262 réponses à ce sujet

[dreman9999]

Kaelef wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Kaelef wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

2. If they are with my enemy and has ahistory of making plans of deceving me...Trust is always an issue. When someone give me salutions that don't solve my problemsin any way, shape or form....The though a deception is a wise one.

I don't think the Catalyst is trying to deceive Shepard.  BW doesn't present the character that way.  Maybe you're right, but if you are, then it's another case of bad writing.

3.Justpointing out you opening a can of worms with the way your going. My point is there is not reason for his mind to make some new form for his eyes and if thatis the case then noth Shepard sees can be trusted. We don't even knowif he woke up. Let not for get the TIM was controling Shepard with indoctriantion moments earlier, what to say the reaper did try to us indoctriantion is a new tactic. Based on what your saying...Shepard is Hallucinating.

He could be hallucianting, but that's not the way I interpreted the scene.  You asked if there was proof that he woke up, and there is no proof that he woke up.  The last five minutes of the game could all be happening in "heaven".  (Though, again, that is not what I think was happening.)

I proposed that Shepard could be creating an image for the Catalyst where there is no vision that we could (easily) interpret.  Just as when we hear and understand the messages left by the Protheans, we are hearing Shepard's interpretation of those messages, not the original, meaningless sounds.

I think it's ironic that an IT believer wants to stick with a literal interpretation of what we see in the game.

1. How is it bad writing to follow something like"don't trust the reapers" that has been astablished?
2.If Shepard's mind is making the image...He is hallucinating...That's what Hallucinations are.

3. The think is jumping into a topic and just saying it's a dream doesn't cut it to provr the arguement. To prove it, all levels of theperseption of the ending must be argued. I don't beleive everything in the end is real, but I'm argueing on the basis that it is real to point out that something is wrong even if it is real.

1. Because the character of the "lies" you say the Catalyst is presenting us with is distinctly different from any manipulation the Reapers ever attempt.

2. Shepard's mind also made the vision and sound of the Promethean messages we saw and heard.  The other characters didn't see or hear the same thing.  You're saying those were hallucinations, too.

3. Sorry, I couldn't understand what you tried to say here.

1. Organics undergoing indoctrination may complain of headaches and buzzing or ringing in their ears. As time passes, they have feelings of "being watched" and hallucinations of "ghostly" presences.
http://masseffect.wi...#Indoctrination
Added the only way for aplayer to know via cutscenehas to be indoctriated

2.Javik and Liara saw the visions in Shep's mind as well.
3.It's better to argue on the point that is real to show it's flawed.

[dreman9999]

Opsrbest wrote...

@ Dreman9999:

1. Ever notice how Vega is the only other crew member to exhibit "indoctrination" signs? If you believe in IDT you probably have. Just as you know it's a weak argument to use for any of the theories IDT has. One of the criteria met to exhibit indoctrination does not make an indoctrinated member. The "ghostly presence" is defined in game if you follow the exploration dialogue as Shepard's own admission of mental stress from what has been experienced, so even then the comparison is mistaken between "indoctrination" and a ghostly presence.


2. The Beacon message was superimposed or burned into Shepards mind, through as Javik tells us, a form of sensory telepathy. The same sensory telepathy that Asari exhibit with the whole "Embrace Eternity" thing.

3. "He tasks me. He tasks me and I shall have him! I'll chase him 'round the moons of Nibia and 'round the Antares Maelstrom and 'round Perdition's flames before I give him up!"

1. This can easily be coutor by pointing to the fact that when TIM control Shepard and Anderson, nearly every symtom of inctrination pops up.

2.But it is prove to be real. That is my point. Nothing after Shepard has been cut down is shown to be real nor the star child.

3.You do know that IT is about about trying to brake free of the white whale, right?

Modifié par dreman9999, 25 mai 2012 - 06:20 .

[Kaelef]

                        
         




                      
     
               








                                                                         

[dreman9999]

Kaelef wrote...


                        
         




                      
     
               








                                                                         

[Leafs43]

Kaelef wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...


I'm not jumping to any conclusions.  Because the forum has a crappy multi-quote system is the only reason why I don't just quote all yourstuff.


But this is the synopsis of your thoughts from page 5 to now.



Like I said, you're all over the place.

Wow.  I've never seen anyone blame the quoting system for not being able to make their point.  Just admit you're wrong about this and let it go.  Geeze.

So I am wrong because I paraphrase rather than quote?


It's so clear you have contradicted yourself.

We can make this very simple:  

Does the catalyst require Shperd's mind to produce a projection?


Either way you answer you are going to contradict yourself.  And I'll quote it.

Modifié par Leafs43, 25 mai 2012 - 06:59 .

[TeffexPope]

Leafs43 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

You sound like a religious zealot.

Wow.

Actually I fashion myself out of someone who pursues the truth.


And I can assume because you are using an ad hominem you really have no rebuttal.

Yeah that was really random and unecessary of taboo. And stinks of intolerance.

[Ageless Face]

The catalyst created giant machines to harvest and destroy organics. I'm pretty sure reading minds is not a problem for him.

Or it could be just Shepard is picturing the catalyst from something familiar, like the mission watching the quarians and the geth past.

Or bad writing. Take your pick.

[christrek1982]

as I have said if you can give me a satisfying answer to the plot hole that is EMS and how it works with IT the you will have me on side until then I'm sorry but I will have to pass.

[Gulaman]

I agree that they had gotten into Sheps head. Doesn't mean he's indoctrinated though, or that the entire sequence was a hallucination. Also I would add lazy writing as a cause yo why Shep perceived the catalyst as that kid.

[ImmovableMover]

There is no evidence to infer that the StarChild is a reaper, you're only stating that it must be a reaper because that's what would fit IT...Thus you are begging the question. Claiming that the only way Shepard could have had his mind read is through indoctrination is, again, begging the question.

I think the Vegas odds, High probability, reason the starchild is the starCHILD and looks like the dead kid from Earth is because whoever "Wrote" the ending was buried particularly deep in their arse on that day and decided to crow-bar in pretentious, artsy "Symbolism" into the final act in the most unsubtle way possible - The ending is full of it. If only they'd remembered they were writing a fairly straightforward sci-fi plotline and that they weren't the reincarnation of Franz Kafka, perhaps then we would have gotten something less terribly written.

[CroGamer002]

What's next IT guys?

I'll be accused on being a Free Mason who had sex with some alien that owns everything humanity produces?

[Dean_the_Young]

The OP ignores a number of means, both in-universe and in fiction in general, in which subjective experience makes visualization depend on the viewer.