140 réponses à ce sujet

[Kyda]

Kulyok wrote...

Yep.

Also, there's another problem here: voiceover. In games like BG2(Kelsey mod, for one), you could indeed make a kid optional - it would require only, say, two extra conversation out of 37 already here(plus flirts). Not really a big difference.

Now everything is voiced, which means that in games like ME3 and DA2, resources are limited, and we only get six or seven conversations with our love interests per GAME. Add a kid into equation, it would mean that "no kids, thank you" people would get like four or five conversations, and people who would want a kid would get the full eight, plus a more "full" and "realized" ending. This essentially means that people would be sort of forced to choose a "kid" ending, either out of curiosity, or out of desire to spend more "game time" with their beloved ones.

Imagine if you could get three extra scenes with Garrus or Anders, and the sacrifice would be a Shepard/Hawke kid(god, a Shepard/Hawke kid, now I can't unsee it)? Would you go for it? I would, although I totally wouldn't want to. That's what I mean by "forced", and that's what unfortunately would happen.

Great news! Nice to see you here. I am a fan of Xan  Let me know if you are working on more mods specially DA:O ones. 

Yeah, I figured with games like ME3 and DA2 making this would be a problem. The beauty of the old games (and something that still gets me to play them) is the fact that you could interact so much more with your companions that you actually knew them pretty well. Of course there are other things no so good (not all was better then ) That´s why I mentioned the epilogue thing. But I guess it is hard to do in a dialog since you need the voice recorded and stuff and that would mean not getting that line. Of course it could be replace for the people who don´t want it with a different sentence like for instance if you want a kid your dialog would go: [Insert name of LI] I think I am pregnant. Response: Oh the joy! (LOL). Then if you don`t want that: [Insert name of LI] I think we should get some pancakes!!. Response: I thought you would never ask 

[ShawDawg94]

If you could have a kid, I would prefer it to be heavily involved with the story, and have more personality then the little boy in mass effect 3.

[Jerrybnsn]

Or, you and your love interest could always just have a sandwich.

[Kyda]

^ You mean pancakes are not good enough?

[Orian Tabris]

I really like this idea of the PC having a child, and I think it'd really give people more options in roleplaying. However, has anyone considered that the child should just be limited to getting a mention in the epilogue (assuming BioWare does the epilogue correctly this time)? Instead of the player having to take care of the child (though, with the ability to keep them alive for the whole game, I'd likely find it to be rather fun and interesting, but anyway), the character/s take care of him/her, beyond the control of the player, after the events that transpire.

I don't think the non-PC parent even needs to be a companion, they could just be two notable, NPCs, who the player can choose to procreate based on their gender.

[Emzamination]

Melca36 wrote...

Theres a game for that...its called The Sims.

The sims is just what the name suggest, a life simulation and not an rpg.There is nothing wrong with people who want children,blood lines or heirs to their respective titles having them.If you do not wish children then tell your interest you're sterile and let that be the end of it but don't knock someone for wanting their game reality to differ from your own.

[Jerrybnsn]

nightscrawl wrote...

Jerrybnsn wrote...

I'm for it. It's not like the OP was saying that having a family should be playable, just that it should be represented that people have families. If your protagonist is only 18 or 19 like the original Warden, then no. But what about your own Warden or Hawk who should be about thirty now? What about Morrigan? No kid for her? Or Alistair and Anora? Shouldn't they be working on heirs? Or if your Warden married Anora? Or married Alistair? Or the warden was his mistress?

Do people not have kids in the Dragon Age world?

Uh, yeah he was actually talking about the PC having children or a family.

... I think playing an aggressive, hardcore personality who then turns into a big softie when holding a baby in their arms, or a paragon-type player vowing to fight injustice to make the world safer and better for their new child would be something worth watching or seeing.

I don't think anyone is arguing about other people having children/families. Your own PC having it is another matter. I just don't want them to do the tired trope of starting the story with: husband/wife dead, one kid dead and husband/wife dealing the the loss and other children, grief over dead child breaks up husband/wife, entire family is dead and hero wants revenge. I hate movies/TV like that and will only watch if it's an actor/ess I REALLY like.

