my little ponies so mind the rainbows)
Hanars with an omniblade in every tentacle... or some other omni "tool" wink wink fem shep users.
Or who knows... maybe they will open the door for playable starchild characters
"The reapers are our solution" i would seriously want to see a playable starchild
#98
Posté 25 mai 2012 - 06:04
TacoknightIV
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To those saying that the protheans had all this cryogenics planned, they didnt. The reapers attacked, and they had to find a desperate survival mechanism, which was cryo. Ilos was a rush, and so was Eden Prime, they just simply didnt have the time to do more then that.
#99
Posté 25 mai 2012 - 07:37
Pitznik
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Protheans vs Reapers war lasted for centuries. That is enough time for lot of stuff.TacoknightIV wrote...
To those saying that the protheans had all this cryogenics planned, they didnt. The reapers attacked, and they had to find a desperate survival mechanism, which was cryo. Ilos was a rush, and so was Eden Prime, they just simply didnt have the time to do more then that.
#100
Posté 25 mai 2012 - 07:40
jaDanger
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TheKingBoar wrote...
jaDanger wrote...
TheKingBoar wrote...
jaDanger wrote...
ericjdev wrote...
They are coming eventually, the whole 'Phoenix' thing was just to gauge customer response/demand.
Lore doesn't matter in MP at all, just playability.
But it does matter to Bioware. They said they only wanted to add multiplayer if it could fit the story, and generally speaking it does. I don't think the multiplayer is meant to be viewed from the perspective of the community, but rather as individual players, so running into a justicar in your squad of 4 is plausible. As a matter of fact, having quarians on your team even if the quarians were wiped out is still plausible as quarians would be spread out for pilgrimages and the like. It just becomes more meamingful if you successfuly recruited them.
Thekingboar is missing the point of thematic resonance. Javik and the protheans had a story, and javik's conflictedness and resolution over the death of his race was central to it. The sacrifice of the protheans to aid a cycle they would never see was central to it. Javik was the avatar of that sacrifice, in addition to being the avatar of vengeance. Ressurecting the rachni wasn't a theme, it was a plot, and as interesting a plot as it was, it had its own questions and meanings. It has nothing to do with the themes of the Javik plot. Rachni were from this cycle. They do not represent the sacrifice of previous cycles. Theme and story are not "shields", they are what defines the franchise.
I would argue in your case it's a shield. Again, nothing about there being more Prothean's damages Javik's storyline, especially if they take place well into his storyline. His story still has all it's power and can then switch to something else, a theme of rebuilding and rebirth. It would certainly fall on the least absurd things the franchise has done. The Prothean's goal was never to help the next cycle, it was to survive and dominate it. Javik wasn't just supposed to get vengance, he was to lead a new Prothean empire.
I think you convinced me. Bioware, you should use cloning to bring back all the characters who have died in the last few games. I liked kaiden and ashley, and It's important that bioware give the fans what they want. My mp squad will be me, ashley, and cloned Kaiden. We could replace the theme of sacrifice and loss from ME3 with a happier theme of rebirth and rebuilding, let the reapers destroy all life, we'll just be cloning everyone back, over here where they won't notice. We could do it on the hidden planet full of functional stasis pods that the reapers never noticed.
I think the key is broadening the appeal of the series generally. People think protheans would be cool. Add protheans. People also love first person, so let's get rid of the powers and go that direction. The space thing is kinda old fashioned circa star wars, so lets go with a modern military setting, more people choose them than anything. It will be nothing like CoD though because it will have protheans. I'm glad i finally listened to you guys.
Someone who bases an argument on a slippery slope concept, facisious or not, is not worth arguing with.
You are certainly creative. Your spelling of facetious proves that. Admittedly the CoD argument was a bit extreme, but it was to illusyrate the point that others have made that lore, an essential part of the mass effect experience, should be cut from MP. Some argue the connection is already shaky, but the reasons they give demonstrate an incomplete knowledge of SP (geth on tuchanka for instance, is in line with the pockets of geth that could not be saved from reaper control, or too many justicars around when the max in a squad is 4).
The first part was for you. Its not a slippery slope fallacy (although saying I am beneath your contempt as an adversary wreaks of a certain crude fallaciousness), its a question of where to draw the line. I say discovering protheans clashes with the thematic journey undertaken by Javik, undermining his dramatic arc. You say it wouldn't because it would make Javik happy. Well ressurecting Kaiden through cloning would make shepherd happy, but that sacrifice had meaning to the story. So did Javiks. A hidden stash of protheans cheapens it.
