262 réponses à ce sujet

[Leafs43]

Candoo wrote...

Kaelef wrote...

For reasons unknown, you believe you've "checkmated" me somehow.

Kaelef, I have read this whole thread, and it seems his ego to be right is getting the better of him, to the point where he is trying to twist what you say, to make it seem that you agree with him.

I twist nothing.

Kaelef made some logical assumptions, I provided some counter points, which leads to other logical points which actually end up woorking against him.

[Leafs43]

Swimming Ferret wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...

Swimming Ferret wrote...

The Catalyst is NOT a Reaper. He only controls them.

That's like saying all the geth, while they were under control of the Reaper Destroyer, were Reapers.

The catalyst is controlling the reapers to be murderous machines ergo the catalyst is the one supplying the reapers with their objectives.  

...That's what I said, he's controlling them, but he isn't one.

Ya, he is just Hitler to the SS.....way different.

[Kaelef]

Candoo wrote...

Kaelef wrote...

For reasons unknown, you believe you've "checkmated" me somehow.

Kaelef, I have read this whole thread, and it seems his ego to be right is getting the better of him, to the point where he is trying to twist what you say, to make it seem that you agree with him.

That was my interpretation, too, but it's nice to have external confirmation.

I believe he really believes I agree with him, though.  Which I find somewhat disturbing...

[dreman9999]

Swimming Ferret wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...

Swimming Ferret wrote...

The Catalyst is NOT a Reaper. He only controls them.

That's like saying all the geth, while they were under control of the Reaper Destroyer, were Reapers.

The catalyst is controlling the reapers to be murderous machines ergo the catalyst is the one supplying the reapers with their objectives.  

...That's what I said, he's controlling them, but he isn't one.

Even it that was the case,it matter not...He still came up with the reapers plans and tactic,being their controler.

[Kaelef]

Leafs43 wrote...

Candoo wrote...

Kaelef wrote...

For reasons unknown, you believe you've "checkmated" me somehow.

Kaelef, I have read this whole thread, and it seems his ego to be right is getting the better of him, to the point where he is trying to twist what you say, to make it seem that you agree with him.

I twist nothing.

Kaelef made some logical assumptions, I provided some counter points, which leads to other logical points which actually end up woorking against him.

Right.  Which points worked against me, again?  When you said you "checkmated" me just a bit ago, I pointed out how you completely misinterpreted what I wrote (after you seemed to understand it correctly initially).

[Swimming Ferret]

KevShep wrote...

Swimming Ferret wrote...

The Catalyst is NOT a Reaper. He only controls them.

That's like saying all the geth, while they were under control of the Reaper Destroyer, were Reapers.

Thats only what the catalyst tells you. After all he does look like that kid meaning that you cant really trust him for obvious reasons.

Yeah it's a pity Casey and Mac decided to make the end 'high level no questions' so they made Shepard go full retard and accept Starbrat's stupid logic. <_<

[KevShep]

Opsrbest wrote...

KevShep wrote...

Kaelef wrote...


 ME has always been pretty obvious when characters are trying to deceive you. 

Unless Shepard is being indoctrinated! At which point the player MUST also be "indoctrinated"!

Sadly this is the absolute at the moment.

Why is that sad? Its awsome! Bioware wanted an ending that would never be forgotten and indoctrinating the player is anything short of masterpice! Also it means that the game is not over...Epilouge(means Final Chapter)!

[Leafs43]

Kaelef wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...

Candoo wrote...

Kaelef wrote...

For reasons unknown, you believe you've "checkmated" me somehow.

Kaelef, I have read this whole thread, and it seems his ego to be right is getting the better of him, to the point where he is trying to twist what you say, to make it seem that you agree with him.

I twist nothing.

Kaelef made some logical assumptions, I provided some counter points, which leads to other logical points which actually end up woorking against him.

Right.  Which points worked against me, again?  When you said you "checkmated" me just a bit ago, I pointed out how you completely misinterpreted what I wrote (after you seemed to understand it correctly initially).