Oh, I see he was asking for a playable option of having children during the game play

I'd rather not have that option as well based on the idea that you'll (your protagonist) have something more important to do, like saving the world.  That's assuming the next game will have a more epic plot instead of an ambigous one like making a name for yourself as DAII had.

However, I'm all for other characters that we played like the Warden or Hawke to have children considering how much time has passed and the circumstances of their love interest.  Morrigan having a child is a given, but what about your Warden and Queen Anora, or Alistair and Anora or the Warden Queen, and even the Warden mistress?  Hawke and Merrill?  A baby pirate?  An angry half-elven tot?  This would go a long way towards giving you a sense of your decision carrying over into the future games instead of a one or two sentence commenting on your last game.

[Karlone123]

Like with romances, having kids would probably be optional...or unplanned

[AkiKishi]

Jerrybnsn wrote...
However, I'm all for other characters that we played like the Warden or Hawke to have children considering how much time has passed and the circumstances of their love interest.  Morrigan having a child is a given, but what about your Warden and Queen Anora, or Alistair and Anora or the Warden Queen, and even the Warden mistress?  Hawke and Merrill?  A baby pirate?  An angry half-elven tot?  This would go a long way towards giving you a sense of your decision carrying over into the future games instead of a one or two sentence commenting on your last game.

That would be a very good way of connecting things. But people will complain that you are forcing them into relationships, not being fair, etc.

The games I've played where this has been a theme though I've really enjoyed.Tinkering with different father/mother skill sets and what skills to pass on is almost a game in itself in Agarest.

[Jerrybnsn]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Jerrybnsn wrote...
 This would go a long way towards giving you a sense of your decision carrying over into the future games instead of a one or two sentence commenting on your last game.

That would be a very good way of connecting things. But people will complain that you are forcing them into relationships, not being fair, etc. 

I understand people wouldn't want to be forced into a relationship, but where in Origins or DAII did anyone find themselves forced into a relationship.  In Origins especailly you had to practically play the relationship game the right way in order to have one.  DAII was much easier and faster to develope one as long as you were picking the  icon.

Now as far as being forced to have children,  who is to say that your love interest isn't the one that wanted the child very much and you went along with it or you got careless.  That's life. So in the game interaction with your LI and child(ren) you could be adoring, funny, indifferent or very indignant with them when it comes to family that could ilicit responses....for instance....

LI response after an adoring interaction  "Our son/daughter/children couldn't have a asked for a better father/mother."

LI response after a funny interaction  "If you continue teasing that child (those children)  he/she/ they're going to grow up without any sense."

LI response after an indifferent interaction  "I know you love our son/daughter/children, but if you could just show a little more interest in them it would go along way to know that they are loved by you."

LI response after a indignant interaction  "Honestly!  I swear a genlock could be a better father/mother than you."

I can't write for beans, but you get the gist of it.

[Kulyok]

Now as far as being forced to have children, who is to say that your love interest isn't the one that wanted the child very much and you went along with it or you got careless.

Absolutely! "Oh, Anders, honey, I left our twins in the chantry. Yes, the one you just blew up. Um, sorry, darling. Got careless!"
"Hmm? No, Merill, I left our darling daughter you wanted SO VERY MUCH with your clan. Yes, with Keeper Marethari, she so wanted to spend time with her. What do you mean, we massacred them all?"
"Isabella, you're pregnant? How come? Oh, you stopped taking the magic pills, I see. And so conveniently forgot to tell me. Well, congratulations! I am sure raising *your* child among the Qunari would be a rewarding experience. Good luck with her, Arishok."
"Fenris, dear, YOU wanted that kid. I didn't, so I gave him up for adoption. Yes, Danarius was very eager. Said something about lyrium tattoos, too. What?"

[Orian Tabris]

Dr. wonderful wrote...

The only time havng a kid was done right in any RPG was Dragon Quest V.

Hey, Fallout 2 did this very well, granted you didn't actually get to play parent, since he is only mentioned in the epilogue. And in Fallout: New Vegas, he even gets a few mentions (though he's 40 by the time New vegas is set).

[Jerrybnsn]

Kulyok wrote...

Now as far as being forced to have children, who is to say that your love interest isn't the one that wanted the child very much and you went along with it or you got careless.

