262 réponses à ce sujet

[Kaelef]

Leafs43 wrote...

Kaelef wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...

If the catalyst jumps around the galaxy at will (let's say through other computers and synthetics) through various cycles, almost like a sentient being, how is it not an extremely advanced AI?

Your mind works in mysterious ways.

Shepard can jump around the galaxy at will.  Are you saying he's an extremely advanced AI?

AI really stands for synthetic free will in this instance.

Okay.






"Galaxy" really stands for "the Milky Way" in this instance.

Modifié par Kaelef, 25 mai 2012 - 03:12 .

[covertdrizzt]

Leafs43 wrote...

covertdrizzt wrote...

To Op: The catalyst shows up as that kid because Bioware was going to have you be indoctrinated at the end. They had trouble making this work and were running out of time. They didn't have time to go back and change the whole game. In the current ending the kid is just like the architect in the matrix. This is what happens when you try to change an ending at the end of your production time limit. They just slapped that ending together with what they had at the last minute,

Even if a mistake, we have to take it as canon.

Thus we have to explain how canon occurred.

No because they are changing it/adding to it. There is no cannon until E.C. is complete. I just told you how it occurred.  Believe it or don't.

[Leafs43]

covertdrizzt wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...

covertdrizzt wrote...

To Op: The catalyst shows up as that kid because Bioware was going to have you be indoctrinated at the end. They had trouble making this work and were running out of time. They didn't have time to go back and change the whole game. In the current ending the kid is just like the architect in the matrix. This is what happens when you try to change an ending at the end of your production time limit. They just slapped that ending together with what they had at the last minute,

Even if a mistake, we have to take it as canon.

Thus we have to explain how canon occurred.

No because they are changing it/adding to it. There is no cannon until E.C. is complete. I just told you how it occurred.  Believe it or don't.

They said star kid is staying put.  He is for all intents and purposes canon and will likely stay canon.

[Kaelef]

Leafs43
I'm honestly not clear about one thing: What point have you been trying to make throughout this thread?

[Leafs43]

Kaelef wrote...

Leafs43
I'm honestly not clear about one thing: What point have you been trying to make throughout this thread?

IT or not; the reapers are manipulating Shepard mentally as long as you acknowledge the existence of the catalyst..


Just like the title says.



If you don't acknowledge the existence of the catalyst, you really go into IT territory.

Modifié par Leafs43, 25 mai 2012 - 03:19 .

[covertdrizzt]

Random Jerkface wrote...

covertdrizzt wrote...

To Op: The catalyst shows up as that kid because Bioware was going to have you be indoctrinated at the end. They had trouble making this work and were running out of time. They didn't have time to go back and change the whole game. In the current ending the kid is just like the architect in the matrix. This is what happens when you try to change an ending at the end of your production time limit. They just slapped that ending together with what they had at the last minute,

[citation needed]

From final hours app.

On Deciding the End of the Game
The illusive man boss fight had been scrapped... but there was still much debate. On night walters scribbled down some thought on various ways the game could end with the line "Lots of speculation for Everyone!" at the bottom of the page.
And even in November the gameplay team was still experimenting with an endgame sequence where players would suddenly lose control of Shepard's movement and fall under full reaper control. (This sequence was dropped because the gaemplay mechanic proved too troublesome to implement alongside dialogue choices).

[Kaelef]

Leafs43 wrote...

Kaelef wrote...

Leafs43
I'm honestly not clear about one thing: What point have you been trying to make throughout this thread?

IT or not; the reapers are manipulating Shepard mentally as long as you acknowledge the existence of the catalyst..


Just like the title says.

It just seemed like you were trying to prove that the Catalyst was reading Shepard's mind.  Which, even if true, would not prove that they were manipulating it.  Reading =/= writing.

If you don't acknowledge the existence of the catalyst, you really go into IT territory.

I've never denied the Catalyst's existence. 

Modifié par Kaelef, 25 mai 2012 - 03:21 .

[Leafs43]

Kaelef wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...

Kaelef wrote...

Leafs43
I'm honestly not clear about one thing: What point have you been trying to make throughout this thread?

IT or not; the reapers are manipulating Shepard mentally as long as you acknowledge the existence of the catalyst..


Just like the title says.

It just seemed like you were trying to prove that the Catalyst was reading Shepard's mind.  Which, even if true, would not prove that they were manipulating it.  Reading =/= writing.

Reading != writing, but just showing up as the kid itself shows the catalyst is definitely reading something and is there to manipulate.



This is why I direct it anti-IT'ers because its obvious that the catalyst has ulterior motives.