Actually you are smattered all over the place and disprove your own initial conclusion.

I can't edit your posts, so you can look for yourself.

[dreman9999]

Kaelef wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Kaelef wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Kaelef wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Kaelef wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

jsadalia wrote...

The catalyst is not a reaper. We don't know what it is.

He tells you he is in charge of the reapers and controls them...That makes him part of them.

You control your car, does that make you an automobile?

But my car don't have it's own will and I don't say"You goingto destroy us" When someone says they are going to destroy my car.

And that proves what exactly?

He is assoctates himself with the reapers when he says"I know your think about destroying us".
Being in control doesn't mean your not with the group.

Ah.  True - I don't disagree with that.

I'll add on the fact that it can be seen to be hard to not only trust him but trobleing to see that hetakes the image of a child Shepard watch die. It leavesthe question to how he is able to do that. It makes it more trobling that the starchild is assocate with a group of being that have a vast history of messing with organics minds. Itleaves a question what level of this inflence the starchild has over Shepard if he can read Shepards mind.

No, sorry - I disagree with "the Catalyst is trying to manipulate you".  There's just no evidence of that, and ME has always been pretty obvious when characters are trying to deceive you. 

The best you can do is present deception as a possibility, which I'll grant you - it's no impossible that that's what's happening - but you can't prove it.  At least not until the EC is out.

1. It was obvious that Dr. Kenson. The warden in ME2. the AsariI merc and the bartarian bar tender were trying to deceive you?
2.Added, you don't note how he doesn't explain anything and has no proof of his claims.
3. Any you yet to ask why he looks like the child that died on earth.

[dreman9999]

Swimming Ferret wrote...

KevShep wrote...

Swimming Ferret wrote...

The Catalyst is NOT a Reaper. He only controls them.

That's like saying all the geth, while they were under control of the Reaper Destroyer, were Reapers.

Thats only what the catalyst tells you. After all he does look like that kid meaning that you cant really trust him for obvious reasons.

Yeah it's a pity Casey and Mac decided to make the end 'high level no questions' so they made Shepard go full retard and accept Starbrat's stupid logic. <_<

THis is like someone not understand why people thinkthe ending of inception maybe a dreams when they fell asleep during the first part of the movie. It's a test to see what you would beliveeven when everything you learn told you otherwise of what the starchild says. And everycounter point of his point was shown in the entire series.

Modifié par dreman9999, 25 mai 2012 - 04:05 .

[Kaelef]

Leafs43 wrote...

Ya, he is just Hitler to the SS.....way different.

While I don't agree with the "solution" the Catalyst seems to have created, I do believe it's possible that it does not see the destruction it has wrought as morally reprehensible.  If it truly is far evolved from life as we know it, it may see the galactic cleansing it initiated as no worse than we see cleaning a sink with a disinfectant.  We certainly don't mourn the lives of the billions of single-celled life forms we kill every day.

It would've made a far more interesting ending for Shepard to have made the Catalyst see what it was doing as wrong.

[Kaelef]

dreman9999 wrote...

1. It was obvious that Dr. Kenson. The warden in ME2. the AsariI merc and the bartarian bar tender were trying to deceive you?
2.Added, you don't note how he doesn't explain anything and has no proof of his claims.
3. Any you yet to ask why he looks like the child that died on earth.

1. Absolutely.
2. That's a problem with the writing.  It doesn't make him manipulative.
3. I don't ask that.  You ask that.

Modifié par Kaelef, 25 mai 2012 - 04:07 .

[Leafs43]

Swimming Ferret wrote...

KevShep wrote...

Swimming Ferret wrote...

The Catalyst is NOT a Reaper. He only controls them.

That's like saying all the geth, while they were under control of the Reaper Destroyer, were Reapers.

Thats only what the catalyst tells you. After all he does look like that kid meaning that you cant really trust him for obvious reasons.

Yeah it's a pity Casey and Mac decided to make the end 'high level no questions' so they made Shepard go full retard and accept Starbrat's stupid logic. <_<

I initially agreed with that assumption.