Absolutely! "Oh, Anders, honey, I left our twins in the chantry. Yes, the one you just blew up. Um, sorry, darling. Got careless!"
"Hmm? No, Merill, I left our darling daughter you wanted SO VERY MUCH with your clan. Yes, with Keeper Marethari, she so wanted to spend time with her. What do you mean, we massacred them all?"
"Isabella, you're pregnant? How come? Oh, you stopped taking the magic pills, I see. And so conveniently forgot to tell me. Well, congratulations! I am sure raising *your* child among the Qunari would be a rewarding experience. Good luck with her, Arishok."
"Fenris, dear, YOU wanted that kid. I didn't, so I gave him up for adoption. Yes, Danarius was very eager. Said something about lyrium tattoos, too. What?"

I think if you want to abandon your love interest and the child(ren) because of it, that should be playable and then you have consequences for doing so.  Many fathers and mothers today realise that they don't want to be parents and leave their children and spouse.

And many may not have picked up on DAII, but Isabella's biological clock was ticking.

Modifié par Jerrybnsn, 01 juin 2012 - 11:05 .

[Orian Tabris]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

Kulyok wrote...

Now as far as being forced to have children, who is to say that your love interest isn't the one that wanted the child very much and you went along with it or you got careless.

Absolutely! "Oh, Anders, honey, I left our twins in the chantry. Yes, the one you just blew up. Um, sorry, darling. Got careless!"
"Hmm? No, Merill, I left our darling daughter you wanted SO VERY MUCH with your clan. Yes, with Keeper Marethari, she so wanted to spend time with her. What do you mean, we massacred them all?"
"Isabella, you're pregnant? How come? Oh, you stopped taking the magic pills, I see. And so conveniently forgot to tell me. Well, congratulations! I am sure raising *your* child among the Qunari would be a rewarding experience. Good luck with her, Arishok."
"Fenris, dear, YOU wanted that kid. I didn't, so I gave him up for adoption. Yes, Danarius was very eager. Said something about lyrium tattoos, too. What?"

I think if you want to abandon your love interest and the child(ren) because of it, that should be playable and then you have consequences for doing so.  Many fathers and mothers today realise that they don't want to be parents and leave their children and spouse.

And many may not have picked up on DAII, but Isabella's biological clock was ticking.

I picked up on this. You can kind of tell, since she has crow's feet, though I think it's only in Act 3 that you can see it. She's rather like the Leliana of DA2, in that respect. She is older than the PC (the Warden, 20, Hawke, 23 - 33), just like how Leliana met the City Elf's mother, Adaia when she was 18, and Adaia mentioned her intent to  instruct her kid to be more like Leli - which suggests that Leliana must be like 5, 6 years older than the Warden.

But I digress, this is kinda off-topic.

[Kulyok]

I think if you want to abandon your love interest and the child(ren) because of it, that should be playable and then you have consequences for doing so. Many fathers and mothers today realise that they don't want to be parents and leave their children and spouse.

Right. And maybe next we're going to roleplay The Wire,and maybe some of the choice bits from Pink's "Family Portrait" - abandoned kids, ruined lives, cheating spouses, day-t-day alcoholism, divorces and so forth, but I'm not sure I want that. While this sort of thing might have its audience(I certainly love Dominic West), I'd still argue that the main purpose of video games for a broad audience is having fun, which includes happy endings, pleasant romances with a promise of a happy ending, and, frankly, an escape into a fantasy reality.

Yes, DA is darker than family-friendly Star Wars and Forgotten Realms, and it draws inspiration from works like "The Game of Thrones", not the lighter bits of "Harry Potter", but even in Martin's gritty reality "bad" things are childlike, or, rather, teenager-like. Betrayals, rivers of blood, naked women, forbidden loves, power struggles, dragons, war. Not taking out trash or finding out your girlfriend's pregnant and you can't afford the mortage.

Leaving the player in the "real life" mud (with an unwanted child/family problems/cheating spouse/etc) is not the way. Really, we got one very real-life-like cheating bastard on ME3 - Jacob. The fan reaction was universally negative. And don't let me started on a forced pregnancy and a forced baby name in Baldur's Gate - anyone up for their firsborn being named Quayle? So... yeah.