Modifié par Leafs43, 25 mai 2012 - 03:23 .

[Leafs43]

Kaelef wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...

If you don't acknowledge the existence of the catalyst, you really go into IT territory.

I've never denied the Catalyst's existence. 

Meant more as a disclaimer.

[Kaelef]

Leafs43 wrote...

Reading != writing, but just showing up as the kid itself shows the catalyst is definitely reading something and is there to manipulate.

That's certainly one way to interpret the proceedings.  It's hardly the only way.

[darthoptimus003]

IT is crap and so is the ending
this EC better be worth the 300+ hrs i put into this series

[covertdrizzt]

Leafs43 wrote...

covertdrizzt wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...

covertdrizzt wrote...

To Op: The catalyst shows up as that kid because Bioware was going to have you be indoctrinated at the end. They had trouble making this work and were running out of time. They didn't have time to go back and change the whole game. In the current ending the kid is just like the architect in the matrix. This is what happens when you try to change an ending at the end of your production time limit. They just slapped that ending together with what they had at the last minute,

Even if a mistake, we have to take it as canon.

Thus we have to explain how canon occurred.

No because they are changing it/adding to it. There is no cannon until E.C. is complete. I just told you how it occurred.  Believe it or don't.

They said star kid is staying put.  He is for all intents and purposes canon and will likely stay canon.

I never said they were going to remove him.  They will most likely explain him though. That explanation will change everything. I'm not sure how they will do this.  They may go back to th original plan with indoctrination.  Speculation on an unfinished work of fiction is futile.

[KevShep]

Kaelef wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...

Reading != writing, but just showing up as the kid itself shows the catalyst is definitely reading something and is there to manipulate.

That's certainly one way to interpret the proceedings.  It's hardly the only way.

 As the guide of Mass Effect says....The boy is a symbolic of hope and loss. If the catalyst is in this form then it means that he IS trying to mess with shepards head because the boy is not symbolic of anything else.

So no there is only one interpretation...They are trying to get to shepards weak spots.

Modifié par KevShep, 25 mai 2012 - 03:29 .

[Leafs43]

Kaelef wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...

Reading != writing, but just showing up as the kid itself shows the catalyst is definitely reading something and is there to manipulate.

That's certainly one way to interpret the proceedings.  It's hardly the only way.

I look at it this way; the catalyst could have shown up as anything.  It could have shown up as a squadmate, as a LI, as a past species, as a current species, as a glowing ball of glowing., etc...


But it specifically shows up as the kid which of whom only Shepard sees and dreams about.  As literary devices go, once is a anamoly, twice is a coincidence, three times is evidence.  The kid shows up more than 3 times.

[Kaelef]

Leafs43 wrote...

Kaelef wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...

Reading != writing, but just showing up as the kid itself shows the catalyst is definitely reading something and is there to manipulate.

That's certainly one way to interpret the proceedings.  It's hardly the only way.

I look at it this way; the catalyst could have shown up as anything.  It could have shown up as a squadmate, as a LI, as a past species, as a current species, as a glowing ball of glowing., etc...


But it specifically shows up as the kid which of whom only Shepard sees and dreams about.  As literary devices go, once is a anamoly, twice is a coincidence, three times is evidence.  The kid shows up more than 3 times.

I look at it this way: Shepard thinks of the kid in two different situations after seeing him once in a way that affected him emotionally very deeply.

It's important as a literary device, but I disagree on what the artist is trying to say.

Modifié par Kaelef, 25 mai 2012 - 03:32 .

[dreman9999]

jsadalia wrote...

The catalyst is not a reaper. We don't know what it is.

He tells you he is in charge of the reapers and controls them...That makes him part of them.

[Leafs43]

Kaelef wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...

Kaelef wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...

Reading != writing, but just showing up as the kid itself shows the catalyst is definitely reading something and is there to manipulate.

That's certainly one way to interpret the proceedings.  It's hardly the only way.

I look at it this way; the catalyst could have shown up as anything.  It could have shown up as a squadmate, as a LI, as a past species, as a current species, as a glowing ball of glowing., etc...


But it specifically shows up as the kid which of whom only Shepard sees and dreams about.  As literary devices go, once is a anamoly, twice is a coincidence, three times is evidence.  The kid shows up more than 3 times.

I look at it this way: Shepard thinks of the kid in two different situations after seeing him once in a way that affected him emotionally very deeply.

And the catalyst knows of the kid somehow.  

[Kaelef]

dreman9999 wrote...

jsadalia wrote...

The catalyst is not a reaper. We don't know what it is.