But reading through interviews I believe it was Casey that said that the story is structured in a completely different way from previous games.


While this might be circumstancial evidence, it leaves open a lot of speculation.

[Kaelef]

Leafs43 wrote...

Kaelef wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...

Candoo wrote...

Kaelef wrote...

For reasons unknown, you believe you've "checkmated" me somehow.

Kaelef, I have read this whole thread, and it seems his ego to be right is getting the better of him, to the point where he is trying to twist what you say, to make it seem that you agree with him.

I twist nothing.

Kaelef made some logical assumptions, I provided some counter points, which leads to other logical points which actually end up woorking against him.

Right.  Which points worked against me, again?  When you said you "checkmated" me just a bit ago, I pointed out how you completely misinterpreted what I wrote (after you seemed to understand it correctly initially).

Actually you are smattered all over the place and disprove your own initial conclusion.

I can't edit your posts, so you can look for yourself.

You don't have to edit my posts - you just have to quote me like you've been doing all along.  Quote where I've "disproved my own initial conclusion".  It should be pretty easy to do, no?

[dreman9999]

Kaelef wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...

Ya, he is just Hitler to the SS.....way different.

While I don't agree with the "solution" the Catalyst seems to have created, I do believe it's possible that it does not see the destruction it has wrought as morally reprehensible.  If it truly is far evolved from life as we know it, it may see the galactic cleansing it initiated as no worse than we see cleaning a sink with a disinfectant.  We certainly don't mourn the lives of the billions of single-celled life forms we kill every day.

It would've made a far more interesting ending for Shepard to have made the Catalyst see what it was doing as wrong.

But your missing the point here with the reapers...They are not here to debate but impose there belief. The don't even fully explainthemselve when they are trying to explain themselves. They don't care what we think every tactic they use on organics shows this. How they treat us shows this. Their is no way that understand can be put across to them, they think we are insignificant.

[Candoo]

Leafs43 wrote...

Actually you are smattered all over the place and disprove your own initial conclusion.

See, there you go again. Is your ego really that big?

[Leafs43]

Kaelef wrote... You don't have to edit my posts - you just have to quote me like you've been doing all along.  Quote where I've "disproved my own initial conclusion".  It should be pretty easy to do, no? 

 You admitted the catalyst is its own "thing" and not of Shepards doing 


Yet:

Kaelef wrote...

I always assumed the Catalyst's look was simply Shepard's interpretation - an image his brain chose, not one the Catalyst chose. 

You see?  There's more than one way to look at it.

I;m capable of keeping track of conversations.  

Modifié par Leafs43, 25 mai 2012 - 04:12 .

[Kaelef]

dreman9999 wrote...

Kaelef wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...

Ya, he is just Hitler to the SS.....way different.

While I don't agree with the "solution" the Catalyst seems to have created, I do believe it's possible that it does not see the destruction it has wrought as morally reprehensible.  If it truly is far evolved from life as we know it, it may see the galactic cleansing it initiated as no worse than we see cleaning a sink with a disinfectant.  We certainly don't mourn the lives of the billions of single-celled life forms we kill every day.

It would've made a far more interesting ending for Shepard to have made the Catalyst see what it was doing as wrong.

But your missing the point here with the reapers...They are not here to debate but impose there belief. The don't even fully explainthemselve when they are trying to explain themselves. They don't care what we think every tactic they use on organics shows this. How they treat us shows this. Their is no way that understand can be put across to them, they think we are insignificant.

Yes, and so it would've been quite a feat for Shepard to get them to change their perception.  There were certainly plenty of Reaper claims that Shepard could've attacked as logically false.

[Kaelef]

Leafs43 wrote...

Kaelef wrote... You don't have to edit my posts - you just have to quote me like you've been doing all along.  Quote where I've "disproved my own initial conclusion".  It should be pretty easy to do, no? 

 You admitted the catalyst is its own "thing" and not of Shepards doing 


Yet:

Kaelef wrote...