Modifié par Kulyok, 01 juin 2012 - 11:53 .

[R0vena]

Jerrybnsn wrote...
Now as far as being forced to have children,  who is to say that your love interest isn't the one that wanted the child very much and you went along with it or you got careless.  That's life. 

Yes. And then - if we follow the "real life" routine - it would be:

Varric: after that little thing with Fenris Hawke got pregnant and had a baby. Had to sit at home and take care of it, of course, so... didn't have time to interfere with all that politics and invasions. Actually, she decided to move from Kirkwall permanently since it was not a healthy place for a child.
Endgame.

And nothing good ever came out of idea to force player into anything. Everytime it happens a lot of players feel cheated out of choice (not to able to kill a certain Chantry Sister, for example). Even in little things. A child is a huge change in life and players should be able to make decisions to have it for their protagonist or not.

[cindercatz]

It should be a choice, but it should also be a very significant choice, so that if you do have a child (during game, rather than epilogue), the child, as he or she or they grow(s), should be a major NPC, moreso than Hawke's mother for instance, or a potential party member later on that you can choose to recruit by raising the kid or not (not that you'd play the "raising" part, but a guiding hand through certain story moments would be great). Otherwise, it should be a choice determined by in game dialogue that changes the epilogue and any future appearances in other Dragon Age games. Having a kid does not, repeat does not, mean that your character would retire from life after you finish the playable part of their story (the current game). Protagonists don't repeat in DA, after all. I don't see any reason why not.

R0vena wrote...

Varric: after that little thing with Fenris Hawke got pregnant and had a baby. Had to sit at home and take care of it, of course, so... didn't have time to interfere with all that politics and invasions. Actually, she decided to move from Kirkwall permanently since it was not a healthy place for a child.
Endgame.

.. Again, why not allow the player to choose their path and whether or not, if they did get pregnant, they'd continue to get involved in things like that. My Hawke (only one I've finished so far..) just disappeared with Merrill at the end. It'd have been a lot more satisfying if I knew they took off to start a family somewhere else, rather than just took off out of.. what? Wanderlust? And that's it? Got tired of the hassle of everybody running to them every three years to solve their problems or something. lol

[R0vena]

cindercatz,

I have no problem with the idea that the players who want children will get them. Not at all. I have problem that the players who don't will be forced into it. Either because the kid will "just happen" no matter what or the because he will be an important part of the storyline and the players who didn't choose that path (or have s/s relationship) will be left out of important content.
The problem is it is much easier to imagine that after the Warden/Hawke disappeared into the sunset she/he and his/her love interest settled down and started a family somewhere. It is much harder to imagine that they did not if the kid is already a given. What if I roleplay a hero who doesn't want to settle down and want to continue adventuring? It is just as my right as the right of the others to want family for the hero, I think.
Thus, my opinion on having kids in the game is: not at all or up to player and definitely not tied to any special content expect couple of lines here and there. For example, Hawke and Merrill could have a small dialog in which Merrill asks if he wants kids in the future and depending on his answer the epilogue could say they started family or just continued adventuring.

[Chiramu]

With the aspect of marriage and having kids available in the Fable games, it makes the whole thing a big chore :<. You have to interact with them to keep them happy constantly, so you can't actually go around exploring dungeons or doing the quests, you have to spend time with your family >.>...

One big ass chore. Games are suppose to be fun :<.

[sylvanaerie]

Considering what happens to the rest of Hawke's family, not just no but HELL NO. The warden is already mostly 'safe' with decreased fertility and if you romance Alistair it's a non consideration anyway as 2 grey wardens can't make babies together. Add in some of the romances may be same gender, natural childbirth ain't happening, not without a third party of the opposite sex anyway.

Then the whole issue of 'who watches the kids while mom and dad go gallivanting off adventuring'? Maybe a realistic consideration but not very heroic that mom or dad ends up always at home changing diapers, wiping noses and reading bedtime stories. Although can you imagine if Varric was the bed time storyteller? Instead of "once upon a time" all the bedtime stories would begin with "I sh*t you not..." and the kid grows up with a seriously askew view of mom/dad Hawke.