He tells you he is in charge of the reapers and controls them...That makes him part of them.

You control your car, does that make you an automobile?

[Kaelef]

Leafs43 wrote...

Kaelef wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...

Kaelef wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...

Reading != writing, but just showing up as the kid itself shows the catalyst is definitely reading something and is there to manipulate.

That's certainly one way to interpret the proceedings.  It's hardly the only way.

I look at it this way; the catalyst could have shown up as anything.  It could have shown up as a squadmate, as a LI, as a past species, as a current species, as a glowing ball of glowing., etc...


But it specifically shows up as the kid which of whom only Shepard sees and dreams about.  As literary devices go, once is a anamoly, twice is a coincidence, three times is evidence.  The kid shows up more than 3 times.

I look at it this way: Shepard thinks of the kid in two different situations after seeing him once in a way that affected him emotionally very deeply.

And the catalyst knows of the kid somehow.  

Only if that's the only way you can conceive of that scene. 

[dreman9999]

jsadalia wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...

jsadalia wrote...

The catalyst is not a reaper. We don't know what it is.

The catlyst is a reaper.

In his 14 lines of dialog he uses pluralities when addressing himself and the reapers.

"We know you have though about destroying us."

A man and a woman are in a restaurant.  "We'd like a booth, please," says the man.

By your logic he's a woman.

Logicly, we would know they are together and they are human....The question is not what type of human he is.
The statement refers to not only that he is with the reapers but in charge.

[soulprovider]

It shows up as a kid, to me it in no way looks like the kid from Shepard's dreams, size and facial features are just too different.

I think the AI picked a human child from the databanks to use as a means to deter anger, think about how retail managers are taught to smile at a customer complaint because it disarms the customer's anger, thus allowing the manager to calm the customer down and get to the bottom of the issue for the most part if you don't work in retail it works fine, if you work in reatil though thats a different story altogether because you know what the manager is trying to do and that is be dismissive, but I digress, Would anyone really scream or rage at a young child, sure you may get angry but for the most part to physically harm a child is frowned upon and thats the thinking that went into that scene, the catalyst is meant to disarm shepard from making a rash decision out of anger. If anything all it proves is that bioware's lead writer has worked in retail before or has payed attention to a retail enviroment before nothing else.

It may use the same VO, but its already been established by tali's photo and the last epilogue scene that bioware cut a few corners to shave off some time.

Modifié par soulprovider, 25 mai 2012 - 03:39 .

[dreman9999]

Kaelef wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

jsadalia wrote...

The catalyst is not a reaper. We don't know what it is.

He tells you he is in charge of the reapers and controls them...That makes him part of them.

You control your car, does that make you an automobile?

But my car don't have it's own will and I don't say"You goingto destroy us" When someone says they are going to destroy my car.

[Kaelef]

dreman9999 wrote...

Kaelef wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

jsadalia wrote...

The catalyst is not a reaper. We don't know what it is.

He tells you he is in charge of the reapers and controls them...That makes him part of them.

You control your car, does that make you an automobile?

But my car don't have it's own will and I don't say"You goingto destroy us" When someone says they are going to destroy my car.

And that proves what exactly?

[KevShep]

Re-posted:

As the guide of Mass Effect says....The boy is a symbolic of hope and loss. If the catalyst is in this form then it means that he IS trying to mess with shepards head because the boy is not symbolic of anything else.

So no, there is only one interpretation...They are trying to get to shepards weak spots(indoctrination).

[Leafs43]

Kaelef wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...

Kaelef wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...

Kaelef wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...

Reading != writing, but just showing up as the kid itself shows the catalyst is definitely reading something and is there to manipulate.

That's certainly one way to interpret the proceedings.  It's hardly the only way.

I look at it this way; the catalyst could have shown up as anything.  It could have shown up as a squadmate, as a LI, as a past species, as a current species, as a glowing ball of glowing., etc...


But it specifically shows up as the kid which of whom only Shepard sees and dreams about.  As literary devices go, once is a anamoly, twice is a coincidence, three times is evidence.  The kid shows up more than 3 times.

I look at it this way: Shepard thinks of the kid in two different situations after seeing him once in a way that affected him emotionally very deeply.

And the catalyst knows of the kid somehow.  

Only if that's the only way you can conceive of that scene. 

That's the only way to conceive the scene as I kind of checkmated you on this.

You admitted that the catalyst can maybe move freely (crucible studying).  Therefore the catalyst isn't Shepard's own mind projecting and the catalyst is its own tangible being.



Like I said, you come to the same conclusion no matter the path you take.