I always assumed the Catalyst's look was simply Shepard's interpretation - an image his brain chose, not one the Catalyst chose. 

You see?  There's more than one way to look at it.

I;m capable of keeping track of conversations.  

And yet you're incapable of reading.

Read that second sentence of mine that you quoted.

Read it carefully.

Let it soak in.

Modifié par Kaelef, 25 mai 2012 - 04:13 .

[dreman9999]

Kaelef wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

1. It was obvious that Dr. Kenson. The warden in ME2. the AsariI merc and the bartarian bar tender were trying to deceive you?
2.Added, you don't note how he doesn't explain anything and has no proof of his claims.
3. Any you yet to ask why he looks like the child that died on earth.

1. Absolutely.
2. That's a problem with the writing.  It doesn't make him manipulative.
3. I don't ask that.  You ask that.

1.Right. so you know you were walkingin to a trap in arrival and the bartender was going to posin you with out spoilers.
2.The fact that he tells you synthesis is the best salution  makes him maniputive.
3. I meant to say"And you yet to ask why 
he looks like the child that died on earth. "
That means you haven't asked it yet.

[dreman9999]

Kaelef wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Kaelef wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...

Ya, he is just Hitler to the SS.....way different.

While I don't agree with the "solution" the Catalyst seems to have created, I do believe it's possible that it does not see the destruction it has wrought as morally reprehensible.  If it truly is far evolved from life as we know it, it may see the galactic cleansing it initiated as no worse than we see cleaning a sink with a disinfectant.  We certainly don't mourn the lives of the billions of single-celled life forms we kill every day.

It would've made a far more interesting ending for Shepard to have made the Catalyst see what it was doing as wrong.

But your missing the point here with the reapers...They are not here to debate but impose there belief. The don't even fully explainthemselve when they are trying to explain themselves. They don't care what we think every tactic they use on organics shows this. How they treat us shows this. Their is no way that understand can be put across to them, they think we are insignificant.

Yes, and so it would've been quite a feat for Shepard to get them to change their perception.  There were certainly plenty of Reaper claims that Shepard could've attacked as logically false.

You miss the point that they won't change their perception. The fact that they don't explain themselve properly shows this. The don't even want to and will never do so.

[M2S SOLID JOSH]

sure i dont like IT for 1 main reason ( its something the fans themselves came up withhich is sad cause its 1000xs better tha the real ending ) but i still like the idea of habinger/reapers messing with shepards head through other means. ex- catalyst/starchild is actually a hologram signal sent by harbinger to get shepard to destroy the cruciable and kill him/herself

[Kaelef]

dreman9999 wrote...

Kaelef wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

1. It was obvious that Dr. Kenson. The warden in ME2. the AsariI merc and the bartarian bar tender were trying to deceive you?
2.Added, you don't note how he doesn't explain anything and has no proof of his claims.
3. Any you yet to ask why he looks like the child that died on earth.

1. Absolutely.
2. That's a problem with the writing.  It doesn't make him manipulative.
3. I don't ask that.  You ask that.

1.Right. so you know you were walkingin to a trap in arrival and the bartender was going to posin you with out spoilers.
2.The fact that he tells you synthesis is the best salution  makes him maniputive.
3. I meant to say"And you yet to ask why 
he looks like the child that died on earth. "
That means you haven't asked it yet.

1. Yes, I thought Arrival was painfully obvious, which is why I hated that DLC (and have written as much previously in this forum).  As for the bartender: of course something "unexpected" was going to happen.  Every time you're allowed to drink in the game it's a set-up for a plot moment or for a silly "getting drunk" moment.  It's not hidden or covert at all.
2.  We don't know that he lies to you at any point.
3.  I have said repeatedly that I think he may look like the child on Earth because Shepard is making that association, not because the Catalyst is imposing it.  Although, even if the Catalyst is imposing it, that doesn't make him "manipulative" in a negative sense.  Having the Big and Powerful Super Evolved Being make itself look like something comforting and harmless is an old sci-fi cliche.