You want kids in a game? I recommend Sims which is a fun game too. Though they have their weird moments. Once in Sims 3 I was at a neighbor's house visiting and she went into labor. After I took her to the hospital to have the kid, she came home with the little thing all bundled up and set him down on the floor by the door. After that, the nickname "Little Baby Doorstop" stuck in my head every time I saw a pregnant sim in the game.

However, considering DA2 takes place over the course of 7 years (10 if you add the three years post act 3 to when Cassandra nabs Varric), some conversation regarding procreational possibilities would have been nice.  Isabela gets something along the lines of it with her Act 3 gift, leaving the player with the impression she may or may not be fertile to begin with.  Merrill is so small I'm terrified any Hawke baby coming out of her will rip her asunder.  Fenris and Anders both have self control/anger issues that makes placing them in charge of any child an iffy prospect at best (to downright child endangerment at its worst).

Aveline seems to be the only character in both games with a stable enough home life to handle raising a child (and even then her job is hazardous enough without adding in all the adventuring she does with Hawke).

Modifié par sylvanaerie, 02 juin 2012 - 01:06 .

[R0vena]

sylvanaerie wrote...
Add in some of the romances may be same gender, natural childbirth ain't happening, not without a third party of the opposite sex anyway.

Also, some heroes never have any romantic relationship at all since not all players care for romances.

[cindercatz]

The thing is... IF, stressing if, again if, the story takes place over an extended period of time in any future game, I would like the option to have and (off camera, mostly, like any other NPC or party member) raise my character's offspring, or at least have the option to have a pregnant PC or love interest toward the end of the game (putting the child in danger by adventuring? sure, but whoever the PC and their party are, they're not likely to be replaceable, or at least the game should treat them as too important to quit mid-game. They're not out gallavanting for fun, after all.) The reason for this is precisely that I do want to see highly emotional, highly significant story moments and I do want another primary relationship in the game, from that perspective. Fable 2 is irrelevent, because it's an entirely different genre, nevermind that it's not centered around quality storytelling and top notch, highly developed characters and their relationships. The Sims, even further removed, is obviously irrelevent. (I used to mod for The Sims, btw, the original, just a bit.)

I'm not enamored of the simple idea that I can imagine my character having a kid, all in my head, or of some sort of child rearing minigame. I'm specifically supporting a strong story around any potential kid, with strong scenes tied to them, and a fully developed NPC relationship akin to any party member. No tedium. Just more story and a different potential perspective. The choice should be there, just like it's there for romances in the first place, but just like choosing not to partake in a romance, or choosing one over another or more means you remove those parts of the game in your playthrough, the option to have or not have a kid should do the same thing. If you feel you're missing out, start another character and play what you missed the next time through, or forgo it if you like, up to you. That's the point. It adds more variety, more replayability, and more potential branching storylines to future imports. That's the point. Same reason I support multiple playable origins, races, LIs, and other branching story paths. It's just more better longer stronger.

[sylvanaerie]

But just HOW big do you want the game to be. Including a CHILD NPC who is the protagonist's child opens up entire parts of the game a lot of players won't ever see. Some players don't like romance storylines, some only prefer same sex partners, some may not like the idea of taking time to do child rearing duties (child rearing is tedious, especially compared to adventuring). Which means, only those players who want their PC having children will care about pursuing this line of adventuring. And how many times does "Rescue their kid from the crazy blood mage about to sacrifice him" get played out before it becomes tedious? Let's face it. All 'family' story lines Bioware has created up to this point end poorly with dead or lost family members. Any other storyline would be boring to most players (and unfeasible to the developers from a financial standpoint--between voice actors, bits of game devoted to that storyline only a select few will ever see etc). Not too keen on "Child endangerment" storylines unless one gets a chance to save the kid.  Bedtime stories and getting your toddler to eat his veggies, not so exciting/strong a storyline, which leaves 'child endangerment' as the only avenue left to make this prospect interesting.

It's a dead end prospect, and one I'd rather do without. Maybe some conversation about the possibility of pregnancy with a heterosexual relationship could be addressed, but that's about the limit of what I'd want.

Thanks, but no thanks.

Modifié par sylvanaerie, 02 juin 2012 - 02:41